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Two States of God …

dattaswami
Posts: 322
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8/8/2012 12:08:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
There are two states of God.
The first state is the absolute God, who is beyond this creation (Nirguna).
The second state is the relative God, who is in this world.

The same absolute God enters this world in human form to preach the divine knowledge to humanity. The same unimaginable God enters a specific energetic form called Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva etc., in the upper worlds to preach the divine knowledge to the souls existing in energetic bodies. The materialized human body on this earth or the energetic body in the upper world acts as the medium with which God identifies Himself. The electricity existing in metallic wire identifies itself with it so that we call the electrified wire itself as the current. The current can be experienced through the shock anywhere by touching the metallic wire. Due to such identification by non isolation of current from wire, we do not differentiate the electrified wire from the electricity.

The relative God in the second state is characterized by chit and ananda. Actually, the awareness and bliss are the characteristics of medium only. In the human incarnation, God charges a human being. The human being is characterized by the awareness and bliss. Since God is identified with medium, He is also identified with the characteristics of medium. Actually, the awareness is not mentioned in the Veda. In the Veda, there are two statements.
•God is true and infinite knowledge (Satyam jnanam anantam Brahma)
•the extraordinary excellent knowledge is God (Prajnanam Brahma)
In fact, these two statements give the identity marks for God in human form. Awareness is the causal material of knowledge and also the excellent knowledge. The knowledge is like ordinary design and extraordinary knowledge is like the special design of a golden jewel. For both designs, gold is the causal material. We can call any golden jewel as gold. We hear the statement "how much gold is given to the bride?" Here gold means the golden jewel. Therefore, the ordinary and special knowledge can be indicated by the awareness, which is the causal material. In fact, the word ‘knowledge' is never used to mean the basic awareness, which is present in all the living beings.

The word knowledge in usage (Rudha) is specified only in the intellectual awareness present in the human beings. According to the Veda, the characteristic is neither basic awareness (chit) nor the knowledge of human beings (jnanam). It is the extraordinary knowledge (prajnanam) that characterizes the human incarnation. Since it is not mere awareness, you cannot say that God is present in all the living beings. Since it is not the ordinary knowledge, you cannot say that God is present in all the human beings. It is only the extraordinary knowledge like the Gita and hence, God is present in a specific human being like Krishna.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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8/8/2012 3:25:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
One of the states must be Ohio, because I've heard that Toledo is Holy, what is the other state?
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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7/15/2013 1:11:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2012 2:59:20 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
Do you have evidence to support any of these claims?

The Claims are made in the Veda's, which are a complete compiled philosophical text....
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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7/18/2013 12:18:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It is not the need. God was alone before the creation and so He is beyond the creaion. It is called absolute state. But, after the creation is made, He enters it and is now known as relative God.

The same absolute God enters this world in human form to preach the divine knowledge to humanity. The same unimaginable God enters a specific energetic form called Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva etc., in the upper worlds to preach the divine knowledge to the souls existing in energetic bodies. The materialized human body on this earth or the energetic body in the upper world acts as the medium with which God identifies Himself.

At 7/17/2013 10:17:59 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Why does God need to have two states ?
Isn't one enough ?
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/18/2013 5:53:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 12:18:19 PM, dattaswami wrote:
It is not the need. God was alone before the creation and so He is beyond the creaion. It is called absolute state. But, after the creation is made, He enters it and is now known as relative God.

The same absolute God enters this world in human form to preach the divine knowledge to humanity. The same unimaginable God enters a specific energetic form called Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva etc., in the upper worlds to preach the divine knowledge to the souls existing in energetic bodies. The materialized human body on this earth or the energetic body in the upper world acts as the medium with which God identifies Himself.

At 7/17/2013 10:17:59 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Why does God need to have two states ?
Isn't one enough ?

This sounds very much like God sending prophets doesn't it? using men to preach and teach people how to worship him, there are even verses in Isaiah and in Quran where God says He did things that were actually done by men under his commands and will.
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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7/18/2013 9:27:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Actually, God Himself comes down in human form to preach and guide the humanity. The divine knowledge is with God alone and is not transferable. Nobody other than God cannot preach the concept in such a lucid manner.

Prophet and Incarnation "

When a person says that He was sent by God as a messenger and that He has brought the message of the Lord, again the same problem appears. When God is giving the message to that person, nobody has seen it. That person is the single witness. Now the only alternative left in order to believe that the Lord Himself gave the knowledge, is that we have to test the knowledge.

Had we seen the transfer of the knowledge from God to that person with our eyes, we need not have tested that knowledge. It must definitely have been divine knowledge. If we have to believe a statement of that person without the simultaneous universal perception, then we have to believe even a fraud person who utters the same statement.

If you give us a piece of metal and say that is gold, since God gave it, we cannot believe it. Either we must have seen God giving it to you or we must analyze the metal. Moreover the knowledge is not like the piece of metal, which will not change by transfer. When a teacher explains a concept to somebody and asks him to deliver it to his students, it cannot be transferred as it is.

The transfer of knowledge consists of not only the concept but also the explanation. The concept might have been transferred but nobody other than that original teacher can give the same way of explanation of the concept by which the concept pierces into the heart. Therefore to propagate the divine knowledge, the Lord Himself comes down in a human form. Arjuna said the same in the Gita "Tvadanyah"" which means that except the Lord, nobody can preach the divine knowledge and clarify all spiritual doubts.

At 7/18/2013 5:53:09 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
This sounds very much like God sending prophets doesn't it? using men to preach and teach people how to worship him, there are even verses in Isaiah and in Quran where God says He did things that were actually done by men under his commands and will.
Bannanawamajama
Posts: 125
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7/18/2013 9:46:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
God does send "Prophets" in a way. The second god of our Trinity, Vishnu, manifests himself in a mortal body 10 times over the course of the life of the universe. These are very similar to Jesus, as they are simultaneously a living human but also one with Vishnu as a god, as they have divine spirit in them. Each time he comes he does so to right some cosmic imbalance that threatens to cause harm to the world.

First he came as an aquatic whale or fish being to save the first man from a great flood(Like Noah's Ark).
The second was a turtle that braced the world on his back to hold back earthquakes when the gods were churning the oceans.
The third was a mighty boar who defended the earth goddess from a powerful demon
The fourth was a Chimera who slew a tyrant who had been blessed with near invulnerability
The fifth was a dwarf who tricked a conquerer into releasing his dominion over the heavens and hells
The sixth was a priest-turned-warrior who travelled the world killing the wicked and cruel
The seventh was a noble king who epitomized ideal human nature and honor(Basically like Jesus with less magic power)
The eighth was a schemer who guided the rightful heirs to the throne of a powerful kingdom to victory over a rival clan using his cunning and wit(Basically like Jesus with more magic power but less ethics)
The ninth was Buddah, at least in my sect, who came to challenge the power of abusive priests by lessening their influence
The tenth will be Kalki, who will herald the end of this world and the beginning of the next
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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7/18/2013 11:28:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If the Lord comes in only one human generation, God becomes partial to that human generation because other human generations are not blessed with such opportunity. To see, to touch, to talk and to live with the human incarnation, He comes down as per the prayers of the devotees. The Lord comes to preach and so He will not enter the statues or animals or birds. Veda says "Na tasya pratima asti"" which means that God will not enter the inert statues. Gita says "Manusheem tanu masritam" which means that God enters the human body only because the main purpose is to preach the human beings.

If necessary the Lord can come whenever there is necessity as said in Gita (Yedaa yedaahi).

The forms of fish, tortoise etc., were only temporarily to kill the demons and nobody worshipped such forms during their time. But Rama, Krishna etc were the human forms worshipped by several devotees like Hanuman and Gopikas. The Lord will come in every human generation; otherwise, He becomes partial to a particular generation.

Lord always comes to this world in human form as said in Gita (Manusheem Tanu Masritam). Please remember that Gita did not tell that the Lord would come in any other form.

At 7/18/2013 9:46:00 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
God does send "Prophets" in a way. The second god of our Trinity, Vishnu, manifests himself in a mortal body 10 times over the course of the life of the universe. These are very similar to Jesus, as they are simultaneously a living human but also one with Vishnu as a god, as they have divine spirit in them. Each time he comes he does so to right some cosmic imbalance that threatens to cause harm to the world.
First he came as an aquatic whale or fish being to save the first man from a great flood(Like Noah's Ark).
The second was a turtle that braced the world on his back to hold back earthquakes when the gods were churning the oceans.
The third was a mighty boar who defended the earth goddess from a powerful demon
The fourth was a Chimera who slew a tyrant who had been blessed with near invulnerability
The fifth was a dwarf who tricked a conquerer into releasing his dominion over the heavens and hells
The sixth was a priest-turned-warrior who travelled the world killing the wicked and cruel
The seventh was a noble king who epitomized ideal human nature and honor(Basically like Jesus with less magic power)
The eighth was a schemer who guided the rightful heirs to the throne of a powerful kingdom to victory over a rival clan using his cunning and wit(Basically like Jesus with more magic power but less ethics)
The ninth was Buddah, at least in my sect, who came to challenge the power of abusive priests by lessening their influence
The tenth will be Kalki, who will herald the end of this world and the beginning of the next
imabench
Posts: 21,219
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7/18/2013 11:31:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2012 12:08:39 PM, dattaswami wrote:
There are two states of God.

Im going to guess Texas and Kansas...

The first state is the absolute God, who is beyond this creation (Nirguna).
The second state is the relative God, who is in this world.

f*ck I was off

The same absolute God enters this world in human form to preach the divine knowledge to humanity. The same unimaginable God enters a specific energetic form called Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva etc., in the upper worlds to preach the divine knowledge to the souls existing in energetic bodies. The materialized human body on this earth or the energetic body in the upper world acts as the medium with which God identifies Himself. The electricity existing in metallic wire identifies itself with it so that we call the electrified wire itself as the current. The current can be experienced through the shock anywhere by touching the metallic wire. Due to such identification by non isolation of current from wire, we do not differentiate the electrified wire from the electricity.

The relative God in the second state is characterized by chit and ananda. Actually, the awareness and bliss are the characteristics of medium only. In the human incarnation, God charges a human being. The human being is characterized by the awareness and bliss. Since God is identified with medium, He is also identified with the characteristics of medium. Actually, the awareness is not mentioned in the Veda. In the Veda, there are two statements.
"God is true and infinite knowledge (Satyam jnanam anantam Brahma)
"the extraordinary excellent knowledge is God (Prajnanam Brahma)
In fact, these two statements give the identity marks for God in human form. Awareness is the causal material of knowledge and also the excellent knowledge. The knowledge is like ordinary design and extraordinary knowledge is like the special design of a golden jewel. For both designs, gold is the causal material. We can call any golden jewel as gold. We hear the statement "how much gold is given to the bride?" Here gold means the golden jewel. Therefore, the ordinary and special knowledge can be indicated by the awareness, which is the causal material. In fact, the word "knowledge' is never used to mean the basic awareness, which is present in all the living beings.

The word knowledge in usage (Rudha) is specified only in the intellectual awareness present in the human beings. According to the Veda, the characteristic is neither basic awareness (chit) nor the knowledge of human beings (jnanam). It is the extraordinary knowledge (prajnanam) that characterizes the human incarnation. Since it is not mere awareness, you cannot say that God is present in all the living beings. Since it is not the ordinary knowledge, you cannot say that God is present in all the human beings. It is only the extraordinary knowledge like the Gita and hence, God is present in a specific human being like Krishna.
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AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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7/19/2013 2:34:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
There are five gods.
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Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/19/2013 6:24:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 9:27:54 PM, dattaswami wrote:
Actually, God Himself comes down in human form to preach and guide the humanity. The divine knowledge is with God alone and is not transferable. Nobody other than God cannot preach the concept in such a lucid manner.

Prophet and Incarnation "

When a person says that He was sent by God as a messenger and that He has brought the message of the Lord, again the same problem appears. When God is giving the message to that person, nobody has seen it. That person is the single witness. Now the only alternative left in order to believe that the Lord Himself gave the knowledge, is that we have to test the knowledge.

Had we seen the transfer of the knowledge from God to that person with our eyes, we need not have tested that knowledge. It must definitely have been divine knowledge. If we have to believe a statement of that person without the simultaneous universal perception, then we have to believe even a fraud person who utters the same statement.

If you give us a piece of metal and say that is gold, since God gave it, we cannot believe it. Either we must have seen God giving it to you or we must analyze the metal. Moreover the knowledge is not like the piece of metal, which will not change by transfer. When a teacher explains a concept to somebody and asks him to deliver it to his students, it cannot be transferred as it is.

The transfer of knowledge consists of not only the concept but also the explanation. The concept might have been transferred but nobody other than that original teacher can give the same way of explanation of the concept by which the concept pierces into the heart. Therefore to propagate the divine knowledge, the Lord Himself comes down in a human form. Arjuna said the same in the Gita "Tvadanyah"" which means that except the Lord, nobody can preach the divine knowledge and clarify all spiritual doubts.

Why do you say God knowledge is not transferable?! isn't God able of everything ?!

If He wills to make a specific man know a specific thing, can He not ?

Now if God does what you say and take a human form, would He eat like we eat, and be dependant of the things we depend on, that He created in the first place ? does He get aged, does He get born like ourselves, and have progeny?

please answer so that I can go further with the rest of your definitions.

Pleas tell me so I can respond to the rest of your
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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7/20/2013 5:57:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Omnipotency does not mean that He " does everything, it means only
That He can do anything but He does " that, which is justified only,
Satisfaction of devotees is justified, - He satisfies them in this way.
Who are you to say that God doesn"t " come in human form here?
If something is impossible to you, - don"t apply it to omnipotent God.

Why do you say God knowledge is not transferable?! isn't God able of everything ?!
If He wills to make a specific man know a specific thing, can He not?
Now if God does what you say and take a human form, would He eat like we eat, and be dependant of the things we depend on, that He created in the first place ? does He get aged, does He get born like ourselves, and have progeny?
please answer so that I can go further with the rest of your definitions.
Pleas tell me so I can respond to the rest of your
IslamAhmadiyya
Posts: 65
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7/21/2013 12:44:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
God doesn't have two states, God is One and is a unified being, He has only one state, as God's state and condition does not change.

God is infinite and eternal, you cannot take infinity and divide it into smaller bits. It would be illogical for God to have two states.

Your ideology that God transforms into Shiva, Vishnu etc is the concept of prophethood, where God appoints messengers in this world to convey the message of the One God to mankind.