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If God is all powerful

DanT
Posts: 5,693
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11/4/2012 5:33:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
can he make a boat that even he cannot sink?
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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11/4/2012 5:37:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If God is all powerful then why are there non-believers?
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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11/4/2012 6:08:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/4/2012 5:37:23 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
If God is all powerful then why are there non-believers?


The real question, is why are there any believers?
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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11/4/2012 6:24:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If God is all powerful then can he make a stone he cannot lift?
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
Muted
Posts: 377
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11/4/2012 6:40:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Is this one of those inane threads where people try to add an "all powerful" behind a nothing to make it a something?

Phrasing the statements in another way, "a stone too heavy for God to lift" is the same as saying "a stone too heavy to lift for a being who can lift anything." This contradicts itself and thus is a logical impossibility.

Simply adding "all-powerful" behind nothings does not make it somethings. It is a logical impossibility.

God can only do what is logically possible. Even though one should add an "all-powerful" behind it. Perhaps now the claim is raised, "Then He cannot be all-powerful!"

Well, then one must think, can anyone create a square circle? Is 2+2=10? Those are logical impossibilities because they contradict themselves and thus cannot happen.
Exterminate!!!!!!-Dalek.

The ability to speak does not make you a competent debater.

One does not simply do the rain dance.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/4/2012 9:35:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If this is an argument against an omnipotent God, it fails completely on all counts.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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11/4/2012 9:45:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If God is all powerful, why is Dead Like Me cancelled?
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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11/4/2012 9:49:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If God is all powerful then how come he doesn't strike me down when I say "If you exist, you better strike me down you son of a b*tch."?
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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11/4/2012 9:53:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If God is all powerful, why did he let Disney buy Star Wars?
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
Muted
Posts: 377
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11/5/2012 3:48:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/4/2012 9:49:37 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
If God is all powerful then how come he doesn't strike me down when I say "If you exist, you better strike me down you son of a b*tch."?

This implies that God is subservient to you, as He now has to follow your orders. In the same way that He imparted some of his Free Will to us, he also can take it away. That does not indicate a certainty, however.

Have you heard of the difference between a seeker and a scoffer?
Exterminate!!!!!!-Dalek.

The ability to speak does not make you a competent debater.

One does not simply do the rain dance.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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11/5/2012 4:25:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/4/2012 9:53:39 PM, Maikuru wrote:
If God is all powerful, why did he let Disney buy Star Wars?

That's probably the strongest argument against an omnipotent God I've ever heard in my life.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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11/5/2012 5:11:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/4/2012 5:37:23 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
If God is all powerful then why are there non-believers?

Free will mostly.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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11/5/2012 5:11:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/4/2012 9:53:39 PM, Maikuru wrote:
If God is all powerful, why did he let Disney buy Star Wars?

That seems more like the problem of evil than the omnipotence paradox.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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11/5/2012 5:18:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The omnipotence paradox, or at least this version of the omnipotence paradox, has been thoroughly destroyed every time I have ever seen it mentioned.

For starters, it depends on the type of omnipotence in question. For example, if we assume that God is omnipotence as in he can do anything, even the logically impossible, then the omnipotence paradox fails, because presupposing maximal omnipotence make logic irrelevant. God could create a stone he could not lift, then lift it.

Most Christians actually believe that God has to power to do anything that is logically consistent, mean God cannot realize contradictions. The user Inquiretruth referred to it as common omnipotence I believe. Since the paradox of the stone would require God to realize a contradiction, which cannot exist.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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11/5/2012 5:18:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/5/2012 5:11:02 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 11/4/2012 5:37:23 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
If God is all powerful then why are there non-believers?

Free will mostly.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: IF there is Free-Will, then why does your popey, priests, you and your catholic clowns Freely keep choosing to keep sinning?

Your Literal Saviour moi!
Muted
Posts: 377
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11/5/2012 5:44:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/5/2012 5:18:25 AM, Composer wrote:
At 11/5/2012 5:11:02 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 11/4/2012 5:37:23 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
If God is all powerful then why are there non-believers?

Free will mostly.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: IF there is Free-Will, then why does your popey, priests, you and your catholic clowns Freely keep choosing to keep sinning?

Your Literal Saviour moi!

Attention seeker! This is logically inconsistent.
Exterminate!!!!!!-Dalek.

The ability to speak does not make you a competent debater.

One does not simply do the rain dance.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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11/5/2012 7:26:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Sheesh, this thread has completely ignored the "Can he make a burrito so hot that even he can't eat it" version of this ever so intellectual ontological argument.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/5/2012 8:17:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Simple refutation is the paradox argument assumes a type of omnipotence with which paradoxes do not apply. Therefore it is self-refuting.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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11/5/2012 3:27:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/4/2012 5:33:13 PM, DanT wrote:
can he make a boat that even he cannot sink?

You are only exposing the limitations of our concept of omnipotence.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
DanielChristopherBlowes
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11/5/2012 3:28:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/4/2012 5:37:23 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
If God is all powerful then why are there non-believers?

He didn't, everyone suppresses the knowledge of God to keep on sinning..
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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11/5/2012 3:33:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/4/2012 9:49:37 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
If God is all powerful then how come he doesn't strike me down when I say "If you exist, you better strike me down you son of a b*tch."?

Because He loves you..

He's enabling your breath, every function of your body, right now..

He's enabling you to curse Him, and He is suffering it for you..

Jesus on the cross is a physical representation of the Invisible Father: wilfully allowing us to do as we please and saying 'I still love you, I forgive you.'
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
Konjim
Posts: 27
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11/6/2012 5:40:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/4/2012 5:37:23 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
If God is all powerful then why are there non-believers?

Here this show that you do not believe in god . means you have negative thinking in mind . God need not show his power , it can only fell by your own thinking
paintings of Krishna
Composer
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11/6/2012 6:15:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/5/2012 3:33:45 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/4/2012 9:49:37 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
If God is all powerful then how come he doesn't strike me down when I say "If you exist, you better strike me down you son of a b*tch."?

At 11/5/2012 3:33:45 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
Because He loves you..

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: My love is far far far far far far far far superior as e.g. I don't go around coersing and threatening people to believe the Truth, nor do I go around trying to kill everyone that stands in my way, as does your imaginary trinitarian child spiritually raping narcissistic bastard of a Story book god! (Apparently? LOL!) (Luke 1:35) Story book

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [ them ] before me. (Luke 19:27) KJV Story book

At 11/5/2012 3:33:45 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
He's enabling your breath, every function of your body, right now..

He's enabling you to curse Him, and He is suffering it for you..

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Nah! That's all thanks to Susan the Alien! I could be wrong; but so far there is absolutely NO legitimate evidence contradicting that as opposed to the manifestations & abilities of any genuine believer as contained in your preferred Story book that only exposes you and condemns you, annanicole, Dogknox and dupes like you now; as liars, frauds & jebus rejects!

At 11/5/2012 3:33:45 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
Jesus on the cross is a physical representation of the Invisible Father: wilfully allowing us to do as we please and saying 'I still love you, I forgive you.'

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Nah! biblical jebus is a Historical Myth some duped people have taken as literal and glorified without a shred of legitimate supportive evidence!

Should it ever appear outside of Story book Land, that Story book god remains as always totally Unworthy of my worship!

JREF is stillllllll waiting for dishonest and deceitful clowns like you to strut their stuff? LOL!

The rotting carcasses of your entire predecessors remain rotting in its wake!

Your Literal Saviour moi!
mindwarper10
Posts: 4
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11/6/2012 9:59:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/4/2012 6:40:17 PM, Muted wrote:
Is this one of those inane threads where people try to add an "all powerful" behind a nothing to make it a something?

Phrasing the statements in another way, "a stone too heavy for God to lift" is the same as saying "a stone too heavy to lift for a being who can lift anything." This contradicts itself and thus is a logical impossibility.

Simply adding "all-powerful" behind nothings does not make it somethings. It is a logical impossibility.

God can only do what is logically possible. Even though one should add an "all-powerful" behind it. Perhaps now the claim is raised, "Then He cannot be all-powerful!"

Well, then one must think, can anyone create a square circle? Is 2+2=10? Those are logical impossibilities because they contradict themselves and thus cannot happen.

Agreeing with this!
Not getting this thread...
logical fallacies? Perhaps intended for comedy?

The only somewhat logical statement is "If God is all powerful, why are there none believers?"
but even I know the answer to this.
Freedom of choice given to man by God.
At least that is what the Christians say, and it seems valid to me, after all I chose not to believe in God.
mindwarper10
Posts: 4
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11/6/2012 10:03:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/5/2012 5:44:07 AM, Muted wrote:
At 11/5/2012 5:18:25 AM, Composer wrote:
At 11/5/2012 5:11:02 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 11/4/2012 5:37:23 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
If God is all powerful then why are there non-believers?

Free will mostly.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: IF there is Free-Will, then why does your popey, priests, you and your catholic clowns Freely keep choosing to keep sinning?

Your Literal Saviour moi!

Attention seeker! This is logically inconsistent.

notice...nothing this person says is logically consistent...
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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11/6/2012 12:13:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/5/2012 3:33:45 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/4/2012 9:49:37 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
If God is all powerful then how come he doesn't strike me down when I say "If you exist, you better strike me down you son of a b*tch."?

Because He loves you..

He's enabling your breath, every function of your body, right now..

He's enabling you to curse Him, and He is suffering it for you..

Jesus on the cross is a physical representation of the Invisible Father: wilfully allowing us to do as we please and saying 'I still love you, I forgive you.'

Unless you don't accept Jesus as lord and savior, in which case his love and forgiveness will land you a one way ticket to roasting in hell for all eternity. Don't pretend like his love and forgiveness are unconditional. They are very conditional. And despite the fact that he created everyone knowing what they would be able to believe or not believe (no, you can't just will yourself into believing something is true, if deep down you are not convinced), knowing that if they were born into a religion other than Christianity that the odds of them ever accepting Christ are very minimal, his supposed love and forgiveness do not apply to these people - because of faults for only which God, in his omnipotence and omniscience, can be held responsible - and they are punished forever. All your talk about God's love and forgiveness is total BS.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/6/2012 12:16:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/6/2012 12:13:43 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 11/5/2012 3:33:45 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/4/2012 9:49:37 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
If God is all powerful then how come he doesn't strike me down when I say "If you exist, you better strike me down you son of a b*tch."?

Because He loves you..

He's enabling your breath, every function of your body, right now..

He's enabling you to curse Him, and He is suffering it for you..

Jesus on the cross is a physical representation of the Invisible Father: wilfully allowing us to do as we please and saying 'I still love you, I forgive you.'

Unless you don't accept Jesus as lord and savior, in which case his love and forgiveness will land you a one way ticket to roasting in hell for all eternity. Don't pretend like his love and forgiveness are unconditional. They are very conditional. And despite the fact that he created everyone knowing what they would be able to believe or not believe (no, you can't just will yourself into believing something is true, if deep down you are not convinced), knowing that if they were born into a religion other than Christianity that the odds of them ever accepting Christ are very minimal, his supposed love and forgiveness do not apply to these people - because of faults for only which God, in his omnipotence and omniscience, can be held responsible - and they are punished forever. All your talk about God's love and forgiveness is total BS.

No, actually, God will welcome into Heaven both the Jew and the Gentile.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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11/6/2012 12:22:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/6/2012 12:13:43 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 11/5/2012 3:33:45 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/4/2012 9:49:37 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
If God is all powerful then how come he doesn't strike me down when I say "If you exist, you better strike me down you son of a b*tch."?

Because He loves you..

He's enabling your breath, every function of your body, right now..

He's enabling you to curse Him, and He is suffering it for you..

Jesus on the cross is a physical representation of the Invisible Father: wilfully allowing us to do as we please and saying 'I still love you, I forgive you.'

Unless you don't accept Jesus as lord and savior, in which case his love and forgiveness will land you a one way ticket to roasting in hell for all eternity. Don't pretend like his love and forgiveness are unconditional. They are very conditional. And despite the fact that he created everyone knowing what they would be able to believe or not believe (no, you can't just will yourself into believing something is true, if deep down you are not convinced), knowing that if they were born into a religion other than Christianity that the odds of them ever accepting Christ are very minimal, his supposed love and forgiveness do not apply to these people - because of faults for only which God, in his omnipotence and omniscience, can be held responsible - and they are punished forever. All your talk about God's love and forgiveness is total BS.

Innnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnclusivism.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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11/6/2012 12:24:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/6/2012 12:16:56 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/6/2012 12:13:43 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 11/5/2012 3:33:45 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/4/2012 9:49:37 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
If God is all powerful then how come he doesn't strike me down when I say "If you exist, you better strike me down you son of a b*tch."?

Because He loves you..

He's enabling your breath, every function of your body, right now..

He's enabling you to curse Him, and He is suffering it for you..

Jesus on the cross is a physical representation of the Invisible Father: wilfully allowing us to do as we please and saying 'I still love you, I forgive you.'

Unless you don't accept Jesus as lord and savior, in which case his love and forgiveness will land you a one way ticket to roasting in hell for all eternity. Don't pretend like his love and forgiveness are unconditional. They are very conditional. And despite the fact that he created everyone knowing what they would be able to believe or not believe (no, you can't just will yourself into believing something is true, if deep down you are not convinced), knowing that if they were born into a religion other than Christianity that the odds of them ever accepting Christ are very minimal, his supposed love and forgiveness do not apply to these people - because of faults for only which God, in his omnipotence and omniscience, can be held responsible - and they are punished forever. All your talk about God's love and forgiveness is total BS.

No, actually, God will welcome into Heaven both the Jew and the Gentile.

This is a respectable, way more theologically/philosophically consistent position. you and pooka are my favorite christians on this site. And by the way, being Jewish, this makes me glad! So you're saying I can go on living a good, kind, moral life, and even if I honestly cannot bring myself to believe in God or be truly religious, I will go to heaven if it turns out both God and heaven exist?

Another question - is there any scriptural support for eternal hell (or any amount of hell) for non-believers? what about for your position that God will accept both Jew and Gentile? Just curious as I haven't read the New Testament in a lonnng time and you're no doubt more well versed in it than I am.
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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11/6/2012 12:27:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/6/2012 12:22:11 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 11/6/2012 12:13:43 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 11/5/2012 3:33:45 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/4/2012 9:49:37 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
If God is all powerful then how come he doesn't strike me down when I say "If you exist, you better strike me down you son of a b*tch."?

Because He loves you..

He's enabling your breath, every function of your body, right now..

He's enabling you to curse Him, and He is suffering it for you..

Jesus on the cross is a physical representation of the Invisible Father: wilfully allowing us to do as we please and saying 'I still love you, I forgive you.'

Unless you don't accept Jesus as lord and savior, in which case his love and forgiveness will land you a one way ticket to roasting in hell for all eternity. Don't pretend like his love and forgiveness are unconditional. They are very conditional. And despite the fact that he created everyone knowing what they would be able to believe or not believe (no, you can't just will yourself into believing something is true, if deep down you are not convinced), knowing that if they were born into a religion other than Christianity that the odds of them ever accepting Christ are very minimal, his supposed love and forgiveness do not apply to these people - because of faults for only which God, in his omnipotence and omniscience, can be held responsible - and they are punished forever. All your talk about God's love and forgiveness is total BS.

Innnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnclusivism.

As I said in my response to Ren, I can totally respect that, but is there any scriptural support for it, and what about the church's teachings which have seemed to largely reject inclusivism for years? In short how consistent is inclusivism with Christian scripture, church history, Christian history, etc? I am mostly ignorant on this subject and would love to to get some info...