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My conversion to agnosticism

Rational_Thinker9119
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9/17/2012 3:22:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
For one, I'm not really all that convinced by the arguments from Atheism, like the Problem of Evil. Also even if it works, there could still be a God who was not all good, but was still a sentient creator of the universe. Basically, there is no argument for Atheism when negates the idea of God, just a God with specific attributes.

Now, if I don't believe in God, this still makes me an Atheist (weak Atheist), right? Well, the argument could be made that I was still a weak Atheist, but this just sparks up unneeded semantic debates with Theists who find weak Atheism to not make much sense. So, after long deliberation, I've decided I would prefer to be referred to as an Agnostic to drop all the baggage the term "Atheist" holds. I don't find arguments for Theism, or arguments for Atheism convincing, and I truly believe there is no way to know certain things right now, like the truth of the existence of God (I don't buy those "you can be touched by the holy spirit" nonsense arguments either).

So, I just felt like sharing this with you guys. Thanks for reading!
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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9/17/2012 3:30:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm a Tooth Fairy Agnostic.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/17/2012 3:41:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 3:22:09 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
For one, I'm not really all that convinced by the arguments from Atheism, like the Problem of Evil. Also even if it works, there could still be a God who was not all good, but was still a sentient creator of the universe. Basically, there is no argument for Atheism when negates the idea of God, just a God with specific attributes.

Now, if I don't believe in God, this still makes me an Atheist (weak Atheist), right? Well, the argument could be made that I was still a weak Atheist, but this just sparks up unneeded semantic debates with Theists who find weak Atheism to not make much sense. So, after long deliberation, I've decided I would prefer to be referred to as an Agnostic to drop all the baggage the term "Atheist" holds. I don't find arguments for Theism, or arguments for Atheism convincing, and I truly believe there is no way to know certain things right now, like the truth of the existence of God (I don't buy those "you can be touched by the holy spirit" nonsense arguments either).

So, I just felt like sharing this with you guys. Thanks for reading!

What if the Holy Spirit was the quantum field membrane? And by this annointing "one may know all things"

What if I could show you God's doings and natures as they unfold themselves to pattern a universe and all the finger prints therein...in your body, in the fossil record, in scripture, in the mystery of the name YHVH.

Would you want explore such a possibility? Does your ability to "believe" stretch far enough for you to take a look and see plainly? When you do, belief no longer functions as such. =)

How about a walk?
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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9/17/2012 3:44:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 3:41:03 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
At 9/17/2012 3:22:09 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
For one, I'm not really all that convinced by the arguments from Atheism, like the Problem of Evil. Also even if it works, there could still be a God who was not all good, but was still a sentient creator of the universe. Basically, there is no argument for Atheism when negates the idea of God, just a God with specific attributes.

Now, if I don't believe in God, this still makes me an Atheist (weak Atheist), right? Well, the argument could be made that I was still a weak Atheist, but this just sparks up unneeded semantic debates with Theists who find weak Atheism to not make much sense. So, after long deliberation, I've decided I would prefer to be referred to as an Agnostic to drop all the baggage the term "Atheist" holds. I don't find arguments for Theism, or arguments for Atheism convincing, and I truly believe there is no way to know certain things right now, like the truth of the existence of God (I don't buy those "you can be touched by the holy spirit" nonsense arguments either).

So, I just felt like sharing this with you guys. Thanks for reading!

What if the Holy Spirit was the quantum field membrane? And by this annointing "one may know all things"

What if pigs had wings? I highly doubt you have any evidence to support your idea here.


What if I could show you God's doings and natures as they unfold themselves to pattern a universe and all the finger prints therein...in your body, in the fossil record, in scripture, in the mystery of the name YHVH.

How could you prove that what you showed me, was actually God's doing though? This would seem like an impossible task for you.


Would you want explore such a possibility? Does your ability to "believe" stretch far enough for you to take a look and see plainly? When you do, belief no longer functions as such. =)

I'm open to believing in God, I've just yet to be convinced.


How about a walk?
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/17/2012 3:56:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 3:44:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:

What if pigs had wings? I highly doubt you have any evidence to support your idea here.


How could you prove that what you showed me, was actually God's doing though? This would seem like an impossible task for you.

I'm open to believing in God, I've just yet to be convinced.

Here is the first step in understanding what I am talking about...

God the Tri-Unity, existing as One upon Infinity wants to create (infinity divided by infinity = 1)...so God the Tri-Unity becomes God the Trinity; the ceiling (Father spirit, Love), quantum hidden substrate (Mother, Holy Spirit, Truth) and floor central point (Son, manifestation of Love and Truth as a singularity of manifest being, a Human (male/female) of light....a spherical universe is born by the expansions of God functions. Infinity is not diminished and still exists all around. Is the manifestation of its Infinite qualities; All around, throughout and at the center of it's Self

So the expanded light ceiling (from a pov inside the spherical universe) acts like Father because it is directly connected to the Infinite undifferentiated Source, is the source of "salvation", ensoulment and spiritual insemination (anointing), fertilizing the female egg of our souls. So it's action upon all created therein is projective. As a "screen" for Infinity.

The condensed quantum substrate (of liquid omnipresent light into crystalline "waters" vibratory field) acts as the hidden receiver, preserver, organizer, and gestater (Mother/ Holy Spirit aspect) of all things therein...(except for the central point which is a "virginal" birth from the beginning). It's action is receptive...(until summoned by Father or Son).

The precipitated central point floor is the singular manifestation of God as an individual Being. God the Son. Ruler and receiver of all things from Father and Mother. On a Throne (Mother manifest) that does not move as the very center of all universal manifestation and is the lens of all further manifestation as Logos (Father manifest). Projective and receptive.

Got all that from Genesis 1:1-2.

I come to their modeling by their functions in relationship to each other and the subsequent creation....in respect to the Unity beyond.

So for myself the Tri-Unity (outside the universe) is genderless and the gender functions of the Trinity(inside and as the universe) are the foundation for all later creations, gender functions and eventual gender embodiment.

God the Father is ultimately projector of Life into the universe.
God the Mother, Holy Spirit, receives, holds and gestates all things.
God the Son is God the Father and Mother as One being who is the point and Ruler of the now created universe.

Now here's where it keeps getting interesting...

God the Father is the ultimate holder of the universe like a pregnant mother.
God the Mother is the Holy Spirit that inseminates our egg-like soul as a father does.
And God the Son, mothers us as Shepard and guides us a Father does.

I feel faithfully that gender aspects are reasonable and right to ascribe to Their functions as "Jesus" (not the name he was called at the time) told us to pray "Our Father..."

The Beings themselves are of course beyond gender but their actions upon the universe as one of three God functions, have projection and reception and foundation.

This is the first step of 3 before material creation. Next are the shape/flows that light takes to remain moving at the speed of light within a fixed volume, and these are the natures of "times arrow"

More?
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/17/2012 3:59:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I agree with you for the most part. However I insist on calling myself an Atheist because of my absolute certainty that the Judeo-Christian God or any personal, all-powerful being that requires praise, is contrived garbage that needs to be effaced from humanity. It's largely for the sake of relevancy.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
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9/17/2012 4:06:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I am Flying Spaghetti Monster Agnostic. lol Everyone is .1% Agnostic. lol
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

Matthew 10:22- "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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9/17/2012 4:12:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 4:06:48 PM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
I am Flying Spaghetti Monster Agnostic. lol Everyone is .1% Agnostic. lol

Of course you are, it's not like you have any evidence for or against the FSM do you ;)
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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9/17/2012 4:14:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 3:59:19 PM, 000ike wrote:
I agree with you for the most part. However I insist on calling myself an Atheist because of my absolute certainty that the Judeo-Christian God or any personal, all-powerful being that requires praise, is contrived garbage that needs to be effaced from humanity. It's largely for the sake of relevancy.

Your position doesn't rule out Deism though, which is still a form of Theism. Like I said, arguments for Atheism aren't really arguments for Atheism.
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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9/17/2012 5:04:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 4:48:32 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
Any comments on God's unfolded natures?

I don't think he wants to adapt a Christian worldview just like that...
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/17/2012 5:10:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 5:04:24 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 9/17/2012 4:48:32 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
Any comments on God's unfolded natures?

I don't think he wants to adapt a Christian worldview just like that...

It's not "Christian". But it does logic out three fundamental relationships Infinity has with itself in a combined Real manifestation.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/17/2012 5:23:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 3:22:09 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
For one, I'm not really all that convinced by the arguments from Atheism, like the Problem of Evil. Also even if it works, there could still be a God who was not all good, but was still a sentient creator of the universe. Basically, there is no argument for Atheism when negates the idea of God, just a God with specific attributes.

Now, if I don't believe in God, this still makes me an Atheist (weak Atheist), right? Well, the argument could be made that I was still a weak Atheist, but this just sparks up unneeded semantic debates with Theists who find weak Atheism to not make much sense. So, after long deliberation, I've decided I would prefer to be referred to as an Agnostic to drop all the baggage the term "Atheist" holds. I don't find arguments for Theism, or arguments for Atheism convincing, and I truly believe there is no way to know certain things right now, like the truth of the existence of God (I don't buy those "you can be touched by the holy spirit" nonsense arguments either).

So, I just felt like sharing this with you guys. Thanks for reading!

Congrats?

Many of the best philosophers of religion, IMO, are agnostic.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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9/17/2012 5:26:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 3:59:19 PM, 000ike wrote:
I agree with you for the most part. However I insist on calling myself an Atheist because of my absolute certainty that the Judeo-Christian God or any personal, all-powerful being that requires praise, is contrived garbage that needs to be effaced from humanity. It's largely for the sake of relevancy.

I sense your family/parents/whatever are Christians, your sick of it, so therefore you distance yourself from it as much as possible.
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TheAsylum
Posts: 772
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9/17/2012 5:26:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 3:22:09 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
For one, I'm not really all that convinced by the arguments from Atheism, like the Problem of Evil. Also even if it works, there could still be a God who was not all good, but was still a sentient creator of the universe. Basically, there is no argument for Atheism when negates the idea of God, just a God with specific attributes.

Now, if I don't believe in God, this still makes me an Atheist (weak Atheist), right? Well, the argument could be made that I was still a weak Atheist, but this just sparks up unneeded semantic debates with Theists who find weak Atheism to not make much sense. So, after long deliberation, I've decided I would prefer to be referred to as an Agnostic to drop all the baggage the term "Atheist" holds. I don't find arguments for Theism, or arguments for Atheism convincing, and I truly believe there is no way to know certain things right now, like the truth of the existence of God (I don't buy those "you can be touched by the holy spirit" nonsense arguments either).

So, I just felt like sharing this with you guys. Thanks for reading!

Thanks. Good reconitions.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/17/2012 5:28:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 5:26:10 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 9/17/2012 3:59:19 PM, 000ike wrote:
I agree with you for the most part. However I insist on calling myself an Atheist because of my absolute certainty that the Judeo-Christian God or any personal, all-powerful being that requires praise, is contrived garbage that needs to be effaced from humanity. It's largely for the sake of relevancy.

I sense your family/parents/whatever are Christians, your sick of it, so therefore you distance yourself from it as much as possible.

It happens. I actually used to be like that.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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9/17/2012 5:29:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 3:22:09 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
For one, I'm not really all that convinced by the arguments from Atheism, like the Problem of Evil. Also even if it works, there could still be a God who was not all good, but was still a sentient creator of the universe. Basically, there is no argument for Atheism when negates the idea of God, just a God with specific attributes.

Now, if I don't believe in God, this still makes me an Atheist (weak Atheist), right? Well, the argument could be made that I was still a weak Atheist, but this just sparks up unneeded semantic debates with Theists who find weak Atheism to not make much sense. So, after long deliberation, I've decided I would prefer to be referred to as an Agnostic to drop all the baggage the term "Atheist" holds. I don't find arguments for Theism, or arguments for Atheism convincing, and I truly believe there is no way to know certain things right now, like the truth of the existence of God (I don't buy those "you can be touched by the holy spirit" nonsense arguments either).

So, I just felt like sharing this with you guys. Thanks for reading!

Are you agnostic on whether the universe was created 6,000 years ago as opposed to billions of years ago?

If so, are you agnostic on whether the earth is flat?
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/17/2012 5:31:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 5:29:43 PM, Wnope wrote:
If so, are you agnostic on whether the earth is flat?

Nor is it round! Earth is an oblate spheroid! ;)
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/17/2012 5:32:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 5:26:10 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 9/17/2012 3:59:19 PM, 000ike wrote:
I agree with you for the most part. However I insist on calling myself an Atheist because of my absolute certainty that the Judeo-Christian God or any personal, all-powerful being that requires praise, is contrived garbage that needs to be effaced from humanity. It's largely for the sake of relevancy.

I sense your family/parents/whatever are Christians, your sick of it, so therefore you distance yourself from it as much as possible.

actually, my parents are extreme unconventional Christians. They disapprove of many of the things said in Church and think many Christians are misguided. They are pro-abortion, pro-evolution, and reject many elements of "common" Christianity that don't make sense. They believe in something called "The Grail Message".

All in all, they're very moderate and rational. I reject their religion anyway for my own reasons.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/17/2012 5:33:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 5:32:45 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/17/2012 5:26:10 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 9/17/2012 3:59:19 PM, 000ike wrote:
I agree with you for the most part. However I insist on calling myself an Atheist because of my absolute certainty that the Judeo-Christian God or any personal, all-powerful being that requires praise, is contrived garbage that needs to be effaced from humanity. It's largely for the sake of relevancy.

I sense your family/parents/whatever are Christians, your sick of it, so therefore you distance yourself from it as much as possible.

actually, my parents are extreme unconventional Christians. They disapprove of many of the things said in Church and think many Christians are misguided. They are pro-abortion, pro-evolution, and reject many elements of "common" Christianity that don't make sense. They believe in something called "The Grail Message".

All in all, they're very moderate and rational. I reject their religion anyway for my own reasons.

*extremely unconventional, NOT extreme unconventional.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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9/17/2012 5:35:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 5:29:43 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 9/17/2012 3:22:09 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
For one, I'm not really all that convinced by the arguments from Atheism, like the Problem of Evil. Also even if it works, there could still be a God who was not all good, but was still a sentient creator of the universe. Basically, there is no argument for Atheism when negates the idea of God, just a God with specific attributes.

Now, if I don't believe in God, this still makes me an Atheist (weak Atheist), right? Well, the argument could be made that I was still a weak Atheist, but this just sparks up unneeded semantic debates with Theists who find weak Atheism to not make much sense. So, after long deliberation, I've decided I would prefer to be referred to as an Agnostic to drop all the baggage the term "Atheist" holds. I don't find arguments for Theism, or arguments for Atheism convincing, and I truly believe there is no way to know certain things right now, like the truth of the existence of God (I don't buy those "you can be touched by the holy spirit" nonsense arguments either).

So, I just felt like sharing this with you guys. Thanks for reading!

Are you agnostic on whether the universe was created 6,000 years ago as opposed to billions of years ago?

Of course not, there is no good evidence to support a young Earth, and tons of evidence to support on old Earth. There is no good evidence to support a God existing or not existing, so I am agnostic on that.


If so, are you agnostic on whether the earth is flat?

No, because once more, there is no good evidence for a a flat Earth, and tons of evidence that the Earth is round. However, again, there is no good evidence to support a God existing or not existing, so I am agnostic on that.

You are comparing apples and oranges here to the furthest extent, you should be embarrassed.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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9/17/2012 5:37:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 3:56:23 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
At 9/17/2012 3:44:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:

What if pigs had wings? I highly doubt you have any evidence to support your idea here.


How could you prove that what you showed me, was actually God's doing though? This would seem like an impossible task for you.

I'm open to believing in God, I've just yet to be convinced.

Here is the first step in understanding what I am talking about...


God the Tri-Unity, existing as One upon Infinity wants to create (infinity divided by infinity = 1)...so God the Tri-Unity becomes God the Trinity; the ceiling (Father spirit, Love), quantum hidden substrate (Mother, Holy Spirit, Truth) and floor central point (Son, manifestation of Love and Truth as a singularity of manifest being, a Human (male/female) of light....a spherical universe is born by the expansions of God functions. Infinity is not diminished and still exists all around. Is the manifestation of its Infinite qualities; All around, throughout and at the center of it's Self

So the expanded light ceiling (from a pov inside the spherical universe) acts like Father because it is directly connected to the Infinite undifferentiated Source, is the source of "salvation", ensoulment and spiritual insemination (anointing), fertilizing the female egg of our souls. So it's action upon all created therein is projective. As a "screen" for Infinity.

The condensed quantum substrate (of liquid omnipresent light into crystalline "waters" vibratory field) acts as the hidden receiver, preserver, organizer, and gestater (Mother/ Holy Spirit aspect) of all things therein...(except for the central point which is a "virginal" birth from the beginning). It's action is receptive...(until summoned by Father or Son).

The precipitated central point floor is the singular manifestation of God as an individual Being. God the Son. Ruler and receiver of all things from Father and Mother. On a Throne (Mother manifest) that does not move as the very center of all universal manifestation and is the lens of all further manifestation as Logos (Father manifest). Projective and receptive.

Got all that from Genesis 1:1-2.

Ok... And? Why should anybody believe Genesis?


I come to their modeling by their functions in relationship to each other and the subsequent creation....in respect to the Unity beyond.

So for myself the Tri-Unity (outside the universe) is genderless and the gender functions of the Trinity(inside and as the universe) are the foundation for all later creations, gender functions and eventual gender embodiment.

God the Father is ultimately projector of Life into the universe.
God the Mother, Holy Spirit, receives, holds and gestates all things.
God the Son is God the Father and Mother as One being who is the point and Ruler of the now created universe.

Now here's where it keeps getting interesting...

Good, I've been waiting for this part then...


God the Father is the ultimate holder of the universe like a pregnant mother.
God the Mother is the Holy Spirit that inseminates our egg-like soul as a father does.
And God the Son, mothers us as Shepard and guides us a Father does.

I feel faithfully that gender aspects are reasonable and right to ascribe to Their functions as "Jesus" (not the name he was called at the time) told us to pray "Our Father..."

The Beings themselves are of course beyond gender but their actions upon the universe as one of three God functions, have projection and reception and foundation.


This is the first step of 3 before material creation. Next are the shape/flows that light takes to remain moving at the speed of light within a fixed volume, and these are the natures of "times arrow"

More?

Lol Ok so you have no evidence or logical argument, and just bare assertions. Why didn't you just say so?
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/17/2012 5:47:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/17/2012 5:37:42 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Ok... And? Why should anybody believe Genesis?
Lol Ok so you have no evidence or logical argument, and just bare assertions. Why didn't you just say so?

Genesis is a near exact replica of the 10,000 year old Sumerian Enuma Elish...kept near perfect over 7000 years of oral tradition before ever being written down 3500 years ago. Seems to be important to a number of cultures throughout time so i figured I'll give it some consideratory cred.

I have basic arithmetic and logic.

Evidence....lol! I could write pages of evidence written in the composure of your very body and the nature of the punctuate equilibrium found in the fossil record.

I can tell you why the patriarchs lived for hundreds of years, why the days get shortened, why the stars roll away as if on a scroll, why the pauses in the heavens and a worldwide earthquake as the sun goes dark.

And I can walk you step by step through the exact how of it.

But it takes caring and curiosity to do so.....and what do you have?
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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9/17/2012 5:48:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Most atheists would have very little problem with some kind of creature that ruled the universe as being a "God" over them. The problem for most atheists (at least for me) are the Gods that are depicted in the mainstream religions are malevolent control freaks with low self-confidence coupled with the batsh!t crazy followers that they attract. I'm not saying that I believe in that- because there is no evidence to support that- but out of all religious position, a deist is the most tolerable.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."