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Study of the Westminster Confession of Faith

joneszj
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10/9/2012 8:40:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Anyone interested? I am thinking we could do one chapter/section a week. Debate.org would be great for getting diverse views on the topics. It would also allow us to take more time on a particular section if needed.

For those who are not familiar with the Westminster Confession of Faith (WCF) it is considered the standard confession for Reformed theology and Doctrine. If some are interested I will copy each section up for discussion as we go along. Thanks!
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/9/2012 8:45:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
What is the Westminster Confession of Faith?

The more posts I see on this forum, the more I realize I know nothing about other Christians.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/9/2012 8:45:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 8:45:08 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
What is the Westminster Confession of Faith?

You kind of answered this, but like who wrote it?

And why is it the basis of anything?

The more posts I see on this forum, the more I realize I know nothing about other Christians.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
joneszj
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10/9/2012 8:53:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 8:45:42 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/9/2012 8:45:08 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
What is the Westminster Confession of Faith?

You kind of answered this, but like who wrote it?

There have been some revisions. The original was in 1646 by the Westminster Abbey
(http://en.wikipedia.org...)
(http://en.wikipedia.org...)

And why is it the basis of anything?

I suppose you could say its 'common ground' for all Reformed doctrine. It is not exclusively for Reformed theology but a theology the significantly deviates from it is usually not Reformed.

The more posts I see on this forum, the more I realize I know nothing about other Christians.

Indeed
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/9/2012 8:53:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 8:45:42 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/9/2012 8:45:08 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
What is the Westminster Confession of Faith?

You kind of answered this, but like who wrote it?

And why is it the basis of anything?

Also, are you bound to it? Like, if you confess it, are you stuck with it even if you start to think it's not right?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/9/2012 8:53:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 8:53:11 AM, joneszj wrote:
At 10/9/2012 8:45:42 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/9/2012 8:45:08 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
What is the Westminster Confession of Faith?

You kind of answered this, but like who wrote it?

There have been some revisions. The original was in 1646 by the Westminster Abbey
(http://en.wikipedia.org...)
(http://en.wikipedia.org...)

And why is it the basis of anything?

I suppose you could say its 'common ground' for all Reformed doctrine. It is not exclusively for Reformed theology but a theology the significantly deviates from it is usually not Reformed.

The more posts I see on this forum, the more I realize I know nothing about other Christians.

Indeed

Thanks.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
joneszj
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10/9/2012 9:00:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 8:53:21 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/9/2012 8:45:42 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/9/2012 8:45:08 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
What is the Westminster Confession of Faith?

You kind of answered this, but like who wrote it?

And why is it the basis of anything?

Also, are you bound to it? Like, if you confess it, are you stuck with it even if you start to think it's not right?

Of course not.
joneszj
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10/9/2012 9:05:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
A copy of the WCF can be found here: http://www.reformed.org...

For example, here are the chapters and topics it addresses:

Table of Contents
Chapter I Of the Holy Scripture
Chapter II Of God, and of the Holy Trinity
Chapter III Of God's Eternal Decree
Chapter IV Of Creation
Chapter V Of Providence
Chapter VI Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and the Punishment thereof
Chapter VII Of God's Covenant with Man
Chapter VIII Of Christ the Mediator
Chapter IX Of Free Will
Chapter X Of Effectual Calling
Chapter XI Of Justification
Chapter XII Of Adoption
Chapter XIII Of Sanctification
Chapter XIV Of Saving Faith
Chapter XV Of Repentance unto Life
Chapter XVI Of Good Works
Chapter XVII Of the Perseverance Of the Saints
Chapter XVIII Of Assurance Of Grace and Salvation
Chapter XIX Of the Law Of God
Chapter XX Of Christian Liberty, and Liberty Of Conscience
Chapter XXI Of Religious Worship, and the Sabbath Day"
Chapter XXII Of Lawful Oaths and Vows
Chapter XXIII Of the Civil Magistrate
Chapter XXIV Of Marriage and Divorce
Chapter XXV Of the Church
Chapter XXVI Of the Communion Of Saints
Chapter XXVII Of the Sacraments
Chapter XXVIII Of Baptism
Chapter XXIX Of the Lord's Supper
Chapter XXX Of Church Censures
Chapter XXXI Of Synods and Councils
Chapter XXXII Of the State Of Men after Death, and Of the Resurrection Of the Dead
Chapter XXXIII Of the Last Judgment
Dogknox
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10/9/2012 11:08:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Presbyterian and Anglican Westminster Confession states, "There is no other head of the church but the Lord Jesus Christ; nor can the pope of Rome in any sense be the head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and that son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ, and all that is called God" (25:6).

Jesus said.. From within, "The Church" will come HERETICS!!
The "De-Formers" Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican came from within the Holy Catholic Church! The Holy Catholic Church did NOT come out of the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches!

Jesus did not start the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches!

Jesus is "ALWAYS WITH the One Church he formed to the very end of the world"!

The Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches must reject the words of Jesus to believe the Pope is anti-Christ! They MUST reject the scriptures to believe the Pope is anti-Christ!

Didache "[T]he whole time of your faith will not profit you unless you are made complete in the last time. For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and sheep shall be turned into wolves . . . and then shall the deceiver of the world appear, pretending to be the Son of God, and [he] shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands" (Didache16:3-4 [A.D. 70]).
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/9/2012 11:11:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Now that Dogknox has called Chapter XV to my attention, I am very suspicious of this entire document.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
joneszj
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10/9/2012 11:32:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 11:08:25 AM, Dogknox wrote:
The Presbyterian and Anglican Westminster Confession states, "There is no other head of the church but the Lord Jesus Christ; nor can the pope of Rome in any sense be the head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and that son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ, and all that is called God" (25:6).

Jesus said.. From within, "The Church" will come HERETICS!!
The "De-Formers" Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican came from within the Holy Catholic Church! The Holy Catholic Church did NOT come out of the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches!

Jesus did not start the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches!

Jesus is "ALWAYS WITH the One Church he formed to the very end of the world"!

The Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches must reject the words of Jesus to believe the Pope is anti-Christ! They MUST reject the scriptures to believe the Pope is anti-Christ!

Didache "[T]he whole time of your faith will not profit you unless you are made complete in the last time. For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and sheep shall be turned into wolves . . . and then shall the deceiver of the world appear, pretending to be the Son of God, and [he] shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands" (Didache16:3-4 [A.D. 70]).

Your jumping ahead Dog
joneszj
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10/9/2012 11:32:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 11:11:58 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Now that Dogknox has called Chapter XV to my attention, I am very suspicious of this entire document.

You should be. But that is the point of the study as well.
Dogknox
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10/9/2012 12:00:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 11:32:32 AM, joneszj wrote:
At 10/9/2012 11:11:58 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Now that Dogknox has called Chapter XV to my attention, I am very suspicious of this entire document.

You should be. But that is the point of the study as well.

joneszj So let me get this straight... you say "AlwaysMoreThanYou should be very suspicious of this entire document"??!!

I point to scriptures.. (I always do point to scriptures) The Westminster Confession is the work of Satan!

False Teachers and Their Destruction is found in this PROPHESY!!
2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them"bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.


The "De-Formers" Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglicans came from within the Holy Catholic Church>> AMONG the Catholic Church they came!!
The Holy Catholic Church did NOT come out of the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches! The PROPHESY is correct...
there will be false teachers among you

The Catholic Church was NOT AMONG the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches the Prophesy can only work in the one direction!! This PROVES beyond all doubt the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches are FALSE TEACHERS!!
Verse #2 (above) PROVES the Holy Catholic Church is "The Way Of Truth"! It PROVES the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches are NOT, they cannot be "the way of truth"! The PROPHESY is the words of God, the PROPHESY can only work in the one direction.. The Catholic Church DID NOT come from AMONG the De-Formers!!

Christians believe the scriptures!
Catholic's are Christians!

The Muslims have a prophesy it goes like this: The Anti-Christ will be born of a man the Anti-Christ will be mother-less!
Thinking about this prophesy, I feel they might be right!!

Catholic's have a Mother.. Mary/Church!
Catholic's have a Father .. God!
Even Jesus had a Mother and Father, Jesus does NOT come from a broken home!

The protestant.. all protestants claim; "God is their father"!
All protestant every protestant.. Including the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglicans are mother-less!!!
I point out.. No father gains the title "FATHER" unless a Mother gives birth! No protestant has a mother.. "Children of God but no Mother.. ????? WORMS and SATAN have no mother.. Protestants have no mother!

I think the Muslims hit the Snake square on the head with their prophesy!!!

Dogknox
joneszj
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10/9/2012 12:17:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 12:00:26 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 10/9/2012 11:32:32 AM, joneszj wrote:
At 10/9/2012 11:11:58 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Now that Dogknox has called Chapter XV to my attention, I am very suspicious of this entire document.

You should be. But that is the point of the study as well.

joneszj So let me get this straight... you say "AlwaysMoreThanYou should be very suspicious of this entire document"??!!

Yes he should. As should you and I. It is not scripture so scrutiny and caution is advised.

I point to scriptures.. (I always do point to scriptures) The Westminster Confession is the work of Satan!

uh huh...

False Teachers and Their Destruction is found in this PROPHESY!!
2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them"bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.


The "De-Formers" Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglicans came from within the Holy Catholic Church>> AMONG the Catholic Church they came!!
The Holy Catholic Church did NOT come out of the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches! The PROPHESY is correct...
there will be false teachers among you

Face ... into ... palm

The Catholic Church was NOT AMONG the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches the Prophesy can only work in the one direction!! This PROVES beyond all doubt the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches are FALSE TEACHERS!!
Verse #2 (above) PROVES the Holy Catholic Church is "The Way Of Truth"! It PROVES the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches are NOT, they cannot be "the way of truth"! The PROPHESY is the words of God, the PROPHESY can only work in the one direction.. The Catholic Church DID NOT come from AMONG the De-Formers!!

Christians believe the scriptures!
Catholic's are Christians!

The Muslims have a prophesy it goes like this: The Anti-Christ will be born of a man the Anti-Christ will be mother-less!
Thinking about this prophesy, I feel they might be right!!

Catholic's have a Mother.. Mary/Church!
Catholic's have a Father .. God!
Even Jesus had a Mother and Father, Jesus does NOT come from a broken home!

The protestant.. all protestants claim; "God is their father"!
All protestant every protestant.. Including the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglicans are mother-less!!!
I point out.. No father gains the title "FATHER" unless a Mother gives birth! No protestant has a mother.. "Children of God but no Mother.. ????? WORMS and SATAN have no mother.. Protestants have no mother!

face ... into ... palm ... again

I think the Muslims hit the Snake square on the head with their prophesy!!!

Dogknox

Your argumentation resembles that of composers. You two should totally go at it!
Double_Helix46
Posts: 466
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10/9/2012 12:22:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 8:40:27 AM, joneszj wrote:
Anyone interested? I am thinking we could do one chapter/section a week. Debate.org would be great for getting diverse views on the topics. It would also allow us to take more time on a particular section if needed.

For those who are not familiar with the Westminster Confession of Faith (WCF) it is considered the standard confession for Reformed theology and Doctrine. If some are interested I will copy each section up for discussion as we go along. Thanks!

I am interested. I will read the sections.
joneszj
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10/9/2012 12:23:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 12:22:13 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
At 10/9/2012 8:40:27 AM, joneszj wrote:
Anyone interested? I am thinking we could do one chapter/section a week. Debate.org would be great for getting diverse views on the topics. It would also allow us to take more time on a particular section if needed.

For those who are not familiar with the Westminster Confession of Faith (WCF) it is considered the standard confession for Reformed theology and Doctrine. If some are interested I will copy each section up for discussion as we go along. Thanks!

I am interested. I will read the sections.

Sweet Dbl, thanks. I will begin it probably tomorrow or tonight. shud be good.
Double_Helix46
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10/9/2012 12:38:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
joneszj So let me get this straight... you say "AlwaysMoreThanYou should be very suspicious of this entire document"??!!

I point to scriptures.. (I always do point to scriptures) The Westminster Confession is the work of Satan!:
Good to know but you have missed showing how you connect the scriptures to what you are claiming. You just posted them and said here take it or leave it without any evidence showing they mean what you say they mean.

False Teachers and Their Destruction is found in this PROPHESY!!
2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them"bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
:
We can say this about the Roman Catholic Church. Who, pray to saints and Mary! Do you pray to Mary? You will remember that Pope John Paul II when he was shot kept crying, "Mary, save me...Mary, save me...Mary, save me." And why call upon the Lord? Luke 11:27 "And it came to pass, as he spoke these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said to him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said(Jesus), Yes rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it." No where does the scriptures say praise Mary nor pray unto her.

The "De-Formers" Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglicans came from within the Holy Catholic Church>> AMONG the Catholic Church they came!!:
You should provide evidence of that.

The Catholic Church was NOT AMONG the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches the Prophesy can only work in the one direction!!:
Indeed, the heresay is from the church who say's they are the sole authority of God. God's church is a spiritual one. We are God's temple, our body. Acts 7:48 "However, the Most High doesn't dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says," 1 Corinthians 3:16 "Don't you know that you are a temple of God, and that God's Spirit lives in you?" 1 Corinthians 6:19 "Or don't you know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have from God? You are not your own,"

Verse #2 (above) PROVES the Holy Catholic Church is "The Way Of Truth"! It PROVES the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches are NOT, they cannot be "the way of truth"! The PROPHESY is the words of God, the PROPHESY can only work in the one direction.. The Catholic Church DID NOT come from AMONG the De-Formers!!

Catholic's have a Mother.. Mary/Church!:
Where does it say you have a spiritual mother?
The protestant.. all protestants claim; "God is their father"!
All protestant every protestant.. Including the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglicans are mother-less!!!:
Where does the scriptures say you have a mother?
I point out.. No father gains the title "FATHER" unless a Mother gives birth! No protestant has a mother.. "Children of God but no Mother.. ????? WORMS and SATAN have no mother.. Protestants have no mother!:
All the angels in heaven are son's of God and calln him father, who are their mothers?

You praise muslims?
Dogknox
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10/9/2012 4:25:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Double_Helix46 You said..
We can say this about the Roman Catholic Church. Who, pray to saints and Mary! Do you pray to Mary? You will remember that Pope John Paul II when he was shot kept crying, "Mary, save me...Mary, save me...Mary, save me." And why call upon the Lord? Luke 11:27 "And it came to pass, as he spoke these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said to him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said(Jesus), Yes rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it." No where does the scriptures say praise Mary nor pray unto her.
I reply: The scriptures say you are wrong!!

1) Jesus is ALWAYS with the Church he formed.. The ONLY CHURCH Jesus formed was not protestant.. Including the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglicans.
Matthew 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

DO YOU SEE IT??
Double_Helix46 Jesus is ALWAYS with the Holy Catholic Church!!
You must REJECT the scriptures to say differently, you MUST reject Christians.. Christians believe the scriptures, I am Christian!

Double_Helix46 You can't say the verse "FROM AMONG YOU WILL COME FALSE TEACHERS" is NOT about the Roman Catholic Church. To say the verse does not mean the Catholic Church.. "You will have to reject Jesus!" CHRISTIANS believe the words of Jesus, The words of Jesus; "From AMONG YOU will come false teachers"!
"Jesus is ALWAYS WITH His Church!"
You are forced to reject the PROPHESY and the Fact Jesus' Church is the Catholic Church!

2) Scriptures point to praying for other..
Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God"s people.

DO YOU SEE IT? The twenty-four elders are interceding between God and the Saints on earth!!

FACT: There is NO sin in heaven.. ZERO SIN!! All sin must be removed before entry is allowed into heaven!
1 John 5:16
If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

DO YOU SEE IT? Some sins do not kill! Brothers and sisters are CHRISTIANS, some Christians die with sins that do not send them to Gehenna (eternal fire) You should pray for them.. God will remove the sin "The sins that do not kill" they will be saved by YOUR PRAYERS!!!

3)
The Rich Man and Lazarus
The Rich Man addresses Abraham as "FATHER"!
Abraham addresses the Rich Man as "SON"!
The Rich Man would not be Abraham's son if he was in Gehenna!
If he was in Gehenna, he would be the son of Satan, Abraham would not call him his SON if he was in Gehenna!
Clearly the Rich Man was NOT in Gehenna with Satan!
Luke 16:27
"He answered, "Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family,
28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment."


Double_Helix46 The Rich Man has COMPASSION for his brothers!! A man in Gehenna is full of HATE; No compassion no LOVE!
Double_Helix46 This Scriptures tells us.. "People that are dead CAN and DO INTERCEDE for those on earth!"
Don't forget this story is told to us by Jesus himself.. Clearly he points out the two Abraham and the Rich Man are in the same family: Father & Son"!

Galatians 3:29
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham"s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Clearly; Abraham's Children go to heaven, CHRISTIANS are Abraham's Children and they INTERCEDE for those on earth! !!!!!

Double_Helix46 You accuse Catholic's of requesting Mary for help??? All you do is prove you are NOT Mary' Child! All of Mary' Children are BROTHERS and SISTER'S of Jesus! You are NOT Jesus' BROTHER you reject Mary!

All MUST go to Jesus... Who says Mary would not ask Jesus to help her Children on earth.. As the Rich Man tried to do with Abraham!!??

Double_Helix46 Who says the dead can't help that they can't hear!!?????
The Transfiguration
Luke 9:29
As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning.
30 Two men, Moses and Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus.
31 They spoke about his departure, which he was about to bring to fulfillment at Jerusalem.


Clearly Moses and Elijah appeared to discus with Jesus his death & Resurrection!! They were there to HELP!!!!
They could TALK with Jesus!!!!!
Who says the they can't ask Jesus to help CHRISTIANS left on earth?????!

Mary is the QUEEN of heaven and EARTH!
Revelation 12:1
A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.
2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.


You said.. We can say this about the Roman Catholic Church. Who, pray to saints and Mary!

I reply: You can't because of the above scriptures! And because the CHURCH TEACHES it!
4) Scriptures tell you to "LISTEN TO THE CHURCH!"
Double_Helix46 "Listen to the Church" was written in the "De-Formers" bibles as it is STILL written in your bible today!

The scriptures say: "The CHURCH is the Pillar and the foundation of truth!"
This was written in the "De-Formers" bibles as it is STILL written in your bible today!

For you to say..We can say this about the Roman Catholic Church. Who, pray to saints and Mary! You MUST reject the scriptures!!
You MUST reject what CHRISTIANS have always done... "Pray for help from our Brother's and Sister's in heaven!"

You MUST reject that the our Brother's and Sister's in heaven can intercede for us..

5) You MUST reject.. The Thousands of Miracles that have happened because of Prayers to Mary and the other Saints in heaven!

Double_Helix46 you must reject the scriptures, LOGIC, CHRISTIANS and the facts.. Miracles happen because of prayers to Mary and the Saints!!

You are a believer of "FALSE TEACHERS" (PROVEN by scriptures)!!
You are NOT part of "The Way Of Truth"(PROVEN by scriptures)!!!
You are NOT in the body of Jesus so Mary is NOT she CANNOT be you mother! (PROVEN by scriptures)!!
Jesus cannot be your BROTHER so God cannot be your father!(PROVEN by scriptures)!!

Double_Helix46 Run from the lies of Protestantism they are "False Teachers"!

Dogknox
Dogknox
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10/9/2012 6:17:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 4:53:38 PM, joneszj wrote:
Dog, your totally welcome to join the study! Good to have you aboard!
Hello joneszj Good to meet you..
What study?!
joneszj
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10/9/2012 6:18:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 6:17:05 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 10/9/2012 4:53:38 PM, joneszj wrote:
Dog, your totally welcome to join the study! Good to have you aboard!
Hello joneszj Good to meet you..
What study?!

Well that of the OP of course.
Dogknox
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10/9/2012 6:40:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 6:18:46 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 10/9/2012 6:17:05 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 10/9/2012 4:53:38 PM, joneszj wrote:
Dog, your totally welcome to join the study! Good to have you aboard!
Hello joneszj Good to meet you..
What study?!

Well that of the OP of course.
"OP"?
joneszj
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10/9/2012 7:10:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 6:40:09 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 10/9/2012 6:18:46 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 10/9/2012 6:17:05 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 10/9/2012 4:53:38 PM, joneszj wrote:
Dog, your totally welcome to join the study! Good to have you aboard!
Hello joneszj Good to meet you..
What study?!

Well that of the OP of course.
"OP"?

Original post
Dogknox
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10/9/2012 7:32:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 7:10:23 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 10/9/2012 6:40:09 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 10/9/2012 6:18:46 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 10/9/2012 6:17:05 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 10/9/2012 4:53:38 PM, joneszj wrote:
Dog, your totally welcome to join the study! Good to have you aboard!
Hello joneszj Good to meet you..
What study?!

Well that of the OP of course.
"OP"?

Original post
OOOOOOOooooooh... Stupid me!! :-(
Original post >>>> this thread.. The first post... Got it!
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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10/9/2012 9:22:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 12:17:41 PM, joneszj wrote:
At 10/9/2012 12:00:26 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 10/9/2012 11:32:32 AM, joneszj wrote:
At 10/9/2012 11:11:58 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Now that Dogknox has called Chapter XV to my attention, I am very suspicious of this entire document.

You should be. But that is the point of the study as well.

joneszj So let me get this straight... you say "AlwaysMoreThanYou should be very suspicious of this entire document"??!!

Yes he should. As should you and I. It is not scripture so scrutiny and caution is advised.

I point to scriptures.. (I always do point to scriptures) The Westminster Confession is the work of Satan!

uh huh...

False Teachers and Their Destruction is found in this PROPHESY!!
2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them"bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.


The "De-Formers" Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglicans came from within the Holy Catholic Church>> AMONG the Catholic Church they came!!
The Holy Catholic Church did NOT come out of the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches! The PROPHESY is correct...
there will be false teachers among you

Face ... into ... palm

The Catholic Church was NOT AMONG the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches the Prophesy can only work in the one direction!! This PROVES beyond all doubt the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches are FALSE TEACHERS!!
Verse #2 (above) PROVES the Holy Catholic Church is "The Way Of Truth"! It PROVES the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglican churches are NOT, they cannot be "the way of truth"! The PROPHESY is the words of God, the PROPHESY can only work in the one direction.. The Catholic Church DID NOT come from AMONG the De-Formers!!

Christians believe the scriptures!
Catholic's are Christians!

The Muslims have a prophesy it goes like this: The Anti-Christ will be born of a man the Anti-Christ will be mother-less!
Thinking about this prophesy, I feel they might be right!!

Catholic's have a Mother.. Mary/Church!
Catholic's have a Father .. God!
Even Jesus had a Mother and Father, Jesus does NOT come from a broken home!

The protestant.. all protestants claim; "God is their father"!
All protestant every protestant.. Including the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglicans are mother-less!!!
I point out.. No father gains the title "FATHER" unless a Mother gives birth! No protestant has a mother.. "Children of God but no Mother.. ????? WORMS and SATAN have no mother.. Protestants have no mother!

face ... into ... palm ... again

I think the Muslims hit the Snake square on the head with their prophesy!!!

Dogknox

Your argumentation resembles that of composers. You two should totally go at it!

I have been trying to arrange debate between Dog and Composer for weeks. I'm sure I could come up with a suitable topic. The only glitch in my plan is that neither of them debate, period - so I'm kinda tryin' to arrange a debate between two non-debaters.

I was hoping to set it up on a "pay-per-view" basis with nominal extra charges for making comments and/or voting. We will add an additional option by which one can cast a vote for them both to lose.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
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10/9/2012 10:44:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Double_Helix46 you there.. You gonna reply to my post... about eight (8) back!!?

You make an accusation then walk away.. Is this it??? Are you another annanicole lots of insult, accusation!!??

Dogknox
annanicole
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10/9/2012 10:58:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 10:44:10 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Double_Helix46 you there.. You gonna reply to my post... about eight (8) back!!?

You make an accusation then walk away.. Is this it??? Are you another annanicole lots of insult, accusation!!??

Dogknox

Oh, I don't walk away, DogKnox. You do. I can't help it one bit if, when I asked for an example of, reason for, scriptural authority for ... praying to Mary or any other dead person, you simply rambled in circles and yapped about "honoring Mary". But remember, you never once found an ounce of support in the Bible for your ridiculous doctrine. You know it. I know it. Everyone else here knows it.

That's not an insult. It's just the truth. My advice to you would be:

(1) If you can't find a thing in the Bible about praying to Mary
(2) If you can't prove whether Mary hears you or not
(3) If you can't find where any Christian was ever told to pray to a dead person
(4) If you can't find an example of anyone praying to Mary

For heaven's sake, quit defending the silly practice. You are the one who starts it - and you always wind up on the short end of the stick. Why don't you simply pray to God the Father through the mediation of the Lord Jesus Christ, and stop all your imbecilic ranting about "Mary is a good mother"?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
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10/9/2012 11:36:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 10:58:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/9/2012 10:44:10 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Double_Helix46 you there.. You gonna reply to my post... about eight (8) back!!?

You make an accusation then walk away.. Is this it??? Are you another annanicole lots of insult, accusation!!??

Dogknox

Oh, I don't walk away, DogKnox. You do. I can't help it one bit if, when I asked for an example of, reason for, scriptural authority for ... praying to Mary or any other dead person, you simply rambled in circles and yapped about "honoring Mary". But remember, you never once found an ounce of support in the Bible for your ridiculous doctrine. You know it. I know it. Everyone else here knows it.

That's not an insult. It's just the truth. My advice to you would be:

(1) If you can't find a thing in the Bible about praying to Mary
(2) If you can't prove whether Mary hears you or not
(3) If you can't find where any Christian was ever told to pray to a dead person
(4) If you can't find an example of anyone praying to Mary

For heaven's sake, quit defending the silly practice. You are the one who starts it - and you always wind up on the short end of the stick. Why don't you simply pray to God the Father through the mediation of the Lord Jesus Christ, and stop all your imbecilic ranting about "Mary is a good mother"?

Scriptures please.. All I see is insult and accusation!! Just your words.. They mean nothing!!
Double_Helix46
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10/10/2012 12:40:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 4:25:57 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Double_Helix46 You said..
The scriptures say you are wrong!!:
Really, show me!!!!

1) Jesus is ALWAYS with the Church he formed..:
He formed a spiritual church not a physical one. Peter was the one who formed the RCC not Jesus Christ.
The ONLY CHURCH Jesus formed was not protestant.. Including the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglicans.:
Jesus Church was not Catholic, protestant or any man name.
Matthew 28:20

DO YOU SEE IT??:
No, I did not see it and you did not either unless you use your imagination.
Double_Helix46 Jesus is ALWAYS with the Holy Catholic Church!! :
Jesus is with any who follows him not a man-made church. Not Peter's church.
You must REJECT the scriptures to say differently, you MUST reject Christians.. Christians believe the scriptures, I am Christian!:
Christians do believe the scriptures and do not place in them what is not there. Were does the scriptures say Jesus Christ formed the RCC? It doesn't you make it up.

Double_Helix46 You can't say the verse "FROM AMONG YOU WILL COME FALSE TEACHERS" is NOT about the Roman Catholic Church. To say the verse does not mean the Catholic Church.. "You will have to reject Jesus!":
You kneel and pray to people and things other than Jesus Christ. Yes you are not following the scriptures. That means you.
CHRISTIANS believe the words of Jesus, The words of Jesus; "From AMONG YOU will come false teachers"!:
What that mean those who killed millions in the name heresay? Would that be those who teach millions to pray to things and dead people and not Jesus himself? Would that be a church who forms it's own doctrine away from the Bible an claims the scriptures are not sufficant enough?
"Jesus is ALWAYS WITH His Church!"
You are forced to reject the PROPHESY and the Fact Jesus' Church is the Catholic Church!
2) Scriptures point to praying for other..
Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God"s people.:
DO YOU SEE IT? The twenty-four elders are interceding between God and the Saints on earth!!:
No I did not see anyone interceding. I saw elders praising God. I seen that all the prayers of God's people(saints) prayers as incense.

DO YOU SEE IT? Some sins do not kill! Brothers and sisters are CHRISTIANS, some Christians die with sins that do not send them to Gehenna (eternal fire) You should pray for them.. God will remove the sin "The sins that do not kill" they will be saved by YOUR PRAYERS!!!:
No, I did not see it. Explain it.
Galatians 3:29
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham"s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Clearly; Abraham's Children go to heaven, CHRISTIANS are Abraham's Children and they INTERCEDE for those on earth! !!!!!:
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not between one, but God is one.

Double_Helix46 You accuse Catholic's of requesting Mary for help??? All you do is prove you are NOT Mary' Child! All of Mary' Children are BROTHERS and SISTER'S of Jesus! You are NOT Jesus' BROTHER you reject Mary!:
Jesus Christ is all I need to pray to.

All MUST go to Jesus... Who says Mary would not ask Jesus to help her Children on earth..:
The scriptures do not say it.
Umm...Eve is the mother of all living, remember?

Clearly Moses and Elijah appeared to discus with Jesus his death & Resurrection!! They were there to HELP!!!!
They could TALK with Jesus!!!!!
Who says the they can't ask Jesus to help CHRISTIANS left on earth?????!:
You assert. Where does it say that in that verse? It doesn't.

The scriptures say: "The CHURCH is the Pillar and the foundation of truth!"
This was written in the "De-Formers" bibles as it is STILL written in your bible today!:
No, Jesus Christ was the rock of the Church not Peter.

For you to say..We can say this about the Roman Catholic Church. Who, pray to saints and Mary! You MUST reject the scriptures!!
You MUST reject what CHRISTIANS have always done... "Pray for help from our Brother's and Sister's in heaven!":
A unBiblical tradition that needs to stop.

You MUST reject that the our Brother's and Sister's in heaven can intercede for us..:
Really? Seems the scriptures disagree.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

5) You MUST reject.. The Thousands of Miracles that have happened because of Prayers to Mary and the other Saints in heaven!:
Again, show were in the scriptures is says to pray to saints and Mary?

Double_Helix46 you must reject the scriptures, LOGIC, CHRISTIANS and the facts.. Miracles happen because of prayers to Mary and the Saints!!

You are a believer of "FALSE TEACHERS" (PROVEN by scriptures)!!:
Were? You have not shown nothing but that you can judge people.
You are NOT part of "The Way Of Truth"(PROVEN by scriptures)!!!
You are NOT in the body of Jesus so Mary is NOT she CANNOT be you mother! (PROVEN by scriptures)!!:
She is not my mother.
Jesus cannot be your BROTHER so God cannot be your father!(PROVEN by scriptures)!!;
No, it was not.

Double_Helix46 Run from the lies of Protestantism they are "False Teachers"!
You should take that advice about the Rcc.
Dogknox
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10/11/2012 7:55:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Double_Helix46 You said..
We can say this about the Roman Catholic Church. Who, pray to saints and Mary! Do you pray to Mary? You will remember that Pope John Paul II when he was shot kept crying, "Mary, save me...Mary, save me...Mary, save me." And why call upon the Lord? Luke 11:27 "And it came to pass, as he spoke these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said to him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said(Jesus), Yes rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it." No where does the scriptures say praise Mary nor pray unto her.

I reply: The scriptures say you are wrong!!
Right here...
1) Jesus is ALWAYS with the Church he formed.. The ONLY CHURCH Jesus formed was not protestant.. Including the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Anglicans.

Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to the Church he put Peter as Shepherd of at Pentecost! Jesus' Church can only be the Holy Catholic Church there was NO others!
Matthew 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

DO YOU SEE IT?? All who believe in Jesus are Catholic's there was NO other body of believers! Jesus is ALWAYS with his believers! As mentioned already you reject the words of Jesus! Example.. "Jesus is ALWAYS WITH you" can't mean you because all are Catholic's!
Double_Helix46 Jesus is ALWAYS with the Holy Catholic Church!!
You must REJECT the scriptures to say differently, you MUST reject Christians.. Christians believe the scriptures, I am Christian!

Double_Helix46
"Jesus is ALWAYS WITH His Church!"
You are forced to reject the PROPHESY and the Fact Jesus' Church is the Catholic Church!

2) Scriptures point to praying for other..
Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God"s people.

DO YOU SEE IT? The twenty-four elders are interceding between God and the Saints on earth!!
All the prayers of God's people are handed to God as incense. The 24 elders go to Jesus with the prayers of other people!! The Elders go to Jesus for us!!
Mary also goes to Jesus for us!

FACT: There is NO sin in heaven.. ZERO SIN!! All sin must be removed before entry is allowed into heaven!
1 John 5:16
If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death.

DO YOU SEE IT? Some sins do not kill! SCRIPTURES TELL YOU....
I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death.
Double_Helix46 Brothers and sisters are CHRISTIANS, some Christians die with sins that do not send them to Gehenna (eternal fire) You should pray for them.. God will remove the sin "The sins that do not kill" they will be saved by YOUR PRAYERS!!!

You must reject this SCRIPTURE (above) Praying for others, so God will Give them life!!
Some sins do not kill...
You should pray for people that have died with sins.. So God will Give them life!!

Dogknox