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Jehovah's Witnesses

DavidJames1
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9/4/2012 8:25:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Almost everyone has heard of them.
Many have had them knocking on their door.
Some have had a few conversations with them!

Yet, many are unaware as to what exactly they believe or why they believe what they do.

Is there anything you would like to know about this religion?
annanicole
Posts: 19,792
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9/4/2012 9:28:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 8:25:20 AM, DavidJames1 wrote:
Almost everyone has heard of them.
Many have had them knocking on their door.
Some have had a few conversations with them!

Yet, many are unaware as to what exactly they believe or why they believe what they do.

Is there anything you would like to know about this religion?

Yeah. I would like to know why they insist upon translating John 1: 1 as they do. The verse literally reads "and God was the Word". Also, I would like to know - if they are following any Bible at all - exactly where the church was called a Kingdom Hall and Christians were called Jehovah's Witnesses. Thanks.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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9/4/2012 9:33:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 8:25:20 AM, DavidJames1 wrote:
Almost everyone has heard of them.
Many have had them knocking on their door.
Some have had a few conversations with them!

Yet, many are unaware as to what exactly they believe or why they believe what they do.

Is there anything you would like to know about this religion?

Why can't they accurately predict the second coming?
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
annanicole
Posts: 19,792
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9/4/2012 9:46:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 9:33:52 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 9/4/2012 8:25:20 AM, DavidJames1 wrote:
Almost everyone has heard of them.
Many have had them knocking on their door.
Some have had a few conversations with them!

Yet, many are unaware as to what exactly they believe or why they believe what they do.

Is there anything you would like to know about this religion?

Why can't they accurately predict the second coming?

Well, they only missed it about 5 times before they quit trying. "Millions Now Living Will Never Die", you know!
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
DavidJames1
Posts: 122
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9/4/2012 10:07:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 9:28:16 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/4/2012 8:25:20 AM, DavidJames1 wrote:
Almost everyone has heard of them.
Many have had them knocking on their door.
Some have had a few conversations with them!

Yet, many are unaware as to what exactly they believe or why they believe what they do.

Is there anything you would like to know about this religion?

Yeah. I would like to know why they insist upon translating John 1: 1 as they do. The verse literally reads "and God was the Word". Also, I would like to know - if they are following any Bible at all - exactly where the church was called a Kingdom Hall and Christians were called Jehovah's Witnesses. Thanks.

I am just gathering info on the whole John 1:1 debacle for you. (Google John 1:1 and J D Beduhn, for a scholars who is not a Witness, commentary on translating John 1:1).

As for your other queries:

1. Kingdom Hall - At our Kingdom Halls, we don't haveany rituals, or images, etc, but rather, this is a hall that we attend to learn about the kingdom! We also go to the Kingdom Hall fro wholesome association with other Witnesses. This is where we can really experience true christian love! John 13:34, 35.

2. We believe we represent the true God. His personal name He revealed in the bible nearly 7'000 times is Jehovah.
A witness is someone who proclaims truths or views of which he is convinced

Thus Jehovah's Witnesses are people who teach the truth abobut the True God, Jehovah. As is found in His inspired book.

Hope this helps. Enjoy your day!
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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9/4/2012 10:15:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Do you believe a Christian can understand the bible by reading it for themselves through the power of the Holy Spirit or does someone have to do it for a person like me?
Dogknox
Posts: 5,090
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9/4/2012 10:57:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Jehovah's Witnesses insist that Jesus was Michael the archangel before his coming to earth.

YET...1 Thessalonians 4:16, tells us the Lord Jesus is described as descending from heaven at the sound of the archangel's voice. The JWs' New World Translation of the Bible reads, " . . . the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice."
LOGIC says.. The Lord Jesus descends "with an archangel's voice" does not automatically mean that it is his own voice spoken of.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 does NOT mean Jesus is an angel; 1 Thessalonians 4:16 is simply saying that, an archangel's voice will accompany the Lord's descent from heaven!

Hebrews 1:6 says: "For example, to which of the angels did he [God] ever say: 'You are my son; I, today, I have become your father'?" (New World Translation).
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

The answer to the question in Hebrews 1:6 is, of course, "none."

If God never called an angel his Son, then Michael--who is an angel--cannot be the Son.

The JW's are the spawn of Satan, they are a man made church, never heard of, for the first eighteen hundred years!!

Dogknox
annanicole
Posts: 19,792
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9/4/2012 11:50:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 10:07:33 AM, DavidJames1 wrote:
At 9/4/2012 9:28:16 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/4/2012 8:25:20 AM, DavidJames1 wrote:
Almost everyone has heard of them.
Many have had them knocking on their door.
Some have had a few conversations with them!

Yet, many are unaware as to what exactly they believe or why they believe what they do.

Is there anything you would like to know about this religion?

Yeah. I would like to know why they insist upon translating John 1: 1 as they do. The verse literally reads "and God was the Word". Also, I would like to know - if they are following any Bible at all - exactly where the church was called a Kingdom Hall and Christians were called Jehovah's Witnesses. Thanks.

I am just gathering info on the whole John 1:1 debacle for you. (Google John 1:1 and J D Beduhn, for a scholars who is not a Witness, commentary on translating John 1:1).

I already have. The vast - in fact, the overwhelming majority - of Greek scholars believe that " ... and the Word was God" or "... and God was the Word" is patently correct. Not only that, every standard translation (KJV, ASV, RSV, NIV, ESV) renders it the same way.

As for your other queries:

1. Kingdom Hall - At our Kingdom Halls, we don't haveany rituals, or images, etc, but rather, this is a hall that we attend to learn about the kingdom! We also go to the Kingdom Hall fro wholesome association with other Witnesses. This is where we can really experience true christian love! John 13:34, 35.

I asked where in the Bible is the building called a "Kingdom Hall". I didn't particularly ask what you did there.

2. We believe we represent the true God.

OK, but where does the Bible tell you to call yourself "Jehovah's Witnesses"?

His personal name He revealed in the bible nearly 7'000 times is Jehovah.

OK

A witness is someone who proclaims truths or views of which he is convinced

I didn't ask what a "witness" is: I'm asking where Christians ever called themselves "Jehovah's Witnesses".

Thus Jehovah's Witnesses are people who teach the truth abobut the True God, Jehovah. As is found in His inspired book.

Again, I didn't ask what you did or what you taught. As I see it, New Testament Christians were called .... Christians. They were also called disciples. Did someone just make up a name? If so, why don't you go by the Bible:

Speak where the Bible speaks
Be silent where the Bible is silent
Call Bible things by Bible names
Do Bible things in Bible ways

Are you doing #3 above?

Hope this helps. Enjoy your day!
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
DavidJames1
Posts: 122
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9/4/2012 11:53:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 11:50:11 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/4/2012 10:07:33 AM, DavidJames1 wrote:
At 9/4/2012 9:28:16 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/4/2012 8:25:20 AM, DavidJames1 wrote:
Almost everyone has heard of them.
Many have had them knocking on their door.
Some have had a few conversations with them!

Yet, many are unaware as to what exactly they believe or why they believe what they do.

Is there anything you would like to know about this religion?

Yeah. I would like to know why they insist upon translating John 1: 1 as they do. The verse literally reads "and God was the Word". Also, I would like to know - if they are following any Bible at all - exactly where the church was called a Kingdom Hall and Christians were called Jehovah's Witnesses. Thanks.

I am just gathering info on the whole John 1:1 debacle for you. (Google John 1:1 and J D Beduhn, for a scholars who is not a Witness, commentary on translating John 1:1).

I already have. The vast - in fact, the overwhelming majority - of Greek scholars believe that " ... and the Word was God" or "... and God was the Word" is patently correct. Not only that, every standard translation (KJV, ASV, RSV, NIV, ESV) renders it the same way.

As for your other queries:

1. Kingdom Hall - At our Kingdom Halls, we don't haveany rituals, or images, etc, but rather, this is a hall that we attend to learn about the kingdom! We also go to the Kingdom Hall fro wholesome association with other Witnesses. This is where we can really experience true christian love! John 13:34, 35.

I asked where in the Bible is the building called a "Kingdom Hall". I didn't particularly ask what you did there.

2. We believe we represent the true God.

OK, but where does the Bible tell you to call yourself "Jehovah's Witnesses"?

His personal name He revealed in the bible nearly 7'000 times is Jehovah.

OK

A witness is someone who proclaims truths or views of which he is convinced

I didn't ask what a "witness" is: I'm asking where Christians ever called themselves "Jehovah's Witnesses".

Thus Jehovah's Witnesses are people who teach the truth abobut the True God, Jehovah. As is found in His inspired book.

Again, I didn't ask what you did or what you taught. As I see it, New Testament Christians were called .... Christians. They were also called disciples. Did someone just make up a name? If so, why don't you go by the Bible:

Speak where the Bible speaks
Be silent where the Bible is silent
Call Bible things by Bible names
Do Bible things in Bible ways

Are you doing #3 above?

Hope this helps. Enjoy your day!

Sorry, I forgot to quote Isaiah 43:10-12 (I think) I think that is where they get it from. Having a name other than Christian helps to distinguish us from all other religions, which we certainly want!
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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9/4/2012 11:55:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 10:57:58 AM, Dogknox wrote:
The Jehovah's Witnesses insist that Jesus was Michael the archangel before his coming to earth.

YET...1 Thessalonians 4:16, tells us the Lord Jesus is described as descending from heaven at the sound of the archangel's voice. The JWs' New World Translation of the Bible reads, " . . . the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice."
LOGIC says.. The Lord Jesus descends "with an archangel's voice" does not automatically mean that it is his own voice spoken of.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 does NOT mean Jesus is an angel; 1 Thessalonians 4:16 is simply saying that, an archangel's voice will accompany the Lord's descent from heaven!

Hebrews 1:6 says: "For example, to which of the angels did he [God] ever say: 'You are my son; I, today, I have become your father'?" (New World Translation).
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

The answer to the question in Hebrews 1:6 is, of course, "none."

If God never called an angel his Son, then Michael--who is an angel--cannot be the Son.

The JW's are the spawn of Satan, they are a man made church, never heard of, for the first eighteen hundred years!!

Dogknox

Oh, how the Christians love one another!
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AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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9/4/2012 11:58:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Question: Do JWs insist that Jesus was Michael the Archangel before coming to Earth?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
DavidJames1
Posts: 122
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9/4/2012 12:04:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 10:15:44 AM, stubs wrote:
Do you believe a Christian can understand the bible by reading it for themselves through the power of the Holy Spirit or does someone have to do it for a person like me?

The bible is a vast book! Not every single verse has a bearing on everything. Only through reading the whole bible, and seeing the harmonious picture, can one truly understand it. For instance, the question: What happens to us when we die? is dealt with in Genesis, Psalms, Job, Ecclesiastes, Luke, Acts (and probably loads of other books I haven'te mentioned) and so only after reading all the scriptures that deal with the subject can one come to a conclusion on a certain matter. One verse might say something that suggests something, but when compared to the other verses seems like a contradiction. (By the way, the bible does not contradict itself, One has to really analyze the context of what has been written, why it was written or said, and one should look at the original languages and translation).
This is a lot of research to do! A lot of reading!
Fortunately, there have always been those who want to understand the bible, and they have written extensively on the different subjects.

If you don't want to go to a specific religious group to learn more, can I suggest that you buy a bible concordance. This way, you can easier look up each scripture that contains a certain word, and come to a conclusion as to waht the bible teaches on certain subjects!

If you don't mind looking at a groups reasoning on bible topics and verses, try this website: www.jw.org
Hope this helped!
annanicole
Posts: 19,792
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9/4/2012 12:39:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 11:53:34 AM, DavidJames1 wrote:
At 9/4/2012 11:50:11 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/4/2012 10:07:33 AM, DavidJames1 wrote:
At 9/4/2012 9:28:16 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/4/2012 8:25:20 AM, DavidJames1 wrote:
Almost everyone has heard of them.
Many have had them knocking on their door.
Some have had a few conversations with them!

Yet, many are unaware as to what exactly they believe or why they believe what they do.

Is there anything you would like to know about this religion?

Yeah. I would like to know why they insist upon translating John 1: 1 as they do. The verse literally reads "and God was the Word". Also, I would like to know - if they are following any Bible at all - exactly where the church was called a Kingdom Hall and Christians were called Jehovah's Witnesses. Thanks.

I am just gathering info on the whole John 1:1 debacle for you. (Google John 1:1 and J D Beduhn, for a scholars who is not a Witness, commentary on translating John 1:1).

I already have. The vast - in fact, the overwhelming majority - of Greek scholars believe that " ... and the Word was God" or "... and God was the Word" is patently correct. Not only that, every standard translation (KJV, ASV, RSV, NIV, ESV) renders it the same way.

As for your other queries:

1. Kingdom Hall - At our Kingdom Halls, we don't haveany rituals, or images, etc, but rather, this is a hall that we attend to learn about the kingdom! We also go to the Kingdom Hall fro wholesome association with other Witnesses. This is where we can really experience true christian love! John 13:34, 35.

I asked where in the Bible is the building called a "Kingdom Hall". I didn't particularly ask what you did there.

2. We believe we represent the true God.

OK, but where does the Bible tell you to call yourself "Jehovah's Witnesses"?

His personal name He revealed in the bible nearly 7'000 times is Jehovah.

OK

A witness is someone who proclaims truths or views of which he is convinced

I didn't ask what a "witness" is: I'm asking where Christians ever called themselves "Jehovah's Witnesses".

Thus Jehovah's Witnesses are people who teach the truth abobut the True God, Jehovah. As is found in His inspired book.

Again, I didn't ask what you did or what you taught. As I see it, New Testament Christians were called .... Christians. They were also called disciples. Did someone just make up a name? If so, why don't you go by the Bible:

Speak where the Bible speaks
Be silent where the Bible is silent
Call Bible things by Bible names
Do Bible things in Bible ways

Are you doing #3 above?

Hope this helps. Enjoy your day!

Sorry, I forgot to quote Isaiah 43:10-12 (I think) I think that is where they get it from. Having a name other than Christian helps to distinguish us from all other religions, which we certainly want!

You got the name of the church which Jesus built from Isaiah? That's a stretch: there was no Christian church then, nor was there for hundreds of years.

"Having a name other than Christian helps to distinguish us from all other religions"

Yep, and the same could be said for Moslems, Buddhists, and Holy Rollers. There is no such thing in the Bible as "Jehovah's Witnesses." None at all.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
Posts: 5,090
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9/4/2012 2:13:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 11:55:26 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/4/2012 10:57:58 AM, Dogknox wrote:
The Jehovah's Witnesses insist that Jesus was Michael the archangel before his coming to earth.

YET...1 Thessalonians 4:16, tells us the Lord Jesus is described as descending from heaven at the sound of the archangel's voice. The JWs' New World Translation of the Bible reads, " . . . the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice."
LOGIC says.. The Lord Jesus descends "with an archangel's voice" does not automatically mean that it is his own voice spoken of.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 does NOT mean Jesus is an angel; 1 Thessalonians 4:16 is simply saying that, an archangel's voice will accompany the Lord's descent from heaven!

Hebrews 1:6 says: "For example, to which of the angels did he [God] ever say: 'You are my son; I, today, I have become your father'?" (New World Translation).
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

The answer to the question in Hebrews 1:6 is, of course, "none."

If God never called an angel his Son, then Michael--who is an angel--cannot be the Son.

The JW's are the spawn of Satan, they are a man made church, never heard of, for the first eighteen hundred years!!

Dogknox

Oh, how the Christians love one another!

Wallstreetatheist Christians believe the scriptures!
The JW's place their faith in a different book other then the bible.
Logic tells you, they are NOT Christian!

Christians believe the scriptures.. Jesus' words!
Believers do NOT reject Jesus' words.. JW's reject Jesus' words!

Jesus said.. "I am with you ALWAYS, even to the end of the world!"
Wallstreetatheist There were NO JW's when Jesus made this statement (above).. thus Jesus is NOT, he cannot be with any "JW's"! LOGIC tells you I am right!

Jesus formed only one CHURCH, this one CHURCH is the only Church Jesus is "always with"! Jesus is NOT with any man made churches, he did not form any man made churches!
All the man made churches think they must "RESTORE" Jesus' church. All must reject; "I am with you ALWAYS, even to the end of the world!"
All man made churches must reject the scriptures, to think they must restore Jesus' body back to him!

Dogknox
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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9/4/2012 3:50:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 2:13:46 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/4/2012 11:55:26 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/4/2012 10:57:58 AM, Dogknox wrote:
The Jehovah's Witnesses insist that Jesus was Michael the archangel before his coming to earth.

YET...1 Thessalonians 4:16, tells us the Lord Jesus is described as descending from heaven at the sound of the archangel's voice. The JWs' New World Translation of the Bible reads, " . . . the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice."
LOGIC says.. The Lord Jesus descends "with an archangel's voice" does not automatically mean that it is his own voice spoken of.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 does NOT mean Jesus is an angel; 1 Thessalonians 4:16 is simply saying that, an archangel's voice will accompany the Lord's descent from heaven!

Hebrews 1:6 says: "For example, to which of the angels did he [God] ever say: 'You are my son; I, today, I have become your father'?" (New World Translation).
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

The answer to the question in Hebrews 1:6 is, of course, "none."

If God never called an angel his Son, then Michael--who is an angel--cannot be the Son.

The JW's are the spawn of Satan, they are a man made church, never heard of, for the first eighteen hundred years!!

Dogknox

Oh, how the Christians love one another!

Wallstreetatheist Christians believe the scriptures!
The JW's place their faith in a different book other then the bible.
Logic tells you, they are NOT Christian!

Christians believe the scriptures.. Jesus' words!
Believers do NOT reject Jesus' words.. JW's reject Jesus' words!

Jesus said.. "I am with you ALWAYS, even to the end of the world!"
Wallstreetatheist There were NO JW's when Jesus made this statement (above).. thus Jesus is NOT, he cannot be with any "JW's"! LOGIC tells you I am right!

Jesus formed only one CHURCH, this one CHURCH is the only Church Jesus is "always with"! Jesus is NOT with any man made churches, he did not form any man made churches!
All the man made churches think they must "RESTORE" Jesus' church. All must reject; "I am with you ALWAYS, even to the end of the world!"
All man made churches must reject the scriptures, to think they must restore Jesus' body back to him!

Dogknox

Mormonism is Jesus' bride. The Bible said so.
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imabench
Posts: 21,230
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9/4/2012 4:48:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why is it that A JW will never accept a blood transfusion? I have always wondered this but never got around to asking an actual JW why
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DavidJames1
Posts: 122
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9/4/2012 5:39:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 4:48:19 PM, imabench wrote:
Why is it that A JW will never accept a blood transfusion? I have always wondered this but never got around to asking an actual JW why

Hi, Thank you for your question!

The primary reason is that it is a biblical command. At Acts 15:28, 29 it says to abstain from blood. This referred to not eating blood (or meat of animals that were strangled and were not properly bled), but the reasonig stands that if told by the doctor to abstain from alcohol, you would not go on to inject it into your veins!

God's view on blood can be seen right through the bible.

God's first command regarding blood can be found in Genesis 9. After the flood, Noah and his family and subsequent children were told that they could now use animals as a source of food. In verse 4 it says that they were only to eat the flesh, its blood they were not to eat.

God then gave the Israelites the Mosaic Law. At Leviticus 17:13-16 it also, in essence, says that you must not eat the blood of animals. It also adds that God says that the soul of the flesh is in the blood, this in recognition of blood's lifegiving qualities! Something sacred to God.

Jesus sacrifice fulfilled the Mosaic Law, and thus we are no longer under it. But the first century Christians had commands to. Some are found in Acts 15:28, 29 as mentioned above. There, eating blood is listed with idolatry and fornication, thus showing how serious this really is.

There are many benefits to refusing blood transfusions, too! Diseases can be transfused right into your body in the blood, for example, I think its HIV that has an indetectable period, and thus would not be picked up when the blood is analyzed!
Major, major surgeries can be successfully performed without using transfusions.
The time it takes for one to get better after an operation has been quicker in those that refuse blood. My nan is an example of this, where after a hip op, she was out of hospital within a week, whereas the lady in the adjacent bed took 3 weeks!
Surgeons seem to be more careful so as not to lose blood when operating!
Many doctors and surgeons are recognizing now the benefits of bloodless surgery and are doing it more extensively.
There are bloodless alternatives that can be used in the same cases where a blood transfusion is normally given.
Transfused blood is initially seen as an alien substance and your body, and so it is fought by the body, similar to an organ transplant, this puts the body under more stress when that is the opposite of what is needed!

Hope this answers your question!
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/4/2012 5:42:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Apparently JW's believe only 100,000 people will be in heaven. Considering there's at least a few million JW's in the world why do they bother trying to convert people, considering all the slots in heaven are likely already filled?
DavidJames1
Posts: 122
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9/4/2012 5:44:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 11:58:03 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Question: Do JWs insist that Jesus was Michael the Archangel before coming to Earth?

This is an extract from one of the Witnesses publications:

(Mi′cha·el) [Who Is Like God?].
1. The only holy angel other than Gabriel named in the Bible, and the only one called "archangel." (Jude 9) The first occurrence of the name is in the tenth chapter of Daniel, where Michael is described as "one of the foremost princes"; he came to the aid of a lesser angel who was opposed by "the prince of the royal realm of Persia." Michael was called "the prince of [Daniel's] people," "the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of [Daniel's] people." (Da 10:13, 20, 21; 12:1) This points to Michael as the angel who led the Israelites through the wilderness. (Ex 23:20, 21, 23; 32:34; 33:2) Lending support to this conclusion is the fact that "Michael the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses' body."—Jude 9.
Scriptural evidence indicates that the name Michael applied to God's Son before he left heaven to become Jesus Christ and also after his return. Michael is the only one said to be "the archangel," meaning "chief angel," or "principal angel." The term occurs in the Bible only in the singular. This seems to imply that there is but one whom God has designated chief, or head, of the angelic host. At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 the voice of the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ is described as being that of an archangel, suggesting that he is, in fact, himself the archangel. This text depicts him as descending from heaven with "a commanding call." It is only logical, therefore, that the voice expressing this commanding call be described by a word that would not diminish or detract from the great authority that Christ Jesus now has as King of kings and Lord of lords. (Mt 28:18; Re 17:14) If the designation "archangel" applied, not to Jesus Christ, but to other angels, then the reference to "an archangel's voice" would not be appropriate. In that case it would be describing a voice of lesser authority than that of the Son of God.
There are also other correspondencies establishing that Michael is actually the Son of God. Daniel, after making the first reference to Michael (Da 10:13), recorded a prophecy reaching down to "the time of the end" (Da 11:40) and then stated: "And during that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of [Daniel's] people." (Da 12:1) Michael's ‘standing up' was to be associated with "a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time." (Da 12:1) In Daniel's prophecy, ‘standing up' frequently refers to the action of a king, either taking up his royal power or acting effectively in his capacity as king. (Da 11:2-4, 7, 16b, 20, 21) This supports the conclusion that Michael is Jesus Christ, since Jesus is Jehovah's appointed King, commissioned to destroy all the nations at Har–Magedon.—Re 11:15; 16:14-16.
The book of Revelation (12:7, 10, 12) specifically mentions Michael in connection with the establishment of God's Kingdom and links this event with trouble for the earth: "And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled. And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: ‘Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down . . . On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea.'" Jesus Christ is later depicted as leading the heavenly armies in war against the nations of the earth. (Re 19:11-16) This would mean a period of distress for them, which would logically be included in the "time of distress" that is associated with Michael's standing up. (Da 12:1) Since the Son of God is to fight the nations, it is only reasonable that he was the one who with his angels earlier battled against the superhuman dragon, Satan the Devil, and his angels.
In his prehuman existence Jesus was called "the Word." (Joh 1:1) He also had the personal name Michael. By retaining the name Jesus after his resurrection (Ac 9:5), "the Word" shows that he is identical with the Son of God on earth. His resuming his heavenly name Michael and his title (or name) "The Word of God" (Re 19:13) ties him in with his prehuman existence. The very name Michael, asking as it does, "Who Is Like God?" points to the fact that Jehovah God is without like, or equal, and that Michael his archangel is his great Champion or Vindicator.

Hope this answers you question!
DavidJames1
Posts: 122
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9/4/2012 5:53:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 5:42:47 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Apparently JW's believe only 100,000 people will be in heaven. Considering there's at least a few million JW's in the world why do they bother trying to convert people, considering all the slots in heaven are likely already filled?

Hi,
In fact, we believe that 144'000 people will be going to heaven. Rev 14:1-4. Rev 7:4.
These ones that are chosen from people on earth have a special role! This can be seen in Rev 5:9, 10. They are going to be kings over the earth. So it stands to reason that they are going to need people to rule over. Who are they?
Rev 7:9, 10 speaks about a great crowd, which no man is able to number from every tribe and nation.
Psalms 37:9-11, 29. Proverbs 2:21, 22. Rev 21:1-5. The verses on the left are a few that speak about the meek ones possessing the earth. Living in the abundance of peace. living forever upon it!

This is what is prayed for all the time!

Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

Hope this helps
annanicole
Posts: 19,792
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9/4/2012 6:25:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 5:53:54 PM, DavidJames1 wrote:
At 9/4/2012 5:42:47 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Apparently JW's believe only 100,000 people will be in heaven. Considering there's at least a few million JW's in the world why do they bother trying to convert people, considering all the slots in heaven are likely already filled?

Hi,
In fact, we believe that 144'000 people will be going to heaven. Rev 14:1-4. Rev 7:4.
These ones that are chosen from people on earth have a special role! This can be seen in Rev 5:9, 10. They are going to be kings over the earth. So it stands to reason that they are going to need people to rule over. Who are they?
Rev 7:9, 10 speaks about a great crowd, which no man is able to number from every tribe and nation.
Psalms 37:9-11, 29. Proverbs 2:21, 22. Rev 21:1-5. The verses on the left are a few that speak about the meek ones possessing the earth. Living in the abundance of peace. living forever upon it!

This is what is prayed for all the time!

Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

Hope this helps

The kingdom has already come: it has been here for nearly 2,000 years. You're still waiting on it?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
DavidJames1
Posts: 122
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9/4/2012 6:27:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 6:25:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/4/2012 5:53:54 PM, DavidJames1 wrote:
At 9/4/2012 5:42:47 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Apparently JW's believe only 100,000 people will be in heaven. Considering there's at least a few million JW's in the world why do they bother trying to convert people, considering all the slots in heaven are likely already filled?

Hi,
In fact, we believe that 144'000 people will be going to heaven. Rev 14:1-4. Rev 7:4.
These ones that are chosen from people on earth have a special role! This can be seen in Rev 5:9, 10. They are going to be kings over the earth. So it stands to reason that they are going to need people to rule over. Who are they?
Rev 7:9, 10 speaks about a great crowd, which no man is able to number from every tribe and nation.
Psalms 37:9-11, 29. Proverbs 2:21, 22. Rev 21:1-5. The verses on the left are a few that speak about the meek ones possessing the earth. Living in the abundance of peace. living forever upon it!

This is what is prayed for all the time!

Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

Hope this helps

The kingdom has already come: it has been here for nearly 2,000 years. You're still waiting on it?

Yes, the kingdom has come!
But it is still accomplishing its purpose.
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
I am sure that you will agree that the state of this awful world is not God's will!
annanicole
Posts: 19,792
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9/4/2012 6:32:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 6:27:50 PM, DavidJames1 wrote:
At 9/4/2012 6:25:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/4/2012 5:53:54 PM, DavidJames1 wrote:
At 9/4/2012 5:42:47 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Apparently JW's believe only 100,000 people will be in heaven. Considering there's at least a few million JW's in the world why do they bother trying to convert people, considering all the slots in heaven are likely already filled?

Hi,
In fact, we believe that 144'000 people will be going to heaven. Rev 14:1-4. Rev 7:4.
These ones that are chosen from people on earth have a special role! This can be seen in Rev 5:9, 10. They are going to be kings over the earth. So it stands to reason that they are going to need people to rule over. Who are they?
Rev 7:9, 10 speaks about a great crowd, which no man is able to number from every tribe and nation.
Psalms 37:9-11, 29. Proverbs 2:21, 22. Rev 21:1-5. The verses on the left are a few that speak about the meek ones possessing the earth. Living in the abundance of peace. living forever upon it!

This is what is prayed for all the time!

Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

Hope this helps

The kingdom has already come: it has been here for nearly 2,000 years. You're still waiting on it?

Yes, the kingdom has come!
But it is still accomplishing its purpose.
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
I am sure that you will agree that the state of this awful world is not God's will!

I will say that the kingdom as prophesied by Daniel and others, announced as "at hand" by John, again heralded as "nigh unto you" and "at hand" by Jesus has come - and came on Pentecost. There is none other. One was promised, one was announced, one was heralded, and one came. There isn't a second.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
Posts: 5,090
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9/4/2012 7:22:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 3:50:10 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/4/2012 2:13:46 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/4/2012 11:55:26 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/4/2012 10:57:58 AM, Dogknox wrote:
The Jehovah's Witnesses insist that Jesus was Michael the archangel before his coming to earth.

YET...1 Thessalonians 4:16, tells us the Lord Jesus is described as descending from heaven at the sound of the archangel's voice. The JWs' New World Translation of the Bible reads, " . . . the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice."
LOGIC says.. The Lord Jesus descends "with an archangel's voice" does not automatically mean that it is his own voice spoken of.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 does NOT mean Jesus is an angel; 1 Thessalonians 4:16 is simply saying that, an archangel's voice will accompany the Lord's descent from heaven!

Hebrews 1:6 says: "For example, to which of the angels did he [God] ever say: 'You are my son; I, today, I have become your father'?" (New World Translation).
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

The answer to the question in Hebrews 1:6 is, of course, "none."

If God never called an angel his Son, then Michael--who is an angel--cannot be the Son.

The JW's are the spawn of Satan, they are a man made church, never heard of, for the first eighteen hundred years!!

Dogknox

Oh, how the Christians love one another!

Wallstreetatheist Christians believe the scriptures!
The JW's place their faith in a different book other then the bible.
Logic tells you, they are NOT Christian!

Christians believe the scriptures.. Jesus' words!
Believers do NOT reject Jesus' words.. JW's reject Jesus' words!

Jesus said.. "I am with you ALWAYS, even to the end of the world!"
Wallstreetatheist There were NO JW's when Jesus made this statement (above).. thus Jesus is NOT, he cannot be with any "JW's"! LOGIC tells you I am right!

Jesus formed only one CHURCH, this one CHURCH is the only Church Jesus is "always with"! Jesus is NOT with any man made churches, he did not form any man made churches!
All the man made churches think they must "RESTORE" Jesus' church. All must reject; "I am with you ALWAYS, even to the end of the world!"
All man made churches must reject the scriptures, to think they must restore Jesus' body back to him!

Dogknox

You said.. Mormonism is Jesus' bride. The Bible said so.
Okay I will bite.. Give me the verse, please!
Dogknox
annanicole
Posts: 19,792
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9/4/2012 9:17:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"Okay I will bite.. Give me the verse, please!"

We don't need the verse, DogKnox. It's not "sciptures alone", remember? We'll just take Imposter Joe's word for it. Isn't that silly? Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Now make that application to many of your own defenses of Roman Catholic practices.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
DavidJames1
Posts: 122
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9/5/2012 1:57:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 6:32:36 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/4/2012 6:27:50 PM, DavidJames1 wrote:
At 9/4/2012 6:25:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/4/2012 5:53:54 PM, DavidJames1 wrote:
At 9/4/2012 5:42:47 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Apparently JW's believe only 100,000 people will be in heaven. Considering there's at least a few million JW's in the world why do they bother trying to convert people, considering all the slots in heaven are likely already filled?

Hi,
In fact, we believe that 144'000 people will be going to heaven. Rev 14:1-4. Rev 7:4.
These ones that are chosen from people on earth have a special role! This can be seen in Rev 5:9, 10. They are going to be kings over the earth. So it stands to reason that they are going to need people to rule over. Who are they?
Rev 7:9, 10 speaks about a great crowd, which no man is able to number from every tribe and nation.
Psalms 37:9-11, 29. Proverbs 2:21, 22. Rev 21:1-5. The verses on the left are a few that speak about the meek ones possessing the earth. Living in the abundance of peace. living forever upon it!

This is what is prayed for all the time!

Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

Hope this helps

The kingdom has already come: it has been here for nearly 2,000 years. You're still waiting on it?

Yes, the kingdom has come!
But it is still accomplishing its purpose.
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
I am sure that you will agree that the state of this awful world is not God's will!

I will say that the kingdom as prophesied by Daniel and others, announced as "at hand" by John, again heralded as "nigh unto you" and "at hand" by Jesus has come - and came on Pentecost. There is none other One was promised, one was announced, one was heralded, and one came. There isn't a second.

Most certainly, the bible only speaks of one Kingdom!

But I don't agree that it was set up at Pentecost. What are the reasons you believe that it was? (I right this in a sincere tone, well, I hope it comes across that way. I am not here to fight!)
DavidJames1
Posts: 122
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9/5/2012 3:56:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 9:28:16 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/4/2012 8:25:20 AM, DavidJames1 wrote:
Almost everyone has heard of them.
Many have had them knocking on their door.
Some have had a few conversations with them!

Yet, many are unaware as to what exactly they believe or why they believe what they do.

Is there anything you would like to know about this religion?

Yeah. I would like to know why they insist upon translating John 1: 1 as they do. The verse literally reads "and God was the Word". Also, I would like to know - if they are following any Bible at all - exactly where the church was called a Kingdom Hall and Christians were called Jehovah's Witnesses. Thanks.

I just read interesting debate on the subject (of John 1:1)! Here is the link: http://www.debate.org...
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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9/5/2012 4:16:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/5/2012 3:56:54 AM, DavidJames1 wrote:
At 9/4/2012 9:28:16 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/4/2012 8:25:20 AM, DavidJames1 wrote:
Almost everyone has heard of them.
Many have had them knocking on their door.
Some have had a few conversations with them!

Yet, many are unaware as to what exactly they believe or why they believe what they do.

Is there anything you would like to know about this religion?

Yeah. I would like to know why they insist upon translating John 1: 1 as they do. The verse literally reads "and God was the Word". Also, I would like to know - if they are following any Bible at all - exactly where the church was called a Kingdom Hall and Christians were called Jehovah's Witnesses. Thanks.

I just read interesting debate on the subject (of John 1:1)! Here is the link: http://www.debate.org...

Pro's argument was very very weak.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
DavidJames1
Posts: 122
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9/5/2012 4:37:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/5/2012 4:16:46 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 9/5/2012 3:56:54 AM, DavidJames1 wrote:
At 9/4/2012 9:28:16 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/4/2012 8:25:20 AM, DavidJames1 wrote:
Almost everyone has heard of them.
Many have had them knocking on their door.
Some have had a few conversations with them!

Yet, many are unaware as to what exactly they believe or why they believe what they do.

Is there anything you would like to know about this religion?

Yeah. I would like to know why they insist upon translating John 1: 1 as they do. The verse literally reads "and God was the Word". Also, I would like to know - if they are following any Bible at all - exactly where the church was called a Kingdom Hall and Christians were called Jehovah's Witnesses. Thanks.

I just read interesting debate on the subject (of John 1:1)! Here is the link: http://www.debate.org...

Pro's argument was very very weak.

I agree! and Con makes a very good argument!