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Evidence for God

medic0506
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8/21/2012 11:06:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I saw this argument in an article on atheist fallacies, so it's not my own original argument, but I do agree with it.

Atheists claim that there is no evidence for the existence of God, but there are a couple problems with that.

First of all, there is evidence of God's existence but atheists just dismiss it as irrelevant, or argue that it isn't really evidence at all.

Secondly, you can't know that there is no evidence unless all evidence is known, unless you are omniscient. This seems to necessitate that a reasonable person at least admit that it's possible that there is evidence for God. If it's possible that there is evidence, then what is acceptable as evidence??

I'd suggest reading the article to get the entire argument. It's a quick read and well worth the time. I'm interested in what the atheists have to say about it.

http://www.atheismsfallacies.com...
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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8/21/2012 11:26:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I have not seen any convincing evidence that suggests the existence of any supernatural being, including God and I live my life under the assumption that such beings exist only within our minds.
However, given our minds are powerful, unpredictable, mysterious things, I'm certain that many, many people believe that the same evidence that I look at and say 'meh' is a home run.

I have the points that I know are false (like YEC nonsense and claims about evangelical charlatans like Benny Hinn for example) and will still argue about and points (mostly philosophical arguments) that I just have to agree to disagree on because I simply don't care enough to go deeper into metaphysics.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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8/21/2012 11:30:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/21/2012 11:06:26 PM, medic0506 wrote:
I saw this argument in an article on atheist fallacies, so it's not my own original argument, but I do agree with it.

Atheists claim that there is no evidence for the existence of God, but there are a couple problems with that.

The quran says God exists, sure that is evidence. Some times you have to understand what some one is REALLY saying. They are saying there is not sufficient evidence.


First of all, there is evidence of God's existence but atheists just dismiss it as irrelevant, or argue that it isn't really evidence at all.

Secondly, you can't know that there is no evidence unless all evidence is known, unless you are omniscient. This seems to necessitate that a reasonable person at least admit that it's possible that there is evidence for God. If it's possible that there is evidence, then what is acceptable as evidence??

Once again what they REALLY MEAN is that out of the evidence we know of there is not sufficient evidence.

You can't prove God doesn't exist (once again with all the caveats thrown in) yeah and we can't prove that aliens from another dimension who kidnap and butt probe humans don't exist (with caveats thrown in)

Acceptable evidence ? Depends what your trying to prove, the huge problem is that you get a God who has some many cavets and rationalizations thrown in, is that its existence is indistinguishable from its non existence. And those bastard atheists come to the conclusion that this is because God doesn't exist, evil evil atheists.


I'd suggest reading the article to get the entire argument. It's a quick read and well worth the time. I'm interested in what the atheists have to say about it.

http://www.atheismsfallacies.com...

Atheists don't commit logical fallacies, only Christians do that.

-

-

-

-

It's a joke people.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/21/2012 11:36:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Once again what they REALLY MEAN is that there is evidence but we dont care.

Atheists commit logical ego's, Christians dont do that.
It's a joke people.
TheAsylum
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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8/21/2012 11:38:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/21/2012 11:32:46 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
"I simply don't care enough to go deeper "

Truth revealed

Thanks for taking what I said completely out of context.
Fvck off and die.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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ScottyDouglas
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8/21/2012 11:40:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/21/2012 11:38:01 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:32:46 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
"I simply don't care enough to go deeper "

Truth revealed

Thanks for taking what I said completely out of context.
Fvck off and die.

Did I? I dont think so...I thought it was honest. Same to you pal.
P.S. Grow some balls and say it in full
TheAsylum
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/21/2012 11:43:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/21/2012 11:06:26 PM, medic0506 wrote:
First of all, there is evidence of God's existence but atheists just dismiss it as irrelevant, or argue that it isn't really evidence at all.

Such as? The evidence (for obvious reasons) cannot be personal experience or anything subjective.

Secondly, you can't know that there is no evidence unless all evidence is known, unless you are omniscient. This seems to necessitate that a reasonable person at least admit that it's possible that there is evidence for God. If it's possible that there is evidence, then what is acceptable as evidence??

So we should accept a possibility because even though there is no current evidence, evidence may come up? Lolz.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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8/21/2012 11:46:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/21/2012 11:40:47 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:38:01 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:32:46 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
"I simply don't care enough to go deeper "

Truth revealed

Thanks for taking what I said completely out of context.
Fvck off and die.

Did I? I dont think so...I thought it was honest. Same to you pal.
P.S. Grow some balls and say it in full

Yes, you did and you know you did.

I said "I don't care enough to go deeper into metaphysics."
It's right there, second post, plain for you to see.
By cutting off the end part you're making me out to be wilfully ignorant, which simply isn't true.
I've been on DDO long enough to see the best of the best when it comes to arguments and evidence for God. Either I understand them and reject them based on my own beliefs or I don't understand them because they consist of complex metaphysical assertions that I don't care about, for example:
(1) Every contingent fact has an explanation.
(2) There is a contingent fact that includes all other contingent facts.
(3) Therefore, there is an explanation of this fact.
(4) This explanation must involve a necessary being.
(5) This necessary being is God.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/21/2012 11:49:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/21/2012 11:46:38 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:40:47 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:38:01 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:32:46 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
"I simply don't care enough to go deeper -into Metaphysics"

Truth revealed
This what you said again no difference.
TheAsylum
TheJackel
Posts: 508
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8/22/2012 12:31:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Atheists claim that there is no evidence for the existence of God, but there are a :couple problems with that.

First of all, there is evidence of God's existence but atheists just dismiss it as :irrelevant, or argue that it isn't really evidence at all.

Modern Pantheism:

The belief that existence and its rules is GOD, or identical to GOD as the same thing..

You can't get any higher of a GOD concept... And everything is evidence of this GOD while that of everything can not exist without this GOD. So your entire argument is moot, and that makes everything GOD, and as emergent properties of GOD.

What is GOD without existence?

Ask a Christian this question and then ask them what they think of the Pantheist GOD.. It seems to me that first cause is existence itself people, and everything comes from existence itself... Where else you do you think things come from?
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/22/2012 12:43:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 12:31:13 AM, TheJackel wrote:
Atheists claim that there is no evidence for the existence of God, but there are a :couple problems with that.

First of all, there is evidence of God's existence but atheists just dismiss it as :irrelevant, or argue that it isn't really evidence at all.

Modern Pantheism:

The belief that existence and its rules is GOD, or identical to GOD as the same thing..

You can't get any higher of a GOD concept... And everything is evidence of this GOD while that of everything can not exist without this GOD. So your entire argument is moot, and that makes everything GOD, and as emergent properties of GOD.

What is GOD without existence?

Ask a Christian this question and then ask them what they think of the Pantheist GOD.. It seems to me that first cause is existence itself people, and everything comes from existence itself... Where else you do you think things come from?

From exsploding rocks in space.
TheAsylum
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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8/22/2012 12:47:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/21/2012 11:49:15 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:46:38 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:40:47 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:38:01 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:32:46 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
"I simply don't care enough to go deeper -into Metaphysics"

Truth revealed
This what you said again no difference.

There is a significant difference.
Besides, what point are you trying to make if not an extremely douchey one? "Herr herr, the Atheist admits he doesn't want to look for God. I r winrar."
GTFO man... I know what you're doing and I don't appreciate it.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/22/2012 12:49:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 12:47:32 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:49:15 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:46:38 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:40:47 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:38:01 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:32:46 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
"I simply don't care enough to go deeper -into Metaphysics"

Truth revealed
This what you said again no difference.

There is a significant difference.
Besides, what point are you trying to make if not an extremely douchey one? "Herr herr, the Atheist admits he doesn't want to look for God. I r winrar."
GTFO man... I know what you're doing and I don't appreciate it.

Dido, Pal, Dido
TheAsylum
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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8/22/2012 1:03:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 12:49:38 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/22/2012 12:47:32 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:49:15 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:46:38 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:40:47 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:38:01 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:32:46 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
"I simply don't care enough to go deeper -into Metaphysics"

Truth revealed
This what you said again no difference.

There is a significant difference.
Besides, what point are you trying to make if not an extremely douchey one? "Herr herr, the Atheist admits he doesn't want to look for God. I r winrar."
GTFO man... I know what you're doing and I don't appreciate it.

Dido, Pal, Dido

Wut?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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8/22/2012 1:12:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 1:03:29 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/22/2012 12:49:38 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/22/2012 12:47:32 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:49:15 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:46:38 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:40:47 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:38:01 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:32:46 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
"I simply don't care enough to go deeper -into Metaphysics"

Truth revealed
This what you said again no difference.

There is a significant difference.
Besides, what point are you trying to make if not an extremely douchey one? "Herr herr, the Atheist admits he doesn't want to look for God. I r winrar."
GTFO man... I know what you're doing and I don't appreciate it.

Dido, Pal, Dido

Wut?

He's saying he's waving the white flag.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/22/2012 1:14:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 1:12:12 AM, Maikuru wrote:

Dido, Pal, Dido

Wut?

He's saying he's waving the white flag.



I didnt wave it, I just tossed it at him, maybe he can learn to use it.
TheAsylum
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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8/22/2012 2:19:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 1:14:16 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/22/2012 1:12:12 AM, Maikuru wrote:

Dido, Pal, Dido

Wut?

He's saying he's waving the white flag.



I didnt wave it, I just tossed it at him, maybe he can learn to use it.

Perhaps if you explained what you meant by your original comment we could better understand each other. Until then, I will continue to believe you are an intellectual bankrupt fvcktard.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/22/2012 2:23:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 2:19:17 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/22/2012 1:14:16 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/22/2012 1:12:12 AM, Maikuru wrote:

Dido, Pal, Dido

Wut?

He's saying he's waving the white flag.



I didnt wave it, I just tossed it at him, maybe he can learn to use it.

Perhaps if you explained what you meant by your original comment we could better understand each other. Until then, I will continue to believe you are an intellectual bankrupt fvcktard.

Cowardness reeks from you^
TheAsylum
TheJackel
Posts: 508
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8/22/2012 3:19:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 12:43:53 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/22/2012 12:31:13 AM, TheJackel wrote:
Atheists claim that there is no evidence for the existence of God, but there are a :couple problems with that.

First of all, there is evidence of God's existence but atheists just dismiss it as :irrelevant, or argue that it isn't really evidence at all.

Modern Pantheism:

The belief that existence and its rules is GOD, or identical to GOD as the same thing..

You can't get any higher of a GOD concept... And everything is evidence of this GOD while that of everything can not exist without this GOD. So your entire argument is moot, and that makes everything GOD, and as emergent properties of GOD.

What is GOD without existence?

Ask a Christian this question and then ask them what they think of the Pantheist GOD.. It seems to me that first cause is existence itself people, and everything comes from existence itself... Where else you do you think things come from?

From exsploding rocks in space.

Those rocks can only come from existence itself. Can't come from any "where" else. Existence is "where" to anywhere. There is no "where" outside of existence to which things can come from. Thus all things are emergent properties of existence itself. Yep, those rocks too!
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/22/2012 3:34:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 3:19:49 AM, TheJackel wrote:
At 8/22/2012 12:43:53 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/22/2012 12:31:13 AM, TheJackel wrote:
Atheists claim that there is no evidence for the existence of God, but there are a :couple problems with that.

First of all, there is evidence of God's existence but atheists just dismiss it as :irrelevant, or argue that it isn't really evidence at all.

Modern Pantheism:

The belief that existence and its rules is GOD, or identical to GOD as the same thing..

You can't get any higher of a GOD concept... And everything is evidence of this GOD while that of everything can not exist without this GOD. So your entire argument is moot, and that makes everything GOD, and as emergent properties of GOD.

What is GOD without existence?

Ask a Christian this question and then ask them what they think of the Pantheist GOD.. It seems to me that first cause is existence itself people, and everything comes from existence itself... Where else you do you think things come from?

From exsploding rocks in space.

Those rocks can only come from existence itself. Can't come from any "where" else. Existence is "where" to anywhere. There is no "where" outside of existence to which things can come from. Thus all things are emergent properties of existence itself. Yep, those rocks too!

We agree on something...just not the reason of existance aand where it comes from.
TheAsylum
TheJackel
Posts: 508
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8/22/2012 5:13:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 3:34:22 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/22/2012 3:19:49 AM, TheJackel wrote:
At 8/22/2012 12:43:53 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/22/2012 12:31:13 AM, TheJackel wrote:
Atheists claim that there is no evidence for the existence of God, but there are a :couple problems with that.

First of all, there is evidence of God's existence but atheists just dismiss it as :irrelevant, or argue that it isn't really evidence at all.

Modern Pantheism:

The belief that existence and its rules is GOD, or identical to GOD as the same thing..

You can't get any higher of a GOD concept... And everything is evidence of this GOD while that of everything can not exist without this GOD. So your entire argument is moot, and that makes everything GOD, and as emergent properties of GOD.

What is GOD without existence?

Ask a Christian this question and then ask them what they think of the Pantheist GOD.. It seems to me that first cause is existence itself people, and everything comes from existence itself... Where else you do you think things come from?

From exsploding rocks in space.

Those rocks can only come from existence itself. Can't come from any "where" else. Existence is "where" to anywhere. There is no "where" outside of existence to which things can come from. Thus all things are emergent properties of existence itself. Yep, those rocks too!

We agree on something...just not the reason of existance aand where it comes from.

Existence is everywhere. It's the totality of "where". Asking where it comes from is meaningless, and surely no entity can create that which itself would be slave to require to exist. Pretty hard to preexist existence so you can create it from a position of nonexistence so yourself can exist.... So what part are you having trouble with here?
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/22/2012 5:16:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 5:13:33 AM, TheJackel wrote:
At 8/22/2012 3:34:22 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/22/2012 3:19:49 AM, TheJackel wrote:
At 8/22/2012 12:43:53 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/22/2012 12:31:13 AM, TheJackel wrote:
Atheists claim that there is no evidence for the existence of God, but there are a :couple problems with that.

First of all, there is evidence of God's existence but atheists just dismiss it as :irrelevant, or argue that it isn't really evidence at all.

Modern Pantheism:

The belief that existence and its rules is GOD, or identical to GOD as the same thing..

You can't get any higher of a GOD concept... And everything is evidence of this GOD while that of everything can not exist without this GOD. So your entire argument is moot, and that makes everything GOD, and as emergent properties of GOD.

What is GOD without existence?

Ask a Christian this question and then ask them what they think of the Pantheist GOD.. It seems to me that first cause is existence itself people, and everything comes from existence itself... Where else you do you think things come from?

From exsploding rocks in space.

Those rocks can only come from existence itself. Can't come from any "where" else. Existence is "where" to anywhere. There is no "where" outside of existence to which things can come from. Thus all things are emergent properties of existence itself. Yep, those rocks too!

We agree on something...just not the reason of existance aand where it comes from.

Existence is everywhere. It's the totality of "where". Asking where it comes from is meaningless, and surely no entity can create that which itself would be slave to require to exist. Pretty hard to preexist existence so you can create it from a position of nonexistence so yourself can exist.... So what part are you having trouble with here?

Your a looney-tune....i will never remark to your comments again unless it is in formal debate.
TheAsylum
TheJackel
Posts: 508
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8/22/2012 5:46:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 5:16:40 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/22/2012 5:13:33 AM, TheJackel wrote:
At 8/22/2012 3:34:22 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/22/2012 3:19:49 AM, TheJackel wrote:
At 8/22/2012 12:43:53 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/22/2012 12:31:13 AM, TheJackel wrote:
Atheists claim that there is no evidence for the existence of God, but there are a :couple problems with that.

First of all, there is evidence of God's existence but atheists just dismiss it as :irrelevant, or argue that it isn't really evidence at all.

Modern Pantheism:

The belief that existence and its rules is GOD, or identical to GOD as the same thing..

You can't get any higher of a GOD concept... And everything is evidence of this GOD while that of everything can not exist without this GOD. So your entire argument is moot, and that makes everything GOD, and as emergent properties of GOD.

What is GOD without existence?

Ask a Christian this question and then ask them what they think of the Pantheist GOD.. It seems to me that first cause is existence itself people, and everything comes from existence itself... Where else you do you think things come from?

From exsploding rocks in space.

Those rocks can only come from existence itself. Can't come from any "where" else. Existence is "where" to anywhere. There is no "where" outside of existence to which things can come from. Thus all things are emergent properties of existence itself. Yep, those rocks too!

We agree on something...just not the reason of existance aand where it comes from.

Existence is everywhere. It's the totality of "where". Asking where it comes from is meaningless, and surely no entity can create that which itself would be slave to require to exist. Pretty hard to preexist existence so you can create it from a position of nonexistence so yourself can exist.... So what part are you having trouble with here?

Your a looney-tune....i will never remark to your comments again unless it is in formal debate.

ad hominems are usually a good indication of someone who can't handle the debate, or argument... You want to debate me on the concept of GOD? Feel free to try..
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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8/22/2012 6:47:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/21/2012 11:06:26 PM, medic0506 wrote:
I saw this argument in an article on atheist fallacies, so it's not my own original argument, but I do agree with it.

Atheists claim that there is no evidence for the existence of God, but there are a couple problems with that.

First of all, there is evidence of God's existence but atheists just dismiss it as irrelevant, or argue that it isn't really evidence at all.

Secondly, you can't know that there is no evidence unless all evidence is known, unless you are omniscient. This seems to necessitate that a reasonable person at least admit that it's possible that there is evidence for God. If it's possible that there is evidence, then what is acceptable as evidence??

I'd suggest reading the article to get the entire argument. It's a quick read and well worth the time. I'm interested in what the atheists have to say about it.

http://www.atheismsfallacies.com...

(Imagined discussion with author for a moment)

The entire claim itself completely misunderstands what we say by "there is no evidence for God". That doesn't mean anything regarding test tubes and oxidisation. It doesn't mean that evidence for God cannot possibly exist (though some affirm the truth of that statement independently). It means that, of all the evidence that we have been able to access and interpret and think about, none of it sufficiently proves God. Saying things like "but there is strong evidence, you just reject it" is an awkward claim at best. It assumes instantly that one is already correct by first saying that we have recieved the best explanation of an argument to prove God, and that you (the speaker) have not heard the rebuttals we have. I cannot count the number of times where I have brought up new rebuttals to arguments, with the response being "that's invalid" or "that's wrong", with no further explanation (apart from occasional name-the-fallacy games).

Further, the idea of being able to say there is no evidence for God is fallacious came up, because we are not omniscient. This is in itself an illogical argument, as it means that nothing is falsifiable, or false, because we are not omniscient. Further, it means as a result nothing is verifiable, or true, because we are not omniscient. What is true is that we cannot know anything certainly (apart from definitions). I know that when I drop a ball it will hit the floor, but there is still the chance, no matter how small and dismissable, that it will not hit the floor.

I did add an addendum, though, that we can know something certainly if it is a definition. Now, assume for a moment we are in the predicate of logical discussion. If I can prove something to be internally inconsistent, then it cannot rationally exist. If it does not rationally exist, then I can say with absolute certainty something does not exist. Omnipotence paradoxes, for example, show this.

You give the example of a trial, so I will as well, because I feel that the atheist can expect to stand up in the middle, state the invalidity of the evidence, and as the defence get off scot free.

Imagine that the plaintiff in a murder case stands up, and says "Your Honour, look at this watch. It was dropped at the crime scene by the defendant, showing he was at the crime scene. Further, he has a clear motive to kill the victim, as he would not promote him in his job at IBM. Finally, I have two signed confession notes by the victim from four months ago, saying what he planned to do! The evidence easily shows he is the victim". Now, there currently looks like there is a lot of evidence for the prosecution.

The defence attorney then stands. "Your honour, the watch is a fabrication, and we cannot find any watch in the evidence locker, nor was it ever logged by any of the policemen apart from the one who handed it in. Further, the watch was forced into the hands of my client, which is why it has fingerprints all over it. The motive itself is mad, because my client never worked at IBM to begin with, nor wanted to! Finally, the first note is an interpolation, evident by the fact that it was discovered five minutes ago, and the second is a facebook status which was blown out of proportion."

If the prosecution then stands and states that "All you're doing is showing the evidence is wrong!" or invalid, or inconsistent with other facts, then the prosecution, not the defendants, would be the laughing stock of the community.

Oh, and then you go on to point out the problems of general revelation, so I don't see much else to say.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/22/2012 6:52:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
ad hominems are usually a good indication of someone who can't handle the debate, or argument... You want to debate me on the concept of GOD? Feel free to try..

I accept with eagerness. I havent debated in a minute but I got time now too. You challenge me since your the one with the claim. I suggest along the lines of Yehweh is a valcano or Yehweh is just a mountain God or Yehweh is just a mountain or something along those lines you decide. Its your claim.
TheAsylum
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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8/22/2012 3:09:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/21/2012 11:26:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I have not seen any convincing evidence that suggests the existence of any supernatural being, including God and I live my life under the assumption that such beings exist only within our minds.
However, given our minds are powerful, unpredictable, mysterious things, I'm certain that many, many people believe that the same evidence that I look at and say 'meh' is a home run.

There is no knockout punch that "proves" God exists. The proof is in the faith, if that makes any sense. It's faith that allows beleivers to see that there is evidence of God. Free will allows each person to decide how they see the evidence. To us, intelligent life is a sign of God, to atheists it's nothing more than a random chemical reaction. I think you're correct in that people see the evidence differently, and that's exactly how God intended it to be.

I have the points that I know are false (like YEC nonsense and claims about evangelical charlatans like Benny Hinn for example) and will still argue about and points (mostly philosophical arguments) that I just have to agree to disagree on because I simply don't care enough to go deeper into metaphysics.
medic0506
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8/22/2012 3:41:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/21/2012 11:43:14 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:06:26 PM, medic0506 wrote:
First of all, there is evidence of God's existence but atheists just dismiss it as irrelevant, or argue that it isn't really evidence at all.

Such as? The evidence (for obvious reasons) cannot be personal experience or anything subjective.

Let's start with the universe as evidence.

Who says personal experience can't be evidence?? That's just silly. It may not be convincing to someone who hasn't experienced it, but that doesn't mean that it isn't evidence at all. Your lack of experience with God is a guiding factor for you, and that's based on your personal experience, so why discount others who have different personal experience when you can't disprove their experience??

Secondly, you can't know that there is no evidence unless all evidence is known, unless you are omniscient. This seems to necessitate that a reasonable person at least admit that it's possible that there is evidence for God. If it's possible that there is evidence, then what is acceptable as evidence??

So we should accept a possibility because even though there is no current evidence, evidence may come up? Lolz.

Lolz...You already do that with your own beleifs. You have faith that someday science will show how the universe was formed and will show that there is a natural explanation which will rule out God.

Secondly, you're ignoring the whole point of the thread. You're just insisting that there is no evidence for God. You're using the Nuh-uh defense. How can you possibly be convinced that there is no evidence when you don't have all available evidence, and can't even prove what the existing evidence means in regards to God's existence??
TheJackel
Posts: 508
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8/22/2012 4:08:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 3:41:03 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:43:14 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:06:26 PM, medic0506 wrote:
First of all, there is evidence of God's existence but atheists just dismiss it as irrelevant, or argue that it isn't really evidence at all.

Such as? The evidence (for obvious reasons) cannot be personal experience or anything subjective.

Let's start with the universe as evidence.

Who says personal experience can't be evidence?? That's just silly. It may not be convincing to someone who hasn't experienced it, but that doesn't mean that it isn't evidence at all. Your lack of experience with God is a guiding factor for you, and that's based on your personal experience, so why discount others who have different personal experience when you can't disprove their experience??

The evidence of the Universe is only evidence of the Universe, or existence itself.. Trying to using something else as evidence or proof of a god is nonsensical, especially when it entirely relies on remaining an absolute negative. We have direct evidence of a rabbits existence, we don't have direct evidence of some magical beings existence. And saying "oh you can't disprove its existence" is essentially admitting your argument rests entirely on an appeal to ignorance and an absolute negative. Funny, Pantheists don't have to rest the existence of their GOD such appeals to ignorance..They don't even have to try and prove the existence of their god since it's self-evident and existence itself.

Secondly, you can't know that there is no evidence unless all evidence is known, :unless you are omniscient. This seems to necessitate that a reasonable person at :least admit that it's possible that there is evidence for God. If it's possible that :there is evidence, then what is acceptable as evidence??

We already established one GOD's existence. Hello? The Pantheist GOD... Any other is moot in comparison.. And what would be acceptable evidence? Same as we would require someone to prove the existence of big foot, and actual specimen! Pantheist don't seem to be having this problem.. And let's face reality here, Abrahamic religions rely on their idea of GOD to be an absolute negative, and to ride on ignorance to which includes ignorance of the history of their own religion and what it really was based on and came from.

Lolz...You already do that with your own beleifs. You have faith that someday :science will show how the universe was formed and will show that there is a :natural explanation which will rule out God.

Incorrect. They must show empirically their findings before I ever accept them. And I accept an empirically supported system because its far more reliable than a blind faith system. There is a huge difference between the two.

Secondly, you're ignoring the whole point of the thread. You're just insisting that :there is no evidence for God. You're using the Nuh-uh defense. How can you :possibly be convinced that there is no evidence when you don't have all available :evidence, and can't even prove what the existing evidence means in regards to :God's existence??

Do you accept the existence of the Pantheist GOD? That being existence itself.. ??