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Can one lose salvation?

Double_Helix46
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10/8/2012 7:56:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is a big question on here lately. I say once one has salvation, it can not be lost.
What are other's view on this subject? Please post how you feel and why.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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10/8/2012 8:26:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 8:24:07 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
It probably depends on which God. Some Gods may take it back and other Gods give it out for keeps.

http://www.sectalk.com...
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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10/8/2012 8:33:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 7:56:37 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
This is a big question on here lately. I say once one has salvation, it can not be lost.
What are other's view on this subject? Please post how you feel and why.:

Well, I guess you don't know the bible very well then.

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." -- Hebrews 6:4-6
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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10/8/2012 8:49:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 8:33:33 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 10/8/2012 7:56:37 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
This is a big question on here lately. I say once one has salvation, it can not be lost.
What are other's view on this subject? Please post how you feel and why.:

Well, I guess you don't know the bible very well then.

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." -- Hebrews 6:4-6


Lmao.. Take a gander at the "Reformed Theology" thread..

That passage in particular was (and currently still is) discussed, a lot.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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10/8/2012 8:56:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 7:56:37 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
This is a big question on here lately. I say once one has salvation, it can not be lost.
What are other's view on this subject? Please post how you feel and why.

I don't think it is lost, just given up on. St. Paul described it as a race, and to "win" you have to finish the race. So yes, I do believe someone can be saved and then still go to Hell if they stop running.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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10/8/2012 9:01:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't think you can.

"And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." - Philippians 1:6

However, as the dean of ministry at my school would say, "I still pray continually that God will just let me in. My doctrine says that you cannot lose salvation, but I don't think my doctrine matters too much when it comes down to it."
DeFool
Posts: 626
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10/8/2012 9:06:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 7:56:37 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
This is a big question on here lately. I say once one has salvation, it can not be lost.
What are other's view on this subject? Please post how you feel and why.

Yes. Yes, we must be able to lose salvation.

I myself was once a devout evangelical, born again and washed clean in the blood.

If I have not lost this glory, then I shall rape the bastard god when I meet him in heaven.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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10/8/2012 9:17:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 9:01:29 PM, stubs wrote:
I don't think you can.

"And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." - Philippians 1:6

However, as the dean of ministry at my school would say, "I still pray continually that God will just let me in. My doctrine says that you cannot lose salvation, but I don't think my doctrine matters too much when it comes down to it."

Hmmmm, I don't pray that God let's me in. I think it is because of my doctrine. I believe God wants me in, and He will help me finish the race if I will only trust and rely on Him.

I pray for being better now. Typically when I pray I go over the days events. While says Hal Mary I go over every encounter I had with each person I met or talked to. Everything from my boss to the person I said hello to while picking out some apples.

I look at what I said or didn't say and see if I could have done better, not said something ect. I then ask Jesus to open my eyes and ears at times and places where an encouraging word may be needed and when hurtful words are not.

Here is an example from today. I was in the grocery store earlier and two guys came over to where I was at in the produce section. They looked really really weird in my opinion. Huge things in one of their ears, britches that should be worn by a 12 year old girl, not a over weight guy in his 20s. I think they were wearing makeup. To me, I would rather die then be caught wearing stuff like that. I couldn't imagine embarrassing my family by looking like that.

The old me wanted to smack both of them around and try to knock some sense into them. But I didn't, but I could have been less cold and had a little compassion and mercy. There may be something horrible in their lives that causes them to dress and act like that.

Moments like that is what I ask Jesus to help me with. I ask Him to give me His eyes so I can see people as He sees them.

I don't worry about my eternal security, I know He wants all men to come to Him. All we have to do is Love Him with all our Heart and love our neighbors as ourselves. If we can do those to things we don't need a doctrine based off a few verses to assure us of anything. Knock and He will answer, ask and you shall receive. Listen and you will hear.

My two cents.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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10/8/2012 10:09:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Waterboarding is a form of torture in which water is poured over the face of an immobilized captive, thus causing the individual to experience the sensation of drowning. Waterboarding can cause extreme pain, dry drowning, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation, other physical injuries including broken bones due to struggling against restraints, lasting psychological damage, and death.
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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10/8/2012 10:21:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 8:33:33 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 10/8/2012 7:56:37 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
This is a big question on here lately. I say once one has salvation, it can not be lost.
What are other's view on this subject? Please post how you feel and why.:

Well, I guess you don't know the bible very well then.

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." -- Hebrews 6:4-6

1 Corinthians 3:10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person"s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved"even though only as one escaping through the flames.
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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10/8/2012 10:33:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Hebrews 6:9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case"the things that have to do with salvation. 10 God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. 11 We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, so that what you hope for may be fully realized. 12 We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised.
Double_Helix46
Posts: 466
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10/8/2012 10:36:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 8:33:33 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 10/8/2012 7:56:37 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
This is a big question on here lately. I say once one has salvation, it can not be lost.
What are other's view on this subject? Please post how you feel and why.:

Well, I guess you don't know the bible very well then.

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." -- Hebrews 6:4-6:

You throw out a verse without any description of interpretation. What does that mean? Does it mean it means whatever you want it too? No! If this verse means the loss of salvation, tell us how.
Double_Helix46
Posts: 466
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10/8/2012 11:21:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Of my opinion comes from the many verses in the Bible and what they all represent.

We read in them:
2 Samuel 22:36 "You have also given me the shield of your salvation; Your gentleness has made me great." If we have a shield of salvation how can any pentitrate it?

2 Samuel 22:47 "Yahweh lives; Blessed be my rock; Exalted be God, the rock of my salvation," Our salvation is upon a rock.

Matthew 10:22 "You will be hated by all men for my name's sake, but he who endures to the end will be saved." Thosw who have salvation will endure to the end.

Luke 8:12 "Those along the road are those who hear, then the devil comes, and takes away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved."
True believers are granted salvation and stand steady.

Acts 15:11 "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they are." Belief and faith bring forth salvation.

John 10:27-29 "27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give to them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any manpluck them out of my hand.29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of my Father's hand." The elect for salvation can not be snatched out.

John 10:12 "He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who doesn't own the sheep, sees the wolf coming, leaves the sheep, and flees. The wolf snatches the sheep, and scatters them." False teachers lead us astray into the wolves. But, is we have the true shepard we shall not go astray.

Romans 3:24 "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" We have been removed from the wrath of God.

Ephesians 1:6 "To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;" Jesus Christ has redeemed us.

Titus 3:4 "But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." By the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, we have received eternal life.

John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." When we trusted Christ, the Holy Spirit began an eternal indwelling ministry in us.

For a believer to lose his salvation would demand a reversal and an undoing of all the preceding works of the Father, Son, and Spirit. The key issue in the discussion of the believer's security concerns the issue of who does the saving. If man is responsible for securing his salvation, then he can be lost; if God secures the person's salvation, then the person is forever secure. - Paul Enns
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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10/8/2012 11:49:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You forgot II Pet 2: 20, 21, Helix. It is one of the strongest verses in favor of the impossibility of apostasy.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Double_Helix46
Posts: 466
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10/8/2012 11:53:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 11:49:01 PM, annanicole wrote:
You forgot II Pet 2: 20, 21, Helix. It is one of the strongest verses in favor of the impossibility of apostasy.

Thanks, did not come accross it, I forgot it.
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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10/9/2012 4:33:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 7:56:37 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
This is a big question on here lately. I say once one has salvation, it can not be lost.
What are other's view on this subject? Please post how you feel and why.

So if you are an theist, then go atheist, are you saved?
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AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/9/2012 8:41:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 4:33:27 AM, Smithereens wrote:
So if you are an theist, then go atheist, are you saved?

The classic response: You were never saved to begin with.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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10/9/2012 9:38:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 11:53:51 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
At 10/8/2012 11:49:01 PM, annanicole wrote:
You forgot II Pet 2: 20, 21, Helix. It is one of the strongest verses in favor of the impossibility of apostasy.

Thanks, did not come accross it, I forgot it.

Well, I'll cite it for you:

Preliminaries:

1. "there shall be false teachers among you" (v. 1)
2. "who privily shall bring in damnable heresies .. denying the Lord that bought them" (v. 2)
3. "And many shall follow their pernicious ways" (v. 2)
4. "They promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption.
5. "Of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

" For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."

Same line of thought as Heb 6: 4-6. Same as Gal 5: 1-4.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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10/9/2012 10:59:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 8:33:33 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 10/8/2012 7:56:37 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
This is a big question on here lately. I say once one has salvation, it can not be lost.
What are other's view on this subject? Please post how you feel and why.:

Well, I guess you don't know the bible very well then.

You may not know the bible very well, if you think it saying something in one place means it doesn't say the opposite thing in another.
Double_Helix46
Posts: 466
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10/9/2012 11:07:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 4:33:27 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 10/8/2012 7:56:37 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
This is a big question on here lately. I say once one has salvation, it can not be lost.
What are other's view on this subject? Please post how you feel and why.

So if you are an theist, then go atheist, are you saved?

Being a thiest does not mean you are saved. What kinda of thiest? You can be any kind of thiest.
Double_Helix46
Posts: 466
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10/9/2012 11:13:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 9:38:35 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/8/2012 11:53:51 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
At 10/8/2012 11:49:01 PM, annanicole wrote:
You forgot II Pet 2: 20, 21, Helix. It is one of the strongest verses in favor of the impossibility of apostasy.

Thanks, did not come accross it, I forgot it.

Well, I'll cite it for you:

Preliminaries:

1. "there shall be false teachers among you" (v. 1)
2. "who privily shall bring in damnable heresies .. denying the Lord that bought them" (v. 2)
3. "And many shall follow their pernicious ways" (v. 2)
4. "They promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption.
5. "Of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.:

" For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."

Same line of thought as Heb 6: 4-6. Same as Gal 5: 1-4.:
Really, you should explain how. Explain the top and bottom and how this explains the saved losing their salvation.
inferno
Posts: 10,648
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10/9/2012 11:14:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/8/2012 7:56:37 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
This is a big question on here lately. I say once one has salvation, it can not be lost.
What are other's view on this subject? Please post how you feel and why.

If you are an unrepented backslider, then the answer is yes.
You can lose your salvation for good when you walk away from God.
Double_Helix46
Posts: 466
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10/9/2012 11:41:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 11:14:32 AM, inferno wrote:
At 10/8/2012 7:56:37 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
This is a big question on here lately. I say once one has salvation, it can not be lost.
What are other's view on this subject? Please post how you feel and why.

If you are an unrepented backslider, then the answer is yes.
You can lose your salvation for good when you walk away from God.

Show how. Show how one can lose their salvation but scripture. By your terms, you can just as easily say that those who turn away, were never his flock to begin with, the were just posing.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/9/2012 11:43:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 11:41:18 AM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
Show how. Show how one can lose their salvation but scripture. By your terms, you can just as easily say that those who turn away, were never his flock to begin with, the were just posing.

At 10/9/2012 8:41:04 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The classic response: You were never saved to begin with.

I totally called it.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Double_Helix46
Posts: 466
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10/9/2012 12:12:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 11:43:56 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/9/2012 11:41:18 AM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
Show how. Show how one can lose their salvation but scripture. By your terms, you can just as easily say that those who turn away, were never his flock to begin with, the were just posing.

At 10/9/2012 8:41:04 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The classic response: You were never saved to begin with.

I totally called it.

Yet, not one has shown how you lose salvation. I have shown were the saved stand and how we can not be took from the fathers hand. Prove your point.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/9/2012 12:38:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 12:12:04 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
Yet, not one has shown how you lose salvation. I have shown were the saved stand and how we can not be took from the fathers hand. Prove your point.

Well, how do you define salvation?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Double_Helix46
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10/9/2012 12:48:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 12:38:54 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/9/2012 12:12:04 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
Yet, not one has shown how you lose salvation. I have shown were the saved stand and how we can not be took from the fathers hand. Prove your point.

Well, how do you define salvation?

Salvation is never-ending faith, belief and praise unto God of Israel. Salvation is complete humbleness for forgiveness, seeking repentance. Salvation is complete love and fear of the One true God. Salvation is to stand by all the Words of God. Salvation is to do as the Lord Jesus Christ has commanded us. To love and be eager to praise him and be willing to defend what it is you believe.

Salvation is not, lack of belief, lack of faith, to turn your back on God, to not follow scriptures, to not believe scriptures, to value man-made doctrine and practice over God's. It is not to ever deny the Lord your God and His word.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/9/2012 12:49:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 12:48:12 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
Salvation is never-ending faith,

That's your problem right there.

If you define salvation as never-ending faith, then by definition no one can fall away from salvation.

I don't think that's the most intellectually honest definition of salvation I've ever heard.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Double_Helix46
Posts: 466
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10/9/2012 1:20:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 12:49:34 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/9/2012 12:48:12 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
Salvation is never-ending faith,

That's your problem right there.

If you define salvation as never-ending faith, then by definition no one can fall away from salvation.

I don't think that's the most intellectually honest definition of salvation I've ever heard.

You say, "no, that is not it", like you know. Like you are granted the ability to be all knowing. I'm sorry to tell you but those who have no faith is not saved and once one is saved then they always have faith. Their faith may become weak or stronger but it never leaves. Are you suggesting that God is a Indian giver? He gives you free salvation but by works you must keep it? That He gives salvation freely but may decide to take it back? IF only you could see how ridiculous that is. God will always keep his promises. What God freely gives and shed His blood for, He will always give it and never take it back. What He has chosen, He will always keep.