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Most convincing argument...

alex1094
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9/11/2012 8:49:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Atheists, what's the most convincing argument for the existence of God?
Theists, what's the most convincing argument for atheism?

For me personally as an atheist, I'd say it's the fine tuning of the universe argument.
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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9/11/2012 8:50:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 8:49:02 AM, alex1094 wrote:
Atheists, what's the most convincing argument for the existence of God?

There is none. I have not seen any "arguments" that can't be easily refuted.

Theists, what's the most convincing argument for atheism?

I always found the incoherence of Christianity/Theism to be good.


For me personally as an atheist, I'd say it's the fine tuning of the universe argument.

LOL!, the fine tuning argument is so fallacious. In fact, using its own logic, we can PROVE atheism!
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

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alex1094
Posts: 15
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9/11/2012 8:54:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Alright calm down. I know they can be easily refuted, it's just the one I had to think about longest before I came to my conclusions about it.
tulle
Posts: 4,445
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9/11/2012 9:39:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't find any particular argument of theism convincing, but I do waver in my (non)belief because of the psychologal benefits.
yang.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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9/11/2012 9:47:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 9:39:03 AM, tulle wrote:
I don't find any particular argument of theism convincing, but I do waver in my (non)belief because of the psychologal benefits.

you paint love in selfishness and remove all romance from the world :P but perhaps your "delusion" is in fact delusion, eh? ;)
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alex1094
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9/11/2012 9:48:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 9:39:03 AM, tulle wrote:
I don't find any particular argument of theism convincing, but I do waver in my (non)belief because of the psychologal benefits.

Interesting, I think it definitely can have some but it certainly depends. Wouldn't like to be stuck living with all that Catholic guilt...
badger
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9/11/2012 9:54:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
without love what have you of man? but the creative instinct, selfish and devastating... my theory's certainly elegant enough as to be correct methinks.
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badger
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9/11/2012 9:57:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
and it legitimately felt as though God himself enlightened me to it, but granted it was after taking a considerable amount of mdma and he hasn't talked to me since.... but that could be but the doubt to be overcome! guys, we should be communists...
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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9/11/2012 9:59:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
i also personally believe it the only conceivable solution to the Problem of Evil and newly found by me...possibly through my buddy, God.
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tulle
Posts: 4,445
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9/11/2012 10:06:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 9:48:04 AM, alex1094 wrote:
At 9/11/2012 9:39:03 AM, tulle wrote:
I don't find any particular argument of theism convincing, but I do waver in my (non)belief because of the psychologal benefits.

Interesting, I think it definitely can have some but it certainly depends. Wouldn't like to be stuck living with all that Catholic guilt...

You can believe in God without being religious or subscribing to any religion. But I think belief in something "higher" gives people hope. Whether it's right or wrong is irrelevant to me. I work in suicide prevention and I capitalize on people's beliefs in God, despite not believing in it myself. Self-delusion has been an integral part of my psychological well-being, as it is for anybody. It works for me. That's the most convincing argument for me.
yang.
badger
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9/11/2012 10:12:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 10:06:03 AM, tulle wrote:
At 9/11/2012 9:48:04 AM, alex1094 wrote:
At 9/11/2012 9:39:03 AM, tulle wrote:
I don't find any particular argument of theism convincing, but I do waver in my (non)belief because of the psychologal benefits.

Interesting, I think it definitely can have some but it certainly depends. Wouldn't like to be stuck living with all that Catholic guilt...

You can believe in God without being religious or subscribing to any religion. But I think belief in something "higher" gives people hope. Whether it's right or wrong is irrelevant to me. I work in suicide prevention and I capitalize on people's beliefs in God, despite not believing in it myself. Self-delusion has been an integral part of my psychological well-being, as it is for anybody. It works for me. That's the most convincing argument for me.

you're too pretty to be a monster :P
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alex1094
Posts: 15
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9/11/2012 10:32:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 10:06:03 AM, tulle wrote:
At 9/11/2012 9:48:04 AM, alex1094 wrote:
At 9/11/2012 9:39:03 AM, tulle wrote:
I don't find any particular argument of theism convincing, but I do waver in my (non)belief because of the psychologal benefits.

Interesting, I think it definitely can have some but it certainly depends. Wouldn't like to be stuck living with all that Catholic guilt...

You can believe in God without being religious or subscribing to any religion. But I think belief in something "higher" gives people hope. Whether it's right or wrong is irrelevant to me. I work in suicide prevention and I capitalize on people's beliefs in God, despite not believing in it myself. Self-delusion has been an integral part of my psychological well-being, as it is for anybody. It works for me. That's the most convincing argument for me.

I will never understand how you can knowingly delude yourself.. How do you make yourself believe something?
This may sound a little insensitive.. but surely a belief in God and an afterlife draws you to the idea of suicide?
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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9/11/2012 10:32:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 10:26:07 AM, tulle wrote:
Lol badger... I work in suicide prevention but my atheism makes me a monster?

He's an alcoholic; take everything he says with a block of salt.
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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9/11/2012 10:36:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 10:26:07 AM, tulle wrote:
Lol badger... I work in suicide prevention but my atheism makes me a monster?

do you not believe it ultimately for your own benefit and thus selfish no matter how you dress it up? because if not, you subscribe to something magical.
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badger
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9/11/2012 10:38:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 10:32:50 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/11/2012 10:26:07 AM, tulle wrote:
Lol badger... I work in suicide prevention but my atheism makes me a monster?

He's an alcoholic; take everything he says with a block of salt.

how many greats throughout history were partial to intoxication? how do you measure up? ad homs alone don't cut it dude...
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tulle
Posts: 4,445
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9/11/2012 10:41:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At Alex --- please forgive the typos, I've moved to using my phone.

Those are good questions and in terms of "fast tracking" to the afterlife, that's a question a theist would have to answer. I've asked that myself on this site before.

In terms of delusion, you'd be surprised how impressionable our brains are. Its really not that hard to convince yourself of something. See "cognitive dissonance". There is a lot of power in language. I sound like a crazy person, i know. Hopefully someone else can understand what im trying to say and make sense of it for me :p I've got to go for now.
yang.
badger
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9/11/2012 10:42:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
thomas harris dubbed his hero hannibal lecter the renowned psychologist the monster. and then showed us how similar we really are to him.
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badger
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9/11/2012 10:50:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
i dunno. i just think that of but a mechanical universe comes but a monstrous being, uncaring but in want or in delusion of want as tulle speaks of. make beauty of the delusion all you want i guess.
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badger
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9/11/2012 10:55:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 10:50:22 AM, badger wrote:
i dunno. i just think that of but a mechanical universe comes but a monstrous being, uncaring but in want or in delusion of want as tulle speaks of. make beauty of the delusion all you want i guess.

that would be in essence though to dream of God...
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badger
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9/11/2012 11:12:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
sorry to be real, but like jeez it was obvious. without God you're but a robot built by chance to survive...
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medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/11/2012 11:28:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 8:50:07 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 9/11/2012 8:49:02 AM, alex1094 wrote:
Atheists, what's the most convincing argument for the existence of God?

There is none. I have not seen any "arguments" that can't be easily refuted.

Theists, what's the most convincing argument for atheism?

I always found the incoherence of Christianity/Theism to be good.


For me personally as an atheist, I'd say it's the fine tuning of the universe argument.

LOL!, the fine tuning argument is so fallacious. In fact, using its own logic, we can PROVE atheism!

What's to prove, atheism is merely a lack of belief and nothing more, right?? And you can't prove a negative according to most atheists, so how can you prove atheism??

Ha, lmao...where was this quote when I needed it for my debate??
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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9/11/2012 3:25:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 8:49:02 AM, alex1094 wrote:
Atheists, what's the most convincing argument for the existence of God?
Theists, what's the most convincing argument for atheism?

There are only arguments against certain types of Gods, so no argument can really disprove theism. The problem of evil for example does not disprove the deistic God only certain Gods, and the paradox of the stone only applies to certain views of omnipotence. The strongest thing atheists can do is refute the arguments for God. My certain degree of uncertainty about the arguments for God is what pushes me nearest to atheism so I would say that.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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9/11/2012 3:39:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 8:49:02 AM, alex1094 wrote:
Atheists, what's the most convincing argument for the existence of God?

KRFournier's presentation of the KCA has been the most convincing argument for the possible existence of a god that I've seen.

http://www.debate.org...
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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9/11/2012 3:54:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 3:39:02 PM, Enji wrote:
At 9/11/2012 8:49:02 AM, alex1094 wrote:
Atheists, what's the most convincing argument for the existence of God?

KRFournier's presentation of the KCA has been the most convincing argument for the possible existence of a god that I've seen.

http://www.debate.org...

How so? The debate was about the implications of the Kalam. All he attempted to prove was that if the KCA was correct, the cause was probably God. The premises that the universe began to exist and everything that begins to exist has a cause were not debated.

Though as far as what was debated went, yes he did a good job.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)