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Concerns For Society

ProfessorVeritatis
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9/7/2012 2:25:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://youtu.be...
If you didn't watch the video above, I would advise you to do so. I came here to ask your opinions on the topics I bring up in the video. As I state in the video, I can't fully understand, even being an ex-christian, why we let our day-to-day existence be guided by our belief in a deity or deities. We base our morals on the writings of mystic sheepherders. We let our belief that a god or gods are 'making a list' and 'checking it twice' be our moral compass. Why can't we act morally just and right for the sole fact that it is morally just and right? Why can't we value life because everybody only has one, and to waste it would be the most unforgivable of atrocities?
Prof. Veritatis
Cogito, Ergo Doleo
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/7/2012 5:57:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This question is not intended to be rude, but may sound like I am. It's just trying to make a point, nothing personal.

Who are you, or anyone else for that matter, to tell me what is morally right for me, if there is no entity to tell man what is moral and what isn't??

You mention Muhammad and Iesha, the 9 year old wife. If there is no God, then who are you to say that he was immoral??

Now, I happen to agree with you about that situation, however, that's because I have support for an objective morality. Without God, there is none. Each man is left to decide what's moral and what isn't, based on his own beliefs about what's right.

If a baby rapist feels like it's natural to him to want sex with kids, then he isn't going to feel that his actions are immoral. If you tell him it is immoral, then you're forcing your morality onto him, without good cause. You have no rational basis on which to jail that man, aside from YOU claiming that it's bad.

Why is it bad?? Is it because it harms the kids?? We both know that yes, it does harm the kids. But if we have musical morality, then one person does not have a right to tell another person that their morality must say that harming someone is bad.

I've never seen anyone defend subjective morality satisfactorily. Perhaps you can answer to that.
logicrules
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9/7/2012 7:34:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Morals as principles do not exist, either from a theological construct or social. All behavior is conformity. Few, if any, strive for right over wrong.
medic0506
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9/7/2012 8:25:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 7:52:08 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
The Bible gives moral guidance and that is the only description of Morality needed.

It can't be said any better than that.
logicrules
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9/7/2012 9:02:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 7:52:08 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
The Bible gives moral guidance and that is the only description of Morality needed.

No it does not....you believe you can deduce from the text. There is not a single moral principle stated in the bible that you hold as an absolute, ie would NEVER violate or would ALWAYS do, in the affirmative.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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9/7/2012 9:02:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 2:25:18 AM, ProfessorVeritatis wrote:
http://youtu.be...
If you didn't watch the video above, I would advise you to do so. I came here to ask your opinions on the topics I bring up in the video. As I state in the video, I can't fully understand, even being an ex-christian, why we let our day-to-day existence be guided by our belief in a deity or deities. We base our morals on the writings of mystic sheepherders. We let our belief that a god or gods are 'making a list' and 'checking it twice' be our moral compass. Why can't we act morally just and right for the sole fact that it is morally just and right? Why can't we value life because everybody only has one, and to waste it would be the most unforgivable of atrocities?

Faith is a normative part of human interaction. We must be faithful one way or another, it just depends on who we assert that allegiance, and how we quantify that allegiance.

Given that God is not someone that anyone actually expects to show up one day and give everyone orders, it is clear that He is actually utilized as an impetus for authority. In other words, it grants those that work under God clout.

However, even in the absence of a God, there will still be people on whom we place our faith, whether it's the cops, the government, our parents, or whatever. If we didn't, we couldn't maintain a society, because there's no real rational reason to actually have faith in anyone, really, especially those in whom we place faith that we don't know.

On the other hand, the reason why there wouldn't be a society is precisely that people are unwilling to be responsible for themselves. Acknowledging moral standards and ethical parameters imposes a degree of accountability with which it appears most people are uncomfortable. With little to counterbalance our desires, which often seem to conflict with our natural moral aptitudes, we end up deferring to authorities that we place on ourselves instead, because it's much easier to have someone force us to behave than attempt to convince ourselves.
TheAsylum
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9/7/2012 9:03:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 9:02:14 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/7/2012 7:52:08 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
The Bible gives moral guidance and that is the only description of Morality needed.

No it does not....you believe you can deduce from the text. There is not a single moral principle stated in the bible that you hold as an absolute, ie would NEVER violate or would ALWAYS do, in the affirmative.

You and I, have different Bibles & maybe different God's, if that is the way you feel about the Word of God. It is complete and to say it is not is to spit in the face of Jesus Christ.
logicrules
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9/7/2012 9:10:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 9:03:51 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/7/2012 9:02:14 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/7/2012 7:52:08 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
The Bible gives moral guidance and that is the only description of Morality needed.

No it does not....you believe you can deduce from the text. There is not a single moral principle stated in the bible that you hold as an absolute, ie would NEVER violate or would ALWAYS do, in the affirmative.

You and I, have different Bibles & maybe different God's, if that is the way you feel about the Word of God. It is complete and to say it is not is to spit in the face of Jesus Christ.

Doubt it...state the principle and we shall put your view to the test. Failure to state one indicates there are none.
TheAsylum
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9/7/2012 9:11:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 9:02:14 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/7/2012 7:52:08 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
The Bible gives moral guidance and that is the only description of Morality needed.

No it does not....you believe you can deduce from the text. There is not a single moral principle stated in the bible that you hold as an absolute, ie would NEVER violate or would ALWAYS do, in the affirmative.

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Mark 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
logicrules
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9/7/2012 9:22:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 9:11:37 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/7/2012 9:02:14 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/7/2012 7:52:08 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
The Bible gives moral guidance and that is the only description of Morality needed.

No it does not....you believe you can deduce from the text. There is not a single moral principle stated in the bible that you hold as an absolute, ie would NEVER violate or would ALWAYS do, in the affirmative.

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Mark 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Sorry...I dont get it.....So based on Mark you never defecate?
TheAsylum
Posts: 772
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9/7/2012 9:24:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
No it does not....you believe you can deduce from the text. There is not a single moral principle stated in the bible that you hold as an absolute: :
We know that from your previous statement above. ^
Sorry...I dont get it.....So based on Mark you never defecate?
logicrules
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9/7/2012 9:27:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 9:24:45 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
No it does not....you believe you can deduce from the text. There is not a single moral principle stated in the bible that you hold as an absolute: :
We know that from your previous statement above. ^
Sorry...I dont get it.....So based on Mark you never defecate?

Whos we, and What's that? You have yet to state the Principle....state one, just one.
TheAsylum
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9/7/2012 9:38:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there beany other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love isthe fulfilling of the law.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved to God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane andvain babblings: for they will increase to more ungodliness.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

1 Corinthians 6:7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves tobe defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that yourbrethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told youin time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed itto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, evenhis eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified himnot as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in theirknowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

If you can not grasp a moral compass from theses verses, it is probably because you none.
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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9/7/2012 9:45:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 9:38:17 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there beany other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love isthe fulfilling of the law.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved to God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane andvain babblings: for they will increase to more ungodliness.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

1 Corinthians 6:7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves tobe defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that yourbrethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told youin time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed itto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, evenhis eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified himnot as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in theirknowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

If you can not grasp a moral compass from theses verses, it is probably because you none.

Wow....see it is the grasping that is subjective. Let us try one Principle and see how you do.

Thou shalt not KILL. NB....a simple statement, short and cogent. Feel tree to use that one or pick another....
TheAsylum
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9/7/2012 9:47:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Thou shalt not KILL. NB....a simple statement, short and cogent. Feel tree to use that one or pick another....

No. Thou shalt not covet your neighber's wife.
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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9/7/2012 9:52:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 9:47:20 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
Thou shalt not KILL. NB....a simple statement, short and cogent. Feel tree to use that one or pick another....

No. Thou shalt not covet your neighber's wife.

So you never covet....ever?
TheAsylum
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9/7/2012 10:02:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 9:52:19 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/7/2012 9:47:20 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
Thou shalt not KILL. NB....a simple statement, short and cogent. Feel tree to use that one or pick another....

No. Thou shalt not covet your neighber's wife.

So you never covet....ever?

My neighber's wife, nah, I dont. The topic was not if we do these things, everyone does. The topic was does the Bible have moral standard to live by. I have shown countless moral standards to live by within the Bible you reject as you reject that Jesus Christ gave you the Word to cherish it and use it as a standard.
logicrules
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9/7/2012 10:05:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 10:02:36 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/7/2012 9:52:19 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/7/2012 9:47:20 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
Thou shalt not KILL. NB....a simple statement, short and cogent. Feel tree to use that one or pick another....

No. Thou shalt not covet your neighber's wife.

So you never covet....ever?

My neighber's wife, nah, I dont. The topic was not if we do these things, everyone does. The topic was does the Bible have moral standard to live by. I have shown countless moral standards to live by within the Bible you reject as you reject that Jesus Christ gave you the Word to cherish it and use it as a standard.

No you have not shown a single principle.....you claim subjective standards...not the same. Even the one you chose is not a principle because you limit it to a few people who live close to you...not a principle So, There are no principles stated in the Bible....you just make um up.
TheAsylum
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9/7/2012 10:10:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
No you have not shown a single principle.....you claim subjective standards...not the same. Even the one you chose is not a principle because you limit it to a few people who live close to you...not a principle So, There are no principles stated in the Bible....you just make um up.

Go ahead live unBiblically and deny Jesus Christ's set standards for you. You got to answer to him for that. I am making things up? HMM....I posted about 15 passges or more, telling you instruction, YOU- None. Show me verse or passage telling me the Bible isnt moral standard? Your are basically saying that, Jesus did not give us standard and that Jesus Christ's Word is not any type of standard. Your the one making things up. You live the way you want and just do. Don't deny the Bible because Jesus Christ is and will show you that you are wrong.
logicrules
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9/7/2012 10:21:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 10:10:41 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
No you have not shown a single principle.....you claim subjective standards...not the same. Even the one you chose is not a principle because you limit it to a few people who live close to you...not a principle So, There are no principles stated in the Bible....you just make um up.

Go ahead live unBiblically and deny Jesus Christ's set standards for you. You got to answer to him for that. I am making things up? HMM....I posted about 15 passges or more, telling you instruction, YOU- None. Show me verse or passage telling me the Bible isnt moral standard? Your are basically saying that, Jesus did not give us standard and that Jesus Christ's Word is not any type of standard. Your the one making things up. You live the way you want and just do. Don't deny the Bible because Jesus Christ is and will show you that you are wrong.

So you agree that there is not one principle in the bible, moral or otherwise and that it is you subjective machinations that give it meaning to you alone. Thank you for proving the point and accepting it.
TheAsylum
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9/7/2012 10:23:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
No you have not shown a single principle....but subjective:
...anything is subject if you crave to deny it. The Bible is not subjective it mandatory.:

1. Do not kill
2. Do not covet
3. Do not steal
4. (Important to you)Do not bare False witness
5. Do not put anything above God Almighty
This is just five and strong ones. You fiddled around all day but you have no reason, no excuse, to deny these commandments as standards and morality to live by. Your ego tugs at you. As well as false teaching.
TheAsylum
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9/7/2012 10:24:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
So you agree that there is not one principle in the bible, moral or otherwise and that it is you subjective machinations that give it meaning to you alone. Thank you for proving the point and accepting it.:

Thanks for showing all of DDO who reads this that you are a complete moron.
logicrules
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9/7/2012 10:33:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 10:23:11 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
No you have not shown a single principle....but subjective:
...anything is subject if you crave to deny it. The Bible is not subjective it mandatory.:

1. Do not kill
2. Do not covet
3. Do not steal
4. (Important to you)Do not bare False witness
5. Do not put anything above God Almighty
This is just five and strong ones. You fiddled around all day but you have no reason, no excuse, to deny these commandments as standards and morality to live by. Your ego tugs at you. As well as false teaching.

You do not apply any of those universally...not one.
1. You support Killing..either pants animals or humans...my guess humans
2. you Covet all the time....to covet is to want or desire that which another has
3. If you borrow money you steal....unless you think intention alters the act...
4. False witness is a particular for Court irrelevant
5.. In order for that to be applicable you would need the authority to place and/or put God...you do not.
False Witness is Perjury in US Courts....not a principle.
medic0506
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9/7/2012 10:37:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 9:10:44 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/7/2012 9:03:51 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/7/2012 9:02:14 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/7/2012 7:52:08 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
The Bible gives moral guidance and that is the only description of Morality needed.

No it does not....you believe you can deduce from the text. There is not a single moral principle stated in the bible that you hold as an absolute, ie would NEVER violate or would ALWAYS do, in the affirmative.

You and I, have different Bibles & maybe different God's, if that is the way you feel about the Word of God. It is complete and to say it is not is to spit in the face of Jesus Christ.

Doubt it...state the principle and we shall put your view to the test. Failure to state one indicates there are none.

The Golden Rule.
TheAsylum
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9/7/2012 10:38:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
You do not apply any of those universally...not one.
Yes you do. Applying it and living up to is different things and anyone with a lick of common sense knows that.
1. You support Killing..either pants animals or humans...my guess humans
Yes, it should not be a moral standard, lets kill each other.
2. you Covet all the time....to covet is to want or desire that which another has
Yes you may, still doesnt mean it is O.K.
3. If you borrow money you steal....unless you think intention alters the act...
Borrowing is not stealing and another blatant showing of your lack of knowing. By any means stealing is not O.K.
4. False witness is a particular for Court irrelevant
No. False witness you telling people they are saved from 2,000 years and corrupting the Word of God unto people.
5.. In order for that to be applicable you would need the authority to place and/or put God...you do not.
Any saved Christian does...which shows you are not.
False Witness is Perjury in US Courts....not a principle.
Your statement here shows that it is princible and your lack of intelligence to see that.
medic0506
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9/7/2012 10:40:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 9:52:19 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/7/2012 9:47:20 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
Thou shalt not KILL. NB....a simple statement, short and cogent. Feel tree to use that one or pick another....

No. Thou shalt not covet your neighber's wife.

So you never covet....ever?

We are all guilty of transgression, there is none without sin. But that's not the issue here. It sounds like you're saying that morality can't be found in the Bible, am I reading you correctly??
logicrules
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9/7/2012 11:09:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 10:37:50 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/7/2012 9:10:44 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/7/2012 9:03:51 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/7/2012 9:02:14 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/7/2012 7:52:08 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
The Bible gives moral guidance and that is the only description of Morality needed.

No it does not....you believe you can deduce from the text. There is not a single moral principle stated in the bible that you hold as an absolute, ie would NEVER violate or would ALWAYS do, in the affirmative.

You and I, have different Bibles & maybe different God's, if that is the way you feel about the Word of God. It is complete and to say it is not is to spit in the face of Jesus Christ.

Doubt it...state the principle and we shall put your view to the test. Failure to state one indicates there are none.

The Golden Rule.

Subjective......dependent on your desires.
Try again?
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/7/2012 6:19:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 11:09:30 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/7/2012 10:37:50 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/7/2012 9:10:44 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/7/2012 9:03:51 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/7/2012 9:02:14 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 9/7/2012 7:52:08 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
The Bible gives moral guidance and that is the only description of Morality needed.

No it does not....you believe you can deduce from the text. There is not a single moral principle stated in the bible that you hold as an absolute, ie would NEVER violate or would ALWAYS do, in the affirmative.

You and I, have different Bibles & maybe different God's, if that is the way you feel about the Word of God. It is complete and to say it is not is to spit in the face of Jesus Christ.

Doubt it...state the principle and we shall put your view to the test. Failure to state one indicates there are none.

The Golden Rule.

Subjective......dependent on your desires.
Try again?

No need. It stands as a principle. All the things that the Bible teaches us about right and wrong go into this. It isn't subjective.
Tnkissfan
Posts: 199
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9/8/2012 1:15:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think you are missing a key element and that is that many ( if not most ) Christians would say that people *can* be good without God and it would make more sense to say people are being and doing good because they want to rather than God telling them to.Becoming a Christian changes a person from within but most people already have inside themselves some sense of generosity and a desire to do the right thing.
When one becomes a Christian it's a decision from the heart, not the head and one that accepts the gift of salvation (truly accepts) there will be a change within that person that cannot be explained.
It would be egregious to suggest that any person professing to be a Christian is doing good deeds just out of dedication to God.
I also hate to point out that there are those that profess salvation that have no change within. Notice I said they profess salvation.