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What is the Law?

Paradox_7
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8/28/2012 7:42:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lately i've been encountering a strange confusion when discussing the word of god with fellow Christians, in regards to the LAW.

I've heard some pretty far out things, and I'm curious what most of you believe the LAW of God is.

Do your best to explain your understanding of the law (vs. Gospel), and include as much scripture as you can.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Paradox_7
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8/28/2012 8:07:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 7:45:14 PM, Koopin wrote:
kfc.

CFA
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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8/28/2012 8:43:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The use of the phrase "the law" depends upon the context. Usually, it refers to the Mosaic Law, specifically the ten commandments, but also in some passages could be the entire system of Judaism with its cumbersome demands. This would be in contrast to the simple Law of Christ. Thus, Gal 3:

(2) "This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?"

This would refer to the Mosiac Law, "the works of the Law". "Faith" or "the faith" would refer to the gospel of Christ.

Same with v (5)

"He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?"

"The law" = Mosaic Law
"Faith" = Gospel

Continue to (10)

"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."

And on to 23, 24

"But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith."

Of course, you'll always have those that are law-less, renegades, theological gangstas: they'll deny that they are under any law whatsoever, including the law of Christ.

Gal 6: 2: "Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ."

Maybe 1 Cor 9 offers the best explanation:

"And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
Posts: 5,094
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8/28/2012 10:17:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Paradox_7
"Faith ALONE" is a man made LAW!! In fact, it is a TRADITION!!
Gospel/God tells you, you MUST LOVE!

The Pharisees had TRADITIONS they teach, you must not work on the Sabbath neglecting the greatest law of LOVE!!
Paradox_7 WOE to the man without; Justice, mercy and faithfulness!!!

Justice, mercy and faithfulness are all the actions that come from a persons heart!

Matthew 23:23
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

Paradox_7 don't stop reading until you read verse # 10 (below)
Romans 10:8
But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim:
9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Paradox_7 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified,

Verse #10 tells you faith CAN'T be ALONE!!!
The Pharisees had "Faith ALONE" they have no heart!

Paradox_7 The protestant is the modern day Pharisee, just repackaged!!!

Dogknox
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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8/28/2012 11:24:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Slavery, stoning for working on sunday, genocide, slaughter...all that stuff goes but we must also love our neighbor as ourselves and be forgiving.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/29/2012 1:57:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Because of Jesus Christ the Law is no longer actual works, EX. sacrifices, stoning the sin from us and Passing judgement on sin. Though our works should reflect salvation from sin, Jesus wrote the Law on our hearts. Love and forgivness is now the Law. True Love is passing that Law and Word through teaching to others who know not.
My interpretation of the Law is this:
Man sinned, Adam & Eve. Because of that sin man was no longer able to walk with the Lord unless sin of cast out. God gave us the Law to not only show our loyalty to Him but to rid sin from our lives. Thats why stoning, sacrificing and various other examples must be kept then. They were fulfilling the Law themselves in the OT to rid sin and so God could walk with them. This still some what applies today. Today we as a whole of society will be judged Christian or not because of the people within our society who sin without repentence, which in turn cast judgement on the whole of society. Back then the stoned children and people because thier sin was grevious to the Lord and must be wiped out and the only way was by physical force. They sacrificed to purify themselves from thier sin so God could walk with them(as pure people) and show loyalty only to God. I probably could go on but that Is my opinion in short.
TheAsylum
baggins
Posts: 855
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8/29/2012 2:34:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 7:42:47 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
Lately i've been encountering a strange confusion when discussing the word of god with fellow Christians, in regards to the LAW.

I've heard some pretty far out things, and I'm curious what most of you believe the LAW of God is.

Do your best to explain your understanding of the law (vs. Gospel), and include as much scripture as you can.

From what I remember, 'The Law' is literal translation of 'Torah' (or 'Turait' in Arabic). The first five books of The Old Testament are known as Torah.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/29/2012 2:38:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 2:34:21 AM, baggins wrote:
At 8/28/2012 7:42:47 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
Lately i've been encountering a strange confusion when discussing the word of god with fellow Christians, in regards to the LAW.

I've heard some pretty far out things, and I'm curious what most of you believe the LAW of God is.

Do your best to explain your understanding of the law (vs. Gospel), and include as much scripture as you can.

From what I remember, 'The Law' is literal translation of 'Torah' (or 'Turait' in Arabic). The first five books of The Old Testament are known as Torah.

Iwas thinking he meant the purpose and meaning of the Law.
TheAsylum
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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8/29/2012 3:37:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I thank you all for your input.

Now, I would like to explain the LAW, the way the scriptures reveal it to me.

The Law, is every command that God decrees. If you are told to do something, it is the LAW, there is no need to title which prophet was present during the time the LAW was decreed.

We all know that the LAW is perfection, because God is the author of it.

If you are commanded to do anything in the bible, including commands to love, you are to do it perfectly. Love your neighbor as yourself, Love God with all your heart, mind, and soul.

If you read passages of LAW, whether NT or OT, you should feel only ashamed, and broken.. As Paul did.

The LAW is absolute, and unchanging:

16 All covenants in the history of salvation (e. g. Noah, Abraham, Mose, David, Jesus)
are eternal, because God's oath and promise are irrevocable. God's promises remain in force, and from time to time, new promises are added to the old ones. Therefore, the New Testament takes it for granted that all Christians of today are at the same time included in God's covenant with Noah, Abraham, Mose, David and Jesus Christ. The New Covenant is more glorious than the Old Covenant, just as every period of the history of salvation excels former periods of its glory and extent of revelation. Every progressive step in God's history of salvation leads to changes in how God's covenant with men is put into practice, but neither do God's moral laws change, nor the spiritual principles underlying the outward practice of the covenant.


http://www.contra-mundum.org...
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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8/29/2012 4:30:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 3:59:16 PM, stubs wrote:
"For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" Galations 5:14


My point, exactly.. NO ONE but Christ, has done this, or will do this..

Ex: Romans 7

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting[1]. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

When Paul heard love you neighbor as your self, he was made aware of his sin-- he does not do this. BUT, he realized, that the LAW was meant to expose our depravity..
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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8/29/2012 5:39:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 4:30:44 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 8/29/2012 3:59:16 PM, stubs wrote:
"For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" Galations 5:14


My point, exactly.. NO ONE but Christ, has done this, or will do this..

Ex: Romans 7

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting[1]. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

When Paul heard love you neighbor as your self, he was made aware of his sin-- he does not do this. BUT, he realized, that the LAW was meant to expose our depravity..

Paradox, can you explain the difference between the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ in any way that doesn't wind up simply denying that Jesus Christ has a law?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
Posts: 5,094
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8/29/2012 11:06:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Paradox_7
Scriptures are very clear..
The Sheep go to heaven at Jesus' coming in judgment!
These people GIVE water the thirsty!! They go to heaven because they GIVE water to the thirsty! The LAW of the heart is simple.. ALL WHO LOVE go to heaven!
LOVE is a GIFT of self, it is GIVING of self! The Sheep GIVE, so they go to heaven!

Paradox_7 The Goats are people judged with faith ALONE! These protestants are judged to go to the Lake of Fire and Satan.. Satan has ZERO LOVE! These people GIVE NOTHING!!!
The LAW of love is GIVING OF SELF, the teaching of "faith ALONE" rejects LOVE!!!

Matthew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

God is LOVE!!!

The man with "faith ALONE" is Godless... Satan is Godless!
The man with "faith ALONE" is Hopeless.. Satan is also without all hope!
Paradox_7 Run don't walk for the man made teaching of salvation by faith ALONE!
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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8/30/2012 2:30:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 11:06:23 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Paradox_7
Scriptures are very clear..
The Sheep go to heaven at Jesus' coming in judgment!
These people GIVE water the thirsty!! They go to heaven because they GIVE water to the thirsty! The LAW of the heart is simple.. ALL WHO LOVE go to heaven!
LOVE is a GIFT of self, it is GIVING of self! The Sheep GIVE, so they go to heaven!

Paradox_7 The Goats are people judged with faith ALONE! These protestants are judged to go to the Lake of Fire and Satan.. Satan has ZERO LOVE! These people GIVE NOTHING!!!
The LAW of love is GIVING OF SELF, the teaching of "faith ALONE" rejects LOVE!!!


First of all, you've failed, yet again, at displaying the standard. You say those who give, are the sheep, yet there a millions of people of people who give and are not Christians: are these people sheep? How do you know if you've loved enough? Didn't even the pharisees give?

Second, you do not understand faith alone doctrine. We are justified by faith alone, but not by faith that is alone. You cannot have faith, and reject love, you cannot have faith, and deny that giving is good.. But you have it backwards.

We do not love because we are to be justified; We love because we are justified.

Matthew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

God is LOVE!!!

The man with "faith ALONE" is Godless... Satan is Godless!
The man with "faith ALONE" is Hopeless.. Satan is also without all hope!
Paradox_7 Run don't walk for the man made teaching of salvation by faith ALONE!


Once again, true faith produces love, but we are counted righteous by our faith, not by our love.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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8/30/2012 3:55:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 5:39:15 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/29/2012 4:30:44 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 8/29/2012 3:59:16 PM, stubs wrote:
"For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" Galations 5:14


My point, exactly.. NO ONE but Christ, has done this, or will do this..

Ex: Romans 7

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting[1]. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

When Paul heard love you neighbor as your self, he was made aware of his sin-- he does not do this. BUT, he realized, that the LAW was meant to expose our depravity..

Paradox, can you explain the difference between the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ in any way that doesn't wind up simply denying that Jesus Christ has a law?


Yes.

The Moasic law was intended to bring believers to Christ. And the Law of Christ is how we are to live and the process of 'sanctification' once we've realized our justification from Grace, through the holy spirit(faith), in Christ.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.