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Women. God's afterthought and man's curse to

GreatestIam
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9/7/2012 8:50:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Women. God's afterthought and man's curse to rule.

I think it quite ironic that God, who tells us to reproduce as his first commandment to man in Genesis 1, does not give us something to reproduce with till Genesis 2; 18. Further, only after a severe chastisement without correction, even to death, an immoral concept, after we ate of the tree of knowledge, are men given what is required for reproduction; the desire and mental capacity to do so.

God never tells Adam why he is being chastised. This is an expression of hate on God's part because there is no evil in wanting to become as God as scriptures urge us to do. Note here that I take the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden and not the fall interpretation that Christianity mistakenly puts on it.

Chastisement without correction is just cruelty and thus unjust on God's part. That is the message of Eden. God is unjust. If so, the inequality built into the bible, where men are cursed to rule over women, ----- is unjust.

Genesis 3;16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

As a man, I am not pleased that God has cursed my fellow man to have to suffer ruling over women. To rule over women is to be responsible to them and their demands. I think we should stop being slaves to women and give them full equality. Men owe it especially to men and to a lesser degree to women and between you and I, justice demands it ------, and so would all just people.

As a man, are you ready to shed your yoke of slavery to women and reject God's command to rule over them?

Regards
DL
imabench
Posts: 21,210
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9/7/2012 8:58:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 8:50:57 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Women. God's afterthought and man's curse to rule.

As a man, are you ready to shed your yoke of slavery to women and reject God's command to rule over them?

In as many words as possible, please elaborate on your position that men are enslaved to women and that it is God's command that men rule over them. Also if you could elaborate on how women are God's afterthought, and Mans curse to rule.

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TheAsylum
Posts: 772
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9/7/2012 9:44:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think it quite ironic that God, who tells us to reproduce as his first commandment to man in Genesis 1, does not give us something to reproduce with till Genesis 2; 18. :
It is interesting and a good topic for discussion.

God never tells Adam why he is being chastised.:
This is blatantly untrue.
This is an expression of hate on God's part because there is no evil in wanting to become as God as scriptures urge us to do.:
Where? No where. In fact it is discouraged.
Note here that I take the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden and not the fall interpretation that Christianity mistakenly puts on it.:
Oh..mite be the problem there, Bub. Though in the Torah it is explained.

As a man, are you ready to shed your yoke of slavery to women and reject God's command to rule over them?

Man still rules....look at the world. You sound merely sexist.
GreatestIam
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9/8/2012 8:09:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 8:58:44 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/7/2012 8:50:57 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Women. God's afterthought and man's curse to rule.

As a man, are you ready to shed your yoke of slavery to women and reject God's command to rule over them?

In as many words as possible, please elaborate on your position that men are enslaved to women

If I were a Christian instead of a Gnostic Christian, being a husband, I would have to follow God's instructions and rule over my wife. I also have to love her. It then becomes my responsibility to rule well and I am forced to learn how to while she sits back and reap the benefits. That is men working for their wives sake and I would suggest that that is slavery for men. God has cursed us with this chore and responsibility.

and that it is God's command that men rule over them.

I gave the main quote in the O P. Christianity is all about the man being the head of women.


Also if you could elaborate on how women are God's afterthought, and Mans curse to rule.

<3

Curse to rule is answered above.
As to women being God's afterthought, simple.

Gen 2;18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

I translate this as (of my species) and not really of his own bones.

How could Adam reproduce as ordered in Gen 1 without a woman till Gen 2;23.

That is an afterthought IMO.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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9/8/2012 8:10:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 8:54:20 PM, MattDescopa wrote:
wow man start a debate or something. Do something, get more debates under your belt.

I go for quality. Not quantity.

Regards
DL
TheAsylum
Posts: 772
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9/8/2012 8:13:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago

If I were a Christian instead of a Gnostic Christian, being a husband, I would have to follow God's instructions and rule over my wife. I also have to love her. It then becomes my responsibility to rule well and I am forced to learn how to while she sits back and reap the benefits. That is men working for their wives sake and I would suggest that that is slavery for men. God has cursed us with this chore and responsibility.

^SMH
You have to love her?
You are twisted here, you say you have to rule and then say you are slave, which is it?
DavidJames1
Posts: 122
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9/8/2012 8:23:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 8:50:57 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Women. God's afterthought and man's curse to rule.

I think it quite ironic that God, who tells us to reproduce as his first commandment to man in Genesis 1, does not give us something to reproduce with till Genesis 2; 18. Further, only after a severe chastisement without correction, even to death, an immoral concept, after we ate of the tree of knowledge, are men given what is required for reproduction; the desire and mental capacity to do so.

God never tells Adam why he is being chastised. This is an expression of hate on God's part because there is no evil in wanting to become as God as scriptures urge us to do. Note here that I take the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden and not the fall interpretation that Christianity mistakenly puts on it.

Chastisement without correction is just cruelty and thus unjust on God's part. That is the message of Eden. God is unjust. If so, the inequality built into the bible, where men are cursed to rule over women, ----- is unjust.

Genesis 3;16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

As a man, I am not pleased that God has cursed my fellow man to have to suffer ruling over women. To rule over women is to be responsible to them and their demands. I think we should stop being slaves to women and give them full equality. Men owe it especially to men and to a lesser degree to women and between you and I, justice demands it ------, and so would all just people.

As a man, are you ready to shed your yoke of slavery to women and reject God's command to rule over them?

Regards
DL

If one reads the rest of the bible, one can see that God treats men and women on an equal fotting (while each has a different role, each complement each other). God's expression at Gen 3:16 is merely a prophesy of what their sin would lead to.
GreatestIam
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9/8/2012 8:34:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 9:44:58 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
I think it quite ironic that God, who tells us to reproduce as his first commandment to man in Genesis 1, does not give us something to reproduce with till Genesis 2; 18. :
It is interesting and a good topic for discussion.

God never tells Adam why he is being chastised.:
This is blatantly untrue.

I do not think so.
If Adam could not follow the command to reproduce without eating of the tree of knowledge, as scripture shows, he had no desire, then to do God's first command, the most important one, he would have had to follow Eve's suggestion to eat of the TOK. God never tells Adam how to get out of this catch 22 that he put him in.


This is an expression of hate on God's part because there is no evil in wanting to become as God as scriptures urge us to do.:
Where? No where. In fact it is discouraged.

You're kidding. Right?
Should we try to become as Satan?

Scriptures tell us all over the place to emulate God as our perfect example.
How can one be as good or perfect as God without the knowledge of good and evil that God has?

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


Note here that I take the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden and not the fall interpretation that Christianity mistakenly puts on it.:
Oh..mite be the problem there, Bub. Though in the Torah it is explained.


I have yet to read it. Care to share what it says in a nutshell?
I do know that the Jews valued virtue over obedience and did not have an original sin policy. They saw eating of the TOK as the way to form our moral sense and gave that precedent over plain old obedience. A much better system that the Christian one that has God punishing man for gaining the knowledge of damned near everything as almost everything is subject to good and evil. Right?


As a man, are you ready to shed your yoke of slavery to women and reject God's command to rule over them?

Man still rules....look at the world.

Yes. We are doing a reasonable Job and the future looks bright if you follow the demographics and the stats for things like violent crime, slavery and population growth.

You sound merely sexist.

Sexist?
For wanting to give women equality and take the yoke from male necks.
Are you insane?
That is anti-sexist if anything.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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9/8/2012 8:44:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/8/2012 8:13:21 AM, TheAsylum wrote:

If I were a Christian instead of a Gnostic Christian, being a husband, I would have to follow God's instructions and rule over my wife. I also have to love her. It then becomes my responsibility to rule well and I am forced to learn how to while she sits back and reap the benefits. That is men working for their wives sake and I would suggest that that is slavery for men. God has cursed us with this chore and responsibility.

^SMH

Huh?

You have to love her?
You are twisted here, you say you have to rule and then say you are slave, which is it?


As I said above, man is given the responsibility to both love her and rule over her.
Love enslaves, so to speak.

Do you love your wife?
If so, do you not have the responsibility to show it?
Protect her, feed her insure she has all that is required?
Yes and that is a great responsibility.
Scriptures just say we as men must show it from a position of ruler ship.
Perhaps just to make sure women cannot override our decision to place her above us.
Women get to the life boats first whether they want to or not.

Regards
DL
TheAsylum
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9/8/2012 8:47:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I do not think so.
If Adam could not follow the command to reproduce without eating of the tree of knowledge, as scripture shows, he had no desire, then to do God's first command, the most important one, he would have had to follow Eve's suggestion to eat of the TOK. God never tells Adam how to get out of this catch 22 that he put him in.
:
Where does it say Adam could not reproduce after the fall? In fact God commands that before and why would He command that before the fall if Adam could not? God put him in no catch, Adam put himself in it.
You're kidding. Right?
No, I am not.
Should we try to become as Satan?:
No we should live Christ like but we can not and never will.

Scriptures tell us all over the place to emulate God as our perfect example.
How can one be as good or perfect as God without the knowledge of good and evil that God has?:
You misrepresent this terminology. We, being perfect and then fell, had the ability to know what evil was, we was already good, We learned the difference between the two. Us being like God, who knows about evil but never is, we can not stop doing wickedness because we are subject to sin-satan and God is not. This is why, He says try and be like me.

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
:
My point, you can never be perfect, but you should try too.
I have yet to read it. Care to share what it says in a nutshell?
I do know that the Jews valued virtue over obedience and did not have an original sin policy. They saw eating of the TOK as the way to form our moral sense and gave that precedent over plain old obedience. A much better system that the Christian one that has God punishing man for gaining the knowledge of damned near everything as almost everything is subject to good and evil. Right?


I know about gnostism also. It circles enlightenment. This is the same as all these new age teachings, were man can become God through his own intellect. This is Luciferian doctrine and mystery school teachings.

Yes. We are doing a reasonable Job and the future looks bright:
LOL. How so?
Sexist?
Yes. You mock God's command and seek Godhood for yourself.
TheAsylum
Posts: 772
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9/8/2012 8:49:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Do you love your wife?
If so, do you not have the responsibility to show it?
Protect her, feed her insure she has all that is required?
Yes and that is a great responsibility.
Scriptures just say we as men must show it from a position of ruler ship.
Perhaps just to make sure women cannot override our decision to place her above us.
Women get to the life boats first whether they want to or not.

Regards
DL

^You made alot more sense here.
GreatestIam
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9/8/2012 8:54:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/8/2012 8:23:27 AM, DavidJames1 wrote:
At 9/7/2012 8:50:57 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Women. God's afterthought and man's curse to rule.

I think it quite ironic that God, who tells us to reproduce as his first commandment to man in Genesis 1, does not give us something to reproduce with till Genesis 2; 18. Further, only after a severe chastisement without correction, even to death, an immoral concept, after we ate of the tree of knowledge, are men given what is required for reproduction; the desire and mental capacity to do so.

God never tells Adam why he is being chastised. This is an expression of hate on God's part because there is no evil in wanting to become as God as scriptures urge us to do. Note here that I take the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden and not the fall interpretation that Christianity mistakenly puts on it.

Chastisement without correction is just cruelty and thus unjust on God's part. That is the message of Eden. God is unjust. If so, the inequality built into the bible, where men are cursed to rule over women, ----- is unjust.

Genesis 3;16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

As a man, I am not pleased that God has cursed my fellow man to have to suffer ruling over women. To rule over women is to be responsible to them and their demands. I think we should stop being slaves to women and give them full equality. Men owe it especially to men and to a lesser degree to women and between you and I, justice demands it ------, and so would all just people.

As a man, are you ready to shed your yoke of slavery to women and reject God's command to rule over them?

Regards
DL

If one reads the rest of the bible, one can see that God treats men and women on an equal fotting (while each has a different role, each complement each other). God's expression at Gen 3:16 is merely a prophesy of what their sin would lead to.

God said, "I will" in that quote. That is a promise more than a prophesy.
Strange that you would think you have to get through the rest of the bible before understanding what is said at it's start. If that was a prophesy then though shall surely die is as well and God made damned sure they did by locking away what would keep them alive. Read what is said. Not what you want it to say.

Would you as a man settle for women to be on an equal footing with men?
Would you sit beside a woman in the life boat while other women go down with the ship?

If so, go away. You know nothing of duty or honor.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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9/8/2012 9:29:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/8/2012 8:47:46 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
I do not think so.
If Adam could not follow the command to reproduce without eating of the tree of knowledge, as scripture shows, he had no desire, then to do God's first command, the most important one, he would have had to follow Eve's suggestion to eat of the TOK. God never tells Adam how to get out of this catch 22 that he put him in.
:
Where does it say Adam could not reproduce after the fall?

I don't know. You came up with this while I never said such a thing.

I said he had to fall before he could reproduce because before that, he did not know carnal desire.


In fact God commands that before and why would He command that before the fall if Adam could not? God put him in no catch, Adam put himself in it.
You're kidding. Right?
No, I am not.
Should we try to become as Satan?:
No we should live Christ like but we can not and never will.


Correct. Just changing the name from God to Christ does not change the fact that we are to emulate God and to do so we must know good and evil.
So you were kidding or just saw your error and decided to change the name.
Try to be more honest please.


Scriptures tell us all over the place to emulate God as our perfect example.
How can one be as good or perfect as God without the knowledge of good and evil that God has?:
You misrepresent this terminology. We, being perfect

If a perfect entity can fall then God is in trouble. Right?
Can you be perfect without the knowledge of damned near everything which is basically what the knowledge of good and evil is as those adjective apply to most of the issues I can think of?

If there is any miss-representing being done here it is by you. Show where God said they were perfect. He said good. Read your bible.


and then fell, had the ability to know what evil was, we was already good, We learned the difference between the two. Us being like God, who knows about evil but never is, we can not stop doing wickedness because we are subject to sin-satan and God is not. This is why, He says try and be like me.


Yes and to be like him, as you said, we have to eat and know what the TOK says.

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
:
My point, you can never be perfect, but you should try too.

Exactly and to try is to learn and for that you need to eat of the TOK.

I have yet to read it. Care to share what it says in a nutshell?
I do know that the Jews valued virtue over obedience and did not have an original sin policy. They saw eating of the TOK as the way to form our moral sense and gave that precedent over plain old obedience. A much better system that the Christian one that has God punishing man for gaining the knowledge of damned near everything as almost everything is subject to good and evil. Right?


I know about gnostism also. It circles enlightenment. This is the same as all these new age teachings, were man can become God through his own intellect. This is Luciferian doctrine and mystery school teachings.


Nice that you are educated but why are you offering this straw man instead of the knowledge you hinted at having?
You made a statement. Back it up please.


Yes. We are doing a reasonable Job and the future looks bright:
LOL. How so?

I track violent crime, slavery and population growth.
The first two are the best we have ever has per capita and the population will stabilize and start dropping in 40 odd years. That is how so.
Your own research will confirm this.
Google ----Hans Rosling, Steven Pinker and Keven Bales.


Sexist?
Yes. You mock God's command and seek Godhood for yourself.

Just like A & E were forced to do. That is not to mock. That is to do as commanded to do. Seek the knowledge to morality and God.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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9/8/2012 9:30:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/8/2012 8:49:10 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
Do you love your wife?
If so, do you not have the responsibility to show it?
Protect her, feed her insure she has all that is required?
Yes and that is a great responsibility.
Scriptures just say we as men must show it from a position of ruler ship.
Perhaps just to make sure women cannot override our decision to place her above us.
Women get to the life boats first whether they want to or not.

Regards
DL

^You made alot more sense here.

Thanks.

Regards
DL