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WCF CHAPTER IV"Of Creation

joneszj
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10/18/2012 6:33:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
CHAPTER IV"Of Creation

1. It pleased God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, (Heb. 1:2, John 1:2"3, Gen. 1:2, Job 26:13, Job 33:4) for the manifestation of the glory of His eternal power, wisdom, and goodness, (Rom. 1:20, Jer. 10:12, Ps. 104:24, Ps. 33:5"6) in the beginning, to create, or make of nothing, the world, and all things therein whether visible or invisible, in the space of six days; and all very good. (Gen. 1, Heb. 11:3, Col. 1:16, Acts 17:24)
2. After God had made all other creatures, He created man, male and female, (Gen. 1:27) with reasonable and immortal souls, (Gen. 2:7, Ecc. 12:7, Luke 23:43, Matt. 10:28) endued with knowledge, righteousness, and true holiness, after His own image, (Gen. 1:26, Col. 3:10, Eph. 4:24) having the law of God written in their hearts, (Rom. 2:14"15) and power to fulfill it: (Eccl. 7:29) and yet under a possibility of transgressing, being left to the liberty of their own will, which was subject unto change. (Gen. 3:6, Eccl. 7:29) Beside this law written in their hearts, they received a command, not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, (Gen. 2:17, Gen. 3:8"11, 23) which while they kept, they were happy in their communion with God,and had dominion over the creatures. (Gen. 1:26, 28)

The Westminster confession of faith. 1996. Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
Double_Helix46
Posts: 466
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10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?
joneszj
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10/19/2012 6:52:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

I personally don't really see a major importance. The one thing I would say though is that Adam & Eve were created as Adam & Eve. I say that only because of the necessity of the fall and sin before death of humans and such.
Double_Helix46
Posts: 466
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10/19/2012 7:23:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/19/2012 6:52:49 AM, joneszj wrote:
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

I personally don't really see a major importance. The one thing I would say though is that Adam & Eve were created as Adam & Eve. I say that only because of the necessity of the fall and sin before death of humans and such.

I agree. Do you think that the earth is 6,000+ years or as old as science suggests?
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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10/19/2012 7:28:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

No, I do not know what the answer is (or answers are), but I refuse to pervert the Bible to conform to the ever-changing hyoptheses and theories of science. The Bible simply says "In the beginning." I leave it at that. The Bible doesn't really attempt to date the earth - and science can't consistently date it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Double_Helix46
Posts: 466
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10/19/2012 7:29:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/19/2012 7:28:25 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

No, I do not know what the answer is (or answers are), but I refuse to pervert the Bible to conform to the ever-changing hyoptheses and theories of science. The Bible simply says "In the beginning." I leave it at that. The Bible doesn't really attempt to date the earth - and science can't consistently date it.

We agree.
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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10/19/2012 3:21:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

By even considering that we call Christ a liar as He stated " in the beginning " when referring to Adam and Eve.

Evolution is a thrice proved tissue of lies; they have NO answer to poly strata fossils and their methods of dating are a complete joke.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/19/2012 3:48:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

Serious calculations have been done by Biblical scholars over the years, the general consensus is that the Earth and Universe are 6,000 - 10,000 years according to The Bible. Thus, a 4.54 billion year old Earth and a 13.7 billion year old universe cannot be reconciled Biblically (until better calculations with regards to The Bible pop up). Christians either have to go with The Bible, or science.
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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10/19/2012 4:05:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/19/2012 3:48:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

Serious calculations have been done by Biblical scholars over the years, the general consensus is that the Earth and Universe are 6,000 - 10,000 years according to The Bible. Thus, a 4.54 billion year old Earth and a 13.7 billion year old universe cannot be reconciled Biblically (until better calculations with regards to The Bible pop up). Christians either have to go with The Bible, or science.

Amen.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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10/19/2012 4:51:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/19/2012 3:48:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

Serious calculations have been done by Biblical scholars over the years, the general consensus is that the Earth and Universe are 6,000 - 10,000 years according to The Bible. Thus, a 4.54 billion year old Earth and a 13.7 billion year old universe cannot be reconciled Biblically (until better calculations with regards to The Bible pop up). Christians either have to go with The Bible, or science.

lol
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popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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10/19/2012 4:53:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

Yah.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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10/19/2012 5:01:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/19/2012 4:53:03 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

Yah.

How?
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/19/2012 5:02:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/19/2012 4:51:46 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/19/2012 3:48:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

Serious calculations have been done by Biblical scholars over the years, the general consensus is that the Earth and Universe are 6,000 - 10,000 years according to The Bible. Thus, a 4.54 billion year old Earth and a 13.7 billion year old universe cannot be reconciled Biblically (until better calculations with regards to The Bible pop up). Christians either have to go with The Bible, or science.

lol

Great argument, you got me there! ...
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/19/2012 5:08:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/19/2012 4:53:03 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

Yah.

How? All generally accepted Biblical calculations for the age of the Earth and Universe are from between 3,000 BC - 20,000 BC. Even some concluded to be 100,000 BC (which non are, but, hypothetically), that would still be so far off from the scientific answer.

"Among the Masoretic creation estimates or calculations for the date of creation Archbishop Ussher's specific chronology dating the creation to 4004 BC became the most accepted and popular, mainly because this specific date was attached to the King James Bible.[28] The youngest ever recorded date of creation within young Earth creationism is 3616 BC, by Yom-Tov Lipmann Heller in the 17th century.[29] The oldest traditional proposed date within young Earth creationism is 6984 BC by Alfonso X of Castile.[30] However some contemporary or more recent proponents of young Earth creationism have taken this figure back further by several thousands of years. Harold Camping for example dates the creation to 11,013 BC, while Christian Charles Josias Bunsen in the 19th century dated the creation to 20,000 BC.[3]" - http://en.wikipedia.org...

Unless you have better calculations based off of the The Bible, I would love to here how you reconcile science and The Bible with regards to the age of the Earth and Universe. All generally accepted calculations only enter a range of a few thousand years, from the beginning of the Universe/ Earth, to now.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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10/19/2012 5:12:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/19/2012 5:02:34 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/19/2012 4:51:46 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/19/2012 3:48:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

Serious calculations have been done by Biblical scholars over the years, the general consensus is that the Earth and Universe are 6,000 - 10,000 years according to The Bible. Thus, a 4.54 billion year old Earth and a 13.7 billion year old universe cannot be reconciled Biblically (until better calculations with regards to The Bible pop up). Christians either have to go with The Bible, or science.

lol

Great argument, you got me there! ...

I was just expressing my mirth at your argument; it wasn't intended to be one.

Please do tell me more about the general consensus of biblical scholars on this issue.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/19/2012 5:15:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/19/2012 5:12:55 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/19/2012 5:02:34 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/19/2012 4:51:46 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/19/2012 3:48:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

Serious calculations have been done by Biblical scholars over the years, the general consensus is that the Earth and Universe are 6,000 - 10,000 years according to The Bible. Thus, a 4.54 billion year old Earth and a 13.7 billion year old universe cannot be reconciled Biblically (until better calculations with regards to The Bible pop up). Christians either have to go with The Bible, or science.

lol

Great argument, you got me there! ...

I was just expressing my mirth at your argument; it wasn't intended to be one.

Please do tell me more about the general consensus of biblical scholars on this issue.

Why don't you address my post above?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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10/19/2012 5:21:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/19/2012 5:15:25 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/19/2012 5:12:55 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/19/2012 5:02:34 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/19/2012 4:51:46 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/19/2012 3:48:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

Serious calculations have been done by Biblical scholars over the years, the general consensus is that the Earth and Universe are 6,000 - 10,000 years according to The Bible. Thus, a 4.54 billion year old Earth and a 13.7 billion year old universe cannot be reconciled Biblically (until better calculations with regards to The Bible pop up). Christians either have to go with The Bible, or science.

lol

Great argument, you got me there! ...

I was just expressing my mirth at your argument; it wasn't intended to be one.

Please do tell me more about the general consensus of biblical scholars on this issue.

Why don't you address my post above?

So if I quoted a couple of scientists who thought that evolution was false (and quoted some other scientists who supported their work) I suppose that would amount to showing that general consensus amongst scientists is that evolution isn't true?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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10/19/2012 5:21:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/19/2012 5:08:40 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/19/2012 4:53:03 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

Yah.

How? All generally accepted Biblical calculations for the age of the Earth and Universe are from between 3,000 BC - 20,000 BC. Even some concluded to be 100,000 BC (which non are, but, hypothetically), that would still be so far off from the scientific answer.

"Among the Masoretic creation estimates or calculations for the date of creation Archbishop Ussher's specific chronology dating the creation to 4004 BC became the most accepted and popular, mainly because this specific date was attached to the King James Bible.[28] The youngest ever recorded date of creation within young Earth creationism is 3616 BC, by Yom-Tov Lipmann Heller in the 17th century.[29] The oldest traditional proposed date within young Earth creationism is 6984 BC by Alfonso X of Castile.[30] However some contemporary or more recent proponents of young Earth creationism have taken this figure back further by several thousands of years. Harold Camping for example dates the creation to 11,013 BC, while Christian Charles Josias Bunsen in the 19th century dated the creation to 20,000 BC.[3]" - http://en.wikipedia.org...

Unless you have better calculations based off of the The Bible, I would love to here how you reconcile science and The Bible with regards to the age of the Earth and Universe. All generally accepted calculations only enter a range of a few thousand years, from the beginning of the Universe/ Earth, to now.

I don't get it. You're quoting an article on estimates of the Earth's age within young Earth creationism to do what exactly?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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10/19/2012 5:31:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/19/2012 5:08:40 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/19/2012 4:53:03 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

Yah.

How? All generally accepted Biblical calculations for the age of the Earth and Universe are from between 3,000 BC - 20,000 BC. Even some concluded to be 100,000 BC (which non are, but, hypothetically), that would still be so far off from the scientific answer.

"Among the Masoretic creation estimates or calculations for the date of creation Archbishop Ussher's specific chronology dating the creation to 4004 BC became the most accepted and popular, mainly because this specific date was attached to the King James Bible.[28] The youngest ever recorded date of creation within young Earth creationism is 3616 BC, by Yom-Tov Lipmann Heller in the 17th century.[29] The oldest traditional proposed date within young Earth creationism is 6984 BC by Alfonso X of Castile.[30] However some contemporary or more recent proponents of young Earth creationism have taken this figure back further by several thousands of years. Harold Camping for example dates the creation to 11,013 BC, while Christian Charles Josias Bunsen in the 19th century dated the creation to 20,000 BC.[3]" - http://en.wikipedia.org...

Unless you have better calculations based off of the The Bible, I would love to here how you reconcile science and The Bible with regards to the age of the Earth and Universe. All generally accepted calculations only enter a range of a few thousand years, from the beginning of the Universe/ Earth, to now.

Why would I (or they) be calculating in the first place? That assumes the author(s) intent was/is to give an accurate general account of history...
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/19/2012 5:34:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/19/2012 5:21:51 PM, Rusty wrote:
At 10/19/2012 5:08:40 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/19/2012 4:53:03 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

Yah.

How? All generally accepted Biblical calculations for the age of the Earth and Universe are from between 3,000 BC - 20,000 BC. Even some concluded to be 100,000 BC (which non are, but, hypothetically), that would still be so far off from the scientific answer.

"Among the Masoretic creation estimates or calculations for the date of creation Archbishop Ussher's specific chronology dating the creation to 4004 BC became the most accepted and popular, mainly because this specific date was attached to the King James Bible.[28] The youngest ever recorded date of creation within young Earth creationism is 3616 BC, by Yom-Tov Lipmann Heller in the 17th century.[29] The oldest traditional proposed date within young Earth creationism is 6984 BC by Alfonso X of Castile.[30] However some contemporary or more recent proponents of young Earth creationism have taken this figure back further by several thousands of years. Harold Camping for example dates the creation to 11,013 BC, while Christian Charles Josias Bunsen in the 19th century dated the creation to 20,000 BC.[3]" - http://en.wikipedia.org...

Unless you have better calculations based off of the The Bible, I would love to here how you reconcile science and The Bible with regards to the age of the Earth and Universe. All generally accepted calculations only enter a range of a few thousand years, from the beginning of the Universe/ Earth, to now.

I don't get it. You're quoting an article on estimates of the Earth's age within young Earth creationism to do what exactly?

To show that all calculations based on The Bible indicate a Universe/ Earth only a few thousands years old. I thought that was obvious. Anyway, unless you have better calculations then, you are posting, to do what exactly? Also, you are confusing cause and effect. We aren't getting these numbers in the calculations because Young Earth creationism exists, Young Earth creationism exists because of these calculations.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/19/2012 5:40:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/19/2012 5:31:37 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/19/2012 5:08:40 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/19/2012 4:53:03 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

Yah.

How? All generally accepted Biblical calculations for the age of the Earth and Universe are from between 3,000 BC - 20,000 BC. Even some concluded to be 100,000 BC (which non are, but, hypothetically), that would still be so far off from the scientific answer.

"Among the Masoretic creation estimates or calculations for the date of creation Archbishop Ussher's specific chronology dating the creation to 4004 BC became the most accepted and popular, mainly because this specific date was attached to the King James Bible.[28] The youngest ever recorded date of creation within young Earth creationism is 3616 BC, by Yom-Tov Lipmann Heller in the 17th century.[29] The oldest traditional proposed date within young Earth creationism is 6984 BC by Alfonso X of Castile.[30] However some contemporary or more recent proponents of young Earth creationism have taken this figure back further by several thousands of years. Harold Camping for example dates the creation to 11,013 BC, while Christian Charles Josias Bunsen in the 19th century dated the creation to 20,000 BC.[3]" - http://en.wikipedia.org...

Unless you have better calculations based off of the The Bible, I would love to here how you reconcile science and The Bible with regards to the age of the Earth and Universe. All generally accepted calculations only enter a range of a few thousand years, from the beginning of the Universe/ Earth, to now.

Why would I (or they) be calculating in the first place? That assumes the author(s) intent was/is to give an accurate general account of history...

They would calculate to find out how old the Universe/ Earth is according to The Bible. All calculations done indicate a Universe/ Earth a few thousand years old. You show me Biblical calculations which indicate a Universe/ Earth that is billions of years old, then maybe you may be able to reconcile science with The Bible. However, calculations done so far, don't speak to kindly in your favor.
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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10/19/2012 6:02:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/19/2012 5:34:49 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/19/2012 5:21:51 PM, Rusty wrote:
At 10/19/2012 5:08:40 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/19/2012 4:53:03 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

Yah.

How? All generally accepted Biblical calculations for the age of the Earth and Universe are from between 3,000 BC - 20,000 BC. Even some concluded to be 100,000 BC (which non are, but, hypothetically), that would still be so far off from the scientific answer.

"Among the Masoretic creation estimates or calculations for the date of creation Archbishop Ussher's specific chronology dating the creation to 4004 BC became the most accepted and popular, mainly because this specific date was attached to the King James Bible.[28] The youngest ever recorded date of creation within young Earth creationism is 3616 BC, by Yom-Tov Lipmann Heller in the 17th century.[29] The oldest traditional proposed date within young Earth creationism is 6984 BC by Alfonso X of Castile.[30] However some contemporary or more recent proponents of young Earth creationism have taken this figure back further by several thousands of years. Harold Camping for example dates the creation to 11,013 BC, while Christian Charles Josias Bunsen in the 19th century dated the creation to 20,000 BC.[3]" - http://en.wikipedia.org...

Unless you have better calculations based off of the The Bible, I would love to here how you reconcile science and The Bible with regards to the age of the Earth and Universe. All generally accepted calculations only enter a range of a few thousand years, from the beginning of the Universe/ Earth, to now.

I don't get it. You're quoting an article on estimates of the Earth's age within young Earth creationism to do what exactly?

To show that all calculations based on The Bible indicate a Universe/ Earth only a few thousands years old. I thought that was obvious. Anyway, unless you have better calculations then, you are posting, to do what exactly? Also, you are confusing cause and effect. We aren't getting these numbers in the calculations because Young Earth creationism exists, Young Earth creationism exists because of these calculations.

Whoosh.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/19/2012 6:07:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/19/2012 6:02:37 PM, Rusty wrote:
At 10/19/2012 5:34:49 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/19/2012 5:21:51 PM, Rusty wrote:
At 10/19/2012 5:08:40 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/19/2012 4:53:03 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

Yah.

How? All generally accepted Biblical calculations for the age of the Earth and Universe are from between 3,000 BC - 20,000 BC. Even some concluded to be 100,000 BC (which non are, but, hypothetically), that would still be so far off from the scientific answer.

"Among the Masoretic creation estimates or calculations for the date of creation Archbishop Ussher's specific chronology dating the creation to 4004 BC became the most accepted and popular, mainly because this specific date was attached to the King James Bible.[28] The youngest ever recorded date of creation within young Earth creationism is 3616 BC, by Yom-Tov Lipmann Heller in the 17th century.[29] The oldest traditional proposed date within young Earth creationism is 6984 BC by Alfonso X of Castile.[30] However some contemporary or more recent proponents of young Earth creationism have taken this figure back further by several thousands of years. Harold Camping for example dates the creation to 11,013 BC, while Christian Charles Josias Bunsen in the 19th century dated the creation to 20,000 BC.[3]" - http://en.wikipedia.org...

Unless you have better calculations based off of the The Bible, I would love to here how you reconcile science and The Bible with regards to the age of the Earth and Universe. All generally accepted calculations only enter a range of a few thousand years, from the beginning of the Universe/ Earth, to now.

I don't get it. You're quoting an article on estimates of the Earth's age within young Earth creationism to do what exactly?

To show that all calculations based on The Bible indicate a Universe/ Earth only a few thousands years old. I thought that was obvious. Anyway, unless you have better calculations then, you are posting, to do what exactly? Also, you are confusing cause and effect. We aren't getting these numbers in the calculations because Young Earth creationism exists, Young Earth creationism exists because of these calculations.

Whoosh.

Great cop out response, you are getting good at this!
truthseeker613
Posts: 464
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10/21/2012 7:42:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/19/2012 6:07:31 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/19/2012 6:02:37 PM, Rusty wrote:
At 10/19/2012 5:34:49 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/19/2012 5:21:51 PM, Rusty wrote:
At 10/19/2012 5:08:40 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/19/2012 4:53:03 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/18/2012 11:33:40 PM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
I agree.

Just for discussion sake I ask.

Can the creation, world and space, all of it, be millions into billions of years old? Can any of that thought be reconciled Biblically?

Yah.

How? All generally accepted Biblical calculations for the age of the Earth and Universe are from between 3,000 BC - 20,000 BC. Even some concluded to be 100,000 BC (which non are, but, hypothetically), that would still be so far off from the scientific answer.

"Among the Masoretic creation estimates or calculations for the date of creation Archbishop Ussher's specific chronology dating the creation to 4004 BC became the most accepted and popular, mainly because this specific date was attached to the King James Bible.[28] The youngest ever recorded date of creation within young Earth creationism is 3616 BC, by Yom-Tov Lipmann Heller in the 17th century.[29] The oldest traditional proposed date within young Earth creationism is 6984 BC by Alfonso X of Castile.[30] However some contemporary or more recent proponents of young Earth creationism have taken this figure back further by several thousands of years. Harold Camping for example dates the creation to 11,013 BC, while Christian Charles Josias Bunsen in the 19th century dated the creation to 20,000 BC.[3]" - http://en.wikipedia.org...

Unless you have better calculations based off of the The Bible, I would love to here how you reconcile science and The Bible with regards to the age of the Earth and Universe. All generally accepted calculations only enter a range of a few thousand years, from the beginning of the Universe/ Earth, to now.

I don't get it. You're quoting an article on estimates of the Earth's age within young Earth creationism to do what exactly?

To show that all calculations based on The Bible indicate a Universe/ Earth only a few thousands years old. I thought that was obvious. Anyway, unless you have better calculations then, you are posting, to do what exactly? Also, you are confusing cause and effect. We aren't getting these numbers in the calculations because Young Earth creationism exists, Young Earth creationism exists because of these calculations.

Whoosh.

Great cop out response, you are getting good at this!

A number of Jewish approaches:

1)Gerald Schroeder - PhD from MIT in nuclear physics and earth and planetary sciences MIT.[2] He worked five years on the staff of the MIT physics department. He was a member of the United States Atomic Energy Commission.[3]
Anthony Flew, an academic philosopher who promoted atheism for most of his adult life indicated that the fine-tuned universe arguments of Gerald Schroeder convinced him to become a deist.[8][9]

http://www.geraldschroeder.com...

http://www.talkreason.org...

2)Professor Gotlieb - formerly professor of philosophy at John Hopkins:

http://www.dovidgottlieb.com...

3)Kaplan - master's degree in physics. listed in a "Who's Who in Physics" in the U.S.

http://www.simpletoremember.com...

4)Rav Kook - 1st chief rabbi of Israel

http://www.ravkooktorah.org...

5) A few books:

Nathan Aviezer - Professor of Physics - http://en.wikipedia.org...
In the Beginning, Biblical Creation and Science; Fossils and Faith: Understanding Torah and Science

Professor Yehuda Levi: Torah and Science - Their Interplay in the World Scheme

Aryeh Carmell and professor Cyril Domb, ed.: Challenge: Torah Views on Science and Its Problems

Daniel E. Friedmann: The Genesis One Code

Aryeh Kaplan: Immortality, Resurrection and the Age of the Universe: A Kabbalistic View

professor Gerald Schroeder: Genesis and the Big Bang: The Discovery of Harmony Between Modern Science and the Bible; The Science of God

Natan Slifkin: The Challenge of Creation

This one isn't Jewish but I'll add it any way:

http://rationalwiki.org...
http://www.nydailynews.com...

royalpaladin: I'd rather support people who kill spies than a nation that organizes assassination squads (Kidon) to illegally enter into other nations and kill anybody who is not a Zionist. Who knows when they'll kill me for the crime of not supporting Israel?

Koopin: LOL! I just imagine Royal sitting in here apartment at night, when suddenly she hears a man outside speaking Hebrew as sh
Dogknox
Posts: 5,051
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10/21/2012 11:17:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
2) law of God written in their hearts
God' law is LOVE!
It is written on their HEARTS>> Following the HEART saves!!!

The LAW on the heart is "You MUST LOVE!"
All who LOVE go to heaven because they are RIGHTEOUS!!
They DO RIGHT!
1 John 3:7
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

The one who does what is right is righteous
Only the righteous go to heaven!

2. After God had made all other creatures, He created man, male and female, (Gen. 1:27) with reasonable and immortal souls, (Gen. 2:7, Ecc. 12:7, Luke 23:43, Matt. 10:28) endued with knowledge, righteousness, and true holiness, after His own image, (Gen. 1:26, Col. 3:10, Eph. 4:24) having the law of God written in their hearts, (Rom. 2:14"15) and power to fulfill it: (Eccl. 7:29)

God' LAW!!
John 13:34
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

The man without love is not saved!
The Man with "Faith ALONE" is not saved!
The LAW of the HEART is NOT FAITH it is >>LOVE<<

Dogknox
Dogknox
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10/22/2012 1:09:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/18/2012 6:35:06 PM, joneszj wrote:
These are pretty self explanitory

http://www.reformed.org...
2. After God had made all other creatures, He created man, male and female, (Gen. 1:27) with reasonable and immortal souls, (Gen. 2:7, Ecc. 12:7, Luke 23:43, Matt. 10:28) endued with knowledge, righteousness, and true holiness, after His own image, (Gen. 1:26, Col. 3:10, Eph. 4:24) having the law of God written in their hearts, (Rom. 2:14"15) and power to fulfill it:

The man without love is not saved!
The Man with "Faith ALONE" is not saved!
The LAW of the HEART is NOT FAITH it is >>LOVE<<
The law of God is written in their hearts.... "LOVE is the LAW" on the HEART!

Faith ALONE does not save!!
Dogknox
Dogknox
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10/23/2012 1:38:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 1:09:24 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 10/18/2012 6:35:06 PM, joneszj wrote:
These are pretty self explanitory

http://www.reformed.org...
2. After God had made all other creatures, He created man, male and female, (Gen. 1:27) with reasonable and immortal souls, (Gen. 2:7, Ecc. 12:7, Luke 23:43, Matt. 10:28) endued with knowledge, righteousness, and true holiness, after His own image, (Gen. 1:26, Col. 3:10, Eph. 4:24) having the law of God written in their hearts, (Rom. 2:14"15) and power to fulfill it:

The man without love is not saved!
The Man with "Faith ALONE" is not saved!
The LAW of the HEART is NOT FAITH it is >>LOVE<<
The law of God is written in their hearts.... "LOVE is the LAW" on the HEART!

Faith ALONE does not save!!
Dogknox

joneszj So far every one of your Church' "WCF"s is proven to be "wanting"!

You claim all you need is Faith ALONE; Then your "CHAPTER IV" tells you.. law of God written in their hearts!!

God' LAW is, you MUST LOVE! So much for "Faith ALONE"!

joneszj You believe your CHURCH teaching.. the "Holy Catholic Church fell away from Jesus".. That Satan overpowered Jesus and took Jesus' body !

Jesus tells you; he told your church... "He is ALWAYS with his Church, to the end of time!".. Meaning your CHURCH is teaching LIES!!!!
Lies are the work of Satan>>> He must be Your father, you are the fruit of his lies!!

Dogknox
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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10/23/2012 1:42:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/23/2012 1:38:17 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 10/22/2012 1:09:24 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 10/18/2012 6:35:06 PM, joneszj wrote:
These are pretty self explanitory

http://www.reformed.org...
2. After God had made all other creatures, He created man, male and female, (Gen. 1:27) with reasonable and immortal souls, (Gen. 2:7, Ecc. 12:7, Luke 23:43, Matt. 10:28) endued with knowledge, righteousness, and true holiness, after His own image, (Gen. 1:26, Col. 3:10, Eph. 4:24) having the law of God written in their hearts, (Rom. 2:14"15) and power to fulfill it:

The man without love is not saved!
The Man with "Faith ALONE" is not saved!
The LAW of the HEART is NOT FAITH it is >>LOVE<<
The law of God is written in their hearts.... "LOVE is the LAW" on the HEART!

Faith ALONE does not save!!
Dogknox

joneszj So far every one of your Church' "WCF"s is proven to be "wanting"!

You claim all you need is Faith ALONE; Then your "CHAPTER IV" tells you.. law of God written in their hearts!!

God' LAW is, you MUST LOVE! So much for "Faith ALONE"!

joneszj You believe your CHURCH teaching.. the "Holy Catholic Church fell away from Jesus".. That Satan overpowered Jesus and took Jesus' body !

Jesus tells you; he told your church... "He is ALWAYS with his Church, to the end of time!".. Meaning your CHURCH is teaching LIES!!!!
Lies are the work of Satan>>> He must be Your father, you are the fruit of his lies!!

Dogknox

If your 60 yrs old I'm a monkey's uncle.. THAT'S why you won't Skype..
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
Dogknox
Posts: 5,051
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10/23/2012 2:30:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Faith ALONE was unheard of for the first sixteen hundred years!
It was never ever taught by Christians!

It is a Man made tradition, first introduced by the de-Former Martin Luther!

Faith ALONE takes LOVE and HOPE out of salvation of Men!

>>>God is love<<<!
The Man with "Faith ALONE" is God-less he is Hope-Less!

Faith Alone sends men's souls to Satan and the lake of fire!!
There is "NO faith in heaven" the man with ONLY Faith would never be allowed into heaven!

Believers believe the words of Jesus.. "You MUST LOVE!"
Men who trust in Faith ALONE reject Jesus>> God is LOVE!!
All must enter through the, door of LOVE!

Dogknox