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Harvard Neurosurgeon experienced Heaven?

imabench
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10/9/2012 8:28:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://news.yahoo.com...

A well respected Neurosurgeon who has taught medicine at Harvard claims that he had been to Heaven in the afterlife while he was in a coma, and he went into extensive detail about how it must be real by using his own knowledge about how the brain works.

"there is absolutely no way that I could have experienced even a dim and limited consciousness during my time in the coma, much less the hyper-vivid and completely coherent odyssey I underwent"

The doctor/harvard teacher went on to describe heaven as "transparent, shimmering beings arced across the sky, leaving long, streamer like lines behind them"

He also claimed that he had an unknown female escort him through Heaven and that they communicated in a way "through a method of correspondence that transcended language" where the female escort said things like "You are loved and cherished, dearly, forever. You have nothing to fear. There is nothing you can do wrong."

After that though he then claims that he traveled to an immense void, completely dark, infinite in size, yet also infinitely comforting.

I would like to state two things.
1) He never claimed to have met God or seen him
2) This is a person who has has structured his entire life around science and how the brain works who wasnt deeply religious, he wasnt some super religious nut trying to use his expertise in brain medicine to try to convince people that Heaven exists.
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twocupcakes
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10/9/2012 8:44:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The brain is capable of some pretty crazy stuff. People have had "personal experiences" of a great variety for almost every religion. If he was still alive why would he be in heaven? When the mind goes through trauma it can some some crazy stuff. Once before I was getting surgery my heart stopped for a couple of seconds and I felt a "comforting feeling". But there is no reason to think the feeling is magical or caused by a higher power.
Paradox_7
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10/9/2012 8:48:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 8:44:31 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Once before I was getting surgery my heart stopped for a couple of seconds and I felt a "comforting feeling". But there is no reason to think the feeling is magical or caused by a higher power.:

While I agree with you; I have to ask-- Why not?
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
imabench
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10/9/2012 8:54:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 8:44:31 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
The brain is capable of some pretty crazy stuff. People have had "personal experiences" of a great variety for almost every religion. If he was still alive why would he be in heaven?

He was in a coma when his brain was completely shut down.

When the mind goes through trauma it can some some crazy stuff. Once before I was getting surgery my heart stopped for a couple of seconds and I felt a "comforting feeling". But there is no reason to think the feeling is magical or caused by a higher power.

First off, i think a neurosurgeon who teached medicine at harvard knows how the brain works when it goes through trauma. The fact that he knows all of this, went through this traumatic experience, and arrived at the conclusion that there is an afterlife since he knows the brain couldnt have fabricated this while in a coma because it couldnt have been active enough to imagine it says a lot about its possible existence.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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10/9/2012 9:07:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't really see the relevance when actual argumentation isn't brought into the picture. He experienced it, really? Francis Collins headed the Human Genome Project and claimed to have experienced the Christian trinity in a waterfall. Who cares.
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twocupcakes
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10/9/2012 9:17:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 8:48:30 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 10/9/2012 8:44:31 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Once before I was getting surgery my heart stopped for a couple of seconds and I felt a "comforting feeling". But there is no reason to think the feeling is magical or caused by a higher power.:

While I agree with you; I have to ask-- Why not?

Why would any feeling be caused by a magical power. When I feel focused is God making me feel this, when I feel happy is God making me feel this? Maybe when I get drunk Dionysus, the God of wine, makes me feel happy? Just because it is unknown where a feeling came, does mean it is magic that caused it. Unknown does not equal magic.
Lordknukle
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10/9/2012 9:19:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 8:54:41 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/9/2012 8:44:31 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
The brain is capable of some pretty crazy stuff. People have had "personal experiences" of a great variety for almost every religion. If he was still alive why would he be in heaven?

He was in a coma when his brain was completely shut down.

This is awful physiology. The brain is on sleep mode when in a coma, but not shut down.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
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10/9/2012 9:24:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
There are numerous chemicals that the brain releases when it thinks it's about to die that can easily make you see some stuff. There's even a theory that the brain releases a specific chemical (can't remember the name) when it thinks that it's going to die that pretty much lets an individual experience the effects of that chemical forever- because they can't feel time.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
twocupcakes
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10/9/2012 9:26:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 8:54:41 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/9/2012 8:44:31 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
The brain is capable of some pretty crazy stuff. People have had "personal experiences" of a great variety for almost every religion. If he was still alive why would he be in heaven?

He was in a coma when his brain was completely shut down.

When the mind goes through trauma it can some some crazy stuff. Once before I was getting surgery my heart stopped for a couple of seconds and I felt a "comforting feeling". But there is no reason to think the feeling is magical or caused by a higher power.

First off, i think a neurosurgeon who teached medicine at harvard knows how the brain works when it goes through trauma. The fact that he knows all of this, went through this traumatic experience, and arrived at the conclusion that there is an afterlife since he knows the brain couldnt have fabricated this while in a coma because it couldnt have been active enough to imagine it says a lot about its possible existence.

It really does not say much. His brain remembers what happened. Why would his brain remember what happened if it was off? Why would he be in heaven if he was not dead? Just because it is unknown how it happened does not mean it is supernatural.
16kadams
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10/9/2012 9:35:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think the book "90 minutes in heaven" was resting. The man was pronounced dead for 90 minutes and claims to have been in heaven.
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Lordknukle
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10/9/2012 9:36:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 9:35:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
I think the book "90 minutes in heaven" was resting. The man was pronounced dead for 90 minutes and claims to have been in heaven.

Wow... because nobody can totally right a book about fake personal experiences, amiright?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
THEBOMB
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10/9/2012 9:39:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 9:36:12 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 10/9/2012 9:35:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
I think the book "90 minutes in heaven" was resting. The man was pronounced dead for 90 minutes and claims to have been in heaven.

Wow... because nobody can totally right a book about fake personal experiences, amiright?

You spelled write wrong.
Lordknukle
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10/9/2012 9:47:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 9:39:46 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 10/9/2012 9:36:12 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 10/9/2012 9:35:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
I think the book "90 minutes in heaven" was resting. The man was pronounced dead for 90 minutes and claims to have been in heaven.

Wow... because nobody can totally right a book about fake personal experiences, amiright?

You spelled write wrong.

Jee.. thanks for your extremely productive input.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
GODisreal
Posts: 127
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10/9/2012 9:47:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well first of all if He wasn't religious, and he wasn't a nut, and his brain was completely shut down, then how could he have remembered this? If his brain was too inactive to imagine it, then wouldn't it have been to inactive to hear the female, or to remember a vivid description, or what she said? Second of all, we know close to nothing on know how the brain works. The brain does some pretty weird stuff indeed, and we just cannot explain why. Has anyone heard about the one dude who smacked his head, and when he woke up a piano prodigy? We can't explain that, we can't explain the brain how the brain works. And to finalize, He said there is an after life, and he went there. What logic tells us is that afterlife is after you die, right? AFTER LIFE, after your life, okay you get it. The guy wasn't dead, he was in a coma. How did he then conclude that was the afterlife was the place he visited based on science. It wasn't after he died. There is always the possibility that he lied, was high, hallucinated, imagined it while in coma (it wouldn't be the first thing neurologists couldn't explain,) or he is cray cray.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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10/9/2012 9:49:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 8:54:41 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/9/2012 8:44:31 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
The brain is capable of some pretty crazy stuff. People have had "personal experiences" of a great variety for almost every religion. If he was still alive why would he be in heaven?

He was in a coma when his brain was completely shut down.

Your brain is not completely shut down while you are in a coma. Even individuals in vegetative states have some brain activity.

http://news.cnet.com...

There has to be a level of brain activity in order for the person to remain alive.
When the mind goes through trauma it can some some crazy stuff. Once before I was getting surgery my heart stopped for a couple of seconds and I felt a "comforting feeling". But there is no reason to think the feeling is magical or caused by a higher power.

First off, i think a neurosurgeon who teached medicine at harvard knows how the brain works when it goes through trauma. The fact that he knows all of this, went through this traumatic experience, and arrived at the conclusion that there is an afterlife since he knows the brain couldnt have fabricated this while in a coma because it couldnt have been active enough to imagine it says a lot about its possible existence.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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10/9/2012 9:49:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 9:47:43 PM, GODisreal wrote:
Well first of all if He wasn't religious, and he wasn't a nut, and his brain was completely shut down, then how could he have remembered this? If his brain was too inactive to imagine it, then wouldn't it have been to inactive to hear the female, or to remember a vivid description, or what she said? Second of all, we know close to nothing on know how the brain works. The brain does some pretty weird stuff indeed, and we just cannot explain why. Has anyone heard about the one dude who smacked his head, and when he woke up a piano prodigy? We can't explain that, we can't explain the brain how the brain works. And to finalize, He said there is an after life, and he went there. What logic tells us is that afterlife is after you die, right? AFTER LIFE, after your life, okay you get it. The guy wasn't dead, he was in a coma. How did he then conclude that was the afterlife was the place he visited based on science. It wasn't after he died. There is always the possibility that he lied, was high, hallucinated, imagined it while in coma (it wouldn't be the first thing neurologists couldn't explain,) or he is cray cray.

Bad logic and physiology is bad.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
popculturepooka
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10/9/2012 10:03:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 9:52:16 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
This guy is a liar. He says he was not religious prior to this experience, but he attended a church.

I'd just like to point out that that doesn't necessarily make one "religious".
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
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socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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10/9/2012 10:09:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 10:03:55 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/9/2012 9:52:16 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
This guy is a liar. He says he was not religious prior to this experience, but he attended a church.

I'd just like to point out that that doesn't necessarily make one "religious".

Pretty much. I used to go to church pretty much every week around two years ago. My dad appreciated the sermons from an explicitly secular perspective and they served breakfast. The cool thing was it wasn't an uptight arsehole church where people care about what you're wearing or how you're hair looks. #baptist_childhood
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
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THEBOMB
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10/9/2012 10:09:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 9:47:18 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 10/9/2012 9:39:46 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 10/9/2012 9:36:12 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 10/9/2012 9:35:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
I think the book "90 minutes in heaven" was resting. The man was pronounced dead for 90 minutes and claims to have been in heaven.

Wow... because nobody can totally right a book about fake personal experiences, amiright?

You spelled write wrong.

Jee.. thanks for your extremely productive input.

No problem :)
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
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10/9/2012 10:13:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 9:24:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
There are numerous chemicals that the brain releases when it thinks it's about to die that can easily make you see some stuff. There's even a theory that the brain releases a specific chemical (can't remember the name) when it thinks that it's going to die that pretty much lets an individual experience the effects of that chemical forever- because they can't feel time.

Can you explain this more? Maybe even provide a link for this? I'm not doubting or refuting, I'm honestly just curious. What does this chemical supposedly do?
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Zaradi
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10/9/2012 10:15:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 9:52:16 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
This guy is a liar. He says he was not religious prior to this experience, but he attended a church.

At 10/9/2012 9:56:49 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
This man is a documented fraud; he was even caught and fined by the Virgina Medical Board for unethical conduct.

Thank you Royalpaladin for the extremely productive, intellectually stimulating, ad hominem. HE'S TOTALLY WRONG HEAVEN CAN'T EXIST BECAUSE HE DID FRAUD BACK IN VIRGINIA AND WAS TOTALLY RELIGIOUS BUT SAID HE WASN'T SO HE LIES ALL THE TIME SO HE HAS TO BE LYING NOW!!!!!11!

Really? Really?
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Lordknukle
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10/9/2012 10:20:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 10:13:28 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 10/9/2012 9:24:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
There are numerous chemicals that the brain releases when it thinks it's about to die that can easily make you see some stuff. There's even a theory that the brain releases a specific chemical (can't remember the name) when it thinks that it's going to die that pretty much lets an individual experience the effects of that chemical forever- because they can't feel time.

Can you explain this more? Maybe even provide a link for this? I'm not doubting or refuting, I'm honestly just curious. What does this chemical supposedly do?

DMT.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
popculturepooka
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10/9/2012 10:21:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 10:09:11 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 10/9/2012 10:03:55 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/9/2012 9:52:16 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
This guy is a liar. He says he was not religious prior to this experience, but he attended a church.

I'd just like to point out that that doesn't necessarily make one "religious".

Pretty much. I used to go to church pretty much every week around two years ago. My dad appreciated the sermons from an explicitly secular perspective and they served breakfast. The cool thing was it wasn't an uptight arsehole church where people care about what you're wearing or how you're hair looks. #baptist_childhood

WHAT?! I'm kinda feel like I've been missing out all these years now...was it a small church? I mean we have snacks and stuff but nothing like that...

But, yeah, I go to a church like that too.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
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mattrodstrom
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10/9/2012 10:21:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 8:54:41 PM, imabench wrote:
the brain couldnt have fabricated this while in a coma because it couldnt have been active enough to imagine it

yeah, and if it weren't active enough in the middle of the coma.. why not in the 10 minutes before he awoke?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
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10/9/2012 10:24:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 10:03:55 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/9/2012 9:52:16 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
This guy is a liar. He says he was not religious prior to this experience, but he attended a church.

I'd just like to point out that that doesn't necessarily make one "religious".

it certainly suggests you probably lean that way... or "are open" to it.. lol..

granted, I attend church about once or twice a year.. and I'm not..
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
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10/9/2012 10:26:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 10:20:06 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 10/9/2012 10:13:28 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 10/9/2012 9:24:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
There are numerous chemicals that the brain releases when it thinks it's about to die that can easily make you see some stuff. There's even a theory that the brain releases a specific chemical (can't remember the name) when it thinks that it's going to die that pretty much lets an individual experience the effects of that chemical forever- because they can't feel time.

Can you explain this more? Maybe even provide a link for this? I'm not doubting or refuting, I'm honestly just curious. What does this chemical supposedly do?

DMT.

What....the.....fvck.
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tulle
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10/9/2012 10:27:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 10:21:42 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 10/9/2012 8:54:41 PM, imabench wrote:
the brain couldnt have fabricated this while in a coma because it couldnt have been active enough to imagine it

yeah, and if it weren't active enough in the middle of the coma.. why not in the 10 minutes before he awoke?

I've actually been in a coma... and I think this is false.

""According to current medical understanding of the brain and mind, there is absolutely no way that I could have experienced even a dim and limited consciousness during my time in the coma, much less the hyper-vivid and completely coherent odyssey I underwent," Alexander writes in the cover story of this week's edition of Newsweek."

Someone show me how this is true.
yang.
mattrodstrom
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10/9/2012 10:28:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 10:09:11 PM, socialpinko wrote:
My dad appreciated the sermons from an explicitly secular perspective and they served breakfast.

I always liked the Homilies in catholic church... but there are better things to do..

also it may be that some people pretend to be religious or go to church predominantly for social reasons...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."