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This just depresses me.

MouthWash
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10/15/2012 11:53:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
[http://www.jpost.com...]

And please, most Orthodox Jews aren't Haredim or fanatics. If you can't resist attacking Judaism or Israel, then kindly don't post at all.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/15/2012 12:39:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 12:31:47 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Who gives a fvck?

I do.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Zaradi
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10/15/2012 12:47:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 12:39:59 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/15/2012 12:31:47 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Who gives a fvck?

I do.

http://i.imgur.com...
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
CrazyPerson
Posts: 1,114
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10/15/2012 1:22:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Arentcha glad we aint so stupid?
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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10/15/2012 1:30:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
From article in OP's link:

"Anyone who doubts his rabbi is as if he doubts the divine presence," the announcement concluded darkly.

In recent months, a host of senior haredi rabbis have issued harsh denunciations of smartphones and iPhones in particular...

In February of this year, the radical Eda Haredit communal organization put up notices around Jerusalem"s Mea She"arim neighborhood banning the iPhone, Android smartphone, BlackBerry and similar devices, declaring that they have brought a "spiritual holocaust" and "seriously endanger the holiness of the House of Israel."

In September, a Bnei Brak rabbi held a ritual iPhone smashing ceremony and later that month Rabbi Haim Kanievsky, one of the five most influential rabbinic authorities in the country, issued a public notice in the haredi media calling on anyone who owns the iPhone to burn it.

The rabbinic leadership of the haredi world has objected strongly to smartphones because of the ready access they provide to unfiltered Internet content, including pornography and sources of information beyond the strict confines of the haredi world.

So...the thing itself is evil...not men's use of it?
They are one step away from calling anyone who owns a smart phone a witch and you know what comes next...

It's a high tech biblioclasm...
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/15/2012 2:12:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
But really, What's the Difference Between a Yam and a Sweet Potato?
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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10/15/2012 2:22:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 1:30:38 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
From article in OP's link:

"Anyone who doubts his rabbi is as if he doubts the divine presence," the announcement concluded darkly.

In recent months, a host of senior haredi rabbis have issued harsh denunciations of smartphones and iPhones in particular...

In February of this year, the radical Eda Haredit communal organization put up notices around Jerusalem"s Mea She"arim neighborhood banning the iPhone, Android smartphone, BlackBerry and similar devices, declaring that they have brought a "spiritual holocaust" and "seriously endanger the holiness of the House of Israel."


In September, a Bnei Brak rabbi held a ritual iPhone smashing ceremony and later that month Rabbi Haim Kanievsky, one of the five most influential rabbinic authorities in the country, issued a public notice in the haredi media calling on anyone who owns the iPhone to burn it.

The rabbinic leadership of the haredi world has objected strongly to smartphones because of the ready access they provide to unfiltered Internet content, including pornography and sources of information beyond the strict confines of the haredi world.


So...the thing itself is evil...not men's use of it?
They are one step away from calling anyone who owns a smart phone a witch and you know what comes next...

It's a high tech biblioclasm...

Something that tempts someone to do wrong should be avoided according to Judaism. There are limits, of course, but the Haredim need strict laws on intellectual resources because someone, God forbid, might get their own ideas about how the world works. Their rules are akin to banning all sharp objects because someone might be tempted to harm someone else with them. It functions a bit like a cult.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Archistrategos
Posts: 602
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10/15/2012 2:58:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 2:22:57 PM, MouthWash wrote:
Something that tempts someone to do wrong should be avoided according to Judaism. There are limits, of course, but the Haredim need strict laws on intellectual resources because someone, God forbid, might get their own ideas about how the world works. Their rules are akin to banning all sharp objects because someone might be tempted to harm someone else with them. It functions a bit like a cult.

Avoidance is one step away from ignore-ance.

Cult indeed and thought.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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10/15/2012 4:17:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Technology can be used for good, as well as evil purposes. I think that banning these things just drives a wedge between a belief system and potential converts, as well as current followers. Technology in communication is going to happen in this world and religious leaders should allow God to decide who is using it for what purpose. Just my humble opinion.
Chicken
Posts: 1,296
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10/15/2012 4:19:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 12:31:47 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Who gives a fvck?
Disciple of Koopin
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MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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10/15/2012 4:40:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 4:17:07 PM, medic0506 wrote:
Technology can be used for good, as well as evil purposes. I think that banning these things just drives a wedge between a belief system and potential converts, as well as current followers. Technology in communication is going to happen in this world and religious leaders should allow God to decide who is using it for what purpose. Just my humble opinion.

What do you mean "potential converts?" Jews don't seek to convert people to their own faith.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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10/15/2012 4:42:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 12:31:47 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Who gives a fvck?

You didn't have to click on the thread. Other people seem to be interested in this, so kindly shove off, before your trolling drives away those who actually want a productive conversation.

And I notice you don't do this to anyone else.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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10/15/2012 4:45:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 11:53:27 AM, MouthWash wrote:
[http://www.jpost.com...]

And please, most Orthodox Jews aren't Haredim or fanatics. If you can't resist attacking Judaism or Israel, then kindly don't post at all.

It's simply another example that the Law cannot cure corrupt flesh, it only exposes it's insanity..

We must be born spiritually; be born again..
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
truthseeker613
Posts: 464
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10/15/2012 4:47:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 11:53:27 AM, MouthWash wrote:
[http://www.jpost.com...]

And please, most Orthodox Jews aren't Haredim or fanatics. If you can't resist attacking Judaism or Israel, then kindly don't post at all.

I grew up in that world, and understand were they are coming from even if I don't agree with it %100.

What exactly wrong with telling their followers not to use these objects?

It's certainly not worse than the Amish. I've never heard anyone criticize them.
http://www.nydailynews.com...

royalpaladin: I'd rather support people who kill spies than a nation that organizes assassination squads (Kidon) to illegally enter into other nations and kill anybody who is not a Zionist. Who knows when they'll kill me for the crime of not supporting Israel?

Koopin: LOL! I just imagine Royal sitting in here apartment at night, when suddenly she hears a man outside speaking Hebrew as sh
medic0506
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10/15/2012 5:03:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 4:40:00 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 4:17:07 PM, medic0506 wrote:
Technology can be used for good, as well as evil purposes. I think that banning these things just drives a wedge between a belief system and potential converts, as well as current followers. Technology in communication is going to happen in this world and religious leaders should allow God to decide who is using it for what purpose. Just my humble opinion.

What do you mean "potential converts?" Jews don't seek to convert people to their own faith.

From the article...

""[Regarding] that which fools ask out of ignorance, "How is it that Rabbi Amnon Yitzhak has an iPhone?" " the leader of the generation, Rabbi Aharon Leib Shteinman, personally permitted the use of an iPhone by the rabbi and his staff for the purposes of bringing people back to Judaism," the notice read."
MouthWash
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10/15/2012 5:06:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 4:45:29 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 10/15/2012 11:53:27 AM, MouthWash wrote:
[http://www.jpost.com...]

And please, most Orthodox Jews aren't Haredim or fanatics. If you can't resist attacking Judaism or Israel, then kindly don't post at all.

It's simply another example that the Law cannot cure corrupt flesh, it only exposes it's insanity..

We must be born spiritually; be born again..

ACCEPT JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESUS OR GO 2 HELL!!!
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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10/15/2012 5:09:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 5:03:58 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 10/15/2012 4:40:00 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 4:17:07 PM, medic0506 wrote:
Technology can be used for good, as well as evil purposes. I think that banning these things just drives a wedge between a belief system and potential converts, as well as current followers. Technology in communication is going to happen in this world and religious leaders should allow God to decide who is using it for what purpose. Just my humble opinion.

What do you mean "potential converts?" Jews don't seek to convert people to their own faith.

From the article...

""[Regarding] that which fools ask out of ignorance, "How is it that Rabbi Amnon Yitzhak has an iPhone?" " the leader of the generation, Rabbi Aharon Leib Shteinman, personally permitted the use of an iPhone by the rabbi and his staff for the purposes of bringing people back to Judaism," the notice read."

Lol. He's referring to other Jews. They try to get Reform and Conservative Jews to become more religious. Proselytizing to non-Jews is forbidden.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
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10/15/2012 5:17:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 4:42:47 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 12:31:47 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Who gives a fvck?

You didn't have to click on the thread. Other people seem to be interested in this, so kindly shove off, before your trolling drives away those who actually want a productive conversation.

Talk about a contradiction. How would you know people are interested if my trolling is driving them off? If anything my trolling has had no effect.

And I notice you don't do this to anyone else.

Oh please. Grow up a little.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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10/15/2012 5:19:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 5:17:58 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 10/15/2012 4:42:47 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 12:31:47 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Who gives a fvck?

You didn't have to click on the thread. Other people seem to be interested in this, so kindly shove off, before your trolling drives away those who actually want a productive conversation.

Talk about a contradiction. How would you know people are interested if my trolling is driving them off? If anything my trolling has had no effect.

And I notice you don't do this to anyone else.

Oh please. Grow up a little.

I said, "before." And I repeat myself: you didn't have to click on the thread.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
truthseeker613
Posts: 464
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10/15/2012 5:19:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 2:22:57 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 1:30:38 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
From article in OP's link:

"Anyone who doubts his rabbi is as if he doubts the divine presence," the announcement concluded darkly.

In recent months, a host of senior haredi rabbis have issued harsh denunciations of smartphones and iPhones in particular...

In February of this year, the radical Eda Haredit communal organization put up notices around Jerusalem"s Mea She"arim neighborhood banning the iPhone, Android smartphone, BlackBerry and similar devices, declaring that they have brought a "spiritual holocaust" and "seriously endanger the holiness of the House of Israel."


In September, a Bnei Brak rabbi held a ritual iPhone smashing ceremony and later that month Rabbi Haim Kanievsky, one of the five most influential rabbinic authorities in the country, issued a public notice in the haredi media calling on anyone who owns the iPhone to burn it.

The rabbinic leadership of the haredi world has objected strongly to smartphones because of the ready access they provide to unfiltered Internet content, including pornography and sources of information beyond the strict confines of the haredi world.


So...the thing itself is evil...not men's use of it?
They are one step away from calling anyone who owns a smart phone a witch and you know what comes next...

It's a high tech biblioclasm...

Something that tempts someone to do wrong should be avoided according to Judaism. There are limits, of course, but the Haredim need strict laws on intellectual resources because someone, God forbid, might get their own ideas about how the world works. Their rules are akin to banning all sharp objects because someone might be tempted to harm someone else with them. It functions a bit like a cult.

(I use the same example of "sharp objects" when I make this case.)

Devils advocate:
Many societies restrict literature. For example I was recently speaking to a German. In the course of conversation he mentioned "mien compf" is banned in Germany. I see no problem with that.
In the U.S. (and many others) hate speech & literature is banned, as well as communist propaganda (maybe not any more, but when it was a threat it was.)
Literature is banned when it is false and harmful. This community considers certain ideas to be false and harmful, and so they ban access.

With regard to the knife analogy 2 important differences can be made:
a) Knifes are an essential part of life. These objects are not essential for most of these people yet. As it becomes more essential you will see the bans drop, and improvising for safe usage take over as is already happening in many charadi circles particularly in the U.S.

b) Its not the object that is dangerous but rather the ay it's used.
Knifes are not so dangerous because most people do not desire to kill people with it, and even amongst those that do, very few will carry it out. Not so with the internet were human desire plays a very strong role.
http://www.nydailynews.com...

royalpaladin: I'd rather support people who kill spies than a nation that organizes assassination squads (Kidon) to illegally enter into other nations and kill anybody who is not a Zionist. Who knows when they'll kill me for the crime of not supporting Israel?

Koopin: LOL! I just imagine Royal sitting in here apartment at night, when suddenly she hears a man outside speaking Hebrew as sh
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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10/15/2012 5:19:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 5:09:26 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 5:03:58 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 10/15/2012 4:40:00 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 4:17:07 PM, medic0506 wrote:
Technology can be used for good, as well as evil purposes. I think that banning these things just drives a wedge between a belief system and potential converts, as well as current followers. Technology in communication is going to happen in this world and religious leaders should allow God to decide who is using it for what purpose. Just my humble opinion.

What do you mean "potential converts?" Jews don't seek to convert people to their own faith.

From the article...

""[Regarding] that which fools ask out of ignorance, "How is it that Rabbi Amnon Yitzhak has an iPhone?" " the leader of the generation, Rabbi Aharon Leib Shteinman, personally permitted the use of an iPhone by the rabbi and his staff for the purposes of bringing people back to Judaism," the notice read."

Lol. He's referring to other Jews. They try to get Reform and Conservative Jews to become more religious. Proselytizing to non-Jews is forbidden.

I understand that but if they currently aren't following the religion, then they start, that would be considered a convert. When I made my comment I was speaking more generally anyway, not just talking about Jews.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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10/15/2012 5:21:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 5:19:22 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 10/15/2012 5:09:26 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 5:03:58 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 10/15/2012 4:40:00 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 4:17:07 PM, medic0506 wrote:
Technology can be used for good, as well as evil purposes. I think that banning these things just drives a wedge between a belief system and potential converts, as well as current followers. Technology in communication is going to happen in this world and religious leaders should allow God to decide who is using it for what purpose. Just my humble opinion.

What do you mean "potential converts?" Jews don't seek to convert people to their own faith.

From the article...

""[Regarding] that which fools ask out of ignorance, "How is it that Rabbi Amnon Yitzhak has an iPhone?" " the leader of the generation, Rabbi Aharon Leib Shteinman, personally permitted the use of an iPhone by the rabbi and his staff for the purposes of bringing people back to Judaism," the notice read."

Lol. He's referring to other Jews. They try to get Reform and Conservative Jews to become more religious. Proselytizing to non-Jews is forbidden.

I understand that but if they currently aren't following the religion, then they start, that would be considered a convert. When I made my comment I was speaking more generally anyway, not just talking about Jews.

No, they wouldn't be. Even atheist Jews consider themselves Jewish. Judaism is a culture as well as a religion.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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10/15/2012 5:24:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 5:19:14 PM, truthseeker613 wrote:
At 10/15/2012 2:22:57 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 1:30:38 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
From article in OP's link:

"Anyone who doubts his rabbi is as if he doubts the divine presence," the announcement concluded darkly.

In recent months, a host of senior haredi rabbis have issued harsh denunciations of smartphones and iPhones in particular...

In February of this year, the radical Eda Haredit communal organization put up notices around Jerusalem"s Mea She"arim neighborhood banning the iPhone, Android smartphone, BlackBerry and similar devices, declaring that they have brought a "spiritual holocaust" and "seriously endanger the holiness of the House of Israel."


In September, a Bnei Brak rabbi held a ritual iPhone smashing ceremony and later that month Rabbi Haim Kanievsky, one of the five most influential rabbinic authorities in the country, issued a public notice in the haredi media calling on anyone who owns the iPhone to burn it.

The rabbinic leadership of the haredi world has objected strongly to smartphones because of the ready access they provide to unfiltered Internet content, including pornography and sources of information beyond the strict confines of the haredi world.


So...the thing itself is evil...not men's use of it?
They are one step away from calling anyone who owns a smart phone a witch and you know what comes next...

It's a high tech biblioclasm...

Something that tempts someone to do wrong should be avoided according to Judaism. There are limits, of course, but the Haredim need strict laws on intellectual resources because someone, God forbid, might get their own ideas about how the world works. Their rules are akin to banning all sharp objects because someone might be tempted to harm someone else with them. It functions a bit like a cult.

(I use the same example of "sharp objects" when I make this case.)

Devils advocate:
Many societies restrict literature. For example I was recently speaking to a German. In the course of conversation he mentioned "mien compf" is banned in Germany. I see no problem with that.
In the U.S. (and many others) hate speech & literature is banned, as well as communist propaganda (maybe not any more, but when it was a threat it was.)
Literature is banned when it is false and harmful. This community considers certain ideas to be false and harmful, and so they ban access.

With regard to the knife analogy 2 important differences can be made:
a) Knifes are an essential part of life. These objects are not essential for most of these people yet. As it becomes more essential you will see the bans drop, and improvising for safe usage take over as is already happening in many charadi circles particularly in the U.S.

b) Its not the object that is dangerous but rather the ay it's used.
Knifes are not so dangerous because most people do not desire to kill people with it, and even amongst those that do, very few will carry it out. Not so with the internet were human desire plays a very strong role.

If you're referring to pornography, I think it would be fairly easy for them to simply filter out those sites at all of the religious Wi-Fi providers. They don't want people learning about evolution, corruption among Rabbis, or other "heretical" ideas (I love how he compared the Rabbis' word to God's).
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
truthseeker613
Posts: 464
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10/15/2012 5:38:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 5:24:07 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 5:19:14 PM, truthseeker613 wrote:
At 10/15/2012 2:22:57 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 1:30:38 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
From article in OP's link:

"Anyone who doubts his rabbi is as if he doubts the divine presence," the announcement concluded darkly.

In recent months, a host of senior haredi rabbis have issued harsh denunciations of smartphones and iPhones in particular...

In February of this year, the radical Eda Haredit communal organization put up notices around Jerusalem"s Mea She"arim neighborhood banning the iPhone, Android smartphone, BlackBerry and similar devices, declaring that they have brought a "spiritual holocaust" and "seriously endanger the holiness of the House of Israel."


In September, a Bnei Brak rabbi held a ritual iPhone smashing ceremony and later that month Rabbi Haim Kanievsky, one of the five most influential rabbinic authorities in the country, issued a public notice in the haredi media calling on anyone who owns the iPhone to burn it.

The rabbinic leadership of the haredi world has objected strongly to smartphones because of the ready access they provide to unfiltered Internet content, including pornography and sources of information beyond the strict confines of the haredi world.


So...the thing itself is evil...not men's use of it?
They are one step away from calling anyone who owns a smart phone a witch and you know what comes next...

It's a high tech biblioclasm...

Something that tempts someone to do wrong should be avoided according to Judaism. There are limits, of course, but the Haredim need strict laws on intellectual resources because someone, God forbid, might get their own ideas about how the world works. Their rules are akin to banning all sharp objects because someone might be tempted to harm someone else with them. It functions a bit like a cult.

(I use the same example of "sharp objects" when I make this case.)

Devils advocate:
Many societies restrict literature. For example I was recently speaking to a German. In the course of conversation he mentioned "mien compf" is banned in Germany. I see no problem with that.
In the U.S. (and many others) hate speech & literature is banned, as well as communist propaganda (maybe not any more, but when it was a threat it was.)
Literature is banned when it is false and harmful. This community considers certain ideas to be false and harmful, and so they ban access.

With regard to the knife analogy 2 important differences can be made:
a) Knifes are an essential part of life. These objects are not essential for most of these people yet. As it becomes more essential you will see the bans drop, and improvising for safe usage take over as is already happening in many charadi circles particularly in the U.S.

b) Its not the object that is dangerous but rather the ay it's used.
Knifes are not so dangerous because most people do not desire to kill people with it, and even amongst those that do, very few will carry it out. Not so with the internet were human desire plays a very strong role.

If you're referring to pornography, I think it would be fairly easy for them to simply filter out those sites at all of the religious Wi-Fi providers. They don't want people learning about evolution, corruption among Rabbis, or other "heretical" ideas (I love how he compared the Rabbis' word to God's).

Regarding pornography:
There aren't really any good filters. I have K9 and it's far from perfect, it blocks sites that are OK, and allows some of what"s not. The charadim just came out with a new filter called "Netiv", which supposedly cleans the site instead of blocking it, but I haven"t tried it yet.

Regarding the blocking of information:
Many societies restrict literature.
For example I was recently speaking to a German. In the course of conversation he mentioned "mien compf" is banned in Germany. I see no problem with that.
In the U.S. (and many others) hate speech & literature is banned, as well as communist propaganda (maybe not any more, but when it was a threat it was.)
Literature is banned when it is false and harmful.
This community considers certain ideas to be false and harmful, and so they ban access to them.
http://www.nydailynews.com...

royalpaladin: I'd rather support people who kill spies than a nation that organizes assassination squads (Kidon) to illegally enter into other nations and kill anybody who is not a Zionist. Who knows when they'll kill me for the crime of not supporting Israel?

Koopin: LOL! I just imagine Royal sitting in here apartment at night, when suddenly she hears a man outside speaking Hebrew as sh
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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10/15/2012 6:55:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 5:38:24 PM, truthseeker613 wrote:
At 10/15/2012 5:24:07 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 5:19:14 PM, truthseeker613 wrote:
At 10/15/2012 2:22:57 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 1:30:38 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
From article in OP's link:

"Anyone who doubts his rabbi is as if he doubts the divine presence," the announcement concluded darkly.

In recent months, a host of senior haredi rabbis have issued harsh denunciations of smartphones and iPhones in particular...

In February of this year, the radical Eda Haredit communal organization put up notices around Jerusalem"s Mea She"arim neighborhood banning the iPhone, Android smartphone, BlackBerry and similar devices, declaring that they have brought a "spiritual holocaust" and "seriously endanger the holiness of the House of Israel."


In September, a Bnei Brak rabbi held a ritual iPhone smashing ceremony and later that month Rabbi Haim Kanievsky, one of the five most influential rabbinic authorities in the country, issued a public notice in the haredi media calling on anyone who owns the iPhone to burn it.

The rabbinic leadership of the haredi world has objected strongly to smartphones because of the ready access they provide to unfiltered Internet content, including pornography and sources of information beyond the strict confines of the haredi world.


So...the thing itself is evil...not men's use of it?
They are one step away from calling anyone who owns a smart phone a witch and you know what comes next...

It's a high tech biblioclasm...

Something that tempts someone to do wrong should be avoided according to Judaism. There are limits, of course, but the Haredim need strict laws on intellectual resources because someone, God forbid, might get their own ideas about how the world works. Their rules are akin to banning all sharp objects because someone might be tempted to harm someone else with them. It functions a bit like a cult.

(I use the same example of "sharp objects" when I make this case.)

Devils advocate:
Many societies restrict literature. For example I was recently speaking to a German. In the course of conversation he mentioned "mien compf" is banned in Germany. I see no problem with that.
In the U.S. (and many others) hate speech & literature is banned, as well as communist propaganda (maybe not any more, but when it was a threat it was.)
Literature is banned when it is false and harmful. This community considers certain ideas to be false and harmful, and so they ban access.

With regard to the knife analogy 2 important differences can be made:
a) Knifes are an essential part of life. These objects are not essential for most of these people yet. As it becomes more essential you will see the bans drop, and improvising for safe usage take over as is already happening in many charadi circles particularly in the U.S.

b) Its not the object that is dangerous but rather the ay it's used.
Knifes are not so dangerous because most people do not desire to kill people with it, and even amongst those that do, very few will carry it out. Not so with the internet were human desire plays a very strong role.

If you're referring to pornography, I think it would be fairly easy for them to simply filter out those sites at all of the religious Wi-Fi providers. They don't want people learning about evolution, corruption among Rabbis, or other "heretical" ideas (I love how he compared the Rabbis' word to God's).

Regarding pornography:
There aren't really any good filters. I have K9 and it's far from perfect, it blocks sites that are OK, and allows some of what"s not. The charadim just came out with a new filter called "Netiv", which supposedly cleans the site instead of blocking it, but I haven"t tried it yet.

No, they could simply block all websites and manually approve anything which can be proven to be pornography free. Slow but effective, and they have years.

Regarding the blocking of information:
Many societies restrict literature.
For example I was recently speaking to a German. In the course of conversation he mentioned "mien compf" is banned in Germany. I see no problem with that.
In the U.S. (and many others) hate speech & literature is banned, as well as communist propaganda (maybe not any more, but when it was a threat it was.)
Literature is banned when it is false and harmful.
This community considers certain ideas to be false and harmful, and so they ban access to them.

I see. Evolution + non-Jewish ideas + anything that puts the rabbis in a negative light = harmful.

Guess the Nazis had the right idea with their book burnings, hmmmm?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
truthseeker613
Posts: 464
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10/15/2012 7:27:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 6:55:16 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 5:38:24 PM, truthseeker613 wrote:
At 10/15/2012 5:24:07 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 5:19:14 PM, truthseeker613 wrote:
At 10/15/2012 2:22:57 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 1:30:38 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
From article in OP's link:

"Anyone who doubts his rabbi is as if he doubts the divine presence," the announcement concluded darkly.

In recent months, a host of senior haredi rabbis have issued harsh denunciations of smartphones and iPhones in particular...

In February of this year, the radical Eda Haredi communal organization put up notices around Jerusalem"s Mea She"arim neighborhood banning the iPhone, Android smartphone, BlackBerry and similar devices, declaring that they have brought a "spiritual holocaust" and "seriously endanger the holiness of the House of Israel."


In September, a Bnei Brak rabbi held a ritual iPhone smashing ceremony and later that month Rabbi Haim Kanievsky, one of the five most influential rabbinic authorities in the country, issued a public notice in the haredi media calling on anyone who owns the iPhone to burn it.

The rabbinic leadership of the haredi world has objected strongly to smartphones because of the ready access they provide to unfiltered Internet content, including pornography and sources of information beyond the strict confines of the haredi world.


So...the thing itself is evil...not men's use of it?
They are one step away from calling anyone who owns a smart phone a witch and you know what comes next...

It's a high tech biblioclasm...

Something that tempts someone to do wrong should be avoided according to Judaism. There are limits, of course, but the Haredim need strict laws on intellectual resources because someone, God forbid, might get their own ideas about how the world works. Their rules are akin to banning all sharp objects because someone might be tempted to harm someone else with them. It functions a bit like a cult.

(I use the same example of "sharp objects" when I make this case.)

Devils advocate:
Many societies restrict literature. For example I was recently speaking to a German. In the course of conversation he mentioned "mien compf" is banned in Germany. I see no problem with that.
In the U.S. (and many others) hate speech & literature is banned, as well as communist propaganda (maybe not any more, but when it was a threat it was.)
Literature is banned when it is false and harmful. This community considers certain ideas to be false and harmful, and so they ban access.

With regard to the knife analogy 2 important differences can be made:
a) Knifes are an essential part of life. These objects are not essential for most of these people yet. As it becomes more essential you will see the bans drop, and improvising for safe usage take over as is already happening in many charadi circles particularly in the U.S.

b) Its not the object that is dangerous but rather the ay it's used.
Knifes are not so dangerous because most people do not desire to kill people with it, and even amongst those that do, very few will carry it out. Not so with the Internet were human desire plays a very strong role.

If you're referring to pornography, I think it would be fairly easy for them to simply filter out those sites at all of the religious Wi-Fi providers. They don't want people learning about evolution, corruption among Rabbis, or other "heretical" ideas (I love how he compared the Rabbis' word to God's).

Regarding pornography:
There aren't really any good filters. I have K9 and it's far from perfect, it blocks sites that are OK, and allows some of what"s not. The charadim just came out with a new filter called "Netiv", which supposedly cleans the site instead of blocking it, but I haven"t tried it yet.

No, they could simply block all websites and manually approve anything which can be proved to be pornography free. Slow but effective, and they have years.

Not that simple for people who don't have technological know how.
These things take time. I am confident they will eventually come around.
Almost all rabbis who have any tech know how say white lists are fine.
Regarding the blocking of information:
Many societies restrict literature.
For example I was recently speaking to a German. In the course of conversation he mentioned "mien compf" is banned in Germany. I see no problem with that.
In the U.S. (and many others) hate speech & literature is banned, as well as communist propaganda (maybe not any more, but when it was a threat it was.)
Literature is banned when it is false and harmful.
This community considers certain ideas to be false and harmful, and so they ban access to them.

I see. Evolution + non-Jewish ideas + anything that puts the rabbis in a negative light = harmful.

Indeed, they do believe that such things are false & harmful, is their anything wrong with that.

Guess the Nazis had the right idea with their book burnings, hmmmm?

Unfair comparison. All that happened is that leaders of certain communities told their adherents their views on certain matters. Nothing wrong with that.
No one is taking anything from others against their will.
No one is even imposing their views on others.
What they say is for their adherents, anyone who wants can find themselves another group which is more tolerant. No one is stopping them.
http://www.nydailynews.com...

royalpaladin: I'd rather support people who kill spies than a nation that organizes assassination squads (Kidon) to illegally enter into other nations and kill anybody who is not a Zionist. Who knows when they'll kill me for the crime of not supporting Israel?

Koopin: LOL! I just imagine Royal sitting in here apartment at night, when suddenly she hears a man outside speaking Hebrew as sh
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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10/15/2012 7:44:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 7:27:49 PM, truthseeker613 wrote:
At 10/15/2012 6:55:16 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 5:38:24 PM, truthseeker613 wrote:
At 10/15/2012 5:24:07 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 5:19:14 PM, truthseeker613 wrote:
At 10/15/2012 2:22:57 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 1:30:38 PM, Archistrategos wrote:
From article in OP's link:

"Anyone who doubts his rabbi is as if he doubts the divine presence," the announcement concluded darkly.

In recent months, a host of senior haredi rabbis have issued harsh denunciations of smartphones and iPhones in particular...

In February of this year, the radical Eda Haredi communal organization put up notices around Jerusalem"s Mea She"arim neighborhood banning the iPhone, Android smartphone, BlackBerry and similar devices, declaring that they have brought a "spiritual holocaust" and "seriously endanger the holiness of the House of Israel."


In September, a Bnei Brak rabbi held a ritual iPhone smashing ceremony and later that month Rabbi Haim Kanievsky, one of the five most influential rabbinic authorities in the country, issued a public notice in the haredi media calling on anyone who owns the iPhone to burn it.

The rabbinic leadership of the haredi world has objected strongly to smartphones because of the ready access they provide to unfiltered Internet content, including pornography and sources of information beyond the strict confines of the haredi world.


So...the thing itself is evil...not men's use of it?
They are one step away from calling anyone who owns a smart phone a witch and you know what comes next...

It's a high tech biblioclasm...

Something that tempts someone to do wrong should be avoided according to Judaism. There are limits, of course, but the Haredim need strict laws on intellectual resources because someone, God forbid, might get their own ideas about how the world works. Their rules are akin to banning all sharp objects because someone might be tempted to harm someone else with them. It functions a bit like a cult.

(I use the same example of "sharp objects" when I make this case.)

Devils advocate:
Many societies restrict literature. For example I was recently speaking to a German. In the course of conversation he mentioned "mien compf" is banned in Germany. I see no problem with that.
In the U.S. (and many others) hate speech & literature is banned, as well as communist propaganda (maybe not any more, but when it was a threat it was.)
Literature is banned when it is false and harmful. This community considers certain ideas to be false and harmful, and so they ban access.

With regard to the knife analogy 2 important differences can be made:
a) Knifes are an essential part of life. These objects are not essential for most of these people yet. As it becomes more essential you will see the bans drop, and improvising for safe usage take over as is already happening in many charadi circles particularly in the U.S.

b) Its not the object that is dangerous but rather the ay it's used.
Knifes are not so dangerous because most people do not desire to kill people with it, and even amongst those that do, very few will carry it out. Not so with the Internet were human desire plays a very strong role.

If you're referring to pornography, I think it would be fairly easy for them to simply filter out those sites at all of the religious Wi-Fi providers. They don't want people learning about evolution, corruption among Rabbis, or other "heretical" ideas (I love how he compared the Rabbis' word to God's).

Regarding pornography:
There aren't really any good filters. I have K9 and it's far from perfect, it blocks sites that are OK, and allows some of what"s not. The charadim just came out with a new filter called "Netiv", which supposedly cleans the site instead of blocking it, but I haven"t tried it yet.

No, they could simply block all websites and manually approve anything which can be proved to be pornography free. Slow but effective, and they have years.

Not that simple for people who don't have technological know how.
These things take time. I am confident they will eventually come around.
Almost all rabbis who have any tech know how say white lists are fine.

No, they won't. They still don't even use the Internet or watch TV.

Regarding the blocking of information:
Many societies restrict literature.
For example I was recently speaking to a German. In the course of conversation he mentioned "mien compf" is banned in Germany. I see no problem with that.
In the U.S. (and many others) hate speech & literature is banned, as well as communist propaganda (maybe not any more, but when it was a threat it was.)
Literature is banned when it is false and harmful.
This community considers certain ideas to be false and harmful, and so they ban access to them.

I see. Evolution + non-Jewish ideas + anything that puts the rabbis in a negative light = harmful.

Indeed, they do believe that such things are false & harmful, is their anything wrong with that.

I'd imagine there is.

Guess the Nazis had the right idea with their book burnings, hmmmm?

Unfair comparison. All that happened is that leaders of certain communities told their adherents their views on certain matters. Nothing wrong with that.
No one is taking anything from others against their will.
No one is even imposing their views on others.
What they say is for their adherents, anyone who wants can find themselves another group which is more tolerant. No one is stopping them.

Cults don't force people to join. Should we therefore tolerate cults?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
truthseeker613
Posts: 464
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10/15/2012 9:11:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 7:44:41 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 7:27:49 PM, truthseeker613 wrote:
At 10/15/2012 6:55:16 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 5:38:24 PM, truthseeker613 wrote:
At 10/15/2012 5:24:07 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 5:19:14 PM, truthseeker613 wrote:
At 10/15/2012 2:22:57 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 1:30:38 PM, Archistrategos wrote:


(I use the same example of "sharp objects" when I make this case.)

Devils advocate:
Many societies restrict literature. For example I was recently speaking to a German. In the course of conversation he mentioned "mien compf" is banned in Germany. I see no problem with that.
In the U.S. (and many others) hate speech & literature is banned, as well as communist propaganda (maybe not any more, but when it was a threat it was.)
Literature is banned when it is false and harmful. This community considers certain ideas to be false and harmful, and so they ban access.

With regard to the knife analogy 2 important differences can be made:
a) Knifes are an essential part of life. These objects are not essential for most of these people yet. As it becomes more essential you will see the bans drop, and improvising for safe usage take over as is already happening in many charadi circles particularly in the U.S.

b) Its not the object that is dangerous but rather the ay it's used.
Knifes are not so dangerous because most people do not desire to kill people with it, and even amongst those that do, very few will carry it out. Not so with the Internet were human desire plays a very strong role.

If you're referring to pornography, I think it would be fairly easy for them to simply filter out those sites at all of the religious Wi-Fi providers. They don't want people learning about evolution, corruption among Rabbis, or other "heretical" ideas (I love how he compared the Rabbis' word to God's).

Regarding pornography:
There aren't really any good filters. I have K9 and it's far from perfect, it blocks sites that are OK, and allows some of what"s not. The charadim just came out with a new filter called "Netiv", which supposedly cleans the site instead of blocking it, but I haven"t tried it yet.

No, they could simply block all websites and manually approve anything which can be proved to be pornography free. Slow but effective, and they have years.

Not that simple for people who don't have technological know how.
These things take time. I am confident they will eventually come around.
Almost all rabbis who have any tech know how say white lists are fine.

No, they won't. They still don't even use the Internet or watch TV.

Internet is what we are discussing now.
TV has never become a necessary (or even important) part of life at all.
(Indeed there are many who consider TV to be a negative thing for societal reasons.)

Regarding the blocking of information:
Many societies restrict literature.
For example I was recently speaking to a German. In the course of conversation he mentioned "mien compf" is banned in Germany. I see no problem with that.
In the U.S. (and many others) hate speech & literature is banned, as well as communist propaganda (maybe not any more, but when it was a threat it was.)
Literature is banned when it is false and harmful.
This community considers certain ideas to be false and harmful, and so they ban access to them.

I see. Evolution + non-Jewish ideas + anything that puts the rabbis in a negative light = harmful.

Indeed, they do believe that such things are false & harmful, is their anything wrong with that.

I'd imagine there is.
When I say "is there anything wrong with that?" I don't mean whether it's true or not. I mean to say that there is nothing morally/ethically wrong with such a belief.

Guess the Nazis had the right idea with their book burnings, hmmmm?

Unfair comparison. All that happened is that leaders of certain communities told their adherents their views on certain matters. Nothing wrong with that.
No one is taking anything from others against their will.
No one is even imposing their views on others.
What they say is for their adherents, anyone who wants can find themselves another group which is more tolerant. No one is stopping them.

Cults don't force people to join. Should we therefore tolerate cults?

Lets clarify what is bad about cults:

1)Cults are started by people who knowingly & intentionally lie for personal gain.

2)Cult leaders take advantage and cause harm to their members.

Why does no one criticize the Amish?

http://abcnews.go.com...
http://www.religioustolerance.org...
http://www.nydailynews.com...

royalpaladin: I'd rather support people who kill spies than a nation that organizes assassination squads (Kidon) to illegally enter into other nations and kill anybody who is not a Zionist. Who knows when they'll kill me for the crime of not supporting Israel?

Koopin: LOL! I just imagine Royal sitting in here apartment at night, when suddenly she hears a man outside speaking Hebrew as sh
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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10/15/2012 9:35:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/15/2012 5:09:26 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 5:03:58 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 10/15/2012 4:40:00 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/15/2012 4:17:07 PM, medic0506 wrote:
Technology can be used for good, as well as evil purposes. I think that banning these things just drives a wedge between a belief system and potential converts, as well as current followers. Technology in communication is going to happen in this world and religious leaders should allow God to decide who is using it for what purpose. Just my humble opinion.

What do you mean "potential converts?" Jews don't seek to convert people to their own faith.

From the article...

""[Regarding] that which fools ask out of ignorance, "How is it that Rabbi Amnon Yitzhak has an iPhone?" " the leader of the generation, Rabbi Aharon Leib Shteinman, personally permitted the use of an iPhone by the rabbi and his staff for the purposes of bringing people back to Judaism," the notice read."

Lol. He's referring to other Jews. They try to get Reform and Conservative Jews to become more religious. Proselytizing to non-Jews is forbidden.

Ya, because non-jews (commonly referred to as goyim or areylim, which means those who have not been circumcised) are seen as genetically or spiritually inferior to jews. they don't see non-jews as worth it. I'd know, I have spent my entire life living in an orthodox Jewish community, listening to rabbis on a regular basis, studying Talmud, etc. The Talmud - which is more of a basis to Rabbinic Judaism than the Torah itself - states multiple times that Goyim are subhuman and inferior to Jews.