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Like it or not, God is immoral.

GreatestIam
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9/12/2012 5:49:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Like it or not, God is immoral.

This clip shows how man has defined morality. I generally agree with it as it closely resembles the morality shown in all the holy books. I see them as closely resembling the golden rule.

http://blog.ted.com...

This clip show how what I see as a good representation of moral men judging God"s morality. I agree with their verdict and judge God to be immoral.

From the above and from all that we know of God as depicted in the Bible, one can only conclude that God is immoral.

All those with intelligence who can discern moral actions from immoral actions will agree.

Moral actions for this exercise will be those issues where God interacts with humans.

If you do not agree that God is immoral from what you have heard above, then give your reason and I will show that God chose the immoral path in whatever action you choose to use as your example of his moral action. That or I will show that any of his altruistic acts are self-serving.

Regards
DL
TheAsylum
Posts: 772
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9/12/2012 5:57:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 5:49:46 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Like it or not, God is immoral.

You must first define moral properly(Which If God exist, only He knows). Then you must show that man is in fact moral himself. In the end, you must then show that man's moral value's are subject to God.

Is obeying your parent's moral?
EricPrice
Posts: 79
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9/12/2012 8:05:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 5:57:32 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/12/2012 5:49:46 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Like it or not, God is immoral.

You must first define moral properly(Which If God exist, only He knows). Then you must show that man is in fact moral himself. In the end, you must then show that man's moral value's are subject to God.

Is obeying your parent's moral?

"Morality" refers to the human practice of adopting social "mores" as guides to behavior. Since humans determine what these mores will consist of, and how they will be enforced, I think the assumption that "humans are moral" is a fairly safe bet.

As to "definitions," I think we should also define precisely which god mankind's moral systems are "subject" to. I assume that most people are referring to the AIDS god, Jesus - as opposed to the thunder god, Thor, or the Hurricane god Poseidon. If this is the case here, I will not have my moral codes second guessed by this murderous sexual pervert any more than I would allow Jeffrey Dahmer to lecture me on my manners.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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9/12/2012 8:08:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 8:05:16 AM, EricPrice wrote:
At 9/12/2012 5:57:32 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/12/2012 5:49:46 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Like it or not, God is immoral.

You must first define moral properly(Which If God exist, only He knows). Then you must show that man is in fact moral himself. In the end, you must then show that man's moral value's are subject to God.

Is obeying your parent's moral?

"Morality" refers to the human practice of adopting social "mores" as guides to behavior. Since humans determine what these mores will consist of, and how they will be enforced, I think the assumption that "humans are moral" is a fairly safe bet.

lol

As to "definitions," I think we should also define precisely which god mankind's moral systems are "subject" to. I assume that most people are referring to the AIDS god, Jesus - as opposed to the thunder god, Thor, or the Hurricane god Poseidon. If this is the case here, I will not have my moral codes second guessed by this murderous sexual pervert any more than I would allow Jeffrey Dahmer to lecture me on my manners.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
GreatestIam
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9/12/2012 8:57:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 5:57:32 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/12/2012 5:49:46 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Like it or not, God is immoral.

You must first define moral properly(Which If God exist, only He knows). Then you must show that man is in fact moral himself. In the end, you must then show that man's moral value's are subject to God.

Is obeying your parent's moral?

That would depend on what the parent is asking of the child would it not?

If a parent tells a child to not go to school as stay as bright as a brick, should the child follow such a command?

I would think that the moral thing to do is for the child to ignore such a command.

Do you agree?

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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9/12/2012 9:01:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 8:05:16 AM, EricPrice wrote:
At 9/12/2012 5:57:32 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/12/2012 5:49:46 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Like it or not, God is immoral.

You must first define moral properly(Which If God exist, only He knows). Then you must show that man is in fact moral himself. In the end, you must then show that man's moral value's are subject to God.

Is obeying your parent's moral?

"Morality" refers to the human practice of adopting social "mores" as guides to behavior. Since humans determine what these mores will consist of, and how they will be enforced, I think the assumption that "humans are moral" is a fairly safe bet.

As to "definitions," I think we should also define precisely which god mankind's moral systems are "subject" to. I assume that most people are referring to the AIDS god, Jesus - as opposed to the thunder god, Thor, or the Hurricane god Poseidon. If this is the case here, I will not have my moral codes second guessed by this murderous sexual pervert any more than I would allow Jeffrey Dahmer to lecture me on my manners.

+ 1

Notice how the last thing believers want to talk about is anything to do with morality.

Regards
DL
EricPrice
Posts: 79
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9/12/2012 9:29:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think that most theists will end up arguing that their god is "moral" as a necessary component of his nature - he is moral because he is the author of morality. I am sure that I am not required to point out how silly this notion is.

As to the morality of the bible: it has long been obvious that anyone willing to obey the dictums of Jesus, or of the bible and Koran in general - as these books are written - is an extremely dangerous person. Any such "moralist" is very likely to be criminally insane.

Since the bible commands criminal behavior, such as murdering one's own children, criminality is a necessary component of Jedeo-Christian-Islamic religion.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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9/12/2012 11:41:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Like it or not, you're an idiot.

Like it or not, Christ is going to return.

Like it or not, you will probably sh*t your pants.

Like it or not, you are going to scream and cry for mercy.

Like it or not, you are going to regret every moment of your life, and wish you were never born.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
EricPrice
Posts: 79
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9/12/2012 12:12:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 11:41:33 AM, Paradox_7 wrote:
Like it or not, you're an idiot.

Like it or not, Christ is going to return.

Like it or not, you will probably sh*t your pants.

Like it or not, you are going to scream and cry for mercy.

Like it or not, you are going to regret every moment of your life, and wish you were never born.

This type of statement lends credence to the argument that Christians enjoy their stories for the sadistic fantasies that they describe.

And offers further support for the claim that the Christian gods are not moral.
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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9/12/2012 1:14:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 11:41:33 AM, Paradox_7 wrote:
Like it or not, you're an idiot.

Like it or not, Christ is going to return.

Like it or not, you will probably sh*t your pants.

Like it or not, you are going to scream and cry for mercy.

Like it or not, you are going to regret every moment of your life, and wish you were never born.

You sound like your God.
Threats and more threats.
Fear God my friend, he sounds like as big a dick wad as you do.

Regards
DL
slo1
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9/12/2012 1:17:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 9:01:53 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 9/12/2012 8:05:16 AM, EricPrice wrote:
At 9/12/2012 5:57:32 AM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/12/2012 5:49:46 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Like it or not, God is immoral.

You must first define moral properly(Which If God exist, only He knows). Then you must show that man is in fact moral himself. In the end, you must then show that man's moral value's are subject to God.

Is obeying your parent's moral?

"Morality" refers to the human practice of adopting social "mores" as guides to behavior. Since humans determine what these mores will consist of, and how they will be enforced, I think the assumption that "humans are moral" is a fairly safe bet.

As to "definitions," I think we should also define precisely which god mankind's moral systems are "subject" to. I assume that most people are referring to the AIDS god, Jesus - as opposed to the thunder god, Thor, or the Hurricane god Poseidon. If this is the case here, I will not have my moral codes second guessed by this murderous sexual pervert any more than I would allow Jeffrey Dahmer to lecture me on my manners.

+ 1

Notice how the last thing believers want to talk about is anything to do with morality.

Regards
DL

Which is very ironic as it is claimed morality comes from God. Fundamentally for many Christians morality is nothing more than a curiosity. Forgiveness wipes away immorality, and along with belief in Jesus, and being baptized makes someone perfect and eligible to enter heaven.

Also ironically, someone who largely lives in a moral way and has less sins and less imperfection on earth, is not eligible unless he gets forgiven and has the two other prerequisites.

To sum it all up Fundamental Christians are ruled by fear because God demands it. It all gets wrapped by a bow called Love to hide the valid questions such as these of why one would worship something so cruel.

The basic counter to the above is that I can't understand God. There is truth to that statement, but also by their own beliefs I have the capability to understand what is good and what is bad. Old testament God is bad.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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9/12/2012 1:25:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 5:49:46 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Like it or not, God is immoral.

This clip shows how man has defined morality. I generally agree with it as it closely resembles the morality shown in all the holy books. I see them as closely resembling the golden rule.

http://blog.ted.com...

This clip show how what I see as a good representation of moral men judging God"s morality. I agree with their verdict and judge God to be immoral.



From the above and from all that we know of God as depicted in the Bible, one can only conclude that God is immoral.

All those with intelligence who can discern moral actions from immoral actions will agree.

Moral actions for this exercise will be those issues where God interacts with humans.

If you do not agree that God is immoral from what you have heard above, then give your reason and I will show that God chose the immoral path in whatever action you choose to use as your example of his moral action. That or I will show that any of his altruistic acts are self-serving.

Regards
DL

Lol. I've seen this before. Whoever made it hasn't studied the bible (the Israelites DID offer peace to whoever wanted it).
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
TheAsylum
Posts: 772
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9/12/2012 2:21:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
That would depend on what the parent is asking of the child would it not?:
Only if you think a child has the right to make judgement for themselves and dis obey his or her's parents, reagrdless the demand.

If a parent tells a child to not go to school as stay as bright as a brick, should the child follow such a command?:

Yes, the child should.

I would think that the moral thing to do is for the child to ignore such a command.

Do you agree?
No, I do not.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/12/2012 2:39:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The OP should be rephrased so that the intellectually dishonest don't go and say "by what moral standard?"

I rephrase it as such:

Acts that all decent human beings believe to be repulsive such as genocide, rape, infanticide, lying, and senseless violence have been either committed or commanded by the being known as Yahweh.

Your only defense then would have to be that because God slaughters the masses, this act is ok. But clearly no decent human being could say with a straight face that this is morally good.

Go tell a Holocaust survivor that genocide is moral if you truly believe that.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Wnope
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9/12/2012 2:40:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 11:41:33 AM, Paradox_7 wrote:
Like it or not, you're an idiot.

Like it or not, Christ is going to return.

Like it or not, you will probably sh*t your pants.

Like it or not, you are going to scream and cry for mercy.

Like it or not, you are going to regret every moment of your life, and wish you were never born.

I'll admit, if Christ comes back, I'll be engaged in at least an hour of straight profanity.
TheAsylum
Posts: 772
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9/12/2012 2:44:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 2:39:20 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
The OP should be rephrased so that the intellectually dishonest don't go and say "by what moral standard?"

I rephrase it as such:

Acts that all decent human beings believe to be repulsive such as genocide, rape, infanticide, lying, and senseless violence have been either committed or commanded by the being known as Yahweh.

Your only defense then would have to be that because God slaughters the masses, this act is ok. But clearly no decent human being could say with a straight face that this is morally good.

Go tell a Holocaust survivor that genocide is moral if you truly believe that.

You got nerve to talk about honesty with a straight face after that post? LOL. When men start being honest with themselves about the things the do which cause these things then you mite be honest.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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9/12/2012 2:48:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 12:12:00 PM, EricPrice wrote:
At 9/12/2012 11:41:33 AM, Paradox_7 wrote:
Like it or not, you're an idiot.

Like it or not, Christ is going to return.

Like it or not, you will probably sh*t your pants.

Like it or not, you are going to scream and cry for mercy.

Like it or not, you are going to regret every moment of your life, and wish you were never born.

This type of statement lends credence to the argument that Christians enjoy their stories for the sadistic fantasies that they describe.

And offers further support for the claim that the Christian gods are not moral.


Enjoy? I'm merely giving you a heads up.

Lol, how can you even talk about morality.. all I have to say is: "nope, not to me", and I would be right.

Because in your mind, there are only subjective morals; do what you want, doesn't really matter-- if someone tells you you're wrong-- they're immoral.

-_-

wow.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
EricPrice
Posts: 79
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9/12/2012 2:52:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I want to make it clear just how sickeningly immoral the entire Christian religion is - without hyperbole. This is difficult.

Consider: Christians often say that they think that there is a place called "Hell" within which Jesus sends people who do not telepathically tell him they love him. Hell is a place of eternal torment.

What parent - what parent who actually believes this - would be such an irresponsible gambler, that they would not murder their own children in infancy? There is always the slim chance that any particular child may grow up to become an apostate, or may accidentally deny the divinity of Christ. These sins can never be forgiven, no matter how inadvertently they were committed, and no matter how contrite the perpetrator.

It simply does not make sense - from the Christian worldview - to allow this possibility to realize itself. None. Any responsible parent who actually believed in Heaven, Hell, and Salvation - would instantly murder any child that was certain to go to Heaven if killed at that moment.

Any other action is so absurd as to be beyond discussion. Considering what "Hell" is, there is no other reasonable action possible, because anything is better than an eternity of torment - even infanticide.
TheAsylum
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9/12/2012 3:09:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 2:52:37 PM, EricPrice wrote:
I want to make it clear just how sickeningly immoral the entire Christian religion is - without hyperbole. This is difficult.

Consider: Christians often say that they think that there is a place called "Hell" within which Jesus sends people who do not telepathically tell him they love him. Hell is a place of eternal torment.

What parent - what parent who actually believes this - would be such an irresponsible gambler, that they would not murder their own children in infancy? There is always the slim chance that any particular child may grow up to become an apostate, or may accidentally deny the divinity of Christ. These sins can never be forgiven, no matter how inadvertently they were committed, and no matter how contrite the perpetrator.

It simply does not make sense - from the Christian worldview - to allow this possibility to realize itself. None. Any responsible parent who actually believed in Heaven, Hell, and Salvation - would instantly murder any child that was certain to go to Heaven if killed at that moment.

Any other action is so absurd as to be beyond discussion. Considering what "Hell" is, there is no other reasonable action possible, because anything is better than an eternity of torment - even infanticide.

I am sorry, Sir, you made no sense.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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9/12/2012 3:19:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 2:52:37 PM, EricPrice wrote:
I want to make it clear just how sickeningly immoral the entire Christian religion is - without hyperbole. This is difficult.

You reveal only that you have no understanding of Christianity.

Consider: Christians often say that they think that there is a place called "Hell" within which Jesus sends people who do not telepathically tell him they love him. Hell is a place of eternal torment.

Wrong. Christ saves those whom his father gives him, of no merit of their own. We all deserve punishment, and none of us would consider Christ, unless he forced us too.

What parent - what parent who actually believes this - would be such an irresponsible gambler, that they would not murder their own children in infancy? There is always the slim chance that any particular child may grow up to become an apostate, or may accidentally deny the divinity of Christ. These sins can never be forgiven, no matter how inadvertently they were committed, and no matter how contrite the perpetrator.

I've denied Christ many times in my early youth, and I know many ex-atheists who've done this too; Peter the apostle, denied Christ 3 times-- this, is blasphemy. However, I am forgiven. All who've been chosen, have been forgiven.

It simply does not make sense - from the Christian worldview - to allow this possibility to realize itself. None. Any responsible parent who actually believed in Heaven, Hell, and Salvation - would instantly murder any child that was certain to go to Heaven if killed at that moment.

This is the most rediculous thing i've ever seen.

Our childrens lives, do not belong to us-- we cannot murder our children in hope of them being sent to heaven; we have no idea who is saved and who is not. We simply hold on to God promises.

Any other action is so absurd as to be beyond discussion. Considering what "Hell" is, there is no other reasonable action possible, because anything is better than an eternity of torment - even infanticide.


You don't seem to mind the possibility of going to hell; after all you still openly blaspheme.

Your entire argument is annoying and pathetic.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
medic0506
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9/12/2012 6:47:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What man has the authority to say what morality a God must adhere to?? No man is omniscient, thus no man can know what God should in a given situation. I find any argument against God's morality totally without credibility.
TheAsylum
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9/12/2012 6:49:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 6:47:29 PM, medic0506 wrote:
What man has the authority to say what morality a God must adhere to?? No man is omniscient, thus no man can know what God should in a given situation. I find any argument against God's morality totally without credibility.

That is because most men think their moral judgement is the be-all of moral character. Then God must adhere to that.
MattDescopa
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9/12/2012 6:53:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 6:49:35 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/12/2012 6:47:29 PM, medic0506 wrote:
What man has the authority to say what morality a God must adhere to?? No man is omniscient, thus no man can know what God should in a given situation. I find any argument against God's morality totally without credibility.

That is because most men think their moral judgement is the be-all of moral character. Then God must adhere to that.

Amen brother.
medic0506
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9/12/2012 7:13:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 6:49:35 PM, TheAsylum wrote:
At 9/12/2012 6:47:29 PM, medic0506 wrote:
What man has the authority to say what morality a God must adhere to?? No man is omniscient, thus no man can know what God should in a given situation. I find any argument against God's morality totally without credibility.

That is because most men think their moral judgement is the be-all of moral character. Then God must adhere to that.

Couldn't agree more, my point exactly.
GreatestIam
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9/13/2012 8:30:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 1:17:11 PM, slo1 wrote:

Which is very ironic as it is claimed morality comes from God. Fundamentally for many Christians morality is nothing more than a curiosity. Forgiveness wipes away immorality, and along with belief in Jesus, and being baptized makes someone perfect and eligible to enter heaven.

Also ironically, someone who largely lives in a moral way and has less sins and less imperfection on earth, is not eligible unless he gets forgiven and has the two other prerequisites.

To sum it all up Fundamental Christians are ruled by fear because God demands it. It all gets wrapped by a bow called Love to hide the valid questions such as these of why one would worship something so cruel.

The basic counter to the above is that I can't understand God. There is truth to that statement, but also by their own beliefs I have the capability to understand what is good and what is bad. Old testament God is bad.

You see 20/20.

Regards
DL
TheAsylum
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9/13/2012 8:33:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/13/2012 8:30:54 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 9/12/2012 1:17:11 PM, slo1 wrote:

Which is very ironic as it is claimed morality comes from God. Fundamentally for many Christians morality is nothing more than a curiosity. Forgiveness wipes away immorality, and along with belief in Jesus, and being baptized makes someone perfect and eligible to enter heaven.

Also ironically, someone who largely lives in a moral way and has less sins and less imperfection on earth, is not eligible unless he gets forgiven and has the two other prerequisites.

To sum it all up Fundamental Christians are ruled by fear because God demands it. It all gets wrapped by a bow called Love to hide the valid questions such as these of why one would worship something so cruel.

The basic counter to the above is that I can't understand God. There is truth to that statement, but also by their own beliefs I have the capability to understand what is good and what is bad. Old testament God is bad.

You see 20/20.

Regards
DL

Yeah, yall see 20/20 alright. So, stop putting your hands over your eyes and look and see.
GreatestIam
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9/13/2012 8:36:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 2:11:39 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
I don't see how committing genocide is immoral if Allah does it.

Any God would be able to either kill or cure those he thought defective.
Strange for any God to take the label of genocidal maniac instead of great healer or doctor.

You have God taking the moral low ground instead of the moral high ground.
Rather a Satan lie characteristic and certainly not God like.

Regards
DL