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KeithKroeger91
Posts: 178
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9/17/2009 9:16:27 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Find it funny how atheists always attack theists on being illogical to believe in any type of God just because there are so many belief systems of God. Could it be that there are so many religions because people have a supernatural longing for God? Something unexplained, that causes people to want to come closer to a God? Regardless of which God that is? Oh and don't tell me it is wishful thinking on behalf of Christianity because why would people want to join a "false" faith which teaches that we are all bad sinful people? It doesn't make any sense.
In fact I would say that is wishful thinking on behalf of atheism since they choose to believe that they do not need to answer to anyone or anything and they do not have to follow a moral code like Christians do. Honestly if you came to a kid and gave him a choice between following a set of rules to follow all throughout school but then offered the other choice where he does not need to follow any set of rules and he's free to do what he likes(with no rules or guidelines). What choice do you think the kid would choose? Please answer this question honestly.

In deciding whether I will believe in a certain type of God vs. the universe coming from absolutely nothing at all I choose God.

Atheism is not logically sound. You have a better chance of 20 cars being created through a random explosion then you do having this completely structured order of our earth being created through one.
I win ;D
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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9/17/2009 9:40:19 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 9:16:27 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Find it funny how atheists always attack theists on being illogical to believe in any type of God just because there are so many belief systems of God. Could it be that there are so many religions because people have a supernatural longing for God? Something unexplained, that causes people to want to come closer to a God?

Does the fact that most cultures have had some type of dragon myth mean that they existed? Come on, now.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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KeithKroeger91
Posts: 178
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9/17/2009 9:41:47 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 9:40:19 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 9/17/2009 9:16:27 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Find it funny how atheists always attack theists on being illogical to believe in any type of God just because there are so many belief systems of God. Could it be that there are so many religions because people have a supernatural longing for God? Something unexplained, that causes people to want to come closer to a God?

Does the fact that most cultures have had some type of dragon myth mean that they existed? Come on, now.

Dinosaurs possibly? Have you ever noticed how similar these "dragons" look to dinosaurs?
I win ;D
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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9/17/2009 10:03:23 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 9:41:47 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 9/17/2009 9:40:19 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 9/17/2009 9:16:27 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Find it funny how atheists always attack theists on being illogical to believe in any type of God just because there are so many belief systems of God. Could it be that there are so many religions because people have a supernatural longing for God? Something unexplained, that causes people to want to come closer to a God?

Does the fact that most cultures have had some type of dragon myth mean that they existed? Come on, now.

Dinosaurs possibly? Have you ever noticed how similar these "dragons" look to dinosaurs?

No
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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KeithKroeger91
Posts: 178
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9/17/2009 10:32:32 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 10:03:23 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 9/17/2009 9:41:47 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 9/17/2009 9:40:19 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 9/17/2009 9:16:27 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Find it funny how atheists always attack theists on being illogical to believe in any type of God just because there are so many belief systems of God. Could it be that there are so many religions because people have a supernatural longing for God? Something unexplained, that causes people to want to come closer to a God?

Does the fact that most cultures have had some type of dragon myth mean that they existed? Come on, now.

Dinosaurs possibly? Have you ever noticed how similar these "dragons" look to dinosaurs?

No

Are you sure your not just being close minded? ;p
I win ;D
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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9/17/2009 10:37:03 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 10:32:32 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Are you sure your not just being close minded? ;p

Seeing as though we know the relative ages of dinosaurs; and that said age does not correspond with any period in which humanity has existed... No.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
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9/17/2009 10:54:21 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 9:16:27 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Find it funny how atheists always attack theists on being illogical to believe in any type of God just because there are so many belief systems of God. Could it be that there are so many religions because people have a supernatural longing for God?

Scratch "super".

Many people have a need for there to be a god, yes. That doesn't mean there is one. And the argument that this common need for a god is proof for god doesn't hold, because if god had planted a need for god, he would have planted some sort of knowledge of what god was.

A god planting in us a desire that makes us believe, but believe wildly different things, resulting in us killing each other over those believes, is a god that is as supernaturally evil as only gods can be. So if you argue that a desire for god is there because god planted it there, then you are arguing that god is evil.
So prove me wrong, then.
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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9/17/2009 11:18:58 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 9:16:27 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Find it funny how atheists always attack theists on being illogical to believe in any type of God just because there are so many belief systems of God.

The more religions there are, the less likely it is that yours is right. If the reward is life and the punishment is death, anything less than a 50% chance is an illogical belief.

Could it be that there are so many religions because people have a supernatural longing for God? Something unexplained, that causes people to want to come closer to a God?

Studies have shown that there are parts of the brain that make us wish there was a God. Other studies show that pointing a really strong magnet at the brain can induce religious experiences... seems to me that God is in our heads.

Regardless of which God that is?

Bad idea - most religions say they're right and the others are wrong. So it obviously matters.

Oh and don't tell me it is wishful thinking on behalf of Christianity because why would people want to join a "false" faith which teaches that we are all bad sinful people? It doesn't make any sense.

I come to your door selling widgets. I tell you that your life is literally incomplete and not worth living unless you buy a widget. I you don't believe my claim about the widgets you're going to hell. If you do, you might get a new car later. Widgets cost 10% of all your earnings, and you must only have 1/5 of the fun you usually could. Are you going to buy a widget on the off chance that you might get the car?

In fact I would say that is wishful thinking on behalf of atheism since they choose to believe that they do not need to answer to anyone or anything and they do not have to follow a moral code like Christians do.

Wrong. Atheists are just as moral as Christians. Our moral code just doesn't include things like ostracizing gays and nonbelievers. Atheists don't answer to anyone because there is no higher power to answer TO - it's a completely meaningless point.

Honestly if you came to a kid and gave him a choice between following a set of rules to follow all throughout school but then offered the other choice where he does not need to follow any set of rules and he's free to do what he likes (with no rules or guidelines). What choice do you think the kid would choose? Please answer this question honestly.

He'll take the second option of course... which makes me wonder why you haven't? The rules are dumb and don't mean anything except voluntary repression.

In deciding whether I will believe in a certain type of God vs. the universe coming from absolutely nothing at all I choose God.

Good for you. I bet you chose not to pay attention in science class too.

Atheism is not logically sound.

False. In cases of a metaphysical claim, lack of evidence IS evidence of lack until proven otherwise. Atheists are only atheist in the same sense that all persons are a-fairy-ist.

You have a better chance of 20 cars being created through a random explosion then you do having this completely structured order of our earth being created through one.

False. Obviously, since the earth exists and explosion-cars do not, the earth has a greater chance of existing over the same period of time. Furthermore, the earth is NOT completely structured... Now I'm SURE you chose not to pay attention in science class. You look at the platypus and tell me that's structured.
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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9/17/2009 11:30:05 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Atheism is not logically sound.

It's logically impossible or incoherent for a god to not exist? I can see how it may be evidential, but dang you have one strong claim there. Lay it on me.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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9/17/2009 11:44:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
because why would people want to join a "false" faith which teaches that we are all bad sinful people?
Because they know or think THEY are bad sinful people, they aren't willing to change it, and they can't stand anyone doing any better since that makes them feel bad, so they handwave it as uneal?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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9/17/2009 11:45:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
*unreal*
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/17/2009 11:46:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 9:16:27 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Find it funny how atheists always attack theists on being illogical to believe in any type of God just because there are so many belief systems of God. Could it be that there are so many religions because people have a supernatural longing for God?
Something unexplained, that causes people to want to come closer to a God? Regardless of which God that is? Oh and don't tell me it is wishful thinking on behalf of Christianity because why would people want to join a "false" faith which teaches that we are all bad sinful people? It doesn't make any sense.

Actually that can be explained in psychological terms, though it does not preclude the possibility that we do have this 'supernatural longing'. The whole atheists attacking theists etc... is based on the tendency of some of the latter to condemn the former (and indeed fellow theists) to hell on the basis of an arbritary choice.

If I am confronted by 4 preachers, one Christian, one Muslim, One Jewish and one Stephen Hawking on what basis do I decide whom to follow? There is no real evidence for any of them... what am I to do... why should this choice potentially consign me to hell?

In fact I would say that is wishful thinking on behalf of atheism since they choose to believe that they do not need to answer to anyone or anything and they do not have to follow a moral code like Christians do.

What the....?
So I guess I am a murdering raping crack smoking baby impaler. I can't have morality because I dont believe in Jesus?

Honestly if you came to a kid and gave him a choice between following a set of rules to follow all throughout school but then offered the other choice where he does not need to follow any set of rules and he's free to do what he likes(with no rules or guidelines). What choice do you think the kid would choose? Please answer this question honestly.

Depends on the age and intelligence of the child. For most of my childhood I would have selected the former.

In deciding whether I will believe in a certain type of God vs. the universe coming from absolutely nothing at all I choose God.

Atheism is not logically sound. You have a better chance of 20 cars being created through a random explosion then you do having this completely structured order of our earth being created through one.

Prove it, show me the mathematics?
You will find that you could only support this sort of random chance argument unless you knew the number of 'opportunities' or perhaps multiverses that exist. For example if I spin a coin on a flat service there is say a one in 10,000 chance that the coin will still be standing when it stops spinning. If I try this once it is unlikely to occur, if I try it ten million times it is almost gaurenteed.

How many failed 'earths' are there?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/17/2009 11:46:56 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 9:40:19 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 9/17/2009 9:16:27 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Find it funny how atheists always attack theists on being illogical to believe in any type of God just because there are so many belief systems of God. Could it be that there are so many religions because people have a supernatural longing for God? Something unexplained, that causes people to want to come closer to a God?

Does the fact that most cultures have had some type of dragon myth mean that they existed? Come on, now.

I like to think so...
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
LB628
Posts: 176
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9/18/2009 12:00:17 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
1: Ad populum. Simply because many believe it, does not mean it is true.

2: Belief in the supernatural is simply an extension of pattern-recognition. It is beneficial for the survival of humans to have the ability to recognize patterns in behavior and information over time. This is simply extended to recognizing larger patterns, even when no such patterns exist. This lends itself to belief in a "divine plan".
regebro
Posts: 1,152
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9/18/2009 1:11:45 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 11:46:56 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/17/2009 9:40:19 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 9/17/2009 9:16:27 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Find it funny how atheists always attack theists on being illogical to believe in any type of God just because there are so many belief systems of God. Could it be that there are so many religions because people have a supernatural longing for God? Something unexplained, that causes people to want to come closer to a God?

Does the fact that most cultures have had some type of dragon myth mean that they existed? Come on, now.

I like to think so...

Yeah, you like to think so. But you usually don't *actually* think so. :-) Because that would be greatly illogical. Because most cultures have legends of god that live on mountains, with thunder gods riding wagons in the sky and throwing lightning. And we *know* that to be false. We know this is just a standard logical way of explaining lightning before we figured out how it actually worked. And we have now climbed all these various mountains, and guess what: No gods.

And secondly most cultures have NOT had some type of dragon myth. In fact only one culture had: Western civilisation. That dragon myth appeared during the middle ages, btw, so it's fairly recent, no more than 1500 years.

But what about Chinese dragons you say? Well, that's a completely different myth with completely different creatures. The asian dragon is typically a water spirit of some sort, and benevolent and does not breathe fire. In china it sometimes flies, but it has no wings. So in fact it is nothing like the western dragon, except that both usually are depicted as having scales. We just use the same word for it (which also is a recent development).
So prove me wrong, then.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
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9/18/2009 2:30:17 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/18/2009 1:51:04 AM, Puck wrote:
By such logic, there were actually talking animals at some point.

Still is. I talk. :-) And so does parrots.

(Just teasing. It's actually a very good example.)
So prove me wrong, then.
Floid
Posts: 751
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9/18/2009 4:33:27 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Find it funny how atheists always attack theists on being illogical

I would say believing something exists because someone wrote it thousands of years ago and that has since been undemonstrative is illogical by definition. You haven't been vacationing in Atlantis with Leprechauns lately have you?

Could it be that there are so many religions because people have a supernatural longing for God? Something unexplained, that causes people to want to come closer to a God? Regardless of which God that is?

Sure, or it could be that the idea of God was invented by primitive, barbaric people to explain things they had no other explanation for. This would also explain why the all powerful creator of the universe once gave those people a long list of who to stone to death (among other things), so it seems much more likely.

Oh and don't tell me it is wishful thinking on behalf of Christianity because why would people want to join a "false" faith which teaches that we are all bad sinful people? It doesn't make any sense.

You are right, the idea that all of humanity is inherently bad and deserves eternal torture does not make sense.

In fact I would say that is wishful thinking on behalf of atheism

How is admitting what I do not know wishful thinking? It is a statement of fact.

kid and gave him a choice between following a set of rules to follow all throughout school but then offered the other choice where he does not need to follow any set of rules and he's free to do what he likes(with no rules or guidelines). What choice do you think the kid would choose?

If I went to a kid and asked him if he would want to eternally torture everyone who didn't worship him, what would that child say? Most are smart enough to realize how perverse that idea is... so why exactly isn't the supposed all powerful creator of the universe?

In deciding whether I will believe in a certain type of God vs. the universe coming from absolutely nothing at all I choose God.

In deciding whether I believe a certain type of God vs. the universe coming from absolutely nothing at all I choose to admit that I don't know. But I am pretty certain someone 4,000 years ago didn't know either.

Atheism is not logically sound. You have a better chance of 20 cars being created through a random explosion then you do having this completely structured order of our earth being created through one.

And what exactly is the chance of the particular God you believe in randomly existing? Please provide those odds as well for a proper basis of comparison.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/18/2009 11:12:07 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/18/2009 1:11:45 AM, regebro wrote:
At 9/17/2009 11:46:56 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/17/2009 9:40:19 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 9/17/2009 9:16:27 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Find it funny how atheists always attack theists on being illogical to believe in any type of God just because there are so many belief systems of God. Could it be that there are so many religions because people have a supernatural longing for God? Something unexplained, that causes people to want to come closer to a God?

Does the fact that most cultures have had some type of dragon myth mean that they existed? Come on, now.

I like to think so...

Yeah, you like to think so. But you usually don't *actually* think so. :-)

Yes, exactly right.

But what about Chinese dragons you say? Well, that's a completely different myth with completely different creatures. The asian dragon is typically a water spirit of some sort, and benevolent and does not breathe fire. In china it sometimes flies, but it has no wings. So in fact it is nothing like the western dragon, except that both usually are depicted as having scales. We just use the same word for it (which also is a recent development).

Hmm... they are both generally large flying lizards right?

Incidentally there is a fascinating similarity between one 'species' of Greek vampire (of which they had many) and one type of Chinese vampire. I seem to recall they both cut their victims with their nails, if you throw corn in front of the Greek Vampire it has to pause and count the grains before proceeding, for the Chinese its rice... and I think there is something else.

But I suppose that can be put down to,
a) conicidence
b) cultural exchange
c) jungian stuff
d) vampires are real...
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
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9/18/2009 12:42:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/18/2009 11:12:07 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Hmm... they are both generally large flying lizards right?

European Dragons are usually depicted as being rather bird-like rather than lizard-like.

Incidentally there is a fascinating similarity between one 'species' of Greek vampire (of which they had many) and one type of Chinese vampire. I seem to recall they both cut their victims with their nails, if you throw corn in front of the Greek Vampire it has to pause and count the grains before proceeding, for the Chinese its rice... and I think there is something else.

Yeah, that sounds like those stories could have the same origin.
So prove me wrong, then.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/18/2009 12:47:32 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/18/2009 12:42:02 PM, regebro wrote:
At 9/18/2009 11:12:07 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Hmm... they are both generally large flying lizards right?

European Dragons are usually depicted as being rather bird-like rather than lizard-like.


Really, there is a marked tendency towards towards the serpentine and the myths are older than you suggest.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

But as you say there are still significant differences.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
I-am-a-panda
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9/18/2009 12:48:25 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/18/2009 11:12:07 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Incidentally there is a fascinating similarity between one 'species' of Greek vampire (of which they had many) and one type of Chinese vampire. I seem to recall they both cut their victims with their nails, if you throw corn in front of the Greek Vampire it has to pause and count the grains before proceeding, for the Chinese its rice... and I think there is something else.

1) Proof of such tales

2) What year are they from? If they're after Alexander empire, than it's entirely possible they're the exact same myth.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
KeithKroeger91
Posts: 178
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9/18/2009 6:50:38 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 11:18:58 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 9/17/2009 9:16:27 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Find it funny how atheists always attack theists on being illogical to believe in any type of God just because there are so many belief systems of God.

The more religions there are, the less likely it is that yours is right. If the reward is life and the punishment is death, anything less than a 50% chance is an illogical belief.

Funny how you would say that, considering that you believe in the big bang that created the universe without a God which is FAR LESS then 50% http://www.leaderu.com...

Could it be that there are so many religions because people have a supernatural longing for God? Something unexplained, that causes people to want to come closer to a God?

Studies have shown that there are parts of the brain that make us wish there was a God. Other studies show that pointing a really strong magnet at the brain can induce religious experiences... seems to me that God is in our heads.

So evolution created humans with a brain that gave us a sense of God?

Regardless of which God that is?

Bad idea - most religions say they're right and the others are wrong. So it obviously matters.

I know it matters that is why I picked christianity to be my religion from a historical background.

Oh and don't tell me it is wishful thinking on behalf of Christianity because why would people want to join a "false" faith which teaches that we are all bad sinful people? It doesn't make any sense.

I come to your door selling widgets. I tell you that your life is literally incomplete and not worth living unless you buy a widget. I you don't believe my claim about the widgets you're going to hell. If you do, you might get a new car later. Widgets cost 10% of all your earnings, and you must only have 1/5 of the fun you usually could. Are you going to buy a widget on the off chance that you might get the car?

A person with wishful thinking would be skeptical of somebody who made that claim because they wish not to believe in a higher power outside of the realm perceived to be reality.


In fact I would say that is wishful thinking on behalf of atheism since they choose to believe that they do not need to answer to anyone or anything and they do not have to follow a moral code like Christians do.

Wrong. Atheists are just as moral as Christians. Our moral code just doesn't include things like ostracizing gays and nonbelievers. Atheists don't answer to anyone because there is no higher power to answer TO - it's a completely meaningless point.

No Atheists don't follow a strict moral code every atheist you speak to will have many ideas of what is moral and what is not moral. There is no hardline moral code for you guys to follow.


Honestly if you came to a kid and gave him a choice between following a set of rules to follow all throughout school but then offered the other choice where he does not need to follow any set of rules and he's free to do what he likes (with no rules or guidelines). What choice do you think the kid would choose? Please answer this question honestly.

He'll take the second option of course... which makes me wonder why you haven't? The rules are dumb and don't mean anything except voluntary repression.

Exactly, you get the point. It is indeed wishful thinking on behalf of atheism to believe that you should not follow a set of rules and morals and be free to do whatever they want without feeling guilt.


In deciding whether I will believe in a certain type of God vs. the universe coming from absolutely nothing at all I choose God.

Good for you. I bet you chose not to pay attention in science class too.

I probably payed just as much attention as you did in my science class.


Atheism is not logically sound.

False. In cases of a metaphysical claim, lack of evidence IS evidence of lack until proven otherwise. Atheists are only atheist in the same sense that all persons are a-fairy-ist.

Unfortunetly for you atheism has no logical support.


You have a better chance of 20 cars being created through a random explosion then you do having this completely structured order of our earth being created through one.

False. Obviously, since the earth exists and explosion-cars do not, the earth has a greater chance of existing over the same period of time. Furthermore, the earth is NOT completely structured... Now I'm SURE you chose not to pay attention in science class. You look at the platypus and tell me that's structured.

I believe in the Big bang for your information, even though it does meet some scientific challenges not yet explained whether you like it or not. But to believe that the big bang somehow randomly came about and created our perfect STRUCTURED universe without the help of a God is absolutely ludicrous.
Also the platypus is quite structured.
I win ;D
KeithKroeger91
Posts: 178
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9/18/2009 6:52:10 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 11:30:05 PM, TheSkeptic wrote:
Atheism is not logically sound.

It's logically impossible or incoherent for a god to not exist? I can see how it may be evidential, but dang you have one strong claim there. Lay it on me.

Atheism is not logically supported. You guys will never give a decent explanation to what actually set in motion the big bang.
I win ;D
KeithKroeger91
Posts: 178
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9/18/2009 7:24:22 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/18/2009 4:33:27 AM, Floid wrote:
Find it funny how atheists always attack theists on being illogical

I would say believing something exists because someone wrote it thousands of years ago and that has since been undemonstrative is illogical by definition. You haven't been vacationing in Atlantis with Leprechauns lately have you?

I am not sure what point you are trying to make here. You are saying just because something is real old that somehow makes it false?

Could it be that there are so many religions because people have a supernatural longing for God? Something unexplained, that causes people to want to come closer to a God? Regardless of which God that is?

Sure, or it could be that the idea of God was invented by primitive, barbaric people to explain things they had no other explanation for. This would also explain why the all powerful creator of the universe once gave those people a long list of who to stone to death (among other things), so it seems much more likely.

There is no other logical explanation to a first cause.



Oh and don't tell me it is wishful thinking on behalf of Christianity because why would people want to join a "false" faith which teaches that we are all bad sinful people? It doesn't make any sense.

You are right, the idea that all of humanity is inherently bad and deserves eternal torture does not make sense.

Thanks for twisting my words, you guys like to do that with the bible also. What I said was that it is wishful thinking for atheists to believe that we do not have to follow by a moral code. That was the point.



In fact I would say that is wishful thinking on behalf of atheism

How is admitting what I do not know wishful thinking? It is a statement of fact.

Are you atheist?



kid and gave him a choice between following a set of rules to follow all throughout school but then offered the other choice where he does not need to follow any set of rules and he's free to do what he likes(with no rules or guidelines). What choice do you think the kid would choose?

If I went to a kid and asked him if he would want to eternally torture everyone who didn't worship him, what would that child say? Most are smart enough to realize how perverse that idea is... so why exactly isn't the supposed all powerful creator of the universe?

God needs us to believe in Him(Jesus) to go Heaven. God does not want us to go to hell. But unfortunately for atheists God is a angry God, I am sure I would be upset too if I gave something life and it continued to defy my commands. Just imagine a being as perfect as He looking down on us and see how evil this place is. I mean just look around read your history. Humans by our very nature are evil.



In deciding whether I will believe in a certain type of God vs. the universe coming from absolutely nothing at all I choose God.

In deciding whether I believe a certain type of God vs. the universe coming from absolutely nothing at all I choose to admit that I don't know. But I am pretty certain someone 4,000 years ago didn't know either.

You can't know it is impossible, a logical person would accept a God creating the universe.


Atheism is not logically sound. You have a better chance of 20 cars being created through a random explosion then you do having this completely structured order of our earth being created through one.

And what exactly is the chance of the particular God you believe in randomly existing? Please provide those odds as well for a proper basis of comparison.

It is higher then not believing in a God I will tell you that with certainty.
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DATCMOTO
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9/18/2009 10:46:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/17/2009 9:40:19 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 9/17/2009 9:16:27 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Find it funny how atheists always attack theists on being illogical to believe in any type of God just because there are so many belief systems of God. Could it be that there are so many religions because people have a supernatural longing for God? Something unexplained, that causes people to want to come closer to a God?

Does the fact that most cultures have had some type of dragon myth mean that they existed? Come on, now.

No it means that the Bible is true and that man and dinosaurs (or dragons as we called them) co-existed.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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9/18/2009 11:23:30 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/18/2009 12:48:25 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 9/18/2009 11:12:07 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Incidentally there is a fascinating similarity between one 'species' of Greek vampire (of which they had many) and one type of Chinese vampire. I seem to recall they both cut their victims with their nails, if you throw corn in front of the Greek Vampire it has to pause and count the grains before proceeding, for the Chinese its rice... and I think there is something else.


1) Proof of such tales


Yes

2) What year are they from? If they're after Alexander empire, than it's entirely possible they're the exact same myth.

Or indeed from before, trade and cultural links always seem to be closer than we give credit.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Volkov
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9/18/2009 11:26:53 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/18/2009 11:23:30 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Or indeed from before, trade and cultural links always seem to be closer than we give credit.

May I remind everyone that humans are a migrated species, meaning that the Europeans, the Sino-Japanese-etc. and everyone else came from at least one shared tribe. These myths about vampires, dragons, whatever - they can easily be remnants from the past, and the variations we find are from where the different cultures grew. I mean, who knows how old the idea of the dragon or vampire or any of these mythic creatures - and they are indeed "mythic," because lets be honest, they don't exist - are.
I-am-a-panda
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9/19/2009 4:44:01 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/18/2009 11:26:53 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 9/18/2009 11:23:30 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Or indeed from before, trade and cultural links always seem to be closer than we give credit.

May I remind everyone that humans are a migrated species, meaning that the Europeans, the Sino-Japanese-etc. and everyone else came from at least one shared tribe. These myths about vampires, dragons, whatever - they can easily be remnants from the past, and the variations we find are from where the different cultures grew. I mean, who knows how old the idea of the dragon or vampire or any of these mythic creatures - and they are indeed "mythic," because lets be honest, they don't exist - are.

This is quite true being Addis Ababa is often cited as the birthplace of humanity.

However, one problem I find is differences between Oriental people and Caucasians, in terms of eyes.

I would say it's likely we evolved from at least 2 tribes.
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