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Homophobia, Communion, Catholicism

studentathletechristian8
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9/11/2009 6:48:11 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Having attended a private, Catholic high school for the last three years, I have encountered many peers who are both Catholic and homophobic. Whenever I ask them as to why they are homophobic, their main response is that homosexuality is "not normal" and that God "kills people for being gay." However, these "reasons" for their beliefs are not justified. Who is to say what is normal within society today? As a Christian, you are supposed to accept others no matter who they are or what they have previously done. However, many Catholics are content with acting high-and-mighty in comparison to other denominations while being satisfied with judging others for their faults and weaknesses. All the Catholics at my school hate gays without justification. Although not gay myself, it just pisses me off that people can be so ignorant.
At my school, the campus minister explicitly came to our religion classrooms and explained what we would do at the school mass. As she got to the part about taking Holy Communion, she said that "while the Catholics take it, people of other religions should stay seated and respectful." What garbage. I take Communion as a Methodist every week in my service. How dare a Catholic person discriminate against me because of my faith in another denomination. I took Confirmation class, I attend service weekly. It pretty much falls under the category as Catholics being more judgemental and less "Christian" than any other groups of Christians out there.
I would like to use this last paragraph to rant for several seconds. The main thing about Catholicism that urks me is that its followers really do not act Christianlike to people of different religions or even other denominations of Christianity. Most Catholics have no justification at all for their beliefs, and when you start hearing them cling the Bible and pick out random quotes to rebut me with, it gets annoying. Why do Catholics seem to be the least Christianlike out of all the Christian denominations? Many Catholics at my school are conservatives. First, I was strongly conservative, but with Obama getting elected, I turned more open-minded and became a moderate. However, hearing the conservatives at my school talk about politics made me want to be liberal, as hearing liberals on television and the radio made me want to drive my car over a cliff and turn conservative. Oh yeah, one more thing. Whenever Catholics are asked what religion they are, they never say "Christian." They most always say "Catholic." Catholicism is a denomination, not a religion. It falls under Christianity. I would not mind debating a Catholic regarding the different faiths of Christians.

P.S. I do not mean to offend specific Catholics on this site.
Xer
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9/11/2009 7:13:59 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/11/2009 6:48:11 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
Whenever Catholics are asked what religion they are, they never say "Christian." They most always say "Catholic." Catholicism is a denomination, not a religion. It falls under Christianity. I would not mind debating a Catholic regarding the different faiths of Christians.

Haha, lmao. Yeah, I've always noticed that too. It's funny. If I ask a Catholic what religion they are, always Catholic. If I ask a Protestant, Methodist, etc, it can vary, but is usually Christian.

P.S. I do not mean to offend specific Catholics on this site.

Is there even any Catholics on this site?

---

I also am a Junior at a Catholic School. I'm an agnostic/atheist so it is even harsher for me. There is like 4 other agnostic/atheists in my class, so I am an outcast when it comes to religion haha. I agree though, they have no justification for their beliefs. Debating Catholics is the easiest win possible.
Volkov
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9/11/2009 7:34:28 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/11/2009 7:13:59 PM, Nags wrote:
At 9/11/2009 6:48:11 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
Whenever Catholics are asked what religion they are, they never say "Christian." They most always say "Catholic." Catholicism is a denomination, not a religion. It falls under Christianity. I would not mind debating a Catholic regarding the different faiths of Christians.

Haha, lmao. Yeah, I've always noticed that too. It's funny. If I ask a Catholic what religion they are, always Catholic. If I ask a Protestant, Methodist, etc, it can vary, but is usually Christian.

Do either of you know why this is? I have a general idea about why, but I'd like to hear specifics.
Xer
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9/11/2009 7:41:23 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/11/2009 7:34:28 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 9/11/2009 7:13:59 PM, Nags wrote:
At 9/11/2009 6:48:11 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
Whenever Catholics are asked what religion they are, they never say "Christian." They most always say "Catholic." Catholicism is a denomination, not a religion. It falls under Christianity. I would not mind debating a Catholic regarding the different faiths of Christians.

Haha, lmao. Yeah, I've always noticed that too. It's funny. If I ask a Catholic what religion they are, always Catholic. If I ask a Protestant, Methodist, etc, it can vary, but is usually Christian.

Do either of you know why this is? I have a general idea about why, but I'd like to hear specifics.

Religion teachers really hammer into our heads that we are Catholic, still Christian, but more importantly Catholic. Other than that, I have no clue. Catholics are really adamant on being called Catholics, not Christians.

For example,
Me: "You guys are all Christian, explain to me how....."
Classmates: "We're not Christian, we're Catholic."
Me: "All Catholics are Christians, not all Christians are Catholic though."
Classmates: "Yeah, whatever, we're Catholics."

I really don't get the reasoning behind it.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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9/11/2009 7:46:12 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/11/2009 6:48:11 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
God "kills people for being gay."

wow!
LOL!
that is extremely funny to me.

do people really say that?
wow... throw the title "gracious god" out if the window huh...
studentathletechristian8
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9/11/2009 7:46:18 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/11/2009 7:41:23 PM, Nags wrote:
At 9/11/2009 7:34:28 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 9/11/2009 7:13:59 PM, Nags wrote:
At 9/11/2009 6:48:11 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
Whenever Catholics are asked what religion they are, they never say "Christian." They most always say "Catholic." Catholicism is a denomination, not a religion. It falls under Christianity. I would not mind debating a Catholic regarding the different faiths of Christians.

Haha, lmao. Yeah, I've always noticed that too. It's funny. If I ask a Catholic what religion they are, always Catholic. If I ask a Protestant, Methodist, etc, it can vary, but is usually Christian.

Do either of you know why this is? I have a general idea about why, but I'd like to hear specifics.

Religion teachers really hammer into our heads that we are Catholic, still Christian, but more importantly Catholic. Other than that, I have no clue. Catholics are really adamant on being called Catholics, not Christians.

For example,
Me: "You guys are all Christian, explain to me how....."
Classmates: "We're not Christian, we're Catholic."
Me: "All Catholics are Christians, not all Christians are Catholic though."
Classmates: "Yeah, whatever, we're Catholics."

I really don't get the reasoning behind it.

Agreed. It seems as thought Catholics are being brainwashed by judgemental and ignorant human beings.
Volkov
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9/11/2009 7:49:48 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/11/2009 7:41:23 PM, Nags wrote:
Religion teachers really hammer into our heads that we are Catholic, still Christian, but more importantly Catholic. Other than that, I have no clue. Catholics are really adamant on being called Catholics, not Christians.

For example,
Me: "You guys are all Christian, explain to me how....."
Classmates: "We're not Christian, we're Catholic."
Me: "All Catholics are Christians, not all Christians are Catholic though."
Classmates: "Yeah, whatever, we're Catholics."

I really don't get the reasoning behind it.

From what I know, it is due to the schism between Protestants and Catholics. In fact, I'm not sure about this, but I think the original name for the first organized churches was "Catholic"; because as I know, Catholicism has to do with communion with the Church of Rome - and when Luther split the faith, those that followed him called themselves "Christian," due to the idea of Luther's that individuals were meant to commune with Christ and God, and not with the Church and the Pope.
comoncents
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9/11/2009 7:55:27 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/11/2009 7:13:59 PM, Nags wrote:
At 9/11/2009 6:48:11 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
Whenever Catholics are asked what religion they are, they never say "Christian." They most always say "Catholic." Catholicism is a denomination, not a religion. It falls under Christianity. I would not mind debating a Catholic regarding the different faiths of Christians.


I think it is because catholicism is not as popular as christian.
People who are catholic believe that most of there core beliefs are adopted by the christian religion.
Since christianity is more easily received, with out a ton of questions asked, it is easier for people to say they are christian(but really catholic).

Other reasons are because the person, in question, was raised catholic but really believe in christianity... in front of family and others they are catholic, but in there mind they are christians.
so when asked they say which ever one of the options come out first.

so i think...
Xer
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9/11/2009 7:55:58 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/11/2009 7:49:48 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 9/11/2009 7:41:23 PM, Nags wrote:
Religion teachers really hammer into our heads that we are Catholic, still Christian, but more importantly Catholic. Other than that, I have no clue. Catholics are really adamant on being called Catholics, not Christians.

For example,
Me: "You guys are all Christian, explain to me how....."
Classmates: "We're not Christian, we're Catholic."
Me: "All Catholics are Christians, not all Christians are Catholic though."
Classmates: "Yeah, whatever, we're Catholics."

I really don't get the reasoning behind it.

From what I know, it is due to the schism between Protestants and Catholics. In fact, I'm not sure about this, but I think the original name for the first organized churches was "Catholic"; because as I know, Catholicism has to do with communion with the Church of Rome - and when Luther split the faith, those that followed him called themselves "Christian," due to the idea of Luther's that individuals were meant to commune with Christ and God, and not with the Church and the Pope.

Maybe that is the reasoning for theologians, but not in my experience with regular people. Everything is "Living a Catholic Life" - "Social/Catholic Justice" - "How to be a good Catholic" - and so on. There is no reasoning whatsoever. Of course, it makes sense for Catholics to call themselves Catholic instead of Christian. Just like it makes more sense to call myself a 'Ron Paul Republican, non-interventionist, Austrian Economist' rather than Paleo-Libertarian. The more descriptive, the better... I guess. But, in everyday talk, Catholics get annoyed by being called Christians, while no other Christians behave the same way. Just weird..
Volkov
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9/11/2009 7:58:32 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/11/2009 7:55:58 PM, Nags wrote:
Maybe that is the reasoning for theologians, but not in my experience with regular people. Everything is "Living a Catholic Life" - "Social/Catholic Justice" - "How to be a good Catholic" - and so on. There is no reasoning whatsoever. Of course, it makes sense for Catholics to call themselves Catholic instead of Christian. Just like it makes more sense to call myself a 'Ron Paul Republican, non-interventionist, Austrian Economist' rather than Paleo-Libertarian. The more descriptive, the better... I guess. But, in everyday talk, Catholics get annoyed by being called Christians, while no other Christians behave the same way. Just weird..

It isn't just reasoning for theologians; it is the historical reasons why this schism exists, and why the idea of "Catholics aren't Christians" is enforced.
Xer
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9/11/2009 8:14:31 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/11/2009 7:58:32 PM, Volkov wrote:
It isn't just reasoning for theologians; it is the historical reasons why this schism exists, and why the idea of "Catholics aren't Christians" is enforced.

You're missing the point. That's not what we are taught. We are never told why, only what. I'm skeptical if most people, nevermind my classmates, know why the schism exists. If I asked the average Catholic why they prefer Catholic over Christian, they would not have the answer.
Volkov
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9/11/2009 8:30:56 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/11/2009 8:14:31 PM, Nags wrote:
You're missing the point. That's not what we are taught. We are never told why, only what. I'm skeptical if most people, nevermind my classmates, know why the schism exists. If I asked the average Catholic why they prefer Catholic over Christian, they would not have the answer.

Ah, you're right, I was missing the point.

They should teach why this schism exists; I see no reason why not to. I mean, its just basically explaining why Catholics are Catholics - nothing negative about it. Are they afraid that people will see the pettiness in such actions?
Lexicaholic
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9/12/2009 1:15:52 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/11/2009 6:48:11 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
Having attended a private, Catholic high school for the last three years ...

Glad you're getting out now then. As a former victim of Catholic education, I commiserate.

At my school, the campus minister explicitly came to our religion classrooms and explained what we would do at the school mass. As she got to the part about taking Holy Communion, she said that "while the Catholics take it, people of other religions should stay seated and respectful." What garbage. I take Communion as a Methodist every week in my service. How dare a Catholic person discriminate against me because of my faith in another denomination.

This is standard Catholic operating procedure. Only Catholics who have faithfully attended mass, recently confessed sins and otherwise obeyed all the other odd rituals of Catholicism may partake of the sacrament. So Catholics don't even let all Catholics do that, normally.

Most Catholics have no justification at all for their beliefs, and when you start hearing them cling the Bible and pick out random quotes to rebut me with, it gets annoying. Why do Catholics seem to be the least Christianlike out of all the Christian denominations? Oh yeah, one more thing. Whenever Catholics are asked what religion they are, they never say "Christian."

"Catholic" actually means "universal." When a Catholic says that he or she is a member of the Catholic church, he or she is saying "I am a member of the universal church." In other words, he or she is saying that he or she is a member of the only real church. Catholics are trained to believe that this is a proper expression of their faith, and never consider how disrespectful that is towards other religions. Members of other religious practices probably never take the time to realize this, and thus do not feel offended.

-- All answers provided by a former Catholic. Accuracy of factual statements of religious belief are subject to change from pope to pope. ;)
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studentathletechristian8
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9/12/2009 4:45:19 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/12/2009 1:15:52 AM, Lexicaholic wrote:
At 9/11/2009 6:48:11 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
Having attended a private, Catholic high school for the last three years ...

Glad you're getting out now then. As a former victim of Catholic education, I commiserate.

At my school, the campus minister explicitly came to our religion classrooms and explained what we would do at the school mass. As she got to the part about taking Holy Communion, she said that "while the Catholics take it, people of other religions should stay seated and respectful." What garbage. I take Communion as a Methodist every week in my service. How dare a Catholic person discriminate against me because of my faith in another denomination.

This is standard Catholic operating procedure. Only Catholics who have faithfully attended mass, recently confessed sins and otherwise obeyed all the other odd rituals of Catholicism may partake of the sacrament. So Catholics don't even let all Catholics do that, normally.

Most Catholics have no justification at all for their beliefs, and when you start hearing them cling the Bible and pick out random quotes to rebut me with, it gets annoying. Why do Catholics seem to be the least Christianlike out of all the Christian denominations? Oh yeah, one more thing. Whenever Catholics are asked what religion they are, they never say "Christian."

"Catholic" actually means "universal." When a Catholic says that he or she is a member of the Catholic church, he or she is saying "I am a member of the universal church." In other words, he or she is saying that he or she is a member of the only real church. Catholics are trained to believe that this is a proper expression of their faith, and never consider how disrespectful that is towards other religions. Members of other religious practices probably never take the time to realize this, and thus do not feel offended.

-- All answers provided by a former Catholic. Accuracy of factual statements of religious belief are subject to change from pope to pope. ;)

I'm sorry Lex, but you are mistaking on one point. "Catholic" does not mean universal. The word "catholic," with a lower case "c," does. There is kind of a big difference between the two, but thanks for the feedback.
I-am-a-panda
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9/12/2009 5:35:32 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I used to be Catholic, but always challenged how God did something, and the logic of it all, even from an early age.

I turned form Catholicism since the Catholic church isn't taking logical steps in terms of contraception for Africans, instead promoting abstinence. If God is prove nt ome, I won't follow any specific religion.

Nags, not only do I go to a Catholic school, but my countries constitution has it that Catholicism has a "special place" in Ireland. Which means someone elses belief is valued over mine :\.
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Cerebral_Narcissist
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9/12/2009 6:55:37 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/11/2009 6:48:11 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
Having attended a private, Catholic high school for the last three years, I have encountered many peers who are both Catholic and homophobic. Whenever I ask them as to why they are homophobic, their main response is that homosexuality is "not normal" and that God "kills people for being gay." However, these "reasons" for their beliefs are not justified. Who is to say what is normal within society today?

I am not a Christian, but I understand that a Christian does not base their understanding on what is right and wrong on 'modern society' but on the Bible. The bible clearly condemns homosexuality.

As a Christian, you are supposed to accept others no matter who they are or what they have previously done.

No not really, I don't think that is biblically based. You are to avoid hyprocritical judgements, be ready to forgive and bring the 'word' to everyone regardless but the fact remains that certain people are sinners according to the 'guidebook'.

However, many Catholics are content with acting high-and-mighty in comparison
to other denominations

Well they would do wouldn't they? Catholicism regards itself as THE Church.

while being satisfied with judging others for their faults
and weaknesses. All the Catholics at my school hate gays without justification. Although not gay myself, it just pisses me off that people can be so ignorant.
At my school, the campus minister explicitly came to our religion classrooms and explained what we would do at the school mass. As she got to the part about taking Holy Communion, she said that "while the Catholics take it, people of other religions should stay seated and respectful." What garbage. I take Communion as a Methodist every week in my service. How dare a Catholic person discriminate against me because of my faith in another denomination. I took Confirmation class, I attend service weekly. It pretty much falls under the category as Catholics being more judgemental and less "Christian" than any other groups of Christians out there.

Yes it's discrimination, you are not a member of their religion and so they won't regard you as a member of their religion. It is perfectly justified.

Oh yeah, one more thing. Whenever Catholics are asked what religion they are,
they never say "Christian." They most always say "Catholic." Catholicism is a
denomination, not a religion. It falls under Christianity. I would not mind debating
a Catholic regarding the different faiths of Christians.


Most Christians would reply with their denomination, it simply supplies more details.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
studentathletechristian8
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9/12/2009 7:40:31 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/12/2009 6:55:37 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:

Yes it's discrimination, you are not a member of their religion and so they won't regard you as a member of their religion. It is perfectly justified.

This is a stupid sentence. Catholicism is a branch of Christianity. Methodism is a branch of Christianity. Obviously, I am a member of the Christian religion, same as a Catholic. (Although Catholics usually don't see it like that)

When I'm in religion class at my school, all the teacher talks about is morality and Scripture. They never really explain the logic of it, they just repeat it constantly to reinforce it.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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9/12/2009 7:49:24 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/12/2009 7:40:31 AM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 9/12/2009 6:55:37 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:

Yes it's discrimination, you are not a member of their religion and so they won't regard you as a member of their religion. It is perfectly justified.

This is a stupid sentence. Catholicism is a branch of Christianity. Methodism is a branch of Christianity. Obviously, I am a member of the Christian religion, same as a Catholic. (Although Catholics usually don't see it like that)


Stupid in what way? If you are a Roman Catholic you are a Roman Catholic, other people may be Christians of other Churches but they are not Roman Catholics and they are not truely members of your religion. Are you aware of what it means to be a Catholic? Are you aware on the current Pope's views on non-Catholic Christian Churches?

Maybe you would like to tell reformed and orthodox Jews they are the same, or tells Mormons and Santeria followers they are the same.

When I'm in religion class at my school, all the teacher talks about is morality and Scripture. They never really explain the logic of it, they just repeat it constantly to reinforce it.

That is religion for you.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Rezzealaux
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9/12/2009 8:15:46 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/12/2009 7:49:24 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/12/2009 7:40:31 AM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
When I'm in religion class at my school, all the teacher talks about is morality and Scripture. They never really explain the logic of it, they just repeat it constantly to reinforce it.

That is religion for you.

Hmm, sounds like West Point to me. Except minus scripture and plus constitution.

At 9/12/2009 8:12:37 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Catholic means 'universal'.

Do you see a difference between uppercased' C and lowercased' c for Catholic/catholic, DAT?
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"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Lexicaholic
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9/12/2009 10:43:47 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/12/2009 4:45:19 AM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:

I'm sorry Lex, but you are mistaking on one point. "Catholic" does not mean universal. The word "catholic," with a lower case "c," does. There is kind of a big difference between the two, but thanks for the feedback.

While that is true for the rational world, to practicing Catholics there is no real difference. I remember my religious education instruction fairly well on this point. Catholic was meant to mean universal because Catholics view themselves as the heirs of the true religion of Christ as passed down through the papacy. While the Catholic Church is not actually universal, the Catholic Church thinks of itself as the sole true universal church to which all members should belong. Other Christian denominations are basically viewed as wayward children.

Once again, at least that was the impression I was left with. I find it funny that you are dealing with the ignorance related to homosexuality at your school. At my school the issues that stuck in my craw were blatant racism and religious intolerance. (At the time, I much regret to admit, I believed that homosexuals and pedophiles were one in the same thing ... primarily due to my Catholic upbringing, which only presented homosexual behavior in relation to child molestation and incest. Therefore, I was very homophobic, at least until high school.)
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DATCMOTO
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9/14/2009 3:27:20 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/12/2009 8:15:46 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
At 9/12/2009 7:49:24 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/12/2009 7:40:31 AM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
When I'm in religion class at my school, all the teacher talks about is morality and Scripture. They never really explain the logic of it, they just repeat it constantly to reinforce it.

That is religion for you.

Hmm, sounds like West Point to me. Except minus scripture and plus constitution.

At 9/12/2009 8:12:37 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Catholic means 'universal'.

Do you see a difference between uppercased' C and lowercased' c for Catholic/catholic, DAT?

Not particuarly. I always try to begin a sentence with a capital letter.
The Cross.. the Cross.