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The Christian Message?

Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/15/2009 9:02:21 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I've already posted this, but it appears to have been ignored so I thought it would be best or at least egotistical to give it it's own little thread.

It appears that the troll and Godsands are preaching something akin to the following...

So God creates humans with free will?
God knows that humans will use free will, he knows they will choose 'wrongly', he deems this to be sin and he punishes them accordingly. (The Fall).
Every human inherits the 'sin' of Adam and Eve's mistake, despite having no possible responsibility for it we are all made to suffer.
God, sends himself to be born on earth (Jesus). Despite performing several miracles neither those who follow God (Jews), nor the religiously liberal Romans decide to recognise him as a God, or a holy man, or even a handy wizard.
The Jews and Romans kill Jesus as he is, or is assumed to be a political rabble rouser.
Jesus comes back to life, an action that completely fails to impress anyone but his closest friends.
God decides that as he in the form of Jesus constitutes perfection, and that his state execution, to preserve Roman rule over Judea, and Jewish power within that context constituted a sacrifice to himself even though it was not intended in that way.
As a result of humanity performing this perfect sacrifice out of ignorance, God decides that he is no longer angry at us. We are free to sin and exercise free will so long as we believe that the state execution of Jesus for political sedition against the Roman state constitutes a perfect sacrifice that appeases God.
If we do not we go hell for eternity for punishment.

If we try to believe this but can not we go to hell.
If we try to believe this, pray desperately to understand it, but can not, and spend our lives doing good deeds and preaching the word of God we go to hell.
If we are raised as Muslims, Hindus, Mongolian Animists etc... and never hear the 'truth' or discount it due to conflicting indocrination we go to hell.
If we die whilst being born, or early on life before being taught about Jesus we go to hell.
If we are born deaf and blind and can not be taught about Jesus we go to hell.
If we are raised in a Catholic orphange and sexually molested every day and so acquire a revulsion for religion that is not our fault we go to hell.
If we actually believe in Jesus, and become a fine Christian, but make the terrible mistake of joining the wrong branch of Christianity then we go to hell.
If we spend 87 years as good Jesus believing Christians but then five minutes prior to our death start to have second thoughts we go to hell.
If we otherwise destined to believe but made the fateful mistake of encountering Datchmoto on an internet message board who succeeds in completely turning us of the idea we go to hell.

Is that an accurate summation?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/16/2009 8:36:10 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/16/2009 8:22:14 AM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
Yep - notice they won't defend it... it DOES sound pretty ridiculous.

I was hoping someone would be able to clarify it into a form that makes sense.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/16/2009 10:56:44 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/16/2009 9:14:38 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
They feel it's their duty to save us. Fight fire with fire perhaps?

If they can't see how bankrupt their opinions are what is the use?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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9/16/2009 11:00:28 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/16/2009 10:56:44 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/16/2009 9:14:38 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
They feel it's their duty to save us. Fight fire with fire perhaps?

If they can't see how bankrupt their opinions are what is the use?

Precisely. We should enlighten them.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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9/17/2009 5:42:33 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/16/2009 8:22:14 AM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
Yep - notice they won't defend it... it DOES sound pretty ridiculous.

Compared to what? That the universe exploded out of NOTHING? That Life evolved out of NOTHING? That we are to believe a theory with NO evidence?

The above IS a ridiculous caricature of the Gospel, a mockery that I will not dignify with a reply.
As you are QUITE aware young man, I HAVE defended the Gospel countless times.

Toodle pip..
The Cross.. the Cross.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/17/2009 5:44:55 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/16/2009 11:00:28 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 9/16/2009 10:56:44 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/16/2009 9:14:38 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
They feel it's their duty to save us. Fight fire with fire perhaps?

If they can't see how bankrupt their opinions are what is the use?

Precisely. We should enlighten them.

I should re-write it, clean it up a little and distribute it as a pamphlet come next sunday, you know there are 6 churches all within a ten minute walk of me and only one pub... whats up with that?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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9/17/2009 6:32:12 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 5:44:55 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/16/2009 11:00:28 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 9/16/2009 10:56:44 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/16/2009 9:14:38 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
They feel it's their duty to save us. Fight fire with fire perhaps?

If they can't see how bankrupt their opinions are what is the use?

Precisely. We should enlighten them.

I should re-write it, clean it up a little and distribute it as a pamphlet come next sunday, you know there are 6 churches all within a ten minute walk of me and only one pub... whats up with that?

But you won't.
The Cross.. the Cross.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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9/17/2009 10:19:40 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 5:44:55 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/16/2009 11:00:28 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 9/16/2009 10:56:44 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/16/2009 9:14:38 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
They feel it's their duty to save us. Fight fire with fire perhaps?

If they can't see how bankrupt their opinions are what is the use?

Precisely. We should enlighten them.

I should re-write it, clean it up a little and distribute it as a pamphlet come next sunday, you know there are 6 churches all within a ten minute walk of me and only one pub... whats up with that?

Lol, it's the opposite where I live :P.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/17/2009 10:48:02 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
We have three close down in the past two years... horrific... I never go to the pub but I don't like to see them vanish. One of them is 250 years old, they want to tear it down and replace it with a KFC, the other two were destroyed to make way for flats for old people.

It's a strange age we live in!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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9/17/2009 10:53:05 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 10:19:40 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 9/17/2009 5:44:55 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
there are 6 churches all within a ten minute walk of me and only one pub... whats up with that?

Lol, it's the opposite where I live :P.

I think I've got 4 churches, even more mosques and at least 30 pubs!
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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9/17/2009 10:57:58 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 10:48:02 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
We have three close down in the past two years... horrific... I never go to the pub but I don't like to see them vanish. One of them is 250 years old, they want to tear it down and replace it with a KFC, the other two were destroyed to make way for flats for old people.

It's a strange age we live in!

Dear lack-of-god
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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9/17/2009 10:59:10 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 10:53:05 AM, feverish wrote:
At 9/17/2009 10:19:40 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 9/17/2009 5:44:55 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
there are 6 churches all within a ten minute walk of me and only one pub... whats up with that?

Lol, it's the opposite where I live :P.

I think I've got 4 churches, even more mosques and at least 30 pubs!

Lol there's 2 mosques in my city, a counties capital.

And 5 pubs I could walk to, and triple the places I could buy drink.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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9/17/2009 10:59:31 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 10:53:05 AM, feverish wrote:
At 9/17/2009 10:19:40 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 9/17/2009 5:44:55 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
there are 6 churches all within a ten minute walk of me and only one pub... whats up with that?

Lol, it's the opposite where I live :P.

I think I've got 4 churches, even more mosques and at least 30 pubs!

Lol there's 2 mosques in my city, a countries capital.

And 5 pubs I could walk to, and triple the places I could buy drink.

Fix'd
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Cujosrevenge
Posts: 3
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9/17/2009 1:22:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/15/2009 9:02:21 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I've already posted this, but it appears to have been ignored so I thought it would be best or at least egotistical to give it it's own little thread.

It appears that the troll and Godsands are preaching something akin to the following...

So God creates humans with free will?
God knows that humans will use free will, he knows they will choose 'wrongly', he deems this to be sin and he punishes them accordingly. (The Fall).
Every human inherits the 'sin' of Adam and Eve's mistake, despite having no possible responsibility for it we are all made to suffer.
God, sends himself to be born on earth (Jesus). Despite performing several miracles neither those who follow God (Jews), nor the religiously liberal Romans decide to recognise him as a God, or a holy man, or even a handy wizard.
The Jews and Romans kill Jesus as he is, or is assumed to be a political rabble rouser.
Jesus comes back to life, an action that completely fails to impress anyone but his closest friends.
God decides that as he in the form of Jesus constitutes perfection, and that his state execution, to preserve Roman rule over Judea, and Jewish power within that context constituted a sacrifice to himself even though it was not intended in that way.
As a result of humanity performing this perfect sacrifice out of ignorance, God decides that he is no longer angry at us. We are free to sin and exercise free will so long as we believe that the state execution of Jesus for political sedition against the Roman state constitutes a perfect sacrifice that appeases God.
If we do not we go hell for eternity for punishment.

If we try to believe this but can not we go to hell.
If we try to believe this, pray desperately to understand it, but can not, and spend our lives doing good deeds and preaching the word of God we go to hell.
If we are raised as Muslims, Hindus, Mongolian Animists etc... and never hear the 'truth' or discount it due to conflicting indocrination we go to hell.
If we die whilst being born, or early on life before being taught about Jesus we go to hell.
If we are born deaf and blind and can not be taught about Jesus we go to hell.
If we are raised in a Catholic orphange and sexually molested every day and so acquire a revulsion for religion that is not our fault we go to hell.
If we actually believe in Jesus, and become a fine Christian, but make the terrible mistake of joining the wrong branch of Christianity then we go to hell.
If we spend 87 years as good Jesus believing Christians but then five minutes prior to our death start to have second thoughts we go to hell.
If we otherwise destined to believe but made the fateful mistake of encountering Datchmoto on an internet message board who succeeds in completely turning us of the idea we go to hell.

Is that an accurate summation?
_____________________________________________________________

However, it also must be noted that the Old Testament saints were saved although they did not have a complete knowledge of the salvation act (see 1 Peter 1:10-11). So it is possible to be saved by God through Christ even if you don't understand all the facts of the Gospel(5).
~Cr@zy Cujo~
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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9/17/2009 1:30:07 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 1:22:02 PM, Cujosrevenge wrote:




However, it also must be noted that the Old Testament saints were saved although they did not have a complete knowledge of the salvation act (see 1 Peter 1:10-11). So it is possible to be saved by God through Christ even if you don't understand all the facts of the Gospel(5).

Right,but they weren't pagan.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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9/18/2009 10:07:40 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 1:22:02 PM, Cujosrevenge wrote:


However, it also must be noted that the Old Testament saints were saved although they did not have a complete knowledge of the salvation act (see 1 Peter 1:10-11). So it is possible to be saved by God through Christ even if you don't understand all the facts of the Gospel(5).

But you must accept that which you DO understand; not hide behind loopholes.
The Cross.. the Cross.