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Reformed Theology

Paradox_7
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10/2/2012 1:02:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Joneszj turned me on to the guys and I stumbled across this video.

It's a bit long, but it keeps your interest, so check it out; let me know what you think.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/2/2012 1:42:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Just wondering; who are these people?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/2/2012 2:26:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 1:02:14 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
Joneszj turned me on to the guys and I stumbled across this video.

It's a bit long, but it keeps your interest, so check it out; let me know what you think.

If this was an accurate representation of what reformed theology is like, it must be an absolute mess.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
GenesisCreation
Posts: 496
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10/2/2012 2:35:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 2:26:09 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/2/2012 1:02:14 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
Joneszj turned me on to the guys and I stumbled across this video.

It's a bit long, but it keeps your interest, so check it out; let me know what you think.

If this was an accurate representation of what reformed theology is like, it must be an absolute mess.

Would you care to discuss the doctrines of grace?
Um....You've got a log in your eye.
"I would be suspicious of an argument without any concessions." - John Dickson
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/2/2012 2:36:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 2:35:06 PM, GenesisCreation wrote:
Would you care to discuss the doctrines of grace?

I don't even know what those are.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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10/2/2012 2:39:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 2:36:39 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/2/2012 2:35:06 PM, GenesisCreation wrote:
Would you care to discuss the doctrines of grace?

I don't even know what those are.

I think you should discuss them then. I am interested but I think me and GC have a similiar view about it. Just speculating we do.
TheAsylum
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/2/2012 2:42:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 2:39:16 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
I think you should discuss them then. I am interested but I think me and GC have a similiar view about it. Just speculating we do.

Fine then.

What are these "doctrines of grace", and can anyone provide a list of them with a meaningful definition/explanation of each one?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
GenesisCreation
Posts: 496
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10/2/2012 3:02:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 2:42:12 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/2/2012 2:39:16 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
I think you should discuss them then. I am interested but I think me and GC have a similiar view about it. Just speculating we do.

Fine then.

What are these "doctrines of grace", and can anyone provide a list of them with a meaningful definition/explanation of each one?

Total Depravity - Mankind is radically God hating, choosing evil over good.
Unconditional election - God chooses whom he saves without any condition on behalf of the sinner.
Limited Attonement - Christ died for his Church.
Irresistable Grace - Those whom are called, come.
Perseverance of the Saints - Those whom are justified cannot fall from Grace.

It's a rough translation. There is a 9 part series on T.U.L.I.P. here: http://www.student-preacher.com...
Um....You've got a log in your eye.
"I would be suspicious of an argument without any concessions." - John Dickson
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/2/2012 3:05:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 3:02:58 PM, GenesisCreation wrote:
Total Depravity - Mankind is radically God hating, choosing evil over good.
Unconditional election - God chooses whom he saves without any condition on behalf of the sinner.
Limited Attonement - Christ died for his Church.
Irresistable Grace - Those whom are called, come.
Perseverance of the Saints - Those whom are justified cannot fall from Grace.

It's a rough translation. There is a 9 part series on T.U.L.I.P. here: http://www.student-preacher.com...

Your site is physically alluring, but even that is not able to compel me to watch a 9 part series if the first part, being in duration roughly 40 minutes, is anything to go by.

That would be like, five hours.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
GenesisCreation
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10/2/2012 3:06:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 3:05:17 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/2/2012 3:02:58 PM, GenesisCreation wrote:
Total Depravity - Mankind is radically God hating, choosing evil over good.
Unconditional election - God chooses whom he saves without any condition on behalf of the sinner.
Limited Attonement - Christ died for his Church.
Irresistable Grace - Those whom are called, come.
Perseverance of the Saints - Those whom are justified cannot fall from Grace.

It's a rough translation. There is a 9 part series on T.U.L.I.P. here: http://www.student-preacher.com...

Your site is physically alluring, but even that is not able to compel me to watch a 9 part series if the first part, being in duration roughly 40 minutes, is anything to go by.

That would be like, five hours.

Yea....scholarship takes time. Imagine what Martin Luther endured in the days of "reading books."
Um....You've got a log in your eye.
"I would be suspicious of an argument without any concessions." - John Dickson
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/2/2012 3:08:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 3:06:43 PM, GenesisCreation wrote:
Yea....scholarship takes time. Imagine what Martin Luther endured in the days of "reading books."

Personally, I have my doubts such days ever existed.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
GenesisCreation
Posts: 496
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10/2/2012 3:12:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 3:06:43 PM, GenesisCreation wrote:
At 10/2/2012 3:05:17 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/2/2012 3:02:58 PM, GenesisCreation wrote:
Total Depravity - Mankind is radically God hating, choosing evil over good.
Unconditional election - God chooses whom he saves without any condition on behalf of the sinner.
Limited Attonement - Christ died for his Church.
Irresistable Grace - Those whom are called, come.
Perseverance of the Saints - Those whom are justified cannot fall from Grace.

It's a rough translation. There is a 9 part series on T.U.L.I.P. here: http://www.student-preacher.com...

Your site is physically alluring, but even that is not able to compel me to watch a 9 part series if the first part, being in duration roughly 40 minutes, is anything to go by.

That would be like, five hours.

Yea....scholarship takes time. Imagine what Martin Luther endured in the days of "reading books."

It's worth the effort to understand. What if you're faced with sharing the Gospel to a prefessing Calvinist? Don't you want to understand his view on scripture? Because I can promise you, he has studied yours deeply. Many Calvinists are quite informed, and even more arrived at the doctrines of grace through years of batteling against the doctrines. It's not an easy position to arrive at. You practically have to trust in the truth of the scripture and completely empty yourself of your own bias.

You know how long I battled with Limited Atonement? I still ask God why, but at least now I trust His sovreign will on the issue. Like the scripture says:
Does the Clay Jar say to it's make:"Why did you make me thus?""
Um....You've got a log in your eye.
"I would be suspicious of an argument without any concessions." - John Dickson
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/2/2012 3:12:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Questions:

At 10/2/2012 3:02:58 PM, GenesisCreation wrote:
Total Depravity - Mankind is radically God hating, choosing evil over good.

Always? I assume that's what "total" means, but I might as well ask it if I'm going to be asking other questions as well.

Unconditional election - God chooses whom he saves without any condition on behalf of the sinner.

So why doesn't God choose to save everyone if he wills that all men be saved?

Limited Attonement - Christ died for his Church.

What is his Church?

Irresistable Grace - Those whom are called, come.

Hmm... Not sure if I agree with that but I can't find any obvious question to ask about it.

Perseverance of the Saints - Those whom are justified cannot fall from Grace.

What is being "justified" entail?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
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10/2/2012 3:12:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 1:02:14 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
Joneszj turned me on to the guys and I stumbled across this video.

It's a bit long, but it keeps your interest, so check it out; let me know what you think.




Haha, Shai Linne is amazing! Stephen the Levite too! Unfortunately I wanted to scream at my screen because Hazakim was describing in words what is known as prevenient grace but it seems no one there was aware of it and thus glossed over it.
GenesisCreation
Posts: 496
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10/2/2012 3:14:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 3:08:53 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/2/2012 3:06:43 PM, GenesisCreation wrote:
Yea....scholarship takes time. Imagine what Martin Luther endured in the days of "reading books."

Personally, I have my doubts such days ever existed.

Rofl....awesome...and here I thought you folks had no humor.
Um....You've got a log in your eye.
"I would be suspicious of an argument without any concessions." - John Dickson
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/2/2012 3:14:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 3:12:15 PM, GenesisCreation wrote:
It's worth the effort to understand. What if you're faced with sharing the Gospel to a prefessing Calvinist? Don't you want to understand his view on scripture? Because I can promise you, he has studied yours deeply. Many Calvinists are quite informed, and even more arrived at the doctrines of grace through years of batteling against the doctrines. It's not an easy position to arrive at. You practically have to trust in the truth of the scripture and completely empty yourself of your own bias.

Yeah, but I don't expect to have five hours completely free any time soon.

I have severe doubts that anyone is able to empty themselves of their own bias.

You know how long I battled with Limited Atonement? I still ask God why, but at least now I trust His sovreign will on the issue. Like the scripture says:
Does the Clay Jar say to it's make:"Why did you make me thus?""

"No, because clay jars can't talk" - Anti-joke Chicken
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
GenesisCreation
Posts: 496
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10/2/2012 3:15:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 3:12:21 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Questions:

At 10/2/2012 3:02:58 PM, GenesisCreation wrote:
Total Depravity - Mankind is radically God hating, choosing evil over good.

Always? I assume that's what "total" means, but I might as well ask it if I'm going to be asking other questions as well.

Unconditional election - God chooses whom he saves without any condition on behalf of the sinner.

So why doesn't God choose to save everyone if he wills that all men be saved?

Limited Attonement - Christ died for his Church.

What is his Church?

Irresistable Grace - Those whom are called, come.

Hmm... Not sure if I agree with that but I can't find any obvious question to ask about it.

Perseverance of the Saints - Those whom are justified cannot fall from Grace.

What is being "justified" entail?

I need to get home. I'll post later to answer, but Google will do it justice if you're impatient.
Um....You've got a log in your eye.
"I would be suspicious of an argument without any concessions." - John Dickson
imabench
Posts: 21,220
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10/2/2012 3:39:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 3:08:53 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/2/2012 3:06:43 PM, GenesisCreation wrote:
Yea....scholarship takes time. Imagine what Martin Luther endured in the days of "reading books."

Personally, I have my doubts such days ever existed.

Elaborate!
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

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AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/2/2012 3:41:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 3:39:01 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/2/2012 3:08:53 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/2/2012 3:06:43 PM, GenesisCreation wrote:
Yea....scholarship takes time. Imagine what Martin Luther endured in the days of "reading books."

Personally, I have my doubts such days ever existed.

Elaborate!

Not only is it a completely unwarranted speculation that people ever read books, but there is simply has no historical evidence.

Books have always simply been for show, no one has ever read a book for knowledge and no one will ever read a book for knowledge.

I challenge you to prove that there were ever days in which people "read books". Why would you read a book when Google can read it for you?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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10/2/2012 4:04:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 3:41:12 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/2/2012 3:39:01 PM, imabench wrote:

Elaborate!

Not only is it a completely unwarranted speculation that people ever read books, but there is simply has no historical evidence.

Books have always simply been for show, no one has ever read a book for knowledge and no one will ever read a book for knowledge.

I challenge you to prove that there were ever days in which people "read books". Why would you read a book when Google can read it for you?

Please tell me you kidding! Please say somewhere that this is a joke.
TheAsylum
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/2/2012 4:05:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 4:04:40 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 10/2/2012 3:41:12 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/2/2012 3:39:01 PM, imabench wrote:

Elaborate!

Not only is it a completely unwarranted speculation that people ever read books, but there is simply has no historical evidence.

Books have always simply been for show, no one has ever read a book for knowledge and no one will ever read a book for knowledge.

I challenge you to prove that there were ever days in which people "read books". Why would you read a book when Google can read it for you?

Please tell me you kidding! Please say somewhere that this is a joke.

lol

At least GenesisCreation got it. People seem to have difficulty telling when I'm being serious.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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10/2/2012 4:07:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 4:05:54 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/2/2012 4:04:40 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 10/2/2012 3:41:12 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/2/2012 3:39:01 PM, imabench wrote:

Elaborate!

Not only is it a completely unwarranted speculation that people ever read books, but there is simply has no historical evidence.

Books have always simply been for show, no one has ever read a book for knowledge and no one will ever read a book for knowledge.

I challenge you to prove that there were ever days in which people "read books". Why would you read a book when Google can read it for you?

Please tell me you kidding! Please say somewhere that this is a joke.

lol

At least GenesisCreation got it. People seem to have difficulty telling when I'm being serious.

I thought you was but sometimes it is hard to tell around here, can you blame someone?
TheAsylum
imabench
Posts: 21,220
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10/2/2012 4:08:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 4:05:54 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/2/2012 4:04:40 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 10/2/2012 3:41:12 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/2/2012 3:39:01 PM, imabench wrote:

Elaborate!

Not only is it a completely unwarranted speculation that people ever read books, but there is simply has no historical evidence.

Books have always simply been for show, no one has ever read a book for knowledge and no one will ever read a book for knowledge.

I challenge you to prove that there were ever days in which people "read books". Why would you read a book when Google can read it for you?

Please tell me you kidding! Please say somewhere that this is a joke.

lol

At least GenesisCreation got it. People seem to have difficulty telling when I'm being serious.

AMTY, im always on the lookout for material for the weekly stupid, and you have no idea how close you came to ending up on it... Thats why I asked for you to elaborate.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/2/2012 4:12:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Brilliant.

I guess I'll have to watch what I say from now on.

Who the hell could honestly believe that I think no one ever read books? Do I seriously come across as that stupid to you?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
imabench
Posts: 21,220
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10/2/2012 4:15:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 4:12:40 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Brilliant.

I guess I'll have to watch what I say from now on.

Who the hell could honestly believe that I think no one ever read books? Do I seriously come across as that stupid to you?

No, but ive found some spectacular stupidity in the religious forums... I found someone who thinks evolution is a religion, so literally anything said in here can be considered the valid opinion of someone. :P
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/2/2012 4:15:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 4:15:05 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/2/2012 4:12:40 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Brilliant.

I guess I'll have to watch what I say from now on.

Who the hell could honestly believe that I think no one ever read books? Do I seriously come across as that stupid to you?

No, but ive found some spectacular stupidity in the religious forums... I found someone who thinks evolution is a religion, so literally anything said in here can be considered the valid opinion of someone. :P

I can write in coherent English. That should be a pretty big point in my favor.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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10/2/2012 5:17:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 4:08:02 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/2/2012 4:05:54 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/2/2012 4:04:40 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 10/2/2012 3:41:12 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/2/2012 3:39:01 PM, imabench wrote:

Elaborate!

Not only is it a completely unwarranted speculation that people ever read books, but there is simply has no historical evidence.

Books have always simply been for show, no one has ever read a book for knowledge and no one will ever read a book for knowledge.

I challenge you to prove that there were ever days in which people "read books". Why would you read a book when Google can read it for you?

Please tell me you kidding! Please say somewhere that this is a joke.

lol

At least GenesisCreation got it. People seem to have difficulty telling when I'm being serious.

AMTY, im always on the lookout for material for the weekly stupid, and you have no idea how close you came to ending up on it... Thats why I asked for you to elaborate.

Check for posts by Composer.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
GenesisCreation
Posts: 496
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10/2/2012 5:59:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 4:15:05 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/2/2012 4:12:40 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Brilliant.

I guess I'll have to watch what I say from now on.

Who the hell could honestly believe that I think no one ever read books? Do I seriously come across as that stupid to you?

No, but ive found some spectacular stupidity in the religious forums... I found someone who thinks evolution is a religion, so literally anything said in here can be considered the valid opinion of someone. :P

Now Mr. Bench...may I call you Ima? Evolution may not be an intended religion, but the reasoning behind the statement is not entirely without cause.

Both systems have advocates that seek to indoctrinate. True, evolution on it's own does not, but zealots for the cause do. You cannot deny an active pro-evolution campaign that seeks to eradicate Christianity (almost exclusively).

Is it therefor suprising when we call an evolutionist with the zeal of a religious fanatic....a religious person?

Obviously, the term is designed to point out fanaticism, not faith, ....but it has it's place.
Um....You've got a log in your eye.
"I would be suspicious of an argument without any concessions." - John Dickson
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/3/2012 1:39:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2012 3:12:21 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Questions:

At 10/2/2012 3:02:58 PM, GenesisCreation wrote:
Total Depravity - Mankind is radically God hating, choosing evil over good.

Always? I assume that's what "total" means, but I might as well ask it if I'm going to be asking other questions as well.

Unconditional election - God chooses whom he saves without any condition on behalf of the sinner.

So why doesn't God choose to save everyone if he wills that all men be saved?

Limited Attonement - Christ died for his Church.

What is his Church?

Irresistable Grace - Those whom are called, come.

Hmm... Not sure if I agree with that but I can't find any obvious question to ask about it.

Perseverance of the Saints - Those whom are justified cannot fall from Grace.

What is being "justified" entail?

Just in case this got lost while imabench was trying to put me on the weekly stupid.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13