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Moving past religion?

imabench
Posts: 21,210
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9/14/2012 8:43:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"All the worlds major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether."

This was said by the Dalai Lama about 4 days ago. Thoughts?
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

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jharry
Posts: 4,984
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9/14/2012 8:56:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Jesus already spoke of this, it should not be a surprise to any Christian.

People have always tried to be their own God, or tied to place other things in His place. Always have and always will.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
TheAsylum
Posts: 772
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9/14/2012 9:24:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 8:56:31 PM, jharry wrote:
Jesus already spoke of this, it should not be a surprise to any Christian.

People have always tried to be their own God, or tied to place other things in His place. Always have and always will.
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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9/14/2012 9:32:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
In an increasingly globalized world it might be necessary to move past religion in order to define morality due to the wide variety of religions, religious beliefs, religious assertions about morality, and other cultural differences.
imabench
Posts: 21,210
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9/14/2012 9:32:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 8:56:31 PM, jharry wrote:
Jesus already spoke of this, it should not be a surprise to any Christian.

People have always tried to be their own God, or tied to place other things in His place. Always have and always will.

this isnt about men claiming themselves to be God, its about exploring spirituality without having to tie it to religion.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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9/14/2012 9:36:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 9:32:46 PM, Enji wrote:
In an increasingly globalized world it might be necessary to move past religion in order to define morality due to the wide variety of religions, religious beliefs, religious assertions about morality, and other cultural differences.

Who decides these morals you're referring to?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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9/14/2012 9:38:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 9:32:50 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 8:56:31 PM, jharry wrote:
Jesus already spoke of this, it should not be a surprise to any Christian.

People have always tried to be their own God, or tied to place other things in His place. Always have and always will.

this isnt about men claiming themselves to be God, its about exploring spirituality without having to tie it to religion.

Spirituality without God what I was referring to. People believing they can set up their own parameters, being their own God. Not really claiming to be God it an outright fashion.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
TheAsylum
Posts: 772
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9/14/2012 9:42:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 9:32:50 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 8:56:31 PM, jharry wrote:
Jesus already spoke of this, it should not be a surprise to any Christian.

People have always tried to be their own God, or tied to place other things in His place. Always have and always will.

this isnt about men claiming themselves to be God, its about exploring spirituality without having to tie it to religion.

I guess you miss in the Bible about, chanting, sorcery and communion with familiar spirits. This is what this is refering too.
Be spiritual without The Bible, His Church and the actual God. This is what this is leading to.
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
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9/14/2012 9:46:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 9:32:50 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 8:56:31 PM, jharry wrote:
Jesus already spoke of this, it should not be a surprise to any Christian.

People have always tried to be their own God, or tied to place other things in His place. Always have and always will.

this isnt about men claiming themselves to be God, its about exploring spirituality without having to tie it to religion.

There is little difference between spirituality and religion that I can see.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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9/14/2012 9:47:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 9:36:08 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/14/2012 9:32:46 PM, Enji wrote:
In an increasingly globalized world it might be necessary to move past religion in order to define morality due to the wide variety of religions, religious beliefs, religious assertions about morality, and other cultural differences.

Who decides these morals you're referring to?

Must they be absolute morals? Due to cultural differences, I don't think that absolute morals decided on by some group or other (religious or not) would adequately accommodate the world's diversity.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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9/14/2012 10:09:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 9:47:02 PM, Enji wrote:
At 9/14/2012 9:36:08 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/14/2012 9:32:46 PM, Enji wrote:
In an increasingly globalized world it might be necessary to move past religion in order to define morality due to the wide variety of religions, religious beliefs, religious assertions about morality, and other cultural differences.

Who decides these morals you're referring to?

Must they be absolute morals? Due to cultural differences, I don't think that absolute morals decided on by some group or other (religious or not) would adequately accommodate the world's diversity.

Then your comment is irrelevant?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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9/14/2012 10:21:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 10:09:42 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/14/2012 9:47:02 PM, Enji wrote:
At 9/14/2012 9:36:08 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/14/2012 9:32:46 PM, Enji wrote:
In an increasingly globalized world it might be necessary to move past religion in order to define morality due to the wide variety of religions, religious beliefs, religious assertions about morality, and other cultural differences.

Who decides these morals you're referring to?

Must they be absolute morals? Due to cultural differences, I don't think that absolute morals decided on by some group or other (religious or not) would adequately accommodate the world's diversity.

Then your comment is irrelevant?

What is it irrelevant to? Religion asserts an absolute morality - absolute morality does not adequately accommodate the world's diversity, thus I agree that it is time to move past religion and find new ways to think about ethics and spirituality.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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9/14/2012 11:20:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 10:21:49 PM, Enji wrote:
At 9/14/2012 10:09:42 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/14/2012 9:47:02 PM, Enji wrote:
At 9/14/2012 9:36:08 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/14/2012 9:32:46 PM, Enji wrote:
In an increasingly globalized world it might be necessary to move past religion in order to define morality due to the wide variety of religions, religious beliefs, religious assertions about morality, and other cultural differences.

Who decides these morals you're referring to?

Must they be absolute morals? Due to cultural differences, I don't think that absolute morals decided on by some group or other (religious or not) would adequately accommodate the world's diversity.

Then your comment is irrelevant?

What is it irrelevant to? Religion asserts an absolute morality - absolute morality does not adequately accommodate the world's diversity, thus I agree that it is time to move past religion and find new ways to think about ethics and spirituality.

And that goes right back to my first question I asked you. How will these new ethics and spirituality be determined?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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9/14/2012 11:29:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 11:20:50 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/14/2012 10:21:49 PM, Enji wrote:
At 9/14/2012 10:09:42 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/14/2012 9:47:02 PM, Enji wrote:
At 9/14/2012 9:36:08 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/14/2012 9:32:46 PM, Enji wrote:
In an increasingly globalized world it might be necessary to move past religion in order to define morality due to the wide variety of religions, religious beliefs, religious assertions about morality, and other cultural differences.

Who decides these morals you're referring to?

Must they be absolute morals? Due to cultural differences, I don't think that absolute morals decided on by some group or other (religious or not) would adequately accommodate the world's diversity.

Then your comment is irrelevant?

What is it irrelevant to? Religion asserts an absolute morality - absolute morality does not adequately accommodate the world's diversity, thus I agree that it is time to move past religion and find new ways to think about ethics and spirituality.

And that goes right back to my first question I asked you. How will these new ethics and spirituality be determined?

On a relative basis that takes into account the various different opinions and beliefs and that does not define morals absolutely.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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9/15/2012 12:30:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I love how Rob Bell talks about this topic in his video "Everything is Spiritual"

"How is your spiritual life?"

"I'm not spiritual."

"Are you a human being?"

"Yes."

"Too late."
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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9/15/2012 1:38:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 8:43:21 PM, imabench wrote:
"All the worlds major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether."

This was said by the Dalai Lama about 4 days ago. Thoughts?

The Fool: I Thought you were Saying it. I WAS GOING TO SAY CHEERS TO THAT!!!
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/15/2012 7:50:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 8:43:21 PM, imabench wrote:
"All the worlds major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether."

This was said by the Dalai Lama about 4 days ago. Thoughts?

Sounds like he's making a move against all Abrahamic religions, in an attempt to lure new recruits. Not surprised though...

2 Timothy 3:13...But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.

Objective morality is no longer adequate?? I guess man has proven himself a capable source for morality and ethics.
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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9/15/2012 10:56:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/15/2012 7:50:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/14/2012 8:43:21 PM, imabench wrote:
"All the worlds major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether."

This was said by the Dalai Lama about 4 days ago. Thoughts?

Sounds like he's making a move against all Abrahamic religions, in an attempt to lure new recruits. Not surprised though...

Now you're just grasping at straws. He's speaking against his own religion, last I checked Tibetan Buddhism was a religion. He's saying religion is necessary to develop ideas about morality and god(s). The last time I checked, spirituals have never exactly discounted the idea of a greater force (god) in the universe.


2 Timothy 3:13...But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.

Are you seriously calling one of the most peaceful spiritual leaders in the world evil? Give me a break...

Also, I would like to point out, all religions have some form of the truth in their teachings.


Objective morality is no longer adequate?? I guess man has proven himself a capable source for morality and ethics.

Please point out where the Dalai Lama said that objective morality is no longer adequate. I believe he is saying objective morality, within the context of religion, is no longer adequate.
Ervin
Posts: 6
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9/15/2012 11:53:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 8:43:21 PM, imabench wrote:
"All the worlds major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether."

This was said by the Dalai Lama about 4 days ago. Thoughts?

Complete nonsense. With that said, I listened and do listen to his talks mindfulness and they're very good.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/15/2012 12:15:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/15/2012 10:56:36 AM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 9/15/2012 7:50:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/14/2012 8:43:21 PM, imabench wrote:
"All the worlds major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether."

This was said by the Dalai Lama about 4 days ago. Thoughts?

Sounds like he's making a move against all Abrahamic religions, in an attempt to lure new recruits. Not surprised though...

Now you're just grasping at straws. He's speaking against his own religion, last I checked Tibetan Buddhism was a religion. He's saying religion is necessary to develop ideas about morality and god(s). The last time I checked, spirituals have never exactly discounted the idea of a greater force (god) in the universe.

If we look beyond religion to define morality, which seems to be what he's saying, where will we be looking to?? What are our options??

2 Timothy 3:13...But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.

Are you seriously calling one of the most peaceful spiritual leaders in the world evil? Give me a break...

Can an evil conclusion be acheived by peaceful means??

Also, I would like to point out, all religions have some form of the truth in their teachings.


Objective morality is no longer adequate?? I guess man has proven himself a capable source for morality and ethics.

Please point out where the Dalai Lama said that objective morality is no longer adequate. I believe he is saying objective morality, within the context of religion, is no longer adequate.

I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time, but it seems to me that he's saying that we need to decide ethics and spirituality by changing to a more all-inclusive system of beliefs. One that is accepting of secular attempts at morality. How does moving in a more secular direction, lead us anywhere but AWAY from spirituality??
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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9/15/2012 12:21:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/15/2012 12:15:49 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/15/2012 10:56:36 AM, THEBOMB wrote:

Please point out where the Dalai Lama said that objective morality is no longer adequate. I believe he is saying objective morality, within the context of religion, is no longer adequate.

I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time, but it seems to me that he's saying that we need to decide ethics and spirituality by changing to a more all-inclusive system of beliefs. One that is accepting of secular attempts at morality. How does moving in a more secular direction, lead us anywhere but AWAY from spirituality??

I think you are confusing my opinions with Dalai Lama's .
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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9/15/2012 12:32:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/15/2012 12:15:49 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/15/2012 10:56:36 AM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 9/15/2012 7:50:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/14/2012 8:43:21 PM, imabench wrote:
"All the worlds major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether."

This was said by the Dalai Lama about 4 days ago. Thoughts?

Sounds like he's making a move against all Abrahamic religions, in an attempt to lure new recruits. Not surprised though...

Now you're just grasping at straws. He's speaking against his own religion, last I checked Tibetan Buddhism was a religion. He's saying religion is necessary to develop ideas about morality and god(s). The last time I checked, spirituals have never exactly discounted the idea of a greater force (god) in the universe.

If we look beyond religion to define morality, which seems to be what he's saying, where will we be looking to?? What are our options??

You look towards the unknown. Spirituals don't follow a religion, they still have a conception of morality. You look towards the universe and the unknown. That's part of Buddhism, by the way.


2 Timothy 3:13...But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.

Are you seriously calling one of the most peaceful spiritual leaders in the world evil? Give me a break...

Can an evil conclusion be acheived by peaceful means??

You just assert that his conclusion is evil. Prove it. Why is religion necessary for objective morality based upon god?


Also, I would like to point out, all religions have some form of the truth in their teachings.

Completely ignored :)



Objective morality is no longer adequate?? I guess man has proven himself a capable source for morality and ethics.

Please point out where the Dalai Lama said that objective morality is no longer adequate. I believe he is saying objective morality, within the context of religion, is no longer adequate.

I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time, but it seems to me that he's saying that we need to decide ethics and spirituality by changing to a more all-inclusive system of beliefs. One that is accepting of secular attempts at morality. How does moving in a more secular direction, lead us anywhere but AWAY from spirituality??

I don't think the Dalai Lama would ever advocate moving in a more secular direction...I believe he is saying that for centuries non-religious affiliated spirituals have contemplated the universe and their place in it. We should not necessarily hold everything a religion says to be always true but rather contemplate for ourselves. You can be spiritual and non-religious at the same time. You don't need religion to have an objective morality based upon god.
rogue
Posts: 2,325
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9/15/2012 12:54:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 8:43:21 PM, imabench wrote:
"All the worlds major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether."

This was said by the Dalai Lama about 4 days ago. Thoughts?

Sounds pretty wise to me.