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Difference between belief and faith?

Archistrategos
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9/20/2012 8:07:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
So often they are used to semantically mean the same thing. Even though faith is used as really really really strong belief......it is still belief functionally

How do you define them? How do you use them differently? Is there a step beyond faith?
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/20/2012 8:29:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.

So you define them as functionally the same as "religionists" do? Neither has evidence, both presuppose.

What happens when belief finds evidence?

What is the origin of the word faith?
Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
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9/20/2012 8:30:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.

This is perfect.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

Matthew 10:22- "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,927
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9/20/2012 8:32:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:30:29 PM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.

This is perfect.

Sure it is...if you're bad at epistemology. ;)
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/20/2012 8:34:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:30:29 PM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.

This is perfect.
Is it?

Does belief presuppose fact or possibility?

As in the function of believing (thinking)....anything at all.....
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/20/2012 8:35:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:32:37 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:30:29 PM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.

This is perfect.

Sure it is...if you're bad at epistemology. ;)

Do expound =)
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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9/20/2012 8:37:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:29:44 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.

So you define them as functionally the same as "religionists" do? Neither has evidence, both presuppose.

What happens when belief finds evidence?

What is the origin of the word faith?

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: You ask so many questions of others to better understand their position so how about you cease your hypocrisy and change your Profile to show us what your religion/belief/Cult ideology is based upon so we can better understand why you claim to believe whatever it is you claim to believe and why?
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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9/20/2012 8:38:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:29:44 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.

So you define them as functionally the same as "religionists" do? Neither has evidence, both presuppose.

No... belief requires evidence while faith doesn't.

What happens when belief finds evidence?

It still stays belief because that's what belief is....

What is the origin of the word faith?

Who cares?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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9/20/2012 8:43:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:07:10 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
So often they are used to semantically mean the same thing. Even though faith is used as really really really strong belief......it is still belief functionally

How do you define them? How do you use them differently? Is there a step beyond faith?

I think they are close to the samething.
I think belief supercedes faith. Belief leaves no room for doubt. Belief is confidence. belief is like knowing. Faith can be weak and can have doubt. Mine isn't, I have endless faith and supreme belief in my God and His Word. Though, I think they pretty much go hand and hand.
TheAsylum
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/20/2012 8:44:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:37:02 PM, Composer wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:29:44 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.

So you define them as functionally the same as "religionists" do? Neither has evidence, both presuppose.

What happens when belief finds evidence?

What is the origin of the word faith?

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: You ask so many questions of others to better understand their position so how about you cease your hypocrisy and change your Profile to show us what your religion/belief/Cult ideology is based upon so we can better understand why you claim to believe whatever it is you claim to believe and why?

Well since you've been so helpful and polite in assisting me to see my own hypocrisy in hiding my nature and motives.....no.

But just for fun I will tell you this; I am a Telestai.
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/20/2012 8:47:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:38:18 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:29:44 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.

So you define them as functionally the same as "religionists" do? Neither has evidence, both presuppose.

No... belief requires evidence while faith doesn't.

Interesting....is this a sociological definition or etymological?
What happens when belief finds evidence?

It still stays belief because that's what belief is....

So belief, when it finds evidence, still has room for doubt or needs to defend itself?
What is the origin of the word faith?

Who cares?

People other than you who are interested in syntactic function.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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9/20/2012 8:49:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.


Wrong, Faith is Trust.

There are mountaints of evidence for God as far as I'm concerned, so the fact that other don't identify it as evidence means nothing to me.

So based on the evidence, I trust.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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9/20/2012 8:49:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:44:02 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:37:02 PM, Composer wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:29:44 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.

So you define them as functionally the same as "religionists" do? Neither has evidence, both presuppose.

What happens when belief finds evidence?

What is the origin of the word faith?

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: You ask so many questions of others to better understand their position so how about you cease your hypocrisy and change your Profile to show us what your religion/belief/Cult ideology is based upon so we can better understand why you claim to believe whatever it is you claim to believe and why?

Well since you've been so helpful and polite in assisting me to see my own hypocrisy in hiding my nature and motives.....no.

But just for fun I will tell you this; I am a Telestai.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: So you admit a Telestai is a.k.a a hypocrite!

I'll remember that!
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/20/2012 8:50:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:43:28 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:07:10 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
So often they are used to semantically mean the same thing. Even though faith is used as really really really strong belief......it is still belief functionally

How do you define them? How do you use them differently? Is there a step beyond faith?

I think they are close to the samething.
I think belief supercedes faith. Belief leaves no room for doubt. Belief is confidence. belief is like knowing. Faith can be weak and can have doubt. Mine isn't, I have endless faith and supreme belief in my God and His Word. Though, I think they pretty much go hand and hand.
Interesting...

So you suppose that faith is first....then it becomes belief, which has no room for doubt because it is what you really really think to true?

Then you use faith like it has a quantity....so what quantity of faith equals belief?
Composer
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9/20/2012 8:52:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:49:31 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.


Wrong, Faith is Trust.

There are mountaints of evidence for God as far as I'm concerned, so the fact that other don't identify it as evidence means nothing to me.

So based on the evidence, I trust.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: By all means let's examine this alleged ' mountain of evidence? ' and be sure to specify ' which god(s) ' you are referring to and why them & not others?
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/20/2012 8:54:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:49:52 PM, Composer wrote:
Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: So you admit a Telestai is a.k.a a hypocrite!

I'll remember that!

And I will remember that you are a laughing stock of train wreck logic and childish grammar with an ongoing success of 50% out of 2 debates.

Run along little one, the adults are talking.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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9/20/2012 8:58:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:52:13 PM, Composer wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:49:31 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.


Wrong, Faith is Trust.

There are mountaints of evidence for God as far as I'm concerned, so the fact that other don't identify it as evidence means nothing to me.

So based on the evidence, I trust.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: By all means let's examine this alleged ' mountain of evidence? ' and be sure to specify ' which god(s) ' you are referring to and why them & not others?


Curious, who declared you a 'successful' cult buster? or did you most likely give yourself that title?

Lol, at any rate, how can such a task be explained to the dead in spirit? If I show food to a corpse will it gain life and eat? of course not, it will remain dead.

If you cannot recognize the existence of God and Christ his son, it is not due to a lack of intellegence, its due to sinful prejudice.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/20/2012 8:58:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:49:31 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.


Wrong, Faith is Trust.

There are mountaints of evidence for God as far as I'm concerned, so the fact that other don't identify it as evidence means nothing to me.

So based on the evidence, I trust.

So belief + trusting your beliefs = faith?

Still seems to function the same with differing degrees....

So you present a semantic difference but the syntactics are still the same?
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/20/2012 8:59:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:47:30 PM, tulle wrote:
I think "faith" implies hope. Belief is more neutral I guess.

Go on... =)
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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9/20/2012 9:01:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:49:31 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.


Wrong, Faith is Trust.

There are mountaints of evidence for God as far as I'm concerned, so the fact that other don't identify it as evidence means nothing to me.

So based on the evidence, I trust.

No.. then you have belief. It's flawed and ridiculous, but evidence is subjective, therefore making you have belief in your ludicrous fantasies.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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9/20/2012 9:02:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 8:58:29 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:49:31 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.


Wrong, Faith is Trust.

There are mountaints of evidence for God as far as I'm concerned, so the fact that other don't identify it as evidence means nothing to me.

So based on the evidence, I trust.

So belief + trusting your beliefs = faith?

Still seems to function the same with differing degrees....

So you present a semantic difference but the syntactics are still the same?


Well I didn't acknowledge the belief portion, because it seems a bit of a pointless red herring.

Faith includes belief, but belief doesn't always include faith.

You cannot have faith and not believe, it makes no sense.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/20/2012 9:03:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 9:01:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:49:31 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.


Wrong, Faith is Trust.

There are mountaints of evidence for God as far as I'm concerned, so the fact that other don't identify it as evidence means nothing to me.

So based on the evidence, I trust.

No.. then you have belief. It's flawed and ridiculous, but evidence is subjective, therefore making you have belief in your ludicrous fantasies.

Are you asserting that all evidence is subjective or just the evidence you presuppose he has or doesn't have?

Mighty strong "faith" you have there! ;)
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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9/20/2012 9:04:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 9:03:23 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
At 9/20/2012 9:01:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:49:31 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 9/20/2012 8:21:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Faith is belief without evidence.

Belief presupposes evidence.


Wrong, Faith is Trust.

There are mountaints of evidence for God as far as I'm concerned, so the fact that other don't identify it as evidence means nothing to me.

So based on the evidence, I trust.

No.. then you have belief. It's flawed and ridiculous, but evidence is subjective, therefore making you have belief in your ludicrous fantasies.

Are you asserting that all evidence is subjective or just the evidence you presuppose he has or doesn't have?

Mighty strong "faith" you have there! ;)

Lol, you are ridiculous. Evidence is objective in the sense that it is there, but it is subjective in the sense of it being interpreted differently. I see that you are just going to move on to pointless blabber so I'm leaving- toodles.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Archistrategos
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9/20/2012 9:05:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 9:02:11 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
Well I didn't acknowledge the belief portion, because it seems a bit of a pointless red herring.

Faith includes belief, but belief doesn't always include faith.

: You cannot have faith and not believe, it makes no sense.

Would you explain this more for me?

And if you cannot have faith without belief, how is belief pointless?
Archistrategos
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9/20/2012 9:08:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 9:04:56 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Lol, you are ridiculous. Evidence is objective in the sense that it is there, but it is subjective in the sense of it being interpreted differently. I see that you are just going to move on to pointless blabber so I'm leaving- toodles.

So then nothing can ever be believed be true because of subjective interpretation?

Is there objective interpretation? I see you are just going to cut and run, but thank you for your brief input, see ya round!
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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9/20/2012 9:09:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 9:08:09 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
At 9/20/2012 9:04:56 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Lol, you are ridiculous. Evidence is objective in the sense that it is there, but it is subjective in the sense of it being interpreted differently. I see that you are just going to move on to pointless blabber so I'm leaving- toodles.

So then nothing can ever be believed be true because of subjective interpretation?

No, it can be believed to be true but that doesn't make it true.

Is there objective interpretation?

No.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/20/2012 9:16:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 9:09:38 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 9/20/2012 9:08:09 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
At 9/20/2012 9:04:56 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Lol, you are ridiculous. Evidence is objective in the sense that it is there, but it is subjective in the sense of it being interpreted differently. I see that you are just going to move on to pointless blabber so I'm leaving- toodles.

So then nothing can ever be believed be true because of subjective interpretation?

No, it can be believed to be true but that doesn't make it true.

Is there objective interpretation?

No.
Empirical interpretation?

Where do you move from thinking a thing to be true (belief) to actually interacting with Truth (Reality)
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/20/2012 9:18:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
And yes I do have a point, I am not just asking meandering questions....but some circumstance needed....and we are learning things about each other, yes?