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What would it take to convince you

imabench
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9/6/2012 1:05:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I saw this buried in another forum somewhere and I thought that it should have a topic of its own.

Theists, what would it take to convert you to Atheism? What would have to happen or what would you have to see to join Atheism?

Atheists, what would it take to convert you to believing in God? What would have to happen or what would you have to see in order to believe in God?

Personally as a theist, I would only accept that God isnt real if my deceased father came to me in some kind of spirit form, along with other spirits, and all unanimously declared that there is no God in the afterlife from their firsthand accounts. What about you guys though?
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

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imabench
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9/6/2012 1:06:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
By the way, this is all hypothetical, no one is going to judge you for saying what it would take to convince you so you dont have to come in here saying no matter what you still wouldn't believe.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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9/6/2012 1:07:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:05:26 PM, imabench wrote:
I saw this buried in another forum somewhere and I thought that it should have a topic of its own.

Theists, what would it take to convert you to Atheism? What would have to happen or what would you have to see to join Atheism?

Atheists, what would it take to convert you to believing in God? What would have to happen or what would you have to see in order to believe in God?

Personally as a theist, I would only accept that God isnt real if my deceased father came to me in some kind of spirit form, along with other spirits, and all unanimously declared that there is no God in the afterlife from their firsthand accounts. What about you guys though?

LOL Far to many assumptions. apostasy is what theist call conversion.....happens all the time.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/6/2012 1:25:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:05:26 PM, imabench wrote:

Personally as a theist, I would only accept that God isnt real if my deceased father came to me in some kind of spirit form, along with other spirits, and all unanimously declared that there is no God in the afterlife from their firsthand accounts. What about you guys though?

Yes, essentially this. As it stands now at least if I die and don't end up anywhere I have nothing to lose by believing assuming there is an afterlife.
TheAsylum
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9/6/2012 1:27:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I must be honest, there is nothing that will convince me that, Jesus Christ, is not the Son of God. Not any spirit, not any ghost.
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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9/6/2012 1:29:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:27:15 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
I must be honest, there is nothing that will convince me that, Jesus Christ, is not the Son of God. Not any spirit, not any ghost.

what if he told you himself hes God's brother or something
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
TheAsylum
Posts: 772
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9/6/2012 1:31:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:29:46 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:27:15 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
I must be honest, there is nothing that will convince me that, Jesus Christ, is not the Son of God. Not any spirit, not any ghost.

what if he told you himself hes God's brother or something

Then He is a liar.
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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9/6/2012 1:34:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:31:16 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:29:46 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:27:15 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
I must be honest, there is nothing that will convince me that, Jesus Christ, is not the Son of God. Not any spirit, not any ghost.

what if he told you himself hes God's brother or something

Then He is a liar.

So Jesus is a liar? you sick f*ck
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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9/6/2012 1:35:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:31:16 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:29:46 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:27:15 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
I must be honest, there is nothing that will convince me that, Jesus Christ, is not the Son of God. Not any spirit, not any ghost.

what if he told you himself hes God's brother or something

Then He is a liar.

And if He told you He was God?
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/6/2012 1:36:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:31:16 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:29:46 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:27:15 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
I must be honest, there is nothing that will convince me that, Jesus Christ, is not the Son of God. Not any spirit, not any ghost.

what if he told you himself hes God's brother or something

Then He is a liar.

You're seriously calling your own god a liar? Why would you want to worship a liar? :s
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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9/6/2012 1:37:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Nothing would be able to convince me there is no God.

If I died and stopped existing, however, that would convince me my notion of God was obviously wrong.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/6/2012 1:39:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:05:26 PM, imabench wrote:
Atheists, what would it take to convert you to believing in God? What would have to happen or what would you have to see in order to believe in God?

- A first hand experience or revelation (probably supernatural) that is a direct testament to God's existence, as opposed to an inexplicable phenomena to automatically attribute to God's existence

- A comprehensible logical argument

- Proof or physical evidence of any kind outside of logic, since arguments can be valid but not sound

- Reasonable answers to all of the questions, objections and criticisms of God's existence

...or any combination thereof.

Personally as a theist, I would only accept that God isnt real if my deceased father came to me in some kind of spirit form, along with other spirits, and all unanimously declared that there is no God in the afterlife from their firsthand accounts. What about you guys though?

This makes no sense. You don't know if spirits exist, so you should probably find a more reasonable answer. If spirits don't exist (and you have no proof that they do) then you've basically set an impossible standard for conversion. Also, if spirits do exist, it would probably be a point in favor of God's existence rather than against it. I WAS a theist, but educating myself (philosophy, science and ESPECIALLY history) helped eradicate the non-sensical belief in the Abrahamic God as She is described.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/6/2012 1:40:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:37:48 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Nothing would be able to convince me there is no God.

lol, that's healthy.
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TheAsylum
Posts: 772
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9/6/2012 1:42:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:34:49 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:31:16 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:29:46 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:27:15 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
I must be honest, there is nothing that will convince me that, Jesus Christ, is not the Son of God. Not any spirit, not any ghost.

what if he told you himself hes God's brother or something

Then He is a liar.

So Jesus is a liar? you sick f*ck

Nice verbal useage. Jesus would not say such things. Read the good book.
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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9/6/2012 1:43:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:39:53 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:05:26 PM, imabench wrote:
Atheists, what would it take to convert you to believing in God? What would have to happen or what would you have to see in order to believe in God?

- A first hand experience or revelation (probably supernatural) that is a direct testament to God's existence, as opposed to an inexplicable phenomena to automatically attribute to God's existence

- A comprehensible logical argument

- Proof or physical evidence of any kind outside of logic, since arguments can be valid but not sound

- Reasonable answers to all of the questions, objections and criticisms of God's existence

...or any combination thereof.

Personally as a theist, I would only accept that God isnt real if my deceased father came to me in some kind of spirit form, along with other spirits, and all unanimously declared that there is no God in the afterlife from their firsthand accounts. What about you guys though?

This makes no sense. You don't know if spirits exist, so you should probably find a more reasonable answer. If spirits don't exist (and you have no proof that they do) then you've basically set an impossible standard for conversion.

I do cling to being a theist pretty hard so why wouldnt I set a high standard?

Also, if spirits do exist, it would probably be a point in favor of God's existence rather than against it.

There isnt evidence saying that God has to be real in order for there to be an afterlife

I WAS a theist, but educating myself (philosophy, science and ESPECIALLY history) helped eradicate the non-sensical belief in the Abrahamic God as She is described.

but you yourself said a comprehensive logical argument could change that
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
TheAsylum
Posts: 772
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9/6/2012 1:43:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:35:19 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:31:16 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:29:46 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:27:15 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
I must be honest, there is nothing that will convince me that, Jesus Christ, is not the Son of God. Not any spirit, not any ghost.

what if he told you himself hes God's brother or something

Then He is a liar.

And if He told you He was God?

Again a liar. The Bible tells use what will happen and that is not it.
TheAsylum
Posts: 772
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9/6/2012 1:43:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:36:03 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:31:16 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:29:46 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:27:15 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
I must be honest, there is nothing that will convince me that, Jesus Christ, is not the Son of God. Not any spirit, not any ghost.

what if he told you himself hes God's brother or something

Then He is a liar.

You're seriously calling your own god a liar? Why would you want to worship a liar? :s

When did I call my God a liar? Hmm....
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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9/6/2012 1:44:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:42:44 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:34:49 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:31:16 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:29:46 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:27:15 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
I must be honest, there is nothing that will convince me that, Jesus Christ, is not the Son of God. Not any spirit, not any ghost.

what if he told you himself hes God's brother or something

Then He is a liar.

So Jesus is a liar? you sick f*ck

Nice verbal useage. Jesus would not say such things. Read the good book.

Do I look like Im Jesus? Im not... So f*ck f*ck f*ckitty f*ck f*ck
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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9/6/2012 1:45:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:43:17 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:35:19 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:31:16 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:29:46 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:27:15 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
I must be honest, there is nothing that will convince me that, Jesus Christ, is not the Son of God. Not any spirit, not any ghost.

what if he told you himself hes God's brother or something

Then He is a liar.

And if He told you He was God?

Again a liar. The Bible tells use what will happen and that is not it.

Thanks for biting.....hence you are NOT christian. That was fun.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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9/6/2012 1:45:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:40:29 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:37:48 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Nothing would be able to convince me there is no God.

lol, that's healthy.

I don't actually really have a very firm belief in the God I claim to believe in, but I have seen no convincing arguments against a nonspecific God existing.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
TheJackel
Posts: 508
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9/6/2012 1:46:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:05:26 PM, imabench wrote:
I saw this buried in another forum somewhere and I thought that it should have a topic of its own.

Theists, what would it take to convert you to Atheism? What would have to happen or what would you have to see to join Atheism?

Atheists, what would it take to convert you to believing in God? What would have to happen or what would you have to see in order to believe in God?

Personally as a theist, I would only accept that God isnt real if my deceased father came to me in some kind of spirit form, along with other spirits, and all unanimously declared that there is no God in the afterlife from their firsthand accounts. What about you guys though?

Giving the concept of GOD is at best a concept of opinion and title of opinion.. Nothing could. It doesn't matter how powerful a supposed being is.. It's nothing without that which give it power, it's nothing without existence itself. And Pantheists suggest existence itself is GOD, and technically that is the highest level of a concept of GOD you can possibly Get. That which really makes it moot.

So no, it's not possible to convince me of a GOD's existence, or the logic of worshiping anything as a "GOD". It's a nonsensical concept to begin with.
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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9/6/2012 1:48:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:43:17 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:35:19 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:31:16 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:29:46 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:27:15 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
I must be honest, there is nothing that will convince me that, Jesus Christ, is not the Son of God. Not any spirit, not any ghost.

what if he told you himself hes God's brother or something

Then He is a liar.

And if He told you He was God?

Again a liar. The Bible tells use what will happen and that is not it.

Who do you worship, The Bible or God?
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
TheJackel
Posts: 508
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9/6/2012 1:49:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:37:48 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Nothing would be able to convince me there is no God.

If I died and stopped existing, however, that would convince me my notion of God was obviously wrong.

You can't be convinced after your dead.. :/ You're assuming you would be conscious after death then, or after not existing? That makes no sense.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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9/6/2012 1:49:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think the problem in this question on the theist side is that as far as philosophical arguments go, you can only prove the existence of God more probable. In my debates I have presented several arguments and in those debates I have also not heard a good argument against the existence of God. So as far as philosophical arguments go, you can attempt to show it is more probable. However when someone becomes a Christian they can know God exists through the Holy Spirit. So I'm not sure there is a good way for any Christian to answer this.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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9/6/2012 1:51:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:49:20 PM, TheJackel wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:37:48 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Nothing would be able to convince me there is no God.

If I died and stopped existing, however, that would convince me my notion of God was obviously wrong.

You can't be convinced after your dead.. :/ You're assuming you would be conscious after death then, or after not existing? That makes no sense.

I was kind of zoned out when I wrote that... You're right, it doesn't make any sense.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/6/2012 1:51:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:43:17 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:35:19 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:31:16 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:29:46 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/6/2012 1:27:15 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
I must be honest, there is nothing that will convince me that, Jesus Christ, is not the Son of God. Not any spirit, not any ghost.

what if he told you himself hes God's brother or something

Then He is a liar.

And if He told you He was God?

Again a liar. The Bible tells use what will happen and that is not it.

This is assuming the Bible is infallible though. In the case that it was proven wrong you wouldn't have anything to go off of then if you only believe what you do because "the Bible says so".
TheJackel
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9/6/2012 1:53:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Here is a question.. How do you "identify" and validate your GOD.. It some entity comes up to you and claims it is GOD, what is your method to ensure it is this deity? And how did you prove it's a GOD at all ? The concept of GOD is pretty darn vague. And many theists proclaim GOD is incomprehensible and thus unknowable.
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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9/6/2012 1:53:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:49:30 PM, stubs wrote:
I think the problem in this question on the theist side is that as far as philosophical arguments go, you can only prove the existence of God more probable. In my debates I have presented several arguments and in those debates I have also not heard a good argument against the existence of God. So as far as philosophical arguments go, you can attempt to show it is more probable. However when someone becomes a Christian they can know God exists through the Holy Spirit. So I'm not sure there is a good way for any Christian to answer this.

im not asking for a good way, its just a simple what-if scenario where your allowed to get creative with putting your faith on the line with no harm done.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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9/6/2012 1:55:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:53:15 PM, TheJackel wrote:
Here is a question.. How do you "identify" and validate your GOD.. It some entity comes up to you and claims it is GOD, what is your method to ensure it is this deity? And how did you prove it's a GOD at all ? The concept of GOD is pretty darn vague. And many theists proclaim GOD is incomprehensible and thus unknowable.

Id ask him to demonstrate his omnipotency two or three times, then have him recite the lords Prayer, and then Id happily believe he was God
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
logicrules
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9/6/2012 1:57:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 1:53:15 PM, TheJackel wrote:
Here is a question.. How do you "identify" and validate your GOD.. It some entity comes up to you and claims it is GOD, what is your method to ensure it is this deity? And how did you prove it's a GOD at all ? The concept of GOD is pretty darn vague. And many theists proclaim GOD is incomprehensible and thus unknowable.

The presumption that God needs human validation seems odd...define God? Having asked that, and I will have to find the original source, it is posited that US patriotism is itself a religion with money being the god, Court being the high priest and Constitution bein the sacred text. In that context god is validated by how much i can get.