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What do you believe?

SWfiend
Posts: 16
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9/23/2009 3:54:18 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
We can all use umbrella terms such as Christian and Atheist and Agnostic, but those are rarely complete descriptions of who we are. Personally, I'm an agnostic atheist, but I want to believe in a God because I don't like the idea of nothing happening after death, but I accept it. What are some of the views that you hold that don't necessarily apply to your title?
BrandonClark
Posts: 500
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9/23/2009 4:17:47 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I think Atheism kind of sounds like a religion within itself so I like to think of myself as a non-theist.
BLACKHAWKS 6-5 lN OVERTIME!!!
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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9/23/2009 6:58:08 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I'm also an agnostic atheist and I myself will probably convert to Christianity when my life draws to an end for the exact same reasons as OP.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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9/23/2009 7:03:51 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/23/2009 6:58:08 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I'm also an agnostic atheist and I myself will probably convert to Christianity when my life draws to an end for the exact same reasons as OP.

Will suck if Islam is right...
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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9/23/2009 7:13:14 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/23/2009 3:54:18 PM, SWfiend wrote:
We can all use umbrella terms such as Christian and Atheist and Agnostic, but those are rarely complete descriptions of who we are. Personally, I'm an agnostic atheist, but I want to believe in a God because I don't like the idea of nothing happening after death, but I accept it. What are some of the views that you hold that don't necessarily apply to your title?

I'm also agnostic/atheist. Agnostic in the sense that I have no idea whether or not there's a "Master of the Universe", so to speak. If there is, I don't think it's any of our business. I'm atheist in the sense that if I had to make a bet, I'd bet against the idea of any guiding force or any being of any sort who had anything to do with the creation or running of this Universe.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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9/23/2009 7:17:09 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/23/2009 7:03:51 PM, Nags wrote:
At 9/23/2009 6:58:08 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I'm also an agnostic atheist and I myself will probably convert to Christianity when my life draws to an end for the exact same reasons as OP.

Will suck if Islam is right...

I think I'll get partial credit.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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9/23/2009 7:24:04 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
A religion is a set of beliefs regarding the nature and purpose of the universe. Therefore, science is a religion, but atheism is not necessarily one.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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9/23/2009 7:30:16 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/23/2009 7:24:04 PM, wjmelements wrote:
A religion is a set of beliefs regarding the nature and purpose of the universe. Therefore, science is a religion, but atheism is not necessarily one.

No.

1. Science does not attempt to explain the purpose of the universe.
2. While a concrete definition of religion is hard to come by (as is for most things), most religions include a system of practices, beliefs, narratives, etc. that dictate the experiences of one's life. Not only, but most of them also have an ethical theory, which often demands a particular type of lifestyle. Science does none of these (though it can lend support for a belief, practice, etc.)
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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9/23/2009 7:30:43 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/23/2009 6:58:08 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I'm also an agnostic atheist and I myself will probably convert to Christianity when my life draws to an end for the exact same reasons as OP.

I'm not sure if you are joking or not o.O.
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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9/23/2009 7:37:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/23/2009 7:30:43 PM, TheSkeptic wrote:
At 9/23/2009 6:58:08 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I'm also an agnostic atheist and I myself will probably convert to Christianity when my life draws to an end for the exact same reasons as OP.

I'm not sure if you are joking or not o.O.

I would bet that he is... even if Kleptin were to convert to theism towards the end of his life, I'm sure he can see that randomly picking Christianity is no better than randomly picking Sufiism.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
LB628
Posts: 176
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9/23/2009 9:14:03 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Atheistic Agnostic. I think that the existance of God/Gods is unlikely, and logically improbable, but nevertheless, it cannot be proven either way.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/23/2009 11:47:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/23/2009 6:58:39 PM, SWfiend wrote:
Religion = http://en.wikipedia.org...

Atheism is only the lack of belief in a God or Gods. Nothing more, nothing less. It isn't even close to a religion.

It's silly indeed, but Atheism is considered a religious belief by certain groups. For instance, my girlfriend is part of a club at her school called Atheists, Agnostics and Free Thinkers, and they don't receive any school funding because the powers that be deem it a religious club (though they are obviously anti-religion).
President of DDO
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/23/2009 11:57:00 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I'd say that I am an atheist; however, more precisely I am probably a believer in Spinoza's god at my core. So yes, I admit it - I'm a bit of a pantheist. To clarify, Spinoza was essentially an atheist (considering the Abrahamic monotheistic God) but instead believed that God = Nature. His philosophy was that everything is unified, and that while a personal God didn't exist, that the universe itself (or rather what exists that allowed the universe to even come into fruition) was essentially a God in the sense that it was the Creator, the Energy, the Infinite, the Everything. That's my personal take on it anyway.

In Spinozism, the concept of a personal relationship with God comes from the position that one is a part of an infinite interdependent "organism." Spinoza taught that everything is but a wave in an endless ocean, and that what happens to one wave will affect other waves. So, like myself, he was a Determinist. Einstein has said, ""I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."

To clarify, unlike Spinoza, I disagree that intuition is the highest form of knowledge. I also disagree with the kind of Spinozism that teaches a form of karma and supports this as a basis for morality.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/24/2009 12:00:11 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
On Facebook, I list my Religious Views as: Mathematics / Physics / Entheogens / PLURR (famous ecstasy or raver acronym and creed -- Peace, Love, Unity, Respect, Responsibility) / Secular Humanism
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/24/2009 12:08:11 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I don't believe in its explicit definition, as I've explained. There are some parts of it that I like a lot, and some aspects that are just insufficient.
President of DDO
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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9/24/2009 12:15:53 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/24/2009 12:08:11 AM, theLwerd wrote:
I don't believe in its explicit definition, as I've explained. There are some parts of it that I like a lot, and some aspects that are just insufficient.

Ah yeah, I caught that but what I mean is even the most bare forms of pantheism don't translate to much - in fact, they don't translate into anything at all. They don't amount to anything except for a different outlook in existence and life, kind of like being an optimist or pessimist.

In truth, I don't mind if someone is a pantheist or not, since it's not really a philosophical threat.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/24/2009 3:56:26 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I am an atheist.

However I pray and 'believe' with little confidence in an afterlife. I would be delighted to discover that evolution was utterly wrong. I don't actually consider this contradictory in the slightest.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
SWfiend
Posts: 16
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9/24/2009 1:01:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/24/2009 3:56:26 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I am an atheist.

However I pray and 'believe' with little confidence in an afterlife. I would be delighted to discover that evolution was utterly wrong. I don't actually consider this contradictory in the slightest.

The belief part is somewhat contradictory. Can you explain what you mean?
SWfiend
Posts: 16
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9/24/2009 1:02:59 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/23/2009 7:30:16 PM, TheSkeptic wrote:
At 9/23/2009 7:24:04 PM, wjmelements wrote:
A religion is a set of beliefs regarding the nature and purpose of the universe. Therefore, science is a religion, but atheism is not necessarily one.

No.

1. Science does not attempt to explain the purpose of the universe.
2. While a concrete definition of religion is hard to come by (as is for most things), most religions include a system of practices, beliefs, narratives, etc. that dictate the experiences of one's life. Not only, but most of them also have an ethical theory, which often demands a particular type of lifestyle. Science does none of these (though it can lend support for a belief, practice, etc.)

To add to this: http://dictionary.reference.com...
ToastOfDestiny
Posts: 990
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9/24/2009 1:25:18 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/23/2009 7:17:09 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 9/23/2009 7:03:51 PM, Nags wrote:
At 9/23/2009 6:58:08 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I'm also an agnostic atheist and I myself will probably convert to Christianity when my life draws to an end for the exact same reasons as OP.

Will suck if Islam is right...

I think I'll get partial credit.

Better to pick Islam and get extra credit if it's wrong =P.

I'm an atheist (not atheist agnostic) simply because I doubt that any of the world's religions are correct. If there is some supernatural deity not embodied in the world's religions, then I don't know about it and believing in it would be meaningless.
At 10/11/2009 8:28:18 PM, banker wrote:
Our demise and industrial destruction
At 10/11/2009 10:00:21 PM, regebro wrote:
Only exists in your head, as already shown.

At 10/11/2009 8:28:18 PM, banker wrote:
reveal why you answer with a question mark
At 10/11/2009 10:00:21 PM, regebro wrote:
Because it was a question.

RFDs Pl0x:
http://www.debate.org...
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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9/24/2009 1:31:30 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/23/2009 11:57:00 PM, theLwerd wrote:
I'd say that I am an atheist; however, more precisely I am probably a believer in Spinoza's god at my core. So yes, I admit it - I'm a bit of a pantheist. To clarify, Spinoza was essentially an atheist (considering the Abrahamic monotheistic God) but instead believed that God = Nature. His philosophy was that everything is unified, and that while a personal God didn't exist, that the universe itself (or rather what exists that allowed the universe to even come into fruition) was essentially a God in the sense that it was the Creator, the Energy, the Infinite, the Everything. That's my personal take on it anyway.

In Spinozism, the concept of a personal relationship with God comes from the position that one is a part of an infinite interdependent "organism." Spinoza taught that everything is but a wave in an endless ocean, and that what happens to one wave will affect other waves. So, like myself, he was a Determinist. Einstein has said, ""I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."

To clarify, unlike Spinoza, I disagree that intuition is the highest form of knowledge. I also disagree with the kind of Spinozism that teaches a form of karma and supports this as a basis for morality.

This is interesting. I was completely unaware of this "Spinoza" but I've always held a similar outlook, although a lot more monotonous.

As for your other points, I agree that intuition is not the highest form of knowledge. I think that the highest form of knowledge would be the ability to understand and predict future events.

For morality, I would say that morality does not exist because nothing we do has any inherent value, karmic or otherwise.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/24/2009 1:50:09 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/24/2009 1:31:30 PM, Kleptin wrote:

This is interesting. I was completely unaware of this "Spinoza" but I've always held a similar outlook, although a lot more monotonous.

As for your other points, I agree that intuition is not the highest form of knowledge. I think that the highest form of knowledge would be the ability to understand and predict future events.

For morality, I would say that morality does not exist because nothing we do has any inherent value, karmic or otherwise.

Spinoza is great. Like most philosophers, however, you've gotta be careful -- they're brilliant with some things and a little nuts on the others. I agree a lot with his concept of god and nature, though probably not to the extent that Geo would. I acknowledge that through/because of physics everything is connected, and that there is a higher order that is probably 'responsible' for these things, etc. I believe in objective morality to the point that nothing is intrinsically good or bad but instead linked to evolutionary concepts about survival.
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GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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9/24/2009 1:55:12 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
: At 9/23/2009 6:58:08 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I'm also an agnostic atheist and I myself will probably convert to Christianity when my life draws to an end for the exact same reasons as OP.

That moved me Kleptin. God bless you. But do not plan on a convertion, it either happens or it doesn't. You are neither immortal, you can die of other things but of old age.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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9/24/2009 1:59:14 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
: At 9/24/2009 1:55:12 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 9/23/2009 6:58:08 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I'm also an agnostic atheist and I myself will probably convert to Christianity when my life draws to an end for the exact same reasons as OP.

That moved me Kleptin. God bless you. But do not plan on a convertion, it either happens or it doesn't. You are neither immortal, you can die of other things but of old age.


That is hope. But you convert because you give up and repent, not because you are scared of death. You give up of your self. And trust in Jesus.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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9/24/2009 2:01:32 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/24/2009 1:59:14 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 9/24/2009 1:55:12 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 9/23/2009 6:58:08 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I'm also an agnostic atheist and I myself will probably convert to Christianity when my life draws to an end for the exact same reasons as OP.

That moved me Kleptin. God bless you. But do not plan on a convertion, it either happens or it doesn't. You are neither immortal, you can die of other things but of old age.


That is hope. But you convert because you give up and repent, not because you are scared of death.

What about conversions brought on by fear of Hell and/or God? As a fellow Christian, I'm curious if you find that to be acceptable.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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9/24/2009 2:27:48 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/24/2009 1:59:14 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 9/24/2009 1:55:12 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 9/23/2009 6:58:08 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I'm also an agnostic atheist and I myself will probably convert to Christianity when my life draws to an end for the exact same reasons as OP.

That moved me Kleptin. God bless you. But do not plan on a convertion, it either happens or it doesn't. You are neither immortal, you can die of other things but of old age.


That is hope. But you convert because you give up and repent, not because you are scared of death. You give up of your self. And trust in Jesus.

Kleptin, join Zonachality now and get an interest rate of up to 7% annually. All you have to do is surrender yourself to the great prophet Zonach!
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.