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And you Believe heaven and hell exist?

The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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8/27/2012 1:11:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Fool: Is this a problem?
Sound like it.

Thoughts, responses, and opinions?
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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8/27/2012 2:26:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/27/2012 2:05:09 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
I believe heaven and hell does exist.

The Fool: Did you even see the video, just start it 30 seconds in. The Dillema is that people with split brains have two seperate minds. In this case one believed in GOd and the Other part didn't. How do you account for that?
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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8/27/2012 7:52:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Fool: I will make it even clearer.

There are people who have had surgery where their brains had to be split in half, to rid some other ailment. (often life threating seizures). But this split seperated into two distinct consiousneses. So technically into two souls. But there has been patients where ONE half of the Brain believes in God, and the other half does not. If Christainity is correct.

How do you account for this phenomena?

Does this person go to heaven or hell?

How could souls be separate from the body when clearly they can be cut in half buy physical means?
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/27/2012 7:58:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/27/2012 7:52:56 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: I will make it even clearer.

There are people who have had surgery where their brains had to be split in half, to rid some other ailment. (often life threating seizures). But this split seperated into two distinct consiousneses. So technically into two souls. :

IDK about that, maybe split personalities. I, BTW believe that multiple personalities are demonic pocessions because when ones active the other is supressed. This happens in demonic posscessions as well.
But there has been patients where ONE half of the Brain believes in God, and the other half does not. If Christainity is correct.

Again if posscessed the demon would reject God.
How do you account for this phenomena?

Demonic posscessions. Also medical doctors playing with people more than they should.
Does this person go to heaven or hell?

Hell if anyone doesnt accept Jesus Christ as thier savior. Believing in God isnt enough there are many 'so called' Gods. Only Jesus Christ shed his blood.
How could souls be separate from the body when clearly they can be cut in half buy physical means?
They wasnt.
TheAsylum
ScottyDouglas
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8/27/2012 8:01:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/27/2012 1:11:27 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: Is this a problem?
Sound like it.

Thoughts, responses, and opinions?


Though this is interesting, Im no medical doctor. I am spiritual and my expalnations derive from there. Maybe someone else will post with further knowledge.
TheAsylum
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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8/27/2012 7:53:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Bump..
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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8/28/2012 1:35:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/27/2012 2:05:09 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
I believe heaven and hell does exist.

heaven + hell = two subjects, so the pronoun would be "they"

They do exist
Heaven and hell do exist
I believe heaven and hell do exist
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
CarlosMarti123
Posts: 25
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8/28/2012 1:34:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/27/2012 2:26:39 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 8/27/2012 2:05:09 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
I believe heaven and hell does exist.

The Fool: Did you even see the video, just start it 30 seconds in. The Dillema is that people with split brains have two seperate minds. In this case one believed in GOd and the Other part didn't. How do you account for that?

I see no 'dilemma' here, though it is an interesting question.

If the two sections of the brain become completely separate and independent in their thoughts, but remain fully functional, it seems reasonable that both should now be considered separate brains and individuals. A somewhat similar situation occurs when two identical twins share the same body but separate brains and thoughts (without the shared history though).

By the way, it is not belief in God that determines whether a person enjoys eternal union with God, the source of all that is good and true and beautiful (heaven), or endure eternal separation from Him (hell). See James 2:14-26. Even the demons believe in God, and they shudder!

Rather, it is one's acceptance of the free gift of salvation and forgiveness Christ gave us that determines whether they will be judged and condemned for their actions. So the question is not whether each of these individuals believe in God, but whether they accept Christ's offering of salvation (though the second belief entails the first, of course).
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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9/1/2012 11:07:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 1:34:08 PM, CarlosMarti123 wrote:
At 8/27/2012 2:26:39 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 8/27/2012 2:05:09 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
I believe heaven and hell does exist.

The Fool: Did you even see the video, just start it 30 seconds in. The Dillema is that people with split brains have two seperate minds. In this case one believed in GOd and the Other part didn't. How do you account for that?

I see no 'dilemma' here, though it is an interesting question.

If the two sections of the brain become completely separate and independent in their thoughts, but remain fully functional, it seems reasonable that both should now be considered separate brains and individuals. A somewhat similar situation occurs when two identical twins share the same body but separate brains and thoughts (without the shared history though).

The Fool: Well they are still like half because certain brain function are only on one side. And both side have to walk together. Perfectly.

By the way, it is not belief in God that determines whether a person enjoys eternal union with God, the source of all that is good and true and beautiful (heaven), or endure eternal separation from Him (hell). See James 2:14-26. Even the demons believe in God, and they shudder!

The Fool: THere is and infinite amount of way to interpret the Bible.

Rather, it is one's acceptance of the free gift of salvation and forgiveness Christ gave us that determines whether they will be judged and condemned for their actions.

The Fool: Lets be honest there threatening that someone will burn in hell if they dont' take a Gift. Takes away any rational sense of freedom. IF somebody is trying to do that to give away a free gift. There is something wrong with the gift. Its worse then putting a gun to someone held. I someone would rather have AIDs then have the ultimatim the whole think is Immoral.

So the question is not whether each of these individuals believe in God, but whether they accept Christ's offering of salvation (though the second belief entails the first, of course).

The Fool: The rest of the book says that and the opposite.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
baggins
Posts: 855
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9/2/2012 2:22:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/27/2012 1:11:27 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: Is this a problem?
Sound like it.

Thoughts, responses, and opinions?


I don't think it is possible to answer the question. We don't yet know biologically what is 'self' or 'soul' which is present in human beings. So we don't really understand the question completely. On other hand we do know intuitively that a sense of self (or soul) does exist.

The case being discussed was a rare case. It is possible that in fact their are two persons inside and the two may have different ends. So VS Ramachandran may have answered his own query - though I doubt that physical brains eventually matter. This is just one possible solution. Ultimately the decision is up to Allah, who is the best of all judges.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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9/2/2012 3:05:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've heard of splitting the brain's bridge before for the purpose of treating severe epilepsy and I know they don't have two different sentiences, they live largely regular lives. I don't even know what the man is describing is even possible. Patents with one side of their brain dead are severally disabled or in a vegetative state if living at all. How the two sides can talk and read doesn't make sense.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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9/2/2012 2:03:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm not speaking of just Heaven and Hell, but faith and doubt exists in all of us. No one is completely sure, of that which he, or she, believes. People only differ by degrees of honesty.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,057
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9/2/2012 7:55:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The_Fool_on_the_hill you said..
So the question is not whether each of these individuals believe in God, but whether they accept Christ's offering of salvation (though the second belief entails the first, of course).

I reply: Scriptures please... Point me to scriptures that say you must accept the offering!
Scriptures say: "You MUST LOVE!
You MUST believe "The words of the word to be a BELIEVER"!
The words of; "The Word"... "To have eternal life you must love!"

Jesus said: To have eternal life you MUST LOVE God and or Neighbor!
Believers believe "LOVE SAVES"!
Believers believe the words of Jesus!

GIVING is not working as for a wage.. GIVING of self from the heart is: LOVE!
Scriptures.. (God' words) "When did we GIVE you water to drink"? "When you GAVE it to the least of my brothers you GAVE it to me!"

These people go to heaven because they LOVE!
These people go to heaven because they GIVE!

So a split brain means nothing.. The real question is, does the man "LOVE"?

Accepting Jesus is moot!
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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9/3/2012 3:31:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
bumb
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
DavidJames1
Posts: 122
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9/5/2012 3:05:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Heaven does exist, but not all people go there when they die!

Hell (as in a fiery place of torment) does not exist!

Hell as in hades and sheol (the common grave, the ground, the pit) do exist.