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God No!

TheBloodyScot
Posts: 59
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10/31/2012 4:13:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
If god told you to kill your children, would you?
Something is not worth doing if it is not worth doing right.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
-Epicurus

"I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing."
-Socrates
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/31/2012 4:34:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 4:21:51 AM, medic0506 wrote:
Sure. I'm a Christian

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Prove it you self-acclaimed liar & Fraud!

The next genuine believer manifesting the Story book promises already a given to such a person outside of Story book land, will be the very first in man's entire history!

At 10/31/2012 4:21:51 AM, medic0506 wrote:
so why wouldn't I. We do things like that all the time, right??

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: So are you now claiming you won't obey your Story book god as others had to do previously in Story book Land?, you proven fraudulent & disobedient pretender you, LOL!

e.g. But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [ them ] before me. (Luke 19:27) KJV Story book

At 10/31/2012 4:21:51 AM, medic0506 wrote:
What an ignorant question.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: The question is by no means ignorant!

It is pertinent to any genuine believer of which of course you are not and never were you ignoramous, liar, deceiver & fraud!

Your literal Saviour moi!
TheBloodyScot
Posts: 59
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10/31/2012 4:41:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 4:21:51 AM, medic0506 wrote:
What an ignorant question.
What an ignorant question you say? Obviously someone never read the bible. I know God told Abraham to kill his child! No wonder you believe in god.

"If you want to become an Atheist, just read the bible"
-Penn Jillette
Something is not worth doing if it is not worth doing right.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
-Epicurus

"I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing."
-Socrates
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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10/31/2012 5:17:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 4:41:34 AM, TheBloodyScot wrote:
At 10/31/2012 4:21:51 AM, medic0506 wrote:
What an ignorant question.
What an ignorant question you say? Obviously someone never read the bible. I know God told Abraham to kill his child! No wonder you believe in god.

God didn't actually have Abraham kill his child.

"If you want to become an Atheist, just read the bible"
-Penn Jillette
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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10/31/2012 5:27:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's not an ignorant question, just a what if. It's meant to point out that no one really takes their morality straight from the Bible or the teachings of a deity. I think the same thing applies to the States. For all but the fattest sheep there's some cut off point where if you thought God/the State told you to do something, you'd say hell no.

I think this is indicative that at base we all just operate under our own unsupported presuppositions and rationalize it into accordance with some system i.e., laws, Christianity, etc. The way you show up the BS is by recourse to thought experiment, that is, something insane that you would never possibly think of doing.

If God said to rape a baby, would you do it?

If the government made it a law that you had to shove a straw up your urethra every morning would you do it?

etc. etc. etc.

Btw answers along the lines of "God wouldn't do that" are pretty much inapplicable considering no one is saying that God would command such a thing. It's a thought experiment, bear with me bro.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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10/31/2012 5:29:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 4:41:34 AM, TheBloodyScot wrote:
At 10/31/2012 4:21:51 AM, medic0506 wrote:
What an ignorant question.
What an ignorant question you say? Obviously someone never read the bible. I know God told Abraham to kill his child! No wonder you believe in god.

That's a dumb reason not to believe in God in all honesty. I mean there are plenty of legitimate reasons going on both sides but just saying "Gross he said something that my unanalyzed, moral presuppositions are against. And I can't posssbly be wrong, therefore...." isn't indicative of anything.

"If you want to become an Atheist, just read the bible"
-Penn Jillette
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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10/31/2012 6:18:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is all under the assumption that God exists and he can talk to us through a mystical, psychological connection.
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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10/31/2012 6:39:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
If God told you to do anything, do you think you could resist his demand?
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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10/31/2012 7:32:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 5:27:11 AM, socialpinko wrote:
It's not an ignorant question, just a what if. It's meant to point out that no one really takes their morality straight from the Bible or the teachings of a deity. I think the same thing applies to the States. For all but the fattest sheep there's some cut off point where if you thought God/the State told you to do something, you'd say hell no.

I think this is indicative that at base we all just operate under our own unsupported presuppositions and rationalize it into accordance with some system i.e., laws, Christianity, etc. The way you show up the BS is by recourse to thought experiment, that is, something insane that you would never possibly think of doing.

If God said to rape a baby, would you do it?

If the government made it a law that you had to shove a straw up your urethra every morning would you do it?

etc. etc. etc.

Btw answers along the lines of "God wouldn't do that" are pretty much inapplicable considering no one is saying that God would command such a thing. It's a thought experiment, bear with me bro.

There is a real difference however believing and knowing. Are we asking "if God told us to kill our child, would we?" or "if a voice that says, 'I am God' told us to kill our child, would we?"

In order for anyone to answer yes or no it would entirely depend on whether we believed that it was god that gave the commandment or not.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/31/2012 7:46:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 6:39:20 AM, Heineken wrote:
If God told you to do anything, do you think you could resist his demand?

Yes.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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10/31/2012 8:01:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 7:46:16 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/31/2012 6:39:20 AM, Heineken wrote:
If God told you to do anything, do you think you could resist his demand?

Yes.
So, when the Bible states that "every knee shall bow", do you believe those people chose to bow down, or is it possible that Christ simply states:" I am!" ....and you fall to your knees like someone just kicked you in the back of the knees?

I kind of tend to lean toward the dictionary definition of omnipotence.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/31/2012 8:02:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 8:01:10 AM, Heineken wrote:
So, when the Bible states that "every knee shall bow", do you believe those people chose to bow down, or is it possible that Christ simply states:" I am!" ....and you fall to your knees like someone just kicked you in the back of the knees?

Who knows?

Every knee shall bow, whether or not they do it because they decided to do it or because God forced them all to is unknown.

I kind of tend to lean toward the dictionary definition of omnipotence.

Telling =/= Forcing
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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10/31/2012 8:53:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 8:02:43 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/31/2012 8:01:10 AM, Heineken wrote:
So, when the Bible states that "every knee shall bow", do you believe those people chose to bow down, or is it possible that Christ simply states:" I am!" ....and you fall to your knees like someone just kicked you in the back of the knees?

Who knows?

Every knee shall bow, whether or not they do it because they decided to do it or because God forced them all to is unknown.

I kind of tend to lean toward the dictionary definition of omnipotence.

Telling =/= Forcing

So when Christ said:" Lazarus, come forth."...Lazarus chose to obey?
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/31/2012 9:01:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 8:53:31 AM, Heineken wrote:
At 10/31/2012 8:02:43 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/31/2012 8:01:10 AM, Heineken wrote:
So, when the Bible states that "every knee shall bow", do you believe those people chose to bow down, or is it possible that Christ simply states:" I am!" ....and you fall to your knees like someone just kicked you in the back of the knees?

Who knows?

Every knee shall bow, whether or not they do it because they decided to do it or because God forced them all to is unknown.

I kind of tend to lean toward the dictionary definition of omnipotence.

Telling =/= Forcing

So when Christ said:" Lazarus, come forth."...Lazarus chose to obey?

Jesus wasn't just talking to him, you know.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/31/2012 9:10:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 9:01:13 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/31/2012 8:53:31 AM, Heineken wrote:
At 10/31/2012 8:02:43 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/31/2012 8:01:10 AM, Heineken wrote:
So, when the Bible states that "every knee shall bow", do you believe those people chose to bow down, or is it possible that Christ simply states:" I am!" ....and you fall to your knees like someone just kicked you in the back of the knees?

Who knows?

Every knee shall bow, whether or not they do it because they decided to do it or because God forced them all to is unknown.

I kind of tend to lean toward the dictionary definition of omnipotence.

Telling =/= Forcing

So when Christ said:" Lazarus, come forth."...Lazarus chose to obey?

Jesus wasn't just talking to him, you know.

That is, Lazarus didn't come back from the dead just because Jesus told him to come forth.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
TheBloodyScot
Posts: 59
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10/31/2012 9:33:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I am not a religious person. I find it amazing how people can rationalize things that I find very irrational, and irrationalize things that I find rational. The bible is one thing I find very irrational, but true believers find it very rational. I am only seeking answers to why people believe in these things that are "irrational to me, rational to you things." To you who don't like my question, well you are very irrational to me and I am irrational to you. It doesn't make sense, but instead of just telling me I am stupid, please tell me why my question seems so irrational to you. That is my entire goal, to make sense of why there are these complete differences in views.
Something is not worth doing if it is not worth doing right.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
-Epicurus

"I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing."
-Socrates
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/31/2012 9:37:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 4:13:07 AM, TheBloodyScot wrote:
If god told you to kill your children, would you?

Yes.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
TheBloodyScot
Posts: 59
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10/31/2012 9:42:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 9:37:41 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/31/2012 4:13:07 AM, TheBloodyScot wrote:
If god told you to kill your children, would you?

Yes.

Wouldn't that break the first commandment?
Something is not worth doing if it is not worth doing right.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
-Epicurus

"I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing."
-Socrates
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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10/31/2012 9:47:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 5:27:11 AM, socialpinko wrote:
It's not an ignorant question, just a what if. It's meant to point out that no one really takes their morality straight from the Bible or the teachings of a deity. I think the same thing applies to the States. For all but the fattest sheep there's some cut off point where if you thought God/the State told you to do something, you'd say hell no.

Right, at it's basic level the point of the question is to show theists that they aren't as devoted as they think they are, or to try and show us what kind of God we worship, as if we don't already have the knowledge of what's in the Bible. It's an ignorant question. It's like me starting a thread asking atheists, "Since you have no objective moral standard, what stops you from killing people that honk you off, or raping people you find attractive". It's a dumb question, and the motives for asking it are obviously to discredit theists and their belief systems. I've been chewed out by atheists for much less offensive things.

If he had thought this through he'd have realized that we worship a God who is omniscient, who would know that we would not believe it was Him who was giving the order. It's just an all around stupid question. If the goal was to start a discussion about how we rationalize our morality with the Bible, then why not phrase the discussion in that way??

I think this is indicative that at base we all just operate under our own unsupported presuppositions and rationalize it into accordance with some system i.e., laws, Christianity, etc.

I disagree, and see this argument as an argument to attempt to show that theists don't really have an objective standard of morality. I don't operate under any base presuppositions where morality is concerned. I have an objective moral standard that I am expected to adhere to. If you ask a question and my answer is not based on Biblical morality, then your question is not a moral question.

The way you show up the BS is by recourse to thought experiment, that is, something insane that you would never possibly think of doing.

If God said to rape a baby, would you do it?

That's another illogical question. In addition to what I've already said, we are told not to harm others. Rape is definately harm, especially to a child. Also, sex outside of marriage is a sin so God would not give me that order because it is contrary to what He tells me in the Bible, about several issues.

If the government made it a law that you had to shove a straw up your urethra every morning would you do it?

etc. etc. etc.

If there was no God, thus no objective moral standard, then any rule that is set is just the preferences of another person/s thus would not be applicable to me.

Btw answers along the lines of "God wouldn't do that" are pretty much inapplicable considering no one is saying that God would command such a thing. It's a thought experiment, bear with me bro.

I disagree here too. If your God forbids you from doing something, then it's certainly applicable and you would be remiss in not point that out as a fact. If God's law is not an applicable answer, even though it's what you submit to, then why ask what you would do in that situation?? Why not just ask, "Isn't it true that you don't really follow the Bible, or have an objective moral standard??".
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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10/31/2012 9:50:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 9:10:23 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:01:13 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/31/2012 8:53:31 AM, Heineken wrote:
At 10/31/2012 8:02:43 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/31/2012 8:01:10 AM, Heineken wrote:
So, when the Bible states that "every knee shall bow", do you believe those people chose to bow down, or is it possible that Christ simply states:" I am!" ....and you fall to your knees like someone just kicked you in the back of the knees?

Who knows?

Every knee shall bow, whether or not they do it because they decided to do it or because God forced them all to is unknown.

I kind of tend to lean toward the dictionary definition of omnipotence.

Telling =/= Forcing

So when Christ said:" Lazarus, come forth."...Lazarus chose to obey?

Jesus wasn't just talking to him, you know.

That is, Lazarus didn't come back from the dead just because Jesus told him to come forth.

Really? So what happened?
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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10/31/2012 9:54:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 9:33:36 AM, TheBloodyScot wrote:
I am not a religious person. I find it amazing how people can rationalize things that I find very irrational, and irrationalize things that I find rational. The bible is one thing I find very irrational, but true believers find it very rational. I am only seeking answers to why people believe in these things that are "irrational to me, rational to you things." To you who don't like my question, well you are very irrational to me and I am irrational to you. It doesn't make sense, but instead of just telling me I am stupid, please tell me why my question seems so irrational to you. That is my entire goal, to make sense of why there are these complete differences in views.

If your opening post had been phrased in this way, I wouldn't have made the comments about the question being stupid, and my long post to Spinko would have been worded much different. My apologies for the negative comments.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/31/2012 9:57:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 9:50:35 AM, Heineken wrote:
Really? So what happened?

Jesus brought him back to life.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
TheBloodyScot
Posts: 59
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10/31/2012 10:04:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 9:54:20 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:33:36 AM, TheBloodyScot wrote:
I am not a religious person. I find it amazing how people can rationalize things that I find very irrational, and irrationalize things that I find rational. The bible is one thing I find very irrational, but true believers find it very rational. I am only seeking answers to why people believe in these things that are "irrational to me, rational to you things." To you who don't like my question, well you are very irrational to me and I am irrational to you. It doesn't make sense, but instead of just telling me I am stupid, please tell me why my question seems so irrational to you. That is my entire goal, to make sense of why there are these complete differences in views.

If your opening post had been phrased in this way, I wouldn't have made the comments about the question being stupid, and my long post to Spinko would have been worded much different. My apologies for the negative comments.

That is okay. I intended to strike controversy, but didn't intend to offend you. And as I am seeing from the posts, there is a wide variety of answers. People are willing to rationalize doing so as much as they are willing to rationalize not.
Something is not worth doing if it is not worth doing right.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
-Epicurus

"I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing."
-Socrates
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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10/31/2012 10:06:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 9:57:02 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:50:35 AM, Heineken wrote:
Really? So what happened?

Jesus brought him back to life.

.......I agree.....I..(sigh)...nevermind.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/31/2012 10:06:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 9:42:29 AM, TheBloodyScot wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:37:41 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/31/2012 4:13:07 AM, TheBloodyScot wrote:
If god told you to kill your children, would you?

Yes.

Wouldn't that break the first commandment?

No. The First Commandment has been deemed by the Holy Catholic Church to refer to murder.

As God is the highest authority, if he commands the killing it is licit.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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10/31/2012 10:07:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 10:06:27 AM, Heineken wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:57:02 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:50:35 AM, Heineken wrote:
Really? So what happened?

Jesus brought him back to life.

.......I agree.....I..(sigh)...nevermind.

Jesus' commands can be resisted.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
TheBloodyScot
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10/31/2012 10:15:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 10:06:56 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:42:29 AM, TheBloodyScot wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:37:41 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/31/2012 4:13:07 AM, TheBloodyScot wrote:
If god told you to kill your children, would you?

Yes.

Wouldn't that break the first commandment?

No. The First Commandment has been deemed by the Holy Catholic Church to refer to murder.

As God is the highest authority, if he commands the killing it is licit.

So that means it is not a sin to go and sacrifice my son because it is not murder? That is how murder is rationalized by you?
Something is not worth doing if it is not worth doing right.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
-Epicurus

"I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing."
-Socrates
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/31/2012 10:42:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 10:15:10 AM, TheBloodyScot wrote:
At 10/31/2012 10:06:56 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:42:29 AM, TheBloodyScot wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:37:41 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 10/31/2012 4:13:07 AM, TheBloodyScot wrote:
If god told you to kill your children, would you?

Yes.

Wouldn't that break the first commandment?

No. The First Commandment has been deemed by the Holy Catholic Church to refer to murder.

As God is the highest authority, if he commands the killing it is licit.

So that means it is not a sin to go and sacrifice my son because it is not murder? That is how murder is rationalized by you?

If you go and sacrifice your son without the authorization of God, it's murder.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
phantom
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10/31/2012 11:01:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 6:39:20 AM, Heineken wrote:
If God told you to do anything, do you think you could resist his demand?

What happened to free-will?
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)