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The paradox of Christianity

ATHOS
Posts: 123
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10/8/2012 3:14:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
According to Christianity, Satan is the enemy of god, the fallen angel, the Rebel that caused man to sin and messed up god"s creation. The belief is that Satan, in the form of a talking snake tricked Eve in the Garden of Eden having been cast out of heaven for insubordination (even though this is not actually what the Genesis account says).

So, instead of simply destroying the usurper that the omnipotent god already knew in advance would screw everything up, he simply "cast him down to earth" and left him hanging around so he could mess up the perfect world that he created. What"s more, having tricked Adam and Eve, god doesn"t punish Satan directly at all, instead, he curses his "beloved creation" and then curses all snakes which, according to the bible, used to have legs and now eat dust. However, the fundamental issue remains: why did god let his arch rival off the hook? Twice?

If Satan is the root of all the world ills, and god is omnipotent, then that makes the god of the bible entirely responsible for the consequences as he is the only being that could"ve completely stopped him in his tracks. If a serial killer was rampaging your town, and the police knew who he was, where he lived and how to capture him but instead chose to do nothing, then not only would the police be grossly negligent, they"d inadvertently be responsible for any further killings. It could even be argued that they were somehow colluding with the killer. The same applies to bible god with regard to Satan.

Beyond that, it has been shown that the word "Satan" actually means "accuser" and was used in the original Hebrew texts to refer to anybody who opposed another, making the personification of Satan as a being something that came about via a mistranslation (but try telling that to your average fundamentalist!). Nonetheless, Satan is just as important as god within Christianity; a necessary evil, if you will. Without Satan and without hell, the Christian has nothing to fear and no reason to believe the unbelievable. He is the archetypal Shadow on which all the undesirable aspects of the god construct (and for that matter, humanity itself) can be placed. He is needed in order for the religion to work, and for its followers to be controlled.
What can be expected from insane premises except an insane conclusion? The way to undo an insane conclusion is to consider the sanity of the premises on which it rests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How long will contradiction stand when its impossible nature is clearly revealed?
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/8/2012 4:04:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 3:14:28 AM, ATHOS wrote:
According to Christianity, Satan is the enemy of god, the fallen angel, the Rebel that caused man to sin and messed up god"s creation. The belief is that Satan, in the form of a talking snake tricked Eve in the Garden of Eden having been cast out of heaven for insubordination (even though this is not actually what the Genesis account says).



So, instead of simply destroying the usurper that the omnipotent god already knew in advance would screw everything up, he simply "cast him down to earth" and left him hanging around so he could mess up the perfect world that he created. What"s more, having tricked Adam and Eve, god doesn"t punish Satan directly at all, instead, he curses his "beloved creation" and then curses all snakes which, according to the bible, used to have legs and now eat dust. However, the fundamental issue remains: why did god let his arch rival off the hook? Twice?



If Satan is the root of all the world ills, and god is omnipotent, then that makes the god of the bible entirely responsible for the consequences as he is the only being that could"ve completely stopped him in his tracks. If a serial killer was rampaging your town, and the police knew who he was, where he lived and how to capture him but instead chose to do nothing, then not only would the police be grossly negligent, they"d inadvertently be responsible for any further killings. It could even be argued that they were somehow colluding with the killer. The same applies to bible god with regard to Satan.





Beyond that, it has been shown that the word "Satan" actually means "accuser" and was used in the original Hebrew texts to refer to anybody who opposed another, making the personification of Satan as a being something that came about via a mistranslation (but try telling that to your average fundamentalist!). Nonetheless, Satan is just as important as god within Christianity; a necessary evil, if you will. Without Satan and without hell, the Christian has nothing to fear and no reason to believe the unbelievable. He is the archetypal Shadow on which all the undesirable aspects of the god construct (and for that matter, humanity itself) can be placed. He is needed in order for the religion to work, and for its followers to be controlled.


Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Satan (Hebrew) actually means AN ADVERSARY/OPPOSER/ENEMY, Male or Female or Neuter Gender, Good OR Bad!

I have two Story book bibles that make NO mention of the Term Satan and those versions that do show that the greatest Creator/Satan is Story book god & the greatest ' above all else ' adversary is NOT this alleged naughty Satan Supernatural being, but rather what outclasses everything is the human condition/mind/heart! (cf. Jer. 17:9) ASV Story book
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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10/8/2012 5:13:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 3:14:28 AM, ATHOS wrote:
According to Christianity, Satan is the enemy of god, the fallen angel, the Rebel that caused man to sin and messed up god"s creation. The belief is that Satan, in the form of a talking snake tricked Eve in the Garden of Eden having been cast out of heaven for insubordination (even though this is not actually what the Genesis account says).



So, instead of simply destroying the usurper that the omnipotent god already knew in advance would screw everything up, he simply "cast him down to earth" and left him hanging around so he could mess up the perfect world that he created. What"s more, having tricked Adam and Eve, god doesn"t punish Satan directly at all, instead, he curses his "beloved creation" and then curses all snakes which, according to the bible, used to have legs and now eat dust. However, the fundamental issue remains: why did god let his arch rival off the hook? Twice?



If Satan is the root of all the world ills, and god is omnipotent, then that makes the god of the bible entirely responsible for the consequences as he is the only being that could"ve completely stopped him in his tracks. If a serial killer was rampaging your town, and the police knew who he was, where he lived and how to capture him but instead chose to do nothing, then not only would the police be grossly negligent, they"d inadvertently be responsible for any further killings. It could even be argued that they were somehow colluding with the killer. The same applies to bible god with regard to Satan.





Beyond that, it has been shown that the word "Satan" actually means "accuser" and was used in the original Hebrew texts to refer to anybody who opposed another, making the personification of Satan as a being something that came about via a mistranslation (but try telling that to your average fundamentalist!). Nonetheless, Satan is just as important as god within Christianity; a necessary evil, if you will. Without Satan and without hell, the Christian has nothing to fear and no reason to believe the unbelievable. He is the archetypal Shadow on which all the undesirable aspects of the god construct (and for that matter, humanity itself) can be placed. He is needed in order for the religion to work, and for its followers to be controlled.



According to your assertion that God is omnipotent, the following are therefore true:
>God is perfect.
>God foresaw all events that transpired after the creation before they happened.

So to allow Genesis to be correct, when God made man in his image, man was given the ability to make decisions. The ability to make only the correct decision negates free-will. So with the existence of a potent evil at large, God's creation was made complete. Satan's existence is necessary for bad decisions to be able to be made.
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Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/8/2012 7:41:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 7:24:23 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
In the Christian viewpoint, Satan and demons do not exist, rather they simply refer to temptations and inner struggles.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: If you ask me of course, I submit that this whole 'demon' thing is extraordinarily silly. There's a valid reason for that. Let's assume for a second that a demon possesses a so called xtian. That person - by being possessed - is not responsible for their actions and, without the demon, being a self acclaimed lover of Story book jebus, is undoubtedly protected by jebus.

Hence possessing them is a pointless endeavour. If, on the other hand, the possessed individual is a hell-bound atheist or pagan, it's pointless possessing them, you might as well just let them die all by themselves. In either instance, these demons are simply wasting immaterial energy.

In fact, I would submit that the very last people we would look at and ever consider demon possessed are the kind of idiots that run in front of trucks and cars. Instead, given their obvious knowledge of the inner workings of immortal existence and universe coupled with their apparent desire to push everyone towards evil, they'd actually possess presidents and global celebrities. The pope would be a prime example as would Santa Claus and David Beckham.

In the case of Santa, (an anagram of satan), what better way to get people on your side than to hand them free gifts consisting of everything they've ever wanted? (My thanks to SnakeyStew)
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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10/8/2012 9:06:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 7:24:23 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
In the Christian viewpoint, Satan and demons do not exist, rather they simply refer to temptations and inner struggles.

I would respectfully disagree. I think, according to the bible, Satan and demons certainly do exist
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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10/8/2012 9:07:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 3:14:28 AM, ATHOS wrote:
Without Satan and without hell, the Christian has nothing to fear and no reason to believe the unbelievable. He is the archetypal Shadow on which all the undesirable aspects of the god construct (and for that matter, humanity itself) can be placed. He is needed in order for the religion to work, and for its followers to be controlled.

Totally false. I am not a Christian out of fear of hell. I'm a Christian out of love for God.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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10/8/2012 9:07:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 9:07:07 PM, stubs wrote:
At 10/8/2012 3:14:28 AM, ATHOS wrote:
Without Satan and without hell, the Christian has nothing to fear and no reason to believe the unbelievable. He is the archetypal Shadow on which all the undesirable aspects of the god construct (and for that matter, humanity itself) can be placed. He is needed in order for the religion to work, and for its followers to be controlled.

Totally false. I am not a Christian out of fear of hell. I'm a Christian out of love for God.

Fixed
DeFool
Posts: 626
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10/8/2012 9:09:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 9:07:07 PM, stubs wrote:
At 10/8/2012 3:14:28 AM, ATHOS wrote:
Without Satan and without hell, the Christian has nothing to fear and no reason to believe the unbelievable. He is the archetypal Shadow on which all the undesirable aspects of the god construct (and for that matter, humanity itself) can be placed. He is needed in order for the religion to work, and for its followers to be controlled.

Totally false. I am not a Christian out of fear of hell. I'm a Christian out of love for God.

I also am not a Christian out of fear of the devil. Just as I am not an Odinist out of fear of the frost giants.
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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10/8/2012 10:22:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 9:06:05 PM, stubs wrote:
At 10/8/2012 7:24:23 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
In the Christian viewpoint, Satan and demons do not exist, rather they simply refer to temptations and inner struggles.

I would respectfully disagree. I think, according to the bible, Satan and demons certainly do exist

Why must they physically exist? Why can't a demon simply represent an inner struggle? Jesus struggled in the desert to resist temptation. Why are demons necessary?
Double_Helix46
Posts: 466
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10/8/2012 10:40:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 7:24:23 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
In the Christian viewpoint, Satan and demons do not exist, rather they simply refer to temptations and inner struggles.

Please provide Biblical evidence supporting this.
Double_Helix46
Posts: 466
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10/8/2012 10:43:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 10:22:56 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 10/8/2012 9:06:05 PM, stubs wrote:
At 10/8/2012 7:24:23 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
In the Christian viewpoint, Satan and demons do not exist, rather they simply refer to temptations and inner struggles.

I would respectfully disagree. I think, according to the bible, Satan and demons certainly do exist

Why must they physically exist? Why can't a demon simply represent an inner struggle? Jesus struggled in the desert to resist temptation. Why are demons necessary?

Because it does not matter what is comfortable for you or anyone else but what God's word says. God's word quite clearly describes demons and satan. It describes them as specific beings.
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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10/8/2012 10:47:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 10:40:08 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
At 10/8/2012 7:24:23 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
In the Christian viewpoint, Satan and demons do not exist, rather they simply refer to temptations and inner struggles.

Please provide Biblical evidence supporting this.

I have to sleep now, tommorow I will. It's a long discussion.
Double_Helix46
Posts: 466
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10/8/2012 10:51:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 10:47:00 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 10/8/2012 10:40:08 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
At 10/8/2012 7:24:23 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
In the Christian viewpoint, Satan and demons do not exist, rather they simply refer to temptations and inner struggles.

Please provide Biblical evidence supporting this.

I have to sleep now, tommorow I will. It's a long discussion.

Ok, Thanks! It is a long discussion.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/11/2012 2:45:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 10:43:02 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
At 10/8/2012 10:22:56 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 10/8/2012 9:06:05 PM, stubs wrote:
At 10/8/2012 7:24:23 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
In the Christian viewpoint, Satan and demons do not exist, rather they simply refer to temptations and inner struggles.

I would respectfully disagree. I think, according to the bible, Satan and demons certainly do exist

Why must they physically exist? Why can't a demon simply represent an inner struggle? Jesus struggled in the desert to resist temptation. Why are demons necessary?

Because it does not matter what is comfortable for you or anyone else but what God's word says. God's word quite clearly describes demons and satan. It describes them as specific beings.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: I have two Story book bibles that make NO mention of the term Satan in their text (YLT & E. Diaglott) so to them a Supernatural Satan doesn't exist!

Regarding Demons - In olden days medical terms and the causes of diseases were unknown. Most illness, especially insanity, was attributed to evil spirits or demons . . . . (Source: Dr. George M. Lamsa New Testament Light (Philadelphia: A. J.Holman, 1945), p. 58.)
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/11/2012 2:48:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 10:43:02 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
At 10/8/2012 10:22:56 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 10/8/2012 9:06:05 PM, stubs wrote:
At 10/8/2012 7:24:23 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
In the Christian viewpoint, Satan and demons do not exist, rather they simply refer to temptations and inner struggles.

I would respectfully disagree. I think, according to the bible, Satan and demons certainly do exist

Why must they physically exist? Why can't a demon simply represent an inner struggle? Jesus struggled in the desert to resist temptation. Why are demons necessary?

Because it does not matter what is comfortable for you or anyone else but what God's word says. God's word quite clearly describes demons and satan. It describes them as specific beings.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: The legitimate evidence ANY acclaimed ' holy-text ' is the words of ANY Supernatural god(s) given to some men remains a constant zero!
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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10/16/2012 4:35:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 3:14:28 AM, ATHOS wrote:
According to Christianity, Satan is the enemy of god, the fallen angel, the Rebel that caused man to sin and messed up god"s creation. The belief is that Satan, in the form of a talking snake tricked Eve in the Garden of Eden having been cast out of heaven for insubordination (even though this is not actually what the Genesis account says).



So, instead of simply destroying the usurper that the omnipotent god already knew in advance would screw everything up, he simply "cast him down to earth" and left him hanging around so he could mess up the perfect world that he created. What"s more, having tricked Adam and Eve, god doesn"t punish Satan directly at all, instead, he curses his "beloved creation" and then curses all snakes which, according to the bible, used to have legs and now eat dust. However, the fundamental issue remains: why did god let his arch rival off the hook? Twice?



If Satan is the root of all the world ills, and god is omnipotent, then that makes the god of the bible entirely responsible for the consequences as he is the only being that could"ve completely stopped him in his tracks. If a serial killer was rampaging your town, and the police knew who he was, where he lived and how to capture him but instead chose to do nothing, then not only would the police be grossly negligent, they"d inadvertently be responsible for any further killings. It could even be argued that they were somehow colluding with the killer. The same applies to bible god with regard to Satan.





Beyond that, it has been shown that the word "Satan" actually means "accuser" and was used in the original Hebrew texts to refer to anybody who opposed another, making the personification of Satan as a being something that came about via a mistranslation (but try telling that to your average fundamentalist!). Nonetheless, Satan is just as important as god within Christianity; a necessary evil, if you will. Without Satan and without hell, the Christian has nothing to fear and no reason to believe the unbelievable. He is the archetypal Shadow on which all the undesirable aspects of the god construct (and for that matter, humanity itself) can be placed. He is needed in order for the religion to work, and for its followers to be controlled.








BUT.. If God is that kind of God, why not keep this information from us?
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)