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My Case for Atheism

Microsuck
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8/31/2012 10:11:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://reasonalliance.blogspot.com...

Please give me a critique
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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8/31/2012 10:16:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
If I believe in God, then I am not an atheist.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Frederick53
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8/31/2012 10:20:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/31/2012 10:16:26 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
If I believe in God, then I am not an atheist.

THAT IS TRUE
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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8/31/2012 10:29:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Actually, I take issue with pretty much the entire section under "WHAT IS ATHEISM?".

I will provide specifics on request.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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8/31/2012 10:34:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/31/2012 10:29:54 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Actually, I take issue with pretty much the entire section under "WHAT IS ATHEISM?".

I will provide specifics on request.

Wait, never mind, I didn't read far enough down. I take issue with most of the part between "WHAT IS ATHEISM?" and "PART 1: WEAK ATHEISM".
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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8/31/2012 10:45:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/31/2012 10:34:03 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 8/31/2012 10:29:54 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Actually, I take issue with pretty much the entire section under "WHAT IS ATHEISM?".

I will provide specifics on request.

Wait, never mind, I didn't read far enough down. I take issue with most of the part between "WHAT IS ATHEISM?" and "PART 1: WEAK ATHEISM".

Ok. How do you define Atheism?
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/31/2012 10:53:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
1. "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."
Incorrect, Christians, if they believe in the Bible(If they dont they need to check if they are christian at all), do in fact believe in other deities. Just that those deities are not the creator God. They are from the Creator God and are claiming themselves to be that God, which they are not.
2. In other words, the Theist must present an intelligible and falsifiable description of "god."
The description is in the Bible. The only justifiable description that can be given.
3. Belief in God is normal and in case can not be extraordinary.
4. "One may say with one's lips: 'I believe that God is one, and also three,' - but no one can believe it, because the words have no sense."
I believe therefore this reasoning is false and nonsense.
TheAsylum
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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8/31/2012 11:12:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/31/2012 10:45:08 AM, Microsuck wrote:
Ok. How do you define Atheism?

Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a God.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
AshleysTrueLove
Posts: 7
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8/31/2012 11:13:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Problems:
Probabilty theory:
This sounds so commonsensical, doesn't it? But in fact it is demonstrably false. Probability theorists studying what sort of evidence it would take to establish a highly improbable event came to realize that if you just weigh the improbability of the event against the reliability of the testimony, we'd have to be sceptical of many commonly accepted claims. Rather what's crucial is the probability that we should have the evidence we do if the extraordinary event had not occurred.3 This can easily offset any improbability of the event itself. In the case of the resurrection of Jesus, for example, this means that we must also ask, "What is the probability of the facts of the empty tomb, the post-mortem appearances, and the origin of the disciples' belief in Jesus' resurrection, if the resurrection had not occurred?" It is highly, highly, highly, improbable that we should have that evidence if the resurrection had not occurred.
WLC
Theism explains theism
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." — C.S. Lewis
I got more.
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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8/31/2012 11:26:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/31/2012 11:12:01 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 8/31/2012 10:45:08 AM, Microsuck wrote:
Ok. How do you define Atheism?

Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a God.

Under your definition, if you do not believe in Zeus or Osiris, you are an Atheist because you deny that particular God's existence (which is exactly what Atheism is!)
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/31/2012 11:29:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/31/2012 11:26:58 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 8/31/2012 11:12:01 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 8/31/2012 10:45:08 AM, Microsuck wrote:
Ok. How do you define Atheism?

Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a God.

Under your definition, if you do not believe in Zeus or Osiris, you are an Atheist because you deny that particular God's existence (which is exactly what Atheism is!)

Though He doesnt....I think....I think he believes the Bible....The Bible calls Zeus....Baal Zephon.
TheAsylum
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/31/2012 12:20:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/31/2012 10:53:45 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
1. "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."
Incorrect, Christians, if they believe in the Bible(If they dont they need to check if they are christian at all), do in fact believe in other deities. Just that those deities are not the creator God. They are from the Creator God and are claiming themselves to be that God, which they are not.
2. In other words, the Theist must present an intelligible and falsifiable description of "god."
The description is in the Bible. The only justifiable description that can be given.
3. Belief in God is normal and in case can not be extraordinary.
4. "One may say with one's lips: 'I believe that God is one, and also three,' - but no one can believe it, because the words have no sense."
I believe therefore this reasoning is false and nonsense.

If you're going to use the Bible for proof of God just know that me, a muslim, is going to have a different perspective which kind of just helps to prove the OP's first point.
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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8/31/2012 12:23:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/31/2012 12:20:11 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/31/2012 10:53:45 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
1. "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."
Incorrect, Christians, if they believe in the Bible(If they dont they need to check if they are christian at all), do in fact believe in other deities. Just that those deities are not the creator God. They are from the Creator God and are claiming themselves to be that God, which they are not.
2. In other words, the Theist must present an intelligible and falsifiable description of "god."
The description is in the Bible. The only justifiable description that can be given.
3. Belief in God is normal and in case can not be extraordinary.
4. "One may say with one's lips: 'I believe that God is one, and also three,' - but no one can believe it, because the words have no sense."
I believe therefore this reasoning is false and nonsense.

If you're going to use the Bible for proof of God just know that me, a muslim, is going to have a different perspective which kind of just helps to prove the OP's first point.

Exactly. Why should I accept Islam/Christianity over all the other religions? http://reasonalliance.blogspot.com...
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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8/31/2012 1:08:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/31/2012 11:26:58 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 8/31/2012 11:12:01 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 8/31/2012 10:45:08 AM, Microsuck wrote:
Ok. How do you define Atheism?

Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a God.

Under your definition, if you do not believe in Zeus or Osiris, you are an Atheist because you deny that particular God's existence (which is exactly what Atheism is!)

If I believe any God exists, I naturally believe in the existence of a God, and am therefore not an atheist.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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8/31/2012 9:51:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/31/2012 1:08:11 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 8/31/2012 11:26:58 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 8/31/2012 11:12:01 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 8/31/2012 10:45:08 AM, Microsuck wrote:
Ok. How do you define Atheism?

Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a God.

Under your definition, if you do not believe in Zeus or Osiris, you are an Atheist because you deny that particular God's existence (which is exactly what Atheism is!)

If I believe any God exists, I naturally believe in the existence of a God, and am therefore not an atheist.

Exactly.

Believing in a God is the very definition of a theist. One cannot be both a theist, and an atheist at the same time. I could be mistaken, but I believe the law of excluded middle, or law of non-contradiction, may apply here.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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8/31/2012 10:43:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/31/2012 10:11:05 AM, Microsuck wrote:
http://reasonalliance.blogspot.com...

Please give me a critique

Let's look at a contradiction very early in the article. In the third paragraph in you say...

"From this standpoint, an atheist would simply be someone without a belief in God, not necessarily someone who believes that God does not exist."

But in the first paragraph, you had already said that atheism is the only justifiable position to hold.

"I am going to attempt to bring forth several cases that shows how Atheism is the only justifiable position to hold."

If not believing in God is the only justifiable position to hold, then you are saying that believing in God is unjustifiable. Yet you claim that you're not saying that God doesn't exist.

If you're not saying that He doesn't exist, then why is believing in Him unjustifiable?? You need to give on one side or the other.

You need to state that He doesn't exist, and that belief in Him is unjustifiable.

OR

You need to say that you don't know whether or not He exists, and remove the claim that believing in Him is unjustifiable.

Does that make any sense?? You can't have it both ways, that's not logical. You're being wishy-washy about your own belief, but firmly stating that our belief is unjustifiable. It doesn't work, and makes it appear as though you're just trying to avoid taking on any BoP.

What are your thoughts on that??
TheJackel
Posts: 508
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9/2/2012 4:50:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/31/2012 11:26:58 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 8/31/2012 11:12:01 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 8/31/2012 10:45:08 AM, Microsuck wrote:
Ok. How do you define Atheism?

Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a God.

Under your definition, if you do not believe in Zeus or Osiris, you are an Atheist because you deny that particular God's existence (which is exactly what Atheism is!)

Exactly.. Theists are walking contradictions. They are not true theists because if they were, the would believe all GOD's exist and would never hold the position of disbelief in any GOD concept. They must invalidate their own premise to cherry pick a concept of god. Thus Atheism is an inherent property of belief concerning GOD's and it begins at conception and birth. The concept of a GOD must be taught and learned.. The concept of Atheism does not as it's inherent in the state of no knowledge of the concept of GOD. It doesn't just rest with the later denial of when an assertion of is presented.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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9/2/2012 4:54:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 4:50:11 PM, TheJackel wrote:
Exactly.. Theists are walking contradictions. They are not true theists because if they were, the would believe all GOD's exist and would never hold the position of disbelief in any GOD concept. They must invalidate their own premise to cherry pick a concept of god. Thus Atheism is an inherent property of belief concerning GOD's and it begins at conception and birth. The concept of a GOD must be taught and learned.. The concept of Atheism does not as it's inherent in the state of no knowledge of the concept of GOD. It doesn't just rest with the later denial of when an assertion of is presented.

Hahaha for real?
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/3/2012 1:08:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 4:50:11 PM, TheJackel wrote:
At 8/31/2012 11:26:58 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 8/31/2012 11:12:01 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 8/31/2012 10:45:08 AM, Microsuck wrote:
Ok. How do you define Atheism?

Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a God.

Under your definition, if you do not believe in Zeus or Osiris, you are an Atheist because you deny that particular God's existence (which is exactly what Atheism is!)

Exactly.. Theists are walking contradictions. They are not true theists because if they were, the would believe all GOD's exist and would never hold the position of disbelief in any GOD concept. They must invalidate their own premise to cherry pick a concept of god. Thus Atheism is an inherent property of belief concerning GOD's and it begins at conception and birth. The concept of a GOD must be taught and learned.. The concept of Atheism does not as it's inherent in the state of no knowledge of the concept of GOD. It doesn't just rest with the later denial of when an assertion of is presented.

This one is definately sig-worthy.
TheJackel
Posts: 508
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9/3/2012 1:55:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
It is sig-worthy.. All people are born Atheists.., and it even manifests in the theist when they try to deny the existence of other supposed and asserted to be gods. Ever ask them how they established other GOD's as mythological? Especially when their idea of god directly derives from previous ideas they claim are mythical ect? That is really how silly modern day religion is.. It's nothing more than an evolved species of the same old mythologies, and imaginary friends.. Anyone that does any sort of research into comparative religion would know this ;/ ..
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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9/3/2012 2:16:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/31/2012 11:29:44 AM, stubs wrote:
That quote about how we are all atheist makes me laugh every time haha

You're only 99.9% atheist.
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stubs
Posts: 1,887
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9/3/2012 10:05:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 2:16:48 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 8/31/2012 11:29:44 AM, stubs wrote:
That quote about how we are all atheist makes me laugh every time haha

You're only 99.9% atheist.

The definition of an atheist is a person who maintains that there is no God. That is to say the sentence "God exists." expresses a false proposition. Therefore, I am not an atheist at all.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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9/4/2012 11:41:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 10:05:54 AM, stubs wrote:
At 9/3/2012 2:16:48 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 8/31/2012 11:29:44 AM, stubs wrote:
That quote about how we are all atheist makes me laugh every time haha

You're only 99.9% atheist.

The definition of an atheist is a person who maintains that there is no God. That is to say the sentence "God exists." expresses a false proposition. Therefore, I am not an atheist at all.

If an atheist is a person who maintains that there are no supernatural deities, and you reject 99.9% of supernatural deities, you are an atheist with regard to those 99.9% of supernatural deities. You dismiss all the other hundreds of thousands of Gods, and I just believe in one less God than you do.

The point being: you accept one God (and some other supernatural beings like demons, satan, angels, etc), yet you have no grounds for dismissing the hundreds of thousands of other Gods and accepting yours. I believe in one less God, so we aren't that far off from agreement.
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Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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9/4/2012 11:42:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 10:09:24 AM, Clash wrote:
Me? An Atheist? Come on.

You're only 99.9% atheist. I'm 100% because I believe in one less God than you.
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OllerupMand
Posts: 375
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9/4/2012 11:58:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/31/2012 12:23:30 PM, Microsuck wrote:
At 8/31/2012 12:20:11 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/31/2012 10:53:45 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
1. "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."
Incorrect, Christians, if they believe in the Bible(If they dont they need to check if they are christian at all), do in fact believe in other deities. Just that those deities are not the creator God. They are from the Creator God and are claiming themselves to be that God, which they are not.
2. In other words, the Theist must present an intelligible and falsifiable description of "god."
The description is in the Bible. The only justifiable description that can be given.
3. Belief in God is normal and in case can not be extraordinary.
4. "One may say with one's lips: 'I believe that God is one, and also three,' - but no one can believe it, because the words have no sense."
I believe therefore this reasoning is false and nonsense.

If you're going to use the Bible for proof of God just know that me, a muslim, is going to have a different perspective which kind of just helps to prove the OP's first point.

Exactly. Why should I accept Islam/Christianity over all the other religions? http://reasonalliance.blogspot.com...

You shouldn't! Join Forn Siðr! We have more mead, ale and soda!

Also link is broken.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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9/4/2012 1:35:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 11:41:45 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/3/2012 10:05:54 AM, stubs wrote:
At 9/3/2012 2:16:48 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 8/31/2012 11:29:44 AM, stubs wrote:
That quote about how we are all atheist makes me laugh every time haha

You're only 99.9% atheist.

The definition of an atheist is a person who maintains that there is no God. That is to say the sentence "God exists." expresses a false proposition. Therefore, I am not an atheist at all.

If an atheist is a person who maintains that there are no supernatural deities, and you reject 99.9% of supernatural deities, you are an atheist with regard to those 99.9% of supernatural deities. You dismiss all the other hundreds of thousands of Gods, and I just believe in one less God than you do.

The point being: you accept one God (and some other supernatural beings like demons, satan, angels, etc), yet you have no grounds for dismissing the hundreds of thousands of other Gods and accepting yours. I believe in one less God, so we aren't that far off from agreement.

Of course I have grounds for dismissing other Gods. William Lane Craig would often appeal to Occams Razor because if only one maximally great being is necessary than it is most likely that rather than a plethora of Gods. I also would hold to that statement. To be an atheist you need to believe the statement "God exists." expresses a false proposition. I believe the statement "God exists." is true so I am 0% an atheist.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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9/4/2012 2:11:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 11:42:27 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/3/2012 10:09:24 AM, Clash wrote:
Me? An Atheist? Come on.

You're only 99.9% atheist. I'm 100% because I believe in one less God than you.

I believe all other religions God's are real.. However, the God of the bible, is the 1 True God.

I'm 0% atheist, and you are only about 17% atheist.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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9/4/2012 2:28:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 2:11:11 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 9/4/2012 11:42:27 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/3/2012 10:09:24 AM, Clash wrote:
Me? An Atheist? Come on.

You're only 99.9% atheist. I'm 0% because I believe in Allah!

I believe all other religions God's are real.. However, the God of the bible, is the 1 True God.

I'm 0% atheist, and you are only about 17% atheist.

I'm Muslim. So I'm not atheist at all.
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