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If the Bible is true...

Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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9/29/2012 12:20:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
...then these conditions are real and verifiable outside of the Bible:

The universe is only six thousand years old, dinosaurs never existed, the world is flat and the earth is in the center of the universe, the Sun goes around the earth, demons, invisible spirits, ghosts, holy ghosts, demons, angels, snakes, bushes, and donkeys, can talk, virgin birth is possible, god and jesus live in the clouds above, prayer has secret powers over this god, miracles and blessing do occur, invisible souls can either be saved or unsaved, depending on what a person decides to believe in their heart, the heart is the center of all thought and emotion, people can talk to god and jesus with their heart, there is no such thing as a brain, people can be raised from the dead, people can walk on water, water can be turned into wine, 5000 people can easily be fed with two loaves and two fishes, only invisible jesus can save invisible souls, diseases are caused by demons, science is of the devil, a person can live in the belly of a whale for three days and nights, a whales'stomach acid has no effect upon humans.
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/29/2012 12:35:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You're beating a dead horse. All the Christians I know irl take the biblical parables figuratively, the dumb@$$es that don't are in the minority. Since their beliefs are likely not based on any logical appeal, responding to them with logic would be pointless.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
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9/29/2012 12:53:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 12:20:33 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
...then these conditions are real and verifiable outside of the Bible:

The universe is only six thousand years old, dinosaurs never existed, the world is flat and the earth is in the center of the universe, the Sun goes around the earth, demons, invisible spirits, ghosts, holy ghosts, demons, angels, snakes, bushes, and donkeys, can talk, virgin birth is possible, god and jesus live in the clouds above, prayer has secret powers over this god, miracles and blessing do occur, invisible souls can either be saved or unsaved, depending on what a person decides to believe in their heart, the heart is the center of all thought and emotion, people can talk to god and jesus with their heart, there is no such thing as a brain, people can be raised from the dead, people can walk on water, water can be turned into wine, 5000 people can easily be fed with two loaves and two fishes, only invisible jesus can save invisible souls, diseases are caused by demons, science is of the devil, a person can live in the belly of a whale for three days and nights, a whales'stomach acid has no effect upon humans.

only 6k years old?
dinosaurs never existed?
the earth is flat?
the earth is the center of the universe?
the sun goes around the earth?
God and Jesus live in the clouds?
prayer has secret powers over God?
diseases are caused by demons?
science is of the devil?

For real?!? Can you substantiate these claims using scripture?

"depending on what a person decides to believe in their heart, the heart is the center of all thought and emotion, people can talk to god and jesus with their heart, there is no such thing as a brain"
Not familiar with literature? You only recognize a literal interpretation of literature?
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
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9/29/2012 12:55:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 12:35:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
You're beating a dead horse. All the Christians I know irl take the biblical parables figuratively, the dumb@$$es that don't are in the minority. Since their beliefs are likely not based on any logical appeal, responding to them with logic would be pointless.

Most Christians I know enbrace logic as they believe God is logical and thus reality is logical. Christians simply hold to certain axioms that are not illogical, but logical and axioms that provide a rational understanding of reality.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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9/29/2012 12:58:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 12:35:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
You're beating a dead horse. All the Christians I know irl take the biblical parables figuratively, the dumb@$$es that don't are in the minority. Since their beliefs are likely not based on any logical appeal, responding to them with logic would be pointless.

http://xkcd.com...
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/29/2012 1:07:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
And all of Judea wept when the Torah was translated into other languages because there is a mathematical harmony in the hebrew words and much was lost in translation.

There are 3 ways to understand the bible. Literal, allegorical, in seeking and comparison with the other books, and a hidden mystery.

Most of Christianity and it's critics are all stuck on the first one.

It is a puzzle in pieces....
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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9/29/2012 1:09:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Everybody knows The Bible contradicts reality, so Christians don't take a literal view and interpret it in a vague way to make it still work.
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
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9/29/2012 1:23:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 1:09:33 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Everybody knows The Bible contradicts reality, so Christians don't take a literal view and interpret it in a vague way to make it still work.

Theism tends to contradict a materialists or naturalists view of reality. But on the contrary, a theists view on reality is a logic necessity, unless one embraces an infinite regressive falacy.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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9/29/2012 1:27:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 12:35:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
You're beating a dead horse. All the Christians I know irl take the biblical parables figuratively, the dumb@$$es that don't are in the minority. Since their beliefs are likely not based on any logical appeal, responding to them with logic would be pointless.

"The mythology is so complex, it's like I'm reading Lord of the Rings." -Spinko circa early 2012

Without the metaphorization of the Bible, the only people who would believe that it is a true and accurate tome are those select few dumbassesin the minority. Further, without the cover from religious moderates, those fringe beliefs either wouldn't exist or would exist in a nominal amount.
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Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/29/2012 1:29:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 1:23:17 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 9/29/2012 1:09:33 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Everybody knows The Bible contradicts reality, so Christians don't take a literal view and interpret it in a vague way to make it still work.

Theism tends to contradict a materialists or naturalists view of reality. But on the contrary, a theists view on reality is a logic necessity, unless one embraces an infinite regressive falacy.

I have successfully married science and spirituality to the undoing of dogmas on both sides of the fence.

The fence is Occam's razor.

....God help me! That sounded like something Composer might say! *facesmack*

;)
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/29/2012 1:29:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 1:27:13 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/29/2012 12:35:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
You're beating a dead horse. All the Christians I know irl take the biblical parables figuratively, the dumb@$$es that don't are in the minority. Since their beliefs are likely not based on any logical appeal, responding to them with logic would be pointless.

"The mythology is so complex, it's like I'm reading Lord of the Rings." -Spinko circa early 2012

Without the metaphorization of the Bible, the only people who would believe that it is a true and accurate tome...

Metaphors can't be true and accurate? o_O
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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9/29/2012 1:36:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 1:29:33 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/29/2012 1:27:13 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/29/2012 12:35:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
You're beating a dead horse. All the Christians I know irl take the biblical parables figuratively, the dumb@$$es that don't are in the minority. Since their beliefs are likely not based on any logical appeal, responding to them with logic would be pointless.

"The mythology is so complex, it's like I'm reading Lord of the Rings." -Spinko circa early 2012

Without the metaphorization of the Bible, the only people who would believe that it is a true and accurate tome...

Metaphors can't be true and accurate? o_O

I didn't say that. You invented that and placed upon me as something I said for common oversimplification purposes. Metaphors can be true and accurate; however, when I state something as fact and everyone who practices and teaches Wallstreetism accepts it as fact, then after scientific, archaeological, or logical scrutiny, it turns out to be false, and I say, "Well, it's really more of a metaphor." That is a dishonest and specious cop-out, as well as one that is likely untrue.
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Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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9/29/2012 1:41:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Here's a metaphor....The bible is like a giant conglomerate rock...there are gems and gold for those sifting for it...and there is all the coprolite one wants to find if they are more interested in throwing it at each other!
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/29/2012 1:44:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 1:36:23 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/29/2012 1:29:33 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/29/2012 1:27:13 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/29/2012 12:35:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
You're beating a dead horse. All the Christians I know irl take the biblical parables figuratively, the dumb@$$es that don't are in the minority. Since their beliefs are likely not based on any logical appeal, responding to them with logic would be pointless.

"The mythology is so complex, it's like I'm reading Lord of the Rings." -Spinko circa early 2012

Without the metaphorization of the Bible, the only people who would believe that it is a true and accurate tome...

Metaphors can't be true and accurate? o_O

I didn't say that. You invented that and placed upon me as something I said for common oversimplification purposes. Metaphors can be true and accurate; however, when I state something as fact and everyone who practices and teaches Wallstreetism accepts it as fact, then after scientific, archaeological, or logical scrutiny, it turns out to be false, and I say, "Well, it's really more of a metaphor." That is a dishonest and specious cop-out, as well as one that is likely untrue.

I'm guessing you haven't studied much church history, have you? Because most of these things that people like to say that "every Christian" used to believe was "literal" until scientific, archaelogical, or logical scrunity proved them wrong then they took the more "metaphorical route" simply weren't/aren't the case. (cf. "Every Christian took Genesis literally until ***science*** proved them wrong, then they said it was a metaphor!!!!111")
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
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Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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9/29/2012 4:49:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 1:44:23 PM, popculturepooka wrote:

I'm guessing you haven't studied much church history, have you? Because most of these things that people like to say that "every Christian" used to believe was "literal" until scientific, archaelogical, or logical scrunity proved them wrong then they took the more "metaphorical route" simply weren't/aren't the case. (cf. "Every Christian took Genesis literally until ***science*** proved them wrong, then they said it was a metaphor!!!!111")

Thanks for the snide remark, a further indication of the fragility of Christianity. My rebuttal to your statement would be the modern battle between Evolution and Creationism. Saying it was a metaphor after a preponderant majority had believed it literally is a cop-out.
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popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/29/2012 5:32:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 4:49:42 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/29/2012 1:44:23 PM, popculturepooka wrote:

I'm guessing you haven't studied much church history, have you? Because most of these things that people like to say that "every Christian" used to believe was "literal" until scientific, archaelogical, or logical scrunity proved them wrong then they took the more "metaphorical route" simply weren't/aren't the case. (cf. "Every Christian took Genesis literally until ***science*** proved them wrong, then they said it was a metaphor!!!!111")

Thanks for the snide remark,

That was snide? lol Have you?

a further indication of the fragility of Christianity.

How?

My rebuttal to your statement would be the modern battle between Evolution and Creationism. Saying it was a metaphor after a preponderant majority had believed it literally is a cop-out.

That's not a rebuttal....
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Blind-Faith
Posts: 65
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9/29/2012 7:15:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Wallstreetatheist wrote,

dinosaurs never existed?

Yes they did, they were jut too big to fit on the Ark.
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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9/29/2012 7:35:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 12:20:33 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
...then these conditions are real and verifiable outside of the Bible:

The universe is only six thousand years old, dinosaurs never existed, the world is flat and the earth is in the center of the universe, the Sun goes around the earth, demons, invisible spirits, ghosts, holy ghosts, demons, angels, snakes, bushes, and donkeys, can talk, virgin birth is possible, god and jesus live in the clouds above, prayer has secret powers over this god, miracles and blessing do occur, invisible souls can either be saved or unsaved, depending on what a person decides to believe in their heart, the heart is the center of all thought and emotion, people can talk to god and jesus with their heart, there is no such thing as a brain, people can be raised from the dead, people can walk on water, water can be turned into wine, 5000 people can easily be fed with two loaves and two fishes, only invisible jesus can save invisible souls, diseases are caused by demons, science is of the devil, a person can live in the belly of a whale for three days and nights, a whales'stomach acid has no effect upon humans.

Do an experiment for 1 year. Read the bible if you haven't then live your life according to the words in it. You don't even have to come out and say you are saved and believe in god. Your life will improve if it sucks and you will prosper if you are poor. You have nothing to loose except be scorned by atheists for doing so. But you will find that you will have to rid yourself of most of your current friends holding you down. You focus to much on literal meaning. The bible is a collection of scenarios in life from which to learn from. Anything you will face in life is already written in the bible and tells the best way to deal with what comes your way. There are no new ideas with regard to social propensities. Everything has been there did that done that.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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9/29/2012 7:59:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 5:32:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/29/2012 4:49:42 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/29/2012 1:44:23 PM, popculturepooka wrote:

I'm guessing you haven't studied much church history, have you? Because most of these things that people like to say that "every Christian" used to believe was "literal" until scientific, archaelogical, or logical scrunity proved them wrong then they took the more "metaphorical route" simply weren't/aren't the case. (cf. "Every Christian took Genesis literally until ***science*** proved them wrong, then they said it was a metaphor!!!!111")

Thanks for the snide remark,

That was snide? lol Have you?

a further indication of the fragility of Christianity.

How?

My rebuttal to your statement would be the modern battle between Evolution and Creationism. Saying it was a metaphor after a preponderant majority had believed it literally is a cop-out.

That's not a rebuttal....

You said the process of metaphorization of biblical claims doesn't really happen, and that I would know better if I read church history. Evolution is an example of a metaphorization influence on creationism. Do you believe in evolution btw? Also, do you take issue with any of the biblical claims in the OP, or do you accept the bible without question its veracity?
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Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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9/30/2012 11:15:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 1:23:17 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 9/29/2012 1:09:33 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Everybody knows The Bible contradicts reality, so Christians don't take a literal view and interpret it in a vague way to make it still work.

Theism tends to contradict a materialists or naturalists view of reality. But on the contrary, a theists view on reality is a logic necessity, unless one embraces an infinite regressive falacy.

No you embrace a infinite regress, God's thoughts. Unless you believe God had a first thought, you have to believe in an infinite regress.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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9/30/2012 11:17:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 1:23:17 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 9/29/2012 1:09:33 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Everybody knows The Bible contradicts reality, so Christians don't take a literal view and interpret it in a vague way to make it still work.

Theism tends to contradict a materialists or naturalists view of reality. But on the contrary, a theists view on reality is a logic necessity, unless one embraces an infinite regressive falacy.

Regardless, even if something "infinite" needs to ground our finite universe, there is no reason why it has to be God. It could be literally anything...
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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9/30/2012 12:32:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 12:20:33 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
...then these conditions are real and verifiable outside of the Bible:

The universe is only six thousand years old, dinosaurs never existed, the world is flat and the earth is in the center of the universe, the Sun goes around the earth, demons, invisible spirits, ghosts, holy ghosts, demons, angels, snakes, bushes, and donkeys, can talk, virgin birth is possible, god and jesus live in the clouds above, prayer has secret powers over this god, miracles and blessing do occur, invisible souls can either be saved or unsaved, depending on what a person decides to believe in their heart, the heart is the center of all thought and emotion, people can talk to god and jesus with their heart, there is no such thing as a brain, people can be raised from the dead, people can walk on water, water can be turned into wine, 5000 people can easily be fed with two loaves and two fishes, only invisible jesus can save invisible souls, diseases are caused by demons, science is of the devil, a person can live in the belly of a whale for three days and nights, a whales'stomach acid has no effect upon humans.

Thomas Aquinas, Saint Augustine, Maimonides, and other theologians rejected a literal interpretation of Genesis. Suck it creationists.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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9/30/2012 12:39:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 12:20:33 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
...then these conditions are real and verifiable outside of the Bible:

The universe is only six thousand years old,

False.

dinosaurs never existed,

False.

the world is flat and the earth is in the center of the universe,

False.

the Sun goes around the earth,

Big false.

demons, invisible spirits, ghosts, holy ghosts, demons, angels, snakes, bushes, and donkeys, can talk, virgin birth is possible,

True.

god and jesus live in the clouds above,

False.

prayer has secret powers over this god,

False.

miracles and blessing do occur,

True.

invisible souls can either be saved or unsaved, depending on what a person decides to believe in their heart,

False.

the heart is the center of all thought and emotion,

Physically speaking, false.

people can talk to god and jesus with their heart,

False.

there is no such thing as a brain,

False.

people can be raised from the dead, people can walk on water, water can be turned into wine, 5000 people can easily be fed with two loaves and two fishes,

True.

only invisible jesus can save invisible souls,

False.

diseases are caused by demons,

Yes and no. Lepers, for example, were simply sick.

science is of the devil,

False.

a person can live in the belly of a whale for three days and nights,

True.

a whales'stomach acid has no effect upon humans.

False.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/30/2012 1:02:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 7:59:32 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/29/2012 5:32:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/29/2012 4:49:42 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/29/2012 1:44:23 PM, popculturepooka wrote:

I'm guessing you haven't studied much church history, have you? Because most of these things that people like to say that "every Christian" used to believe was "literal" until scientific, archaelogical, or logical scrunity proved them wrong then they took the more "metaphorical route" simply weren't/aren't the case. (cf. "Every Christian took Genesis literally until ***science*** proved them wrong, then they said it was a metaphor!!!!111")

Thanks for the snide remark,

That was snide? lol Have you?

a further indication of the fragility of Christianity.

How?

My rebuttal to your statement would be the modern battle between Evolution and Creationism. Saying it was a metaphor after a preponderant majority had believed it literally is a cop-out.

That's not a rebuttal....

You said the process of metaphorization of biblical claims doesn't really happen,

No, I didn't.

and that I would know better if I read church history.

I'm saying your claims about what "every Christian" did(n't) believe are spurious.

Evolution is an example of a metaphorization influence on creationism.

There were "metaphorical interpretations" before the advent of modern science.

Do you believe in evolution btw?

Yes.

Also, do you take issue with any of the biblical claims in the OP, or do you accept the bible without question its veracity?

Uh, I don't accept that the bible teaches most of those claims.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Aaronroy
Posts: 749
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9/30/2012 3:01:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Earth has four corners. The Sun goes round the Earth. The Earth is less than 6,000 years old. Goats have striped babies when bred in a striped environment. I'm still waiting on science to support these Biblical world views.
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