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Do the souls of aborted babies go to heaven?

Wallstreetatheist
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10/1/2012 5:06:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Abortion as we know it today was not practiced in biblical times, and the Bible never specifically mentions the issue of abortion. It is clear from the Scriptures that an unborn baby is known by the Lord, even from the time of conception (Psalm 139:13-16). Although the Bible does not mention abortion or aborted babies, we do have two keys to help us unlock the answer to the question of whether the souls of aborted babies go to heaven.

The first key is from the only passage in the Bible where something specific is said about the death of infants. In 2 Samuel 12 we learn of David"s affair with Bathsheba, another man"s wife. David was informed by the prophet Nathan that the child produced by that union would die. David then began to fast and pray, asking the Lord to not carry out His judgment. When the child did die, David got up from praying and fasting and ate something.

When asked about this behavior, David uttered the words recorded in 2 Samuel 12:23, "now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." David"s words reflect a clear understanding that the child could not come back to earth, but David would be with his child one day in heaven. This indicates not only David"s assurance of his own future in heaven (Psalm 23:6), but also the assurance that his child would share that future. From this incident, we can conclude that infants, both born and unborn, are destined for heaven.

The second key to dealing with this issue is an understanding of the character or attributes of God. A study of the attributes of God helps us understand how He works. A God of pure justice would not punish children for sins they never committed, for the Bible teaches us that "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). Neither an unborn child nor an aborted baby has had the opportunity to sin and therefore is not subject to the judgment reserved for sinners. Further, God reveals Himself as a God who is good (Psalm 52:1) and as the perfect Judge (Genesis 18:25). In this Genesis passage we find Abraham express the heartfelt thought, "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" The answer is an emphatic "yes." A good, righteous and holy God would not punish an unborn child with an eternity in hell. Psalm 145:17 tells us, "The LORD is righteous in all His ways, Gracious in all His works."

Without a specific passage that answers the initial question asked about the souls of aborted babies, and based on God"s love, His goodness, His righteousness, and His perfect justice, it is appropriate to conclude that these precious children are immediately in the presence of God when their lives are cut short by the act of an abortion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

If Christianity is true, and this interpretation of the Bible is true that aborted fetus souls go to heaven, why would you not be in favor of abortion? For the soul of an aborted fetus automatically gets sent to an eternity in heaven regardless of the religion of his/her parents, whereas living an extremely finite lifespan on Earth gives you the probability of over 2/3 of not being a Christian, and being sent to hell. If I believed Christianity was true, I would have wished to be guaranteed heaven as an aborted fetus than risk it on Earth being born to non-Christians or converting/losing my religion.

What do you think?
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000ike
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10/1/2012 5:21:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is only mildly relevant:

For the people that believe that humans have souls, but objects do not, they need to draw a clear demarcation when it comes to babies, fetuses, and zygotes. In the same fashion that each individual cell in your body, or your gametes for that matter, are soulless automatons and mere biological "objects",...a multicellular zygote can't possibly have any soul. So at what point does the soul enter this picture...and since it didn't exist from the start, there is necessity to explain what caused it to infiltrate the physical body and at what time this happened. It seems silly to believe in souls altogether without first addressing these details.
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Wallstreetatheist
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10/1/2012 6:59:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm assuming Christianity is true for this assessment.

Various Christian theologians debate whether "ensoulment" happens at conception or later on in the gestation period, but all agree that it occurs before birth.
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Wallstreetatheist
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10/1/2012 6:59:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is the OP everyone:

If Christianity is true, and this interpretation of the Bible is true that aborted fetus souls go to heaven, why would you not be in favor of abortion? For the soul of an aborted fetus automatically gets sent to an eternity in heaven regardless of the religion of his/her parents, whereas living an extremely finite lifespan on Earth gives you the probability of over 2/3 of not being a Christian, and being sent to hell. If I believed Christianity was true, I would have wished to be guaranteed heaven as an aborted fetus than risk it on Earth being born to non-Christians or converting/losing my religion.

What do you think?
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imabench
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10/1/2012 7:14:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Aborted baby souls only go to heaven if the babies that would have been born would have been white. Aborted fetuses that would have been black, brown, or mexican would go right to hell.

(end trolling)
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Magicr
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10/1/2012 8:08:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 7:26:36 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
Babies are innocent, completely, Yes they Do!

So if aborted babies go to heaven without having to go through any of the hardships of life, would we not be doing them a favor by aborting them?
ScottyDouglas
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10/1/2012 8:21:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 8:08:31 PM, Magicr wrote:
At 10/1/2012 7:26:36 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
Babies are innocent, completely, Yes they Do!

So if aborted babies go to heaven without having to go through any of the hardships of life, would we not be doing them a favor by aborting them?

Oh, you are doing them a favor for sure, but that makes the people who do such things murders and immoral.
TheAsylum
Magicr
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10/1/2012 8:23:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 8:21:16 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 10/1/2012 8:08:31 PM, Magicr wrote:
At 10/1/2012 7:26:36 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
Babies are innocent, completely, Yes they Do!

So if aborted babies go to heaven without having to go through any of the hardships of life, would we not be doing them a favor by aborting them?

Oh, you are doing them a favor for sure, but that makes the people who do such things murders and immoral.

Why is it immoral if you are doing them a favor?
Wallstreetatheist
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10/1/2012 9:52:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 8:23:37 PM, Magicr wrote:
At 10/1/2012 8:21:16 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 10/1/2012 8:08:31 PM, Magicr wrote:
At 10/1/2012 7:26:36 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
Babies are innocent, completely, Yes they Do!

So if aborted babies go to heaven without having to go through any of the hardships of life, would we not be doing them a favor by aborting them?

Oh, you are doing them a favor for sure, but that makes the people who do such things murders and immoral.

Why is it immoral if you are doing them a favor?

It would be immoral based on first principle, but through consequentialist ethics, you'd be super-Mother Teresa!
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ScottyDouglas
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10/1/2012 11:26:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 8:23:37 PM, Magicr wrote:

Oh, you are doing them a favor for sure, but that makes the people who do such things murders and immoral.

Why is it immoral if you are doing them a favor?

Why don't you think about it awhile! The aborters are murders and depriving innocant babies the choice of life. There is no difference in going into a hospital and bashing the head of every new born in the baby ward. Murder. Dispicable.
TheAsylum
Wallstreetatheist
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10/1/2012 11:43:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 11:26:59 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 10/1/2012 8:23:37 PM, Magicr wrote:

Oh, you are doing them a favor for sure, but that makes the people who do such things murders and immoral.

Why is it immoral if you are doing them a favor?

Why don't you think about it awhile! The aborters are murders and depriving innocant babies the choice of life. There is no difference in going into a hospital and bashing the head of every new born in the baby ward. Murder. Dispicable.

I would sign up today if I knew getting my head smashed in was a ticket to eternal paradise.
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AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/2/2012 12:27:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 11:43:29 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
I would sign up today if I knew getting my head smashed in was a ticket to eternal paradise.

According to you, all babies are atheists though.

So knowing what you know now, would you sign up to get your head smashed in if someone told you that would get you to heaven?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Wallstreetatheist
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10/2/2012 12:40:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
According to you, all babies are atheists though. So knowing what you know now, would you sign up to get your head smashed in if someone told you that would get you to heaven?

Never mind the fact that a baby is not a fetus, I assumed Christianity was true for this question. If Christianity was true, I would like to have been aborted, so that I could go to an eternal paradise; however, I would only be able to advocate that post facto, as fetuses can't talk. According to Christianity, fetuses have souls, and an abortion would result in the soul automatically go to heaven. My personal opinion is irrelevant to the conversation in this thread.
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AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/2/2012 12:44:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 12:40:04 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Never mind the fact that a baby is not a fetus, I assumed Christianity was true for this question. If Christianity was true, I would like to have been aborted, so that I could go to an eternal paradise; however, I would only be able to advocate that post facto, as fetuses can't talk. According to Christianity, fetuses have souls, and an abortion would result in the soul automatically go to heaven. My personal opinion is irrelevant to the conversation in this thread.

Even if Christianity were true, and you were still an atheist, would you like to be smashed?

If you believe a baby to be an atheist, I don't know why you would believe a fetus to be anything different.

An atheist fetus probably wouldn't want to get smashed even if Christianity was true, because it doesn't know that Christianity is true.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Composer
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10/2/2012 3:51:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
1. Story book Heaven going for all genuine believers is BS propaganda!

Please show me the evidence I am incorrect & I'll examine it for signs of legitimacy?

2. Story book bible NEVER mentions a single person being given a ' soul '?

Please show me the evidence I am incorrect & likewise I'll also examine what is presented?

Far far far far far far far far better luck than your entire predecessors!
ScottyDouglas
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10/2/2012 4:52:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 3:51:14 AM, Composer wrote:
1. Story book Heaven going for all genuine believers is BS propaganda!

Please show me the evidence I am incorrect & I'll examine it for signs of legitimacy?:
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.infoplease.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
When you can explain what is in other dimensions and heaven is not in it then you can talk. Since no one know's what is in other dimensions then how can it be propaganda? It can very well be the case. Since heaven has been a theory before our knowledge of extra dimensions then there is a chance that heaven also is not just propganda but based off something real.

2. Story book bible NEVER mentions a single person being given a ' soul '?

Please show me the evidence I am incorrect & likewise I'll also examine what is presented?

Genesis 2:7

Yahweh God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 17:14

The uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that soul shall be cut off from his people. He has broken my covenant."

Genesis 27:19

Jacob said to his father, "I am Esau your firstborn. I have done what you asked me to do. Please arise, sit and eat of my venison, that your soul may bless me."

Genesis 27:25

He said, "Bring it near to me, and I will eat of my son's venison, that my soul may bless you." He brought it near to him, and he ate. He brought him wine, and he drank.

Genesis 27:31

He also made savory food, and brought it to his father. He said to his father, "Let my father arise, and eat of his son's venison, that your soul may bless me."

Genesis 34:3

His soul joined to Dinah, the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the young lady, and spoke kindly to the young lady.

Genesis 34:8

Hamor talked with them, saying, "The soul of my son, Shechem, longs for your daughter. Please give her to him as a wife.

Genesis 35:18

It happened, as her soul was departing (for she died), that she named him Ben-oni, but his father named him Benjamin.

Genesis 42:21

They said one to another, "We are most assuredly guilty concerning our brother, in that we saw the distress of his soul, when he begged us, and we wouldn't listen. Therefore this distress has come on us."

Genesis 46:15

These are the sons of Leah, whom she bore to Jacob in Paddan Aram, with his daughter Dinah. All the souls of his sons and his daughters were thirty-three.

Genesis 46:18

These are the sons of Zilpah, whom Laban gave to Leah, his daughter, and these she bore to Jacob, even sixteen souls.

Genesis 46:22

These are the sons of Rachel, who were born to Jacob: all the souls were fourteen.

Genesis 46:25

These are the sons of Bilhah, whom Laban gave to Rachel, his daughter, and these she bore to Jacob: all the souls were seven.

Genesis 46:26

All the souls who came with Jacob into Egypt, who were his direct descendants, besides Jacob's sons' wives, all the souls were sixty-six.

Genesis 46:27

The sons of Joseph, who were born to him in Egypt, were two souls. All the souls of the house of Jacob, who came into Egypt, were seventy.

Genesis 49:6

My soul, don't come into their council; My glory, don't be united to their assembly; For in their anger they killed a man, In their self-will they hamstrung an ox.

Exodus 1:5

All the souls who came out of the Jacob's body were seventy souls, and Joseph was in Egypt already.

Exodus 12:4

and if the household be too little for a lamb, then he and his neighbor next to his house shall take one according to the number of the souls; according to what everyone can eat you shall make your count for the lamb.

Think we get the point!
TheAsylum
Composer
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10/2/2012 6:15:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 4:52:55 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 10/2/2012 3:51:14 AM, Composer wrote:
1. Story book Heaven going for all genuine believers is BS propaganda!

Please show me the evidence I am incorrect & I'll examine it for signs of legitimacy?:

At 10/2/2012 4:52:55 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.infoplease.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
When you can explain what is in other dimensions and heaven is not in it then you can talk. Since no one know's what is in other dimensions then how can it be propaganda? It can very well be the case. Since heaven has been a theory before our knowledge of extra dimensions then there is a chance that heaven also is not just propganda but based off something real.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: I am stilllllllllllllll waiting for Story book evidence that ALL genuine believers are stated to actually ' go there/ascend there where Story book jebus went? '.


2. Story book bible NEVER mentions a single person being given a ' soul '?

Please show me the evidence I am incorrect & likewise I'll also examine what is presented?

Genesis 2:7

Yahweh God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Nothing there to show any man was ' given a Soul? '

cf. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; (1 Cor. 15:45) KJV Story book

NB: Was made!

Nothing about ' was given a soul! '

At 10/2/2012 4:52:55 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
Genesis 17:14

The uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that soul shall be cut off from his people. He has broken my covenant."

Genesis 27:19

Jacob said to his father, "I am Esau your firstborn. I have done what you asked me to do. Please arise, sit and eat of my venison, that your soul may bless me."

Genesis 27:25

He said, "Bring it near to me, and I will eat of my son's venison, that my soul may bless you." He brought it near to him, and he ate. He brought him wine, and he drank.

Genesis 27:31

He also made savory food, and brought it to his father. He said to his father, "Let my father arise, and eat of his son's venison, that your soul may bless me."

Genesis 34:3

His soul joined to Dinah, the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the young lady, and spoke kindly to the young lady.



Genesis 34:8

Hamor talked with them, saying, "The soul of my son, Shechem, longs for your daughter. Please give her to him as a wife.



Genesis 35:18

It happened, as her soul was departing (for she died), that she named him Ben-oni, but his father named him Benjamin.



Genesis 42:21

They said one to another, "We are most assuredly guilty concerning our brother, in that we saw the distress of his soul, when he begged us, and we wouldn't listen. Therefore this distress has come on us."



Genesis 46:15

These are the sons of Leah, whom she bore to Jacob in Paddan Aram, with his daughter Dinah. All the souls of his sons and his daughters were thirty-three.



Genesis 46:18

These are the sons of Zilpah, whom Laban gave to Leah, his daughter, and these she bore to Jacob, even sixteen souls.



Genesis 46:22

These are the sons of Rachel, who were born to Jacob: all the souls were fourteen.



Genesis 46:25

These are the sons of Bilhah, whom Laban gave to Rachel, his daughter, and these she bore to Jacob: all the souls were seven.



Genesis 46:26

All the souls who came with Jacob into Egypt, who were his direct descendants, besides Jacob's sons' wives, all the souls were sixty-six.



Genesis 46:27

The sons of Joseph, who were born to him in Egypt, were two souls. All the souls of the house of Jacob, who came into Egypt, were seventy.



Genesis 49:6

My soul, don't come into their council; My glory, don't be united to their assembly; For in their anger they killed a man, In their self-will they hamstrung an ox.



Exodus 1:5

All the souls who came out of the Jacob's body were seventy souls, and Joseph was in Egypt already.



Exodus 12:4

and if the household be too little for a lamb, then he and his neighbor next to his house shall take one according to the number of the souls; according to what everyone can eat you shall make your count for the lamb.

Think we get the point!

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: You have no credible point!

All you have typically done is show some Story book passages that contain the term ' soul '.

Man ' became a living soul ' but was NEVER GIVEN a Soul, let alone an Immortal one, it simply means they became a living, breathing human being!

. . . . the soul that sinneth, it shall die. (Ezek. 18:4) KJV Story book

As the ' Soul ' can die, it obviously can not possibly be Immortal!

Conversely, as the ' Soul ' refers specifically to the living person, that living person/living soul can die (because of Story book sin apparently?), because it is NOT Immortal!

Hence your entire ' evidence ' remains as with your entire predecessors, a value of zero for your cause!
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/2/2012 7:06:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 6:15:26 AM, Composer wrote:
Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Nothing there to show any man was ' given a Soul? '

Me AlwaysMoreThanYou the ongoing successful Composer buster: Ecclesiastes 12:7

"(7) And the dust returns to the earth as it once was, and the soul returns to God who gave it."

Matthew 10:28

"(28) And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."

Me AlwaysMoreThanYou the ongoing successful Composer buster: You have no credible point!

As the ' Soul ' can die, it obviously can not possibly be Immortal!

It doesn't have to be, you dimwit!

Definition of soul: "The spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal,"

Hence your entire ' evidence ' remains as with your entire predecessors, a value of zero for your cause!

Easily proven WRONG!

So far you remain a liar, coward, deceiver, and fraud, LOL!

Next!
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
annanicole
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10/2/2012 8:16:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Composer's problem (well, his main problem other than stupidity) is that he's not smart enough to array the Bible against itself. He doesn't know what it says: he knows little snippets here and there, but overall he's simply ignorant. That's why he refuses a formal debate on the Trinity or godhead. Absolutely refuses. He knows I'd utilize the one-hour response time, and he's not capable of responding that quickly. My prediction is: he'll also refuse a debate on whether the Bible teaches that man has an eternal spirit or soul. Heck, he has to refuse and tries to save face by saying, "Start a thread." Then he'll endlessly copy and paste. LOL He's a joke.
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Wallstreetatheist
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10/2/2012 5:39:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 12:44:27 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/2/2012 12:40:04 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Never mind the fact that a baby is not a fetus, I assumed Christianity was true for this question. If Christianity was true, I would like to have been aborted, so that I could go to an eternal paradise; however, I would only be able to advocate that post facto, as fetuses can't talk. According to Christianity, fetuses have souls, and an abortion would result in the soul automatically go to heaven. My personal opinion is irrelevant to the conversation in this thread.

Even if Christianity were true, and you were still an atheist, would you like to be smashed?

If Christianity was true, and I was a fetus or a young baby, I would have no choice but go to heaven if I was killed/aborted (what's the difference anyway haha).

If you believe a baby to be an atheist, I don't know why you would believe a fetus to be anything different.

In Christianity, the baby has a soul, and the soul goes to heaven if it is killed.

An atheist fetus probably wouldn't want to get smashed even if Christianity was true, because it doesn't know that Christianity is true.

Fetuses don't possess the reasoning necessary to take a personal stance on either. They are guaranteed access to heaven. It doesn't matter whether they know anything at that point because if they were to be aborted, they receive a free ride to heaven, no questions asked.
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ScottyDouglas
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10/2/2012 6:34:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 5:46:05 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Anyone else want to address the OP?

WSA, I know you can comprehend that babies are blameless. I know you can comprehend that you are not blameless. Therefore, yes, babies get a free ride per say, you do not. You mite not know but the Bible says numerous times that we should be as children and then we can inherit the kingdom of heaven.
TheAsylum
Wallstreetatheist
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10/2/2012 7:00:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 6:34:36 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 10/2/2012 5:46:05 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Anyone else want to address the OP?

WSA, I know you can comprehend that babies are blameless. I know you can comprehend that you are not blameless. Therefore, yes, babies get a free ride per say, you do not. You might* not know, but the Bible says numerous times that we should be as children and then we can inherit the kingdom of heaven.

That's basically what the OP says. Blameless fetuses, babies, and children go to Heaven.
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Wallstreetatheist
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10/2/2012 7:02:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 7:00:49 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2012 6:34:36 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 10/2/2012 5:46:05 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Anyone else want to address the OP?

WSA, I know you can comprehend that babies are blameless. I know you can comprehend that you are not blameless. Therefore, yes, babies get a free ride per say, you do not. You might* not know, but the Bible says numerous times that we should be as children and then we can inherit the kingdom of heaven.

That's basically what the OP says. Blameless fetuses, babies, and children go to Heaven.
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Magicr
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10/2/2012 7:25:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 11:26:59 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 10/1/2012 8:23:37 PM, Magicr wrote:

Oh, you are doing them a favor for sure, but that makes the people who do such things murders and immoral.

Why is it immoral if you are doing them a favor?

Why don't you think about it awhile! The aborters are murders and depriving innocant babies the choice of life. There is no difference in going into a hospital and bashing the head of every new born in the baby ward. Murder. Dispicable.

I've been thinking awfully hard about it, Scotty. But WSA's point still stands: Why would it be bad to send a baby directly to heaven. That sounds like a good thing to me. Additionally, according to your religious logic, the only reason it is immoral to bash in newborn babies' heads is because of that brief pain that they would endure and the sadness of their parents. This small amount of suffering pales in comparison to the prospect of eternal happiness without even risking eternal punishment or enduring suffering that could be encountered in a sustained life.
ScottyDouglas
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10/2/2012 7:34:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 7:25:31 PM, Magicr wrote:

I've been thinking awfully hard about it, Scotty. But WSA's point still stands: Why would it be bad to send a baby directly to heaven. That sounds like a good thing to me. Additionally, according to your religious logic, the only reason it is immoral to bash in newborn babies' heads is because of that brief pain that they would endure and the sadness of their parents. This small amount of suffering pales in comparison to the prospect of eternal happiness without even risking eternal punishment or enduring suffering that could be encountered in a sustained life.

WOW! I feel ashmed of a people and society that finds not to much wrong with bashing in babies brains. But here goes. Do you appreciate being alive and having life? Who has any right to kill anyone much less a baby? Not only are you taking away the enjoyment and pride of parenthood from the parents but you are denying the freedom and choice of life for that baby. Who has the right to say which baby would want that freedom or not? Do you not reconize this takes away freedom? This not only leads to the loss of freedom for children but also adults as well. Since this leads to going to heaven and ultimately God, God gave life and freedom, therefore you taking that away which was freely given by that God. God will accept that baby with open arms but think about you and those who killed that baby, you think He will acceot your decision with open arms? He gave that life, He gave that freedom for it, You took it, You deny what God gave. Does that make any sense on your part?
TheAsylum
Magicr
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10/2/2012 7:41:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 7:34:36 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 10/2/2012 7:25:31 PM, Magicr wrote:

I've been thinking awfully hard about it, Scotty. But WSA's point still stands: Why would it be bad to send a baby directly to heaven. That sounds like a good thing to me. Additionally, according to your religious logic, the only reason it is immoral to bash in newborn babies' heads is because of that brief pain that they would endure and the sadness of their parents. This small amount of suffering pales in comparison to the prospect of eternal happiness without even risking eternal punishment or enduring suffering that could be encountered in a sustained life.

WOW! I feel ashmed of a people and society that finds not to much wrong with bashing in babies brains. But here goes. Do you appreciate being alive and having life? Who has any right to kill anyone much less a baby? Not only are you taking away the enjoyment and pride of parenthood from the parents but you are denying the freedom and choice of life for that baby. Who has the right to say which baby would want that freedom or not? Do you not reconize this takes away freedom? This not only leads to the loss of freedom for children but also adults as well. Since this leads to going to heaven and ultimately God, God gave life and freedom, therefore you taking that away which was freely given by that God. God will accept that baby with open arms but think about you and those who killed that baby, you think He will acceot your decision with open arms? He gave that life, He gave that freedom for it, You took it, You deny what God gave. Does that make any sense on your part?

I don't think we should bash babies because I don't think they automatically receive eternal paradise. You, on the other hand, do believe this, in which case it seems to make sense to abort all babies so they can have eternal paradise without an ounce of suffering. You asked whether I enjoy being alive. The answer is yes. And because I enjoy life, I advocate for the lives of others. This principle of reciprocality is the basis for morals.

Yet, as much as I enjoy life, I would enjoy eternal happiness even more. So if I knew this heaven awaited me, I would much rather be sent directly to this enormous happiness.