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EvanK
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10/11/2012 10:42:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
**First off I would please ask that any religious, especially catholic, bashing be left at the door. I'm not interested in a religious dick waving battle, simply interested in the opinions of others. If you want to suggest other religions, or discuss them here, fine, but please no bashing of Catholics, or telling me Catholicism is nonsense, because I am not interested in discussing it, and will ignore it. Thanks.**

I'm not sure what I believe atm, but I was baptized, although I haven't been confirmed or had confession (thankfully :P) or communion...(long story as to why, don't feel like explaining right now).

But I had a question. If I can't believe in a certain doctrine, can't, not won't, am I going to hell? The specific doctrine I question is prayer (don't we all?) and I can't bring myself to believe in it. And of course, it is a huge part of catholicism. Would I go to hell for not believing, or not praying? By pray, I mean ask for things. Not thanking God, which I do (or try to) every day (even though I'm agnostic, I still thank whatever deity may exist, just in case, I am serious about it though).

I can't make myself believe that if I ask for something enough, I will get it, whether it's a good grade, a job, or that a homeless child that I don't even know gets a meal and a warm shelter. I can't look at the world and say that I believe in any degree of divine intervention. Does this make me damned? Even though I am a good person (or so I am told :P) and even though I am thankful for what I have, will disbelieving damn me?

I ask because the only religion I am drawn to is Catholicism. Something about it, mainly the ritual of the mass, draws me to it, like no other religion. I have experimented as much as I can, but I am only drawn to Catholicism. So for me it's either that or nothing. So what advice can you offer on this subject? I won't ask a priest because I live at home (I'm 17) and if I even hint at bringing this subject up (or any subject even hinting at my religious doubts) my parents would go ape sh!t, especially my Mom (who I love to death, so please don't say I am disrespectful). So asking anyone irl is out of the question, and I was simply interested in DDO's Catholic's opinion.

Thank you! :D
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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10/11/2012 10:53:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/11/2012 10:42:22 PM, EvanK wrote:
**First off I would please ask that any religious, especially catholic, bashing be left at the door. I'm not interested in a religious dick waving battle, simply interested in the opinions of others. If you want to suggest other religions, or discuss them here, fine, but please no bashing of Catholics, or telling me Catholicism is nonsense, because I am not interested in discussing it, and will ignore it. Thanks.**


I'm not sure what I believe atm, but I was baptized, although I haven't been confirmed or had confession (thankfully :P) or communion...(long story as to why, don't feel like explaining right now).

But I had a question. If I can't believe in a certain doctrine, can't, not won't, am I going to hell? The specific doctrine I question is prayer (don't we all?) and I can't bring myself to believe in it. And of course, it is a huge part of catholicism. Would I go to hell for not believing, or not praying? By pray, I mean ask for things. Not thanking God, which I do (or try to) every day (even though I'm agnostic, I still thank whatever deity may exist, just in case, I am serious about it though).

I can't make myself believe that if I ask for something enough, I will get it, whether it's a good grade, a job, or that a homeless child that I don't even know gets a meal and a warm shelter. I can't look at the world and say that I believe in any degree of divine intervention. Does this make me damned? Even though I am a good person (or so I am told :P) and even though I am thankful for what I have, will disbelieving damn me?

I ask because the only religion I am drawn to is Catholicism. Something about it, mainly the ritual of the mass, draws me to it, like no other religion. I have experimented as much as I can, but I am only drawn to Catholicism. So for me it's either that or nothing. So what advice can you offer on this subject? I won't ask a priest because I live at home (I'm 17) and if I even hint at bringing this subject up (or any subject even hinting at my religious doubts) my parents would go ape sh!t, especially my Mom (who I love to death, so please don't say I am disrespectful). So asking anyone irl is out of the question, and I was simply interested in DDO's Catholic's opinion.

Thank you! :D

Well...you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church for the answer to your question :P
EvanK
Posts: 599
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10/11/2012 11:03:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/11/2012 10:53:21 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 10/11/2012 10:42:22 PM, EvanK wrote:
**First off I would please ask that any religious, especially catholic, bashing be left at the door. I'm not interested in a religious dick waving battle, simply interested in the opinions of others. If you want to suggest other religions, or discuss them here, fine, but please no bashing of Catholics, or telling me Catholicism is nonsense, because I am not interested in discussing it, and will ignore it. Thanks.**


I'm not sure what I believe atm, but I was baptized, although I haven't been confirmed or had confession (thankfully :P) or communion...(long story as to why, don't feel like explaining right now).

But I had a question. If I can't believe in a certain doctrine, can't, not won't, am I going to hell? The specific doctrine I question is prayer (don't we all?) and I can't bring myself to believe in it. And of course, it is a huge part of catholicism. Would I go to hell for not believing, or not praying? By pray, I mean ask for things. Not thanking God, which I do (or try to) every day (even though I'm agnostic, I still thank whatever deity may exist, just in case, I am serious about it though).

I can't make myself believe that if I ask for something enough, I will get it, whether it's a good grade, a job, or that a homeless child that I don't even know gets a meal and a warm shelter. I can't look at the world and say that I believe in any degree of divine intervention. Does this make me damned? Even though I am a good person (or so I am told :P) and even though I am thankful for what I have, will disbelieving damn me?

I ask because the only religion I am drawn to is Catholicism. Something about it, mainly the ritual of the mass, draws me to it, like no other religion. I have experimented as much as I can, but I am only drawn to Catholicism. So for me it's either that or nothing. So what advice can you offer on this subject? I won't ask a priest because I live at home (I'm 17) and if I even hint at bringing this subject up (or any subject even hinting at my religious doubts) my parents would go ape sh!t, especially my Mom (who I love to death, so please don't say I am disrespectful). So asking anyone irl is out of the question, and I was simply interested in DDO's Catholic's opinion.

Thank you! :D

Well...you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church for the answer to your question :P

...Or I can ask other people and save myself time sifting through a bunch of mumbo jumbo! :D
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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10/11/2012 11:08:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/11/2012 11:07:04 PM, Koopin wrote:
kfc

You know, Koopin raises a good point.

Why don't they kill all black people at Catholic Mass?!
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EvanK
Posts: 599
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10/11/2012 11:08:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/11/2012 11:07:04 PM, Koopin wrote:
kfc

Prefer homemade over that nasty place! :P
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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10/11/2012 11:10:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
No, we don't believe you'll go to hell for rejecting a specific bit of doctrine. In fact, it's not up to us to declare you're going to hell for anything -- that's a judgement made only by God.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
EvanK
Posts: 599
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10/11/2012 11:13:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/11/2012 11:08:30 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 10/11/2012 11:07:04 PM, Koopin wrote:
kfc

You know, Koopin raises a good point.

Why don't they kill all black people at Catholic Mass?!

Would you rather they did? :P
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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10/11/2012 11:59:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm not Catholic, but from what I understand, you don't even have to be a Christian to avoid going to hell in Catholicism, so I doubt you have to pray either. Of course if you ARE a Catholic, and Catholicism is true, then you will probably be held to a higher standard than non-Christians, so it's hard to say.

I wish you wouldn't be so closed to other views, though. It sounds like you are drawn to Catholicism because you like it. But that isn't a good reason to subscribe to a religion. The only reason you should become a Catholic is if you think Catholicism is true. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant to whether or not it's true. Since it's possible to be wrong about your religious convictions, you should be a little more open to other religious views and not take an all-or-nothing approach.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/12/2012 1:54:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/11/2012 10:42:22 PM, EvanK wrote:
**First off I would please ask that any religious, especially catholic, bashing be left at the door. I'm not interested in a religious dick waving battle, simply interested in the opinions of others. If you want to suggest other religions, or discuss them here, fine, but please no bashing of Catholics, or telling me Catholicism is nonsense, because I am not interested in discussing it, and will ignore it. Thanks.**


I'm not sure what I believe atm, but I was baptized, although I haven't been confirmed or had confession (thankfully :P) or communion...(long story as to why, don't feel like explaining right now).

I advise you go to confession. It's good for you. No one likes it though.

But I had a question. If I can't believe in a certain doctrine, can't, not won't, am I going to hell? The specific doctrine I question is prayer (don't we all?) and I can't bring myself to believe in it. And of course, it is a huge part of catholicism. Would I go to hell for not believing, or not praying? By pray, I mean ask for things. Not thanking God, which I do (or try to) every day (even though I'm agnostic, I still thank whatever deity may exist, just in case, I am serious about it though).

Depends on the doctrine. Some are fallible. Prayer is, I believe, infallible.

I don't mean to be a downer, but you need to believe in the efficacy of prayer. Lots of important Catholic stuff is based on that. You don't necessarily need to believe it always has tangible effects, but that it can have tangible effects.

I can't make myself believe that if I ask for something enough, I will get it, whether it's a good grade, a job, or that a homeless child that I don't even know gets a meal and a warm shelter. I can't look at the world and say that I believe in any degree of divine intervention. Does this make me damned? Even though I am a good person (or so I am told :P) and even though I am thankful for what I have, will disbelieving damn me?

Possibly. You don't necessarily have to believe that praying for something will make it happen, though. Just that God can hear the prayers, and that they are sometimes answered.

Catholics believe in the living God. If you just remain open to the possibility of there being divine intervention, that should be fine. If you outright reject it, that's not so hot.

There's lots of readings I'm sure you can find on the lives of the saints and divine intervention.

I ask because the only religion I am drawn to is Catholicism. Something about it, mainly the ritual of the mass, draws me to it, like no other religion. I have experimented as much as I can, but I am only drawn to Catholicism.

Ayuh, Catholicism is great.

So for me it's either that or nothing. So what advice can you offer on this subject?

The bad/useless kind.

I won't ask a priest because I live at home (I'm 17) and if I even hint at bringing this subject up (or any subject even hinting at my religious doubts) my parents would go ape sh!t, especially my Mom (who I love to death, so please don't say I am disrespectful). So asking anyone irl is out of the question, and I was simply interested in DDO's Catholic's opinion.

Take everything I say with a grain of salt, because I just made it up on the spot and I'm not sure how sound it is.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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10/12/2012 2:57:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
On Hell, that depends on your interpretation of it and which doctrine you subscribe to. Most people hold to a 'traditional' model - explicit faith in Jesus is required to enter Heaven, eternal damnation in Hell and the like. An inclusivist model (which I believe in) posits other methods of entry to Heaven. Also, the issue of whether eternal damnation occurs or annihilationism is right is another key issue to consider.

I would not consider you going to Hell if you actions are quite virtuous, and your descriptions are accurate, although I can't make an authoritative judgement by any means.

I'd suggest reading some of Popculturepooka's debates about Hell as a good introduction to the topic. I did a debate on the doctrinal interpretation of Hell with the esteemed KRFournier a while back - inclusivism or exclusivism http://www.debate.org...
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
Composer
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10/12/2012 4:38:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/12/2012 1:54:34 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
I advise you go to confession. It's good for you. No one likes it though.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: IF you & your popey & other priestly paedophile - homosexual, Nun-raping, rotten fruit producing Cult believe you truly have a Free-Will, they why do you ALL repeatedly need confession?

Surely you would ALL utiliise your (ahem!) Free Will & not repeatedly keep sinning, but you still sin? LOL!

At 10/12/2012 1:54:34 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Depends on the doctrine. Some are fallible. Prayer is, I believe, infallible.

I don't mean to be a downer, but you need to believe in the efficacy of prayer. Lots of important Catholic stuff is based on that. You don't necessarily need to believe it always has tangible effects, but that it can have tangible effects.

I can't make myself believe that if I ask for something enough, I will get it, whether it's a good grade, a job, or that a homeless child that I don't even know gets a meal and a warm shelter. I can't look at the world and say that I believe in any degree of divine intervention. Does this make me damned? Even though I am a good person (or so I am told :P) and even though I am thankful for what I have, will disbelieving damn me?

Possibly. You don't necessarily have to believe that praying for something will make it happen, though. Just that God can hear the prayers, and that they are sometimes answered.

Catholics believe in the living God. If you just remain open to the possibility of there being divine intervention, that should be fine. If you outright reject it, that's not so hot.

There's lots of readings I'm sure you can find on the lives of the saints and divine intervention.

I ask because the only religion I am drawn to is Catholicism. Something about it, mainly the ritual of the mass, draws me to it, like no other religion. I have experimented as much as I can, but I am only drawn to Catholicism.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: What precisely have you ' experimented with ' & how?
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/12/2012 4:56:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/12/2012 4:38:38 AM, Composer wrote:
Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: IF you & your popey & other priestly paedophile - homosexual, Nun-raping, rotten fruit producing Cult believe you truly have a Free-Will, they why do you ALL repeatedly need confession?

Surely you would ALL utiliise your (ahem!) Free Will & not repeatedly keep sinning, but you still sin? LOL!

Because our nature is corrupt, and although our will is technically free, we're going to sin because that's the way we are.

If I put a starving lion in a cage with a lamb, does the lion have free will to not kill and eat the lamb? Probably.

Will it kill and eat the lamb anyway? Almost certainly.

Same with us.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Composer
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10/12/2012 5:31:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/12/2012 4:56:14 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/12/2012 4:38:38 AM, Composer wrote:
Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: IF you & your popey & other priestly paedophile - homosexual, Nun-raping, rotten fruit producing Cult believe you truly have a Free-Will, they why do you ALL repeatedly need confession?

Surely you would ALL utiliise your (ahem!) Free Will & not repeatedly keep sinning, but you still sin? LOL!

Because our nature is corrupt,

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Let's take a look at that suggestion -

1. As your trinitarian jebus was a fully human in every respect (cf. Heb. 2:17) NET Story book, then by your claim your godmans nature wasn't sin-free but corrupt!

Your turn!

Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster and your ONLY Literal Saviour!

and although our will is technically free, we're going to sin because that's the way we are.

If I put a starving lion in a cage with a lamb, does the lion have free will to not kill and eat the lamb? Probably.

Will it kill and eat the lamb anyway? Almost certainly.

Same with us.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/12/2012 5:44:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/12/2012 5:31:39 AM, Composer wrote:
Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Let's take a look at that suggestion -

1. As your trinitarian jebus was a fully human in every respect (cf. Heb. 2:17) NET Story book, then by your claim your godmans nature wasn't sin-free but corrupt!

Your turn!

Pretty much every human is corrupt, but corruption is not by necessity part of being human.

That is, it is possible for a human to not be corrupt.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Composer
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10/12/2012 5:45:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/12/2012 4:56:14 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/12/2012 4:38:38 AM, Composer wrote:
Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: IF you & your popey & other priestly paedophile - homosexual, Nun-raping, rotten fruit producing Cult believe you truly have a Free-Will, they why do you ALL repeatedly need confession?

Surely you would ALL utiliise your (ahem!) Free Will & not repeatedly keep sinning, but you still sin? LOL!

At 10/12/2012 4:56:14 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Because our nature is corrupt,

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Says who?

At 10/12/2012 4:56:14 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
and although our will is technically free,

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: IF it were ' technically Free ' then it is Free technically!

At 10/12/2012 4:56:14 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
we're going to sin because that's the way we are.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Says who?

At 10/12/2012 4:56:14 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
If I put a starving lion in a cage with a lamb, does the lion have free will to not kill and eat the lamb? Probably.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Obviously only a catholic idiot like you would put a starving Lion in a cage with a lamb!

Any rational person would just feed the Lion the cooked lamb OR else kill the Lamb humanely and then feed some raw portions, but from History you narcissistic bastard catholics & your narcissisitic trinitarian god of love (LOL!) love to engage in and initiate a premeditated blood-bath!
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/12/2012 5:55:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/12/2012 5:45:43 AM, Composer wrote:
Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Says who?

Me. Derp.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: IF it were ' technically Free ' then it is Free technically!

Thank you for clarifying that, Captain Obvious.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Says who?

Again, says me. It literally said right above that "AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:", who did you think was saying it?

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Obviously only a catholic idiot like you would put a starving Lion in a cage with a lamb!
Any rational person would just feed the Lion the cooked lamb OR else kill the Lamb humanely and then feed some raw portions, but from History you narcissistic bastard catholics & your narcissisitic trinitarian god of love (LOL!) love to engage in and initiate a premeditated blood-bath!

Yeah, okay, you're not getting the analogy at all.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
THEBOMB
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10/12/2012 7:42:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/11/2012 11:03:28 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 10/11/2012 10:53:21 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 10/11/2012 10:42:22 PM, EvanK wrote:
**First off I would please ask that any religious, especially catholic, bashing be left at the door. I'm not interested in a religious dick waving battle, simply interested in the opinions of others. If you want to suggest other religions, or discuss them here, fine, but please no bashing of Catholics, or telling me Catholicism is nonsense, because I am not interested in discussing it, and will ignore it. Thanks.**


I'm not sure what I believe atm, but I was baptized, although I haven't been confirmed or had confession (thankfully :P) or communion...(long story as to why, don't feel like explaining right now).

But I had a question. If I can't believe in a certain doctrine, can't, not won't, am I going to hell? The specific doctrine I question is prayer (don't we all?) and I can't bring myself to believe in it. And of course, it is a huge part of catholicism. Would I go to hell for not believing, or not praying? By pray, I mean ask for things. Not thanking God, which I do (or try to) every day (even though I'm agnostic, I still thank whatever deity may exist, just in case, I am serious about it though).

I can't make myself believe that if I ask for something enough, I will get it, whether it's a good grade, a job, or that a homeless child that I don't even know gets a meal and a warm shelter. I can't look at the world and say that I believe in any degree of divine intervention. Does this make me damned? Even though I am a good person (or so I am told :P) and even though I am thankful for what I have, will disbelieving damn me?

I ask because the only religion I am drawn to is Catholicism. Something about it, mainly the ritual of the mass, draws me to it, like no other religion. I have experimented as much as I can, but I am only drawn to Catholicism. So for me it's either that or nothing. So what advice can you offer on this subject? I won't ask a priest because I live at home (I'm 17) and if I even hint at bringing this subject up (or any subject even hinting at my religious doubts) my parents would go ape sh!t, especially my Mom (who I love to death, so please don't say I am disrespectful). So asking anyone irl is out of the question, and I was simply interested in DDO's Catholic's opinion.

Thank you! :D

Well...you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church for the answer to your question :P

...Or I can ask other people and save myself time sifting through a bunch of mumbo jumbo! :D

ehh....it's only a couple thousand pages :P besides, any questions you have would be answered, well somewhat.

Advice: go talk to a priest :P
imabench
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10/12/2012 8:34:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/11/2012 10:42:22 PM, EvanK wrote:
**First off I would please ask that any religious, especially catholic, bashing be left at the door. I'm not interested in a religious dick waving battle, simply interested in the opinions of others. If you want to suggest other religions, or discuss them here, fine, but please no bashing of Catholics, or telling me Catholicism is nonsense, because I am not interested in discussing it, and will ignore it. Thanks.**


I'm not sure what I believe atm, but I was baptized, although I haven't been confirmed or had confession (thankfully :P) or communion...(long story as to why, don't feel like explaining right now).

But I had a question. If I can't believe in a certain doctrine, can't, not won't, am I going to hell? The specific doctrine I question is prayer (don't we all?) and I can't bring myself to believe in it. And of course, it is a huge part of catholicism. Would I go to hell for not believing, or not praying? By pray, I mean ask for things. Not thanking God, which I do (or try to) every day (even though I'm agnostic, I still thank whatever deity may exist, just in case, I am serious about it though).

I can't make myself believe that if I ask for something enough, I will get it, whether it's a good grade, a job, or that a homeless child that I don't even know gets a meal and a warm shelter. I can't look at the world and say that I believe in any degree of divine intervention. Does this make me damned? Even though I am a good person (or so I am told :P) and even though I am thankful for what I have, will disbelieving damn me?

I ask because the only religion I am drawn to is Catholicism. Something about it, mainly the ritual of the mass, draws me to it, like no other religion. I have experimented as much as I can, but I am only drawn to Catholicism. So for me it's either that or nothing. So what advice can you offer on this subject? I won't ask a priest because I live at home (I'm 17) and if I even hint at bringing this subject up (or any subject even hinting at my religious doubts) my parents would go ape sh!t, especially my Mom (who I love to death, so please don't say I am disrespectful). So asking anyone irl is out of the question, and I was simply interested in DDO's Catholic's opinion.

Thank you! :D

Ok, that bolded part right there is more then enough to justify you not going to hell assuming youve never killed someone before. Thanking God through prayer rather then asking for stuff through prayer gives you WAAAAAAAAAY better odds of getting into heaven then someone who prays only for stuff and not for thanking God. Thats my opinion regarding that.

As for your ultimate problem, most catholics have a couple of problems with some, not all, not even a majority, just some, of the things they try to preach in Christianity. I myself dont buy into the scriptures describing how the world was created. Like I said, most catholics do have issues with some parts of what Catholicism teaches, but I must say that you are the first ive met whose had a problem with the prayer part.

Heres my Catholic-endorsed opinion on Prayer. Praying for some kind of goods or items is sort of like a Hail Mary pass at the end of a football game. There are many different routes within your power you can take to obtaining whichever thing it is you want, but prayer is sort of the thing you fall back on literally if everything else fails. Like the hail mary pass, Praying for an item is something you do only when you have exhausted all other possibilities yet you really want this thing. Prayer, like the Hail Mary, also works only a fraction of the time, doesnt even work at all for some people, but once in a while that Hail Mary pass actually works. And thats why there is some value in teaching it. ajust dont rely exclusively on prayer for obtaining the goods you want because if you do, then youre screwed
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Dogknox
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10/12/2012 11:31:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/11/2012 10:42:22 PM, EvanK wrote:
**First off I would please ask that any religious, especially catholic, bashing be left at the door. I'm not interested in a religious dick waving battle, simply interested in the opinions of others. If you want to suggest other religions, or discuss them here, fine, but please no bashing of Catholics, or telling me Catholicism is nonsense, because I am not interested in discussing it, and will ignore it. Thanks.**


I'm not sure what I believe atm, but I was baptized, although I haven't been confirmed or had confession (thankfully :P) or communion...(long story as to why, don't feel like explaining right now).

But I had a question. If I can't believe in a certain doctrine, can't, not won't, am I going to hell? The specific doctrine I question is prayer (don't we all?) and I can't bring myself to believe in it. And of course, it is a huge part of catholicism. Would I go to hell for not believing, or not praying? By pray, I mean ask for things. Not thanking God, which I do (or try to) every day (even though I'm agnostic, I still thank whatever deity may exist, just in case, I am serious about it though).

I can't make myself believe that if I ask for something enough, I will get it, whether it's a good grade, a job, or that a homeless child that I don't even know gets a meal and a warm shelter. I can't look at the world and say that I believe in any degree of divine intervention. Does this make me damned? Even though I am a good person (or so I am told :P) and even though I am thankful for what I have, will disbelieving damn me?

I ask because the only religion I am drawn to is Catholicism. Something about it, mainly the ritual of the mass, draws me to it, like no other religion. I have experimented as much as I can, but I am only drawn to Catholicism. So for me it's either that or nothing. So what advice can you offer on this subject? I won't ask a priest because I live at home (I'm 17) and if I even hint at bringing this subject up (or any subject even hinting at my religious doubts) my parents would go ape sh!t, especially my Mom (who I love to death, so please don't say I am disrespectful). So asking anyone irl is out of the question, and I was simply interested in DDO's Catholic's opinion.

Thank you! :D

EvanK The Catholic Church teaches ALL MEN GO TO HEAVEN!!

Jesus died for ALL MEN!! You don't even have to be a Christian to go to heaven in Catholicism!!!

Jesus died for all men so all men are saved.. The Holy Catholic Church teaches "ALL MEN ARE SAVED" if they love!!

EvanK Scriptures say: "GOD IS LOVE"!

EvanK If you have LOVE inside then you have God inside!

A man born in China one thousand years ago.. never having heard of Jesus went to heaven If he LOVED neighbor!

Loving is letting go of self!
1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

&

1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

&

1 John 4:16
And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

DO YOU SEE IT????
EvanK "WHOEVER" means all peoples; In all centuries, not just the years after the PROTEST and the "de-formation"!

The protestant will try to teach you (from outside of scriptures) "Men MUST TAKE JESUS"!!
EvanK They will try to convince you.."You MUST TAKE Jesus are your personal lord and savior.. Say the sinners prayer, to be saved"!

ALL PROTESTANTS.. philochristos included will say.. "No people go to heaven unless they are Christians and have made "Alter Call"!
Some even say.. Only they; Protestant go to heaven!

Catholic's say "All men" go to heaven if they love!

EvanK As far as prayer goes... Try this.. "Ask God for the Holy Spirit"!
Luke 11:5
Then Jesus said to them, "Suppose you have a friend, and you go to him at midnight and say, "Friend, lend me three loaves of bread;
6 a friend of mine on a journey has come to me, and I have no food to offer him."
7 And suppose the one inside answers, "Don"t bother me. The door is already locked, and my children and I are in bed. I can"t get up and give you anything."
8 I tell you, even though he will not get up and give you the bread because of friendship, yet because of your shameless audacity he will surely get up and give you as much as you need.

9 "So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
11 "Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead?
12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion?
13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"


Fact is all you need is the "Holy Spirit" nothing else!!!
You will receive the "Holy Spirit", THEN LOOK OUT.... You will be a different person!
It might happen right now.. but it might be one, two or six months... But you will get the gift!

God bless ....
Dogknox
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10/13/2012 3:54:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/12/2012 11:31:44 AM, Dogknox wrote:
Fact is all you need is the "Holy Spirit" nothing else!!!

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: The JREF is stilllllllllllllllll waiting for those idiots like you to strut their imagined h-s stuff there!

We know you are idiots & liars because we exposed and proved those that ALL that came before you are equally liars & frauds! (IF you ever grow a back-bone & actually get there? LOL!)