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Questions for Dogknox

medic0506
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9/25/2012 1:00:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Since Dogknox believes that the RCC is the one true church, I have some questions.

Does the Bible teach catechism as a necessary component of the one true church??

Does the Bible teach that "Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence", as stated in the CCC??

Does the Bible teach confession to a preist as a necessary component of salvation??

Does the Bible teach penance and indulgence??

This should be enough for now.
annanicole
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9/25/2012 1:52:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I foresee you getting a long harangue about "listen to the church", i. e. no matter what the Bible says, it's majority rule.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
medic0506
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9/25/2012 1:57:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 1:52:15 PM, annanicole wrote:
I foresee you getting a long harangue about "listen to the church", i. e. no matter what the Bible says, it's majority rule.

This is kinda what I want to get at. How does the RCC justify some of it's doctrine when it isn't supported Biblically?? How can a church not rooted in God's Word be the one true church spoken of in the Word??
THEBOMB
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9/25/2012 2:30:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 1:57:24 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/25/2012 1:52:15 PM, annanicole wrote:
I foresee you getting a long harangue about "listen to the church", i. e. no matter what the Bible says, it's majority rule.

This is kinda what I want to get at. How does the RCC justify some of it's doctrine when it isn't supported Biblically?? How can a church not rooted in God's Word be the one true church spoken of in the Word??

Hypothesis: Dognox will reply something like this-->"The RCC and all it's doctrine are supported biblically." Just saying :)
DeFool
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9/25/2012 3:11:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The bible also places several demands upon those loyal to it. These followers must kill homosexuals, those who work on the Sabbath, cut off their hands, testicles and eyeballs, and kill children who "curseth" mother and father.

I am willing to speculate that few members of the church, Mr. Dognox (sp?) included, are not always willing to follow every scritpture to the letter. Regardless of how many boys the Pope has seen raped, or how he joined the Hitler movement.
Dogknox
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9/25/2012 3:34:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 1:00:26 PM, medic0506 wrote:
Since Dogknox believes that the RCC is the one true church, I have some questions.

Does the Bible teach catechism as a necessary component of the one true church??

Does the Bible teach that "Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence", as stated in the CCC??

Does the Bible teach confession to a preist as a necessary component of salvation??

Does the Bible teach penance and indulgence??

This should be enough for now.
medic0506 I hope all is well..
You asked.. Does the Bible teach catechism as a necessary component of the one true church??
The Bible teaches the "Holy Catholic Church teaches TRUTH!!"
The Catechism is a BOOK the Catholic can turn to for answers to these TRUTHS that are taught by Jesus' Holy Church!!
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God"s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

medic0506 The Bible tells CHRISTIANS; "The CHURCH Teaches truth, LISTEN TO HER!"

medic0506 You ask.. Does the Bible teach that "Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence", as stated in the CCC??
YUP!!
John 20:30
Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.


medic0506 Clearly MANY things "SIGNS" Jesus did were passed on by TRADITION in his Holy Church! John"s Gospel tells us that the Bible was composed so we can be helped to believe Jesus is the Messiah.
Scriptures do not say, the Bible is all we need for salvation, OR the Bible is all we need for theology; it does NOT say the Bible is even necessary to believe in Christ. The earliest Christians had no New Testament; they learned from oral teaching, no written, instructions.

Scriptures are "USEFUL" they are NOT ALONE used!
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.
17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.


medic0506 you asked.. Does the Bible teach confession to a preist as a necessary component of salvation??

YES (DEEP QUESTION) FACT: No sins are allowed into heaven!
Sins must be removed before anyone can enter!
Simple answer is: Confession is a way to remove sins, it is The ONLY WAY to remove the deadly sins!

There are sins that do not need to be confessed to a priest. Sins that do not kill! Sins that DO NOT lead to death!
1 John 5:16
If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

There are sins that do KILL, sins that do lead the Christian to death! These sins MUST be removed by the PRIEST in the confessional!

After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his ministers.
John 20:21
Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you."
22 And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
23 If you forgive anyone"s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."


The Didache
"Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . On the Lord"s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure" (Didache 4:14, 14:1 [A.D. 70]).

For all peoples.. There are sins that can be removed by repentance, prayer, and acts of LOVE! These are small sins.. All peoples weather Christian or not can have them removed by Prayer & or LOVE!

Luke 7:46
You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet.
47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven"as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little."
48 Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

medic0506 This woman (above) was given life because she LOVED MUCH! She repented of her sins and she LOVED, so she was saved!

Scriptures teach us to pray, "And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors"!
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Confession to a priest is required for the forgiveness of mortal sins; it is not absolutely required. In extraordinary circumstances, mortal sins can be forgiven outside of sacramental confession. IF a Catholic is dying and cannot go to sacramental confession, his mortal sins may be forgiven if he repents with true contrition (sorrow for his sins) and has at least the implicit intention to go to sacramental confession if the opportunity is made available.

Otherwise Confession to a Priest is the only way!

Confession to a preist as a necessary For CHRISTIANS! For all others their only way is ACTIONS of the heart! LOVE working in faith! The Sheep at the end times judgement, enter heaven because they have ACTIONS of the heart!
The Goats go to the Lake of fire because they have "Faith ALONE"!

Dogknox
medic0506
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9/25/2012 3:34:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 3:11:00 PM, DeFool wrote:
The bible also places several demands upon those loyal to it. These followers must kill homosexuals, those who work on the Sabbath, cut off their hands, testicles and eyeballs, and kill children who "curseth" mother and father.

I am willing to speculate that few members of the church, Mr. Dognox (sp?) included, are not always willing to follow every scritpture to the letter. Regardless of how many boys the Pope has seen raped, or how he joined the Hitler movement.

Do you have a legitimate point or are you just here to insult??
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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9/25/2012 3:46:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 3:34:31 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/25/2012 3:11:00 PM, DeFool wrote:
The bible also places several demands upon those loyal to it. These followers must kill homosexuals, those who work on the Sabbath, cut off their hands, testicles and eyeballs, and kill children who "curseth" mother and father.

I am willing to speculate that few members of the church, Mr. Dognox (sp?) included, are not always willing to follow every scritpture to the letter. Regardless of how many boys the Pope has seen raped, or how he joined the Hitler movement.

Do you have a legitimate point or are you just here to insult??

I think his point (beyond any insults) was that some differences between the bible and the teachings of the church and how you live your life are perhaps necessary (or at least desired), and such differences shouldn't be viewed as something bad. Although, if your point is that differences between the teachings of the church and the bible mean that you can not claim that a certain church is the only true church then his point is irrelevant.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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9/25/2012 3:48:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I will debate you medic.

inb4 every non-Catholic in the religion forum uses this thread to attack Catholicism.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/25/2012 3:49:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 3:11:00 PM, DeFool wrote:
The bible also places several demands upon those loyal to it. These followers must kill homosexuals, those who work on the Sabbath, cut off their hands, testicles and eyeballs, and kill children who "curseth" mother and father.

I am willing to speculate that few members of the church, Mr. Dognox (sp?) included, are not always willing to follow every scritpture to the letter. Regardless of how many boys the Pope has seen raped, or how he joined the Hitler movement.

Careful you do not blaspheme...might get a couple of she bears sicked on you...just sayin....looking out for you brother!
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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9/25/2012 3:55:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 3:46:35 PM, Enji wrote:
At 9/25/2012 3:34:31 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/25/2012 3:11:00 PM, DeFool wrote:
The bible also places several demands upon those loyal to it. These followers must kill homosexuals, those who work on the Sabbath, cut off their hands, testicles and eyeballs, and kill children who "curseth" mother and father.

I am willing to speculate that few members of the church, Mr. Dognox (sp?) included, are not always willing to follow every scritpture to the letter. Regardless of how many boys the Pope has seen raped, or how he joined the Hitler movement.

Do you have a legitimate point or are you just here to insult??

I think his point (beyond any insults) was that some differences between the bible and the teachings of the church and how you live your life are perhaps necessary (or at least desired), and such differences shouldn't be viewed as something bad. Although, if your point is that differences between the teachings of the church and the bible mean that you can not claim that a certain church is the only true church then his point is irrelevant.

That's my point anyway; he might just be here to troll.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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9/25/2012 3:59:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
--> "I foresee you getting a long harangue about "listen to the church", i. e. no matter what the Bible says, it's majority rule. <--

I called that shot.

DogKnox: "The Bible teaches the "Holy Catholic Church teaches TRUTH!!"

DogKnox: "The Bible tells CHRISTIANS; "The CHURCH Teaches truth, LISTEN TO HER!"

His authority is the Roman Catholic Church, period. It's "Papa Knows Best". Can't find indulgences in the Bible? No worries, Papa knows best. Can't find praying to Mary? Be not dismayed, Papa knows best. On and on and on ad infinitum.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
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9/25/2012 4:30:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You ask: "Does the Bible teach penance and indulgence??
YES.. The Church Jesus gave to the world has the power of binding and loosing in heaven!! This is scriptures!

All sins bring some kind of pain to the sinner! No one gets away free of the wound sins causes! Example: Davids baby dies as the result of Davids sin!

Ecclesiastes 12:14
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.

The Bible indicates some punishments are eternal,"lasting forever," but others are temporary .
Eternal punishment is mentioned in Daniel.

Daniel 12:2
"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

Jesus paid the price for our sins before God, he did not relieve our obligation to repair what we have done wrong.
Break your neighbors window.. The neighbor might forgive you but you still need to replace the window!

John 20:21-23 God gave the authority to remove sins and to RETAIN SINS!
John 20:21
Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you."
22 And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
23 If you forgive anyone"s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

Death entered the world through original sin, the forgiven die; a penalty remains after our sins are forgiven. This is a temporary penalty because physical death is temporary and we will be resurrected!!

God Blesses Some People As a Reward to Others.
God promised Abraham if he could find a certain number of righteous men in Sodom, he was willing to keep the city!!
Abraham would have saved these sinners!!! (he did not find any righteous, so what? The promise of God shows that people can intercede to God, for others)

Matthew 5:25
"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison.
26 Truly I tell you,"you will not get out until you have paid the last penny


This passage (above) says; "You will get out"! But not until the debt is paid!

This girl was saved by the REQUEST/Prayer to Jesus by her father!
Matthew 9:18
While he was saying this, a synagogue leader came and knelt before him and said, "My daughter has just died. But come and put your hand on her, and she will live."

Prayers for the DEAD are clearly indicated in the verse (above)

The Paralyzed man was saved by the LOVE of others!! Their ACTION Plus faith saved the Paraplegic!
Matthew 9:2
Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven."

The Rich Man calls Abraham "FATHER"!
Abraham calls the Rich Man "SON" if the man was in the Lake of Fire he would be Satan' child! Satan would be his father!
The Rich Man has compassion for his brother's left on earth! A person in the Lake of Fire would be Full of HATE no compassion!
Luke 16:24
So he called to him, "Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire."
25 "But Abraham replied, "Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us."
27 "He answered, "Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family,
28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment."
29 "Abraham replied, "They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them."
30 ""No, father Abraham," he said, "but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent."


When the Rich Man is Sanctified Jesus will cross over to get him!
The Rich Man was INTERCEDING for others!
And their are OTHERS who want to intercede for the Rich Man!
so that those who want to go from here to you cannot,

1 Corinthians 3:12
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person"s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved"even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Clearly the passage above says.. "There is a place of SANCTIFICATION after death"! The pain of being sanctified after death can be lessened by Prayers of us left on earth! No one goes to be Sanctified after death, if they have sins that lead to death not confessed to the Priest!

CHRISTIANS have taught TRUTH for the past two thousand years!
Dogknox
Dogknox
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9/25/2012 4:49:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 3:48:49 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I have a question. Why do Roman Catholics pray to saints and stuff when the Bible says not to do stuff like that?
InsertNameHere I reply: Are you saying "Catholic's WORSHIP Saints"?!
The Bible says: "WORSHIP is for God alone"!
Are you saying Catholic' do STUFF!?
We do not do stuff..
Catholic's are Christians, all the early Church Father's are Catholic's all accepted the teachings of the Apostles and accepted the authority of the only CHURCH Jesus formed!

The Bible says.. "Go through Jesus ALONE!"
InsertNameHere So why do you pray for others!!? You must pray to Jesus alone! How can you ask requests from Jesus for others????! They MUST go to Jesus alone, not to you!!

InsertNameHere Who said "the saints are dead?"
Who said the saints can't hear you ask: "Pray for me"!?

WHO SAYS; THE SAINTS DO NOT PRAY TO JESUS FOR US?!
Are you saying; "The Saints do not go to Jesus, for help?!?"

Matthew 17:1
After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves.
2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.
3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

InsertNameHere is Moses and Elijah dead???
Can they hear us and help us in prayer to Jesus?!
If not why not?!

Moses and Elijah are closer to Jesus then you are!

Hebrews 12:1
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,

Dogknox
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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9/25/2012 4:58:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 3:48:11 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
I will debate you medic.

inb4 every non-Catholic in the religion forum uses this thread to attack Catholicism.

Your Catholic?
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
johnnyboy54
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9/25/2012 5:08:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 3:48:49 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I have a question. Why do Roman Catholics pray to saints and stuff when the Bible says not to do stuff like that?

I have heard many different interpretations and explanations for this. However I think you misunderstand the Catholic doctrine of intercession. Some explanations have described it as prayer with the saints, as we ask them to pray to God on our behalf. Others have explained that prayer is okay, as you can pray to someone without worshiping it. Once again, prayer to the saints is only asking for the saint or saints to pray for you.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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9/25/2012 5:12:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 5:08:00 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 9/25/2012 3:48:49 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I have a question. Why do Roman Catholics pray to saints and stuff when the Bible says not to do stuff like that?

I have heard many different interpretations and explanations for this. However I think you misunderstand the Catholic doctrine of intercession. Some explanations have described it as prayer with the saints, as we ask them to pray to God on our behalf. Others have explained that prayer is okay, as you can pray to someone without worshiping it. Once again, prayer to the saints is only asking for the saint or saints to pray for you.

Just found it. The position of the Catholic Church is not that we pray to the saints. Rather we ask they they pray to God on our behalf.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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9/25/2012 5:28:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 5:12:15 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 9/25/2012 5:08:00 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 9/25/2012 3:48:49 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I have a question. Why do Roman Catholics pray to saints and stuff when the Bible says not to do stuff like that?

I have heard many different interpretations and explanations for this. However I think you misunderstand the Catholic doctrine of intercession. Some explanations have described it as prayer with the saints, as we ask them to pray to God on our behalf. Others have explained that prayer is okay, as you can pray to someone without worshiping it. Once again, prayer to the saints is only asking for the saint or saints to pray for you.

Just found it. The position of the Catholic Church is not that we pray to the saints. Rather we ask they they pray to God on our behalf.

How do you ask them without praying to them?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/25/2012 5:42:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 3:34:18 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/25/2012 1:00:26 PM, medic0506 wrote:
medic0506 I hope all is well..
You asked.. Does the Bible teach catechism as a necessary component of the one true church??
The Bible teaches the "Holy Catholic Church teaches TRUTH!!"
The Catechism is a BOOK the Catholic can turn to for answers to these TRUTHS that are taught by Jesus' Holy Church!!
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God"s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

This passage just talks about how church leaders are to live Godly lives and have their own homes in order if they are to run the church. This says nothing about the RCC being the one true church, or about catechism.

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

How is this verse relevant??

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

medic0506 The Bible tells CHRISTIANS; "The CHURCH Teaches truth, LISTEN TO HER!"

I'm sorry but I don't see how any of those verses rationalize or support catechism.

medic0506 You ask.. Does the Bible teach that "Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence", as stated in the CCC??
YUP!!
John 20:30
Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.


medic0506 Clearly MANY things "SIGNS" Jesus did were passed on by TRADITION in his Holy Church! John"s Gospel tells us that the Bible was composed so we can be helped to believe Jesus is the Messiah.
Scriptures do not say, the Bible is all we need for salvation, OR the Bible is all we need for theology; it does NOT say the Bible is even necessary to believe in Christ. The earliest Christians had no New Testament; they learned from oral teaching, no written, instructions.

Scriptures are "USEFUL" they are NOT ALONE used!
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.
17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.


The above verses that you posted shows that the Scriptures, and the Scriptures alone, will "thoroughly equip" the servant. This means that the Bible is all-sufficient. If it needed outside help it seems that would be mentioned here.

medic0506 you asked.. Does the Bible teach confession to a preist as a necessary component of salvation??

YES (DEEP QUESTION) FACT: No sins are allowed into heaven!
Sins must be removed before anyone can enter!
Simple answer is: Confession is a way to remove sins, it is The ONLY WAY to remove the deadly sins!

There are sins that do not need to be confessed to a priest. Sins that do not kill! Sins that DO NOT lead to death!
1 John 5:16
If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

There are sins that do KILL, sins that do lead the Christian to death! These sins MUST be removed by the PRIEST in the confessional!

After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his ministers.
John 20:21
Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you."
22 And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
23 If you forgive anyone"s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."


The Didache
"Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . On the Lord"s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure" (Didache 4:14, 14:1 [A.D. 70]).

For all peoples.. There are sins that can be removed by repentance, prayer, and acts of LOVE! These are small sins.. All peoples weather Christian or not can have them removed by Prayer & or LOVE!

Luke 7:46
You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet.
47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven"as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little."
48 Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

medic0506 This woman (above) was given life because she LOVED MUCH! She repented of her sins and she LOVED, so she was saved!

Scriptures teach us to pray, "And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors"!
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Confession to a priest is required for the forgiveness of mortal sins; it is not absolutely required. In extraordinary circumstances, mortal sins can be forgiven outside of sacramental confession. IF a Catholic is dying and cannot go to sacramental confession, his mortal sins may be forgiven if he repents with true contrition (sorrow for his sins) and has at least the implicit intention to go to sacramental confession if the opportunity is made available.

Otherwise Confession to a Priest is the only way!

Confession to a preist as a necessary For CHRISTIANS! For all others their only way is ACTIONS of the heart! LOVE working in faith! The Sheep at the end times judgement, enter heaven because they have ACTIONS of the heart!
The Goats go to the Lake of fire because they have "Faith ALONE"!

Hmmm...I see no justification for divisions of sin, nor do I see any reasoning for the Didache, as it's non-canonical. I'm going to do some deeper reading on this part before commenting further.
THEBOMB
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9/25/2012 5:49:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 5:28:26 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/25/2012 5:12:15 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 9/25/2012 5:08:00 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 9/25/2012 3:48:49 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I have a question. Why do Roman Catholics pray to saints and stuff when the Bible says not to do stuff like that?

I have heard many different interpretations and explanations for this. However I think you misunderstand the Catholic doctrine of intercession. Some explanations have described it as prayer with the saints, as we ask them to pray to God on our behalf. Others have explained that prayer is okay, as you can pray to someone without worshiping it. Once again, prayer to the saints is only asking for the saint or saints to pray for you.

Just found it. The position of the Catholic Church is not that we pray to the saints. Rather we ask they they pray to God on our behalf.

How do you ask them without praying to them?

prayer is worship. Unless you are worshiping the saints...
medic0506
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9/25/2012 5:55:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 3:48:11 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
I will debate you medic.

inb4 every non-Catholic in the religion forum uses this thread to attack Catholicism.

I'm not trying to make a point here, just asking legit questions. I've never actually sat down and talked to a Catholic (one who would be able to answer deep questions) about their beliefs and I figured this would be a good chance to get some answers.

This thread will cause me to have to do some research so I might take you up on the challenge on certain issues in a few days.
annanicole
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9/25/2012 5:59:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 5:55:58 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/25/2012 3:48:11 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
I will debate you medic.

inb4 every non-Catholic in the religion forum uses this thread to attack Catholicism.

I'm not trying to make a point here, just asking legit questions. I've never actually sat down and talked to a Catholic (one who would be able to answer deep questions) about their beliefs and I figured this would be a good chance to get some answers.

This thread will cause me to have to do some research so I might take you up on the challenge on certain issues in a few days.

If you do debate one, make sure that the standard of authority is the Bible and the Bible alone. And if it is, then it's doubtful that you'll get one to accept.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Composer
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9/25/2012 7:30:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At the end of the day, their own preferred Story book condemns those like catholics with their murderous historically recorded atrocities and past & current priestly sexual deviances -

A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, . . . . . . . . . (Matt. 7:18) catholic Story book RSV 1965 edition

A good tree cannot produce bad fruit . . . . . . . (Matt. 7:18) Digital catholic bible 1.3 Story book
Dogknox
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9/25/2012 9:45:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
THEBOMB You said..
prayer is worship. Unless you are worshiping the saints...
I reply.. Prayer is how we petition the saints!
The Thousands of miracles received by praying to Mary for her intercession for us and Jesus; PROVE Catholic's do NOT worship saints!
medic0506
Worship is for God alone!

Prayer is how those in heaven hear us.. God included!
Prayer is NOT worship if the pray is not in the form of worship to God!
Pray is petition if it is directed to the Saints!
The practice dates to the earliest days of Christianity and is shared by Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, the other Eastern Christians!!

medic0506
Scripture point to those in heaven, they are aware of the prayers of those on earth.
Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God"s people.

medic0506 Clearly if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

1 Tim. 2:5
"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus"

The saints petition "Jesus", he is the "Go to guy"!
There is one mediator.. That mediator is Jesus, he goes to the Father, he asks the Father to address Mary'/Saints petition!

medic0506 Moses and Elijah appear with Christ to the disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration they are NOT DEAD!!
They are neighbor to the Christian, all pray to Jesus, as your own neighbor would pray to Jesus for you!

Dogknox
THEBOMB
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9/25/2012 9:47:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 9:45:27 PM, Dogknox wrote:
THEBOMB You said..
prayer is worship. Unless you are worshiping the saints...
I reply.. Prayer is how we petition the saints!
The Thousands of miracles received by praying to Mary for her intercession for us and Jesus; PROVE Catholic's do NOT worship saints!
medic0506
Worship is for God alone!

Please tell me where I contested you on this point?

I have a question: Dognox, why the annoying posting style?
Dogknox
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9/25/2012 10:20:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
medic0506 You said.. (Church pillar and the foundation of truth)
This passage just talks about how church leaders are to live Godly lives and have their own homes in order if they are to run the church. This says nothing about the RCC being the one true church, or about catechism.
I Reply: There was NO other Church except the Holy Catholic Church.. The ONLY Church Peter Shepherds is the Holy Catholic Church!
The ONLY Church Jesus formed is the Holy Catholic Church!
The ONLY Church empowered at Pentecost is the Holy Catholic Church!
FACT: There was NO protestant church for 1600 more years so if you are looking for the Church Jesus formed DO NOT look there!

The Passage says: The Church pillar is the foundation of truth! It can only be the Bride of Christ the Holy Catholic Church!
You disagree?? Okay; "Name the church!!??

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

You asked How is this verse (above) relevant??
I reply: The Holy Spirit guides Jesus CHURCH into all truth! Again there was NO OTHERS!
The FACT there are the thousands and thousands of man made churches, all claiming to have the only truth and NONE are the same PROVES..
medic0506 It proves beyond all doubt.. The Holy Spirit is NOT guiding any of these protestant churches.. LOGIC ALONE says "The Holy Spirit cannot guide into error!"

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

medic0506 The Bible tells CHRISTIANS; "The CHURCH Teaches truth, LISTEN TO HER!"


You said.. I'm sorry but I don't see how any of those verses (above) rationalize or support catechism.

I reply: They tell you; "To LISTEN to the CHURCH!" The Catechism is her book, LISTEN to her!

Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his Church!!
Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his Church to the very end of the world!
There is NO need to "RESTORE" Jesus' Church he did not leave his Church!
lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

medic0506 The ONLY CHURCH Jesus is always with can't be your church it was NOT formed by Jesus!
Jesus did not leave his BRIDE, his Holy Catholic Church!
If Jesus is ALWAYS WITH His Holy Catholic Church then you fight against Jesus by rejecting his Holy Body!
You fight against Jesus by rejecting his words!
These verse are very relevant!

You said.. about the passage (below)
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.
17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.


The above verses that you posted shows that the Scriptures, and the Scriptures alone, will "thoroughly equip" the servant. This means that the Bible is all-sufficient. If it needed outside help it seems that would be mentioned here.
I reply: The ABOVE VERSE tells you "Scriptures are USEFUL!"
The verse does not say the Scriptures are ALONE used!
Useful for teaching!
Useful for rebuking!
Useful correcting!
Useful training in righteousness!
medic0506 The CHURCH Uses the scriptures for teaching!! Scriptures do not teach they are a book! TEACHERS TEACH they use books!
Church REBUKES!
Church TRAINS!
Church CORRECTS!

medic0506 The verse above proves "Scriptures CAN'T be ALONE!!!"

You said: I see no justification for divisions of sin, nor do I see any reasoning for the Didache, as it's non-canonical. I'm going to do some deeper reading on this part before commenting further.
I reply: The Didache PROVES "CHRISTIANS went to CHURCH to confess their sins to the bishop!"
It PROVES Christians confessed their sins!

You said: I see no justification for divisions of sin
1 John 5:16
If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

I reply: So you are saying you reject the scriptures! Is this it!?
There is justification for divisions of sin: It is the SCRIPTURES that divides sins!! God tells you there is division in sins! Different sins some worse, some not as worse!

There a sin that does not lead to death
&
There is a sin that leads to death.

This IS SCRIPTURES!!
There are different levels/kinds of sins!
Some sins kill the soul others only cripple the soul!! THIS IS SCRIPTURE 1 John 5:16 (above)

Dogknox
Dogknox
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9/25/2012 10:27:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 9:47:16 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 9/25/2012 9:45:27 PM, Dogknox wrote:
THEBOMB You said..
prayer is worship. Unless you are worshiping the saints...
I reply.. Prayer is how we petition the saints!
The Thousands of miracles received by praying to Mary for her intercession for us and Jesus; PROVE Catholic's do NOT worship saints!
medic0506
Worship is for God alone!

Please tell me where I contested you on this point?

I have a question: Dognox, why the annoying posting style?

Contested me? you did not me, You contested Christians!!
Christians pray to saints for help from God! It has always been so!

I tell it like it is!
To many protestant insult and accuse Catholic's!
I can't pussyfoot around.. I get to the point. I post the scriptures then argument, insults and accusation are all with God!

God bless...
Dogknox
THEBOMB
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9/25/2012 10:30:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/25/2012 10:27:05 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/25/2012 9:47:16 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 9/25/2012 9:45:27 PM, Dogknox wrote:
THEBOMB You said..
prayer is worship. Unless you are worshiping the saints...
I reply.. Prayer is how we petition the saints!
The Thousands of miracles received by praying to Mary for her intercession for us and Jesus; PROVE Catholic's do NOT worship saints!
medic0506
Worship is for God alone!

Please tell me where I contested you on this point?

I have a question: Dognox, why the annoying posting style?

Contested me? you did not me, You contested Christians!!
Christians pray to saints for help from God! It has always been so!

I tell it like it is!
To many protestant insult and accuse Catholic's!
I can't pussyfoot around.. I get to the point. I post the scriptures then argument, insults and accusation are all with God!

God bless...
Dogknox

I never argued against this doctrine of the Catholic Church, I actually agreed that it does not contradict any beliefs....