Total Posts:41|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Who Killed Jesus,But Why?

falconduler
Posts: 228
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 4:57:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?

God.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
stubs
Posts: 1,887
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:02:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 4:57:51 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?

God.

God killed Jesus?
falconduler
Posts: 228
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:04:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 4:57:51 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?

God.

So God crucified his own son.. ? strange.. :"this is my beloved son in whom I Am well pleased"
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:09:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

Because different people had different reasons. The Father predestined Jesus to be killed in order to save sinners. Jesus got himself killed because he was in perfect submission to the will of the Father. The Jews turned Jesus over to be killed because they were afraid if they let Jesus cause a rukus during Passover, the Romans would use it as an excuse to take away their land and prevent them from practicing their religion. The Romans killed Jesus because he claimed to be a king, threatening the Pax Romana. These are all true. They're not mutually exclusive.

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?

Ultimately, Romans soldiers did it because they were under orders.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
falconduler
Posts: 228
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:12:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 5:09:12 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

Because different people had different reasons. The Father predestined Jesus to be killed in order to save sinners. Jesus got himself killed because he was in perfect submission to the will of the Father. The Jews turned Jesus over to be killed because they were afraid if they let Jesus cause a rukus during Passover, the Romans would use it as an excuse to take away their land and prevent them from practicing their religion. The Romans killed Jesus because he claimed to be a king, threatening the Pax Romana. These are all true. They're not mutually exclusive.

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?

Ultimately, Romans soldiers did it because they were under orders.

Why would any people or person want to kill someone who healed the sick and fed the poor?
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:14:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 5:12:11 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:09:12 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

Because different people had different reasons. The Father predestined Jesus to be killed in order to save sinners. Jesus got himself killed because he was in perfect submission to the will of the Father. The Jews turned Jesus over to be killed because they were afraid if they let Jesus cause a rukus during Passover, the Romans would use it as an excuse to take away their land and prevent them from practicing their religion. The Romans killed Jesus because he claimed to be a king, threatening the Pax Romana. These are all true. They're not mutually exclusive.

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?

Ultimately, Romans soldiers did it because they were under orders.

Why would any people or person want to kill someone who healed the sick and fed the poor?

Jealousy.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:14:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 5:12:11 PM, falconduler wrote:
Why would any people or person want to kill someone who healed the sick and fed the poor?

I just explained what different people's reasons were.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
falconduler
Posts: 228
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:20:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 5:14:11 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:12:11 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:09:12 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

Because different people had different reasons. The Father predestined Jesus to be killed in order to save sinners. Jesus got himself killed because he was in perfect submission to the will of the Father. The Jews turned Jesus over to be killed because they were afraid if they let Jesus cause a rukus during Passover, the Romans would use it as an excuse to take away their land and prevent them from practicing their religion. The Romans killed Jesus because he claimed to be a king, threatening the Pax Romana. These are all true. They're not mutually exclusive.

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?

Ultimately, Romans soldiers did it because they were under orders.

Why would any people or person want to kill someone who healed the sick and fed the poor?

Jealousy.

I know people who are jealous of Bill Gates , but does anyone really want to see him dragged through the streets and nailed on a cross? I know jealousy is a powerful emotion but...
falconduler
Posts: 228
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:25:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 5:09:12 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

Because different people had different reasons. The Father predestined Jesus to be killed in order to save sinners. Jesus got himself killed because he was in perfect submission to the will of the Father. The Jews turned Jesus over to be killed because they were afraid if they let Jesus cause a rukus during Passover, the Romans would use it as an excuse to take away their land and prevent them from practicing their religion. The Romans killed Jesus because he claimed to be a king, threatening the Pax Romana. These are all true. They're not mutually exclusive.

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?

Ultimately, Romans soldiers did it because they were under orders.

"My kingdom is not of this world" . " I find NO fault in this man" P.P.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:26:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 5:20:29 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:14:11 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Jealousy.

I know people who are jealous of Bill Gates , but does anyone really want to see him dragged through the streets and nailed on a cross? I know jealousy is a powerful emotion but...

Falconduler has a great point. I mean nobody has ever killed anybody out of jealousy, right? ;-)
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:28:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 5:20:29 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:14:11 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:12:11 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:09:12 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

Because different people had different reasons. The Father predestined Jesus to be killed in order to save sinners. Jesus got himself killed because he was in perfect submission to the will of the Father. The Jews turned Jesus over to be killed because they were afraid if they let Jesus cause a rukus during Passover, the Romans would use it as an excuse to take away their land and prevent them from practicing their religion. The Romans killed Jesus because he claimed to be a king, threatening the Pax Romana. These are all true. They're not mutually exclusive.

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?

Ultimately, Romans soldiers did it because they were under orders.

Why would any people or person want to kill someone who healed the sick and fed the poor?

Jealousy.

I know people who are jealous of Bill Gates , but does anyone really want to see him dragged through the streets and nailed on a cross? I know jealousy is a powerful emotion but...

Depends on how jealous you are. I'm sure there are people who would really want to see him dragged through the streets and nailed to a cross.

Additionally, you have the issue that Jesus was going around proving a bunch of these people to be liars and hypocrites, so there's that. If someone was constantly showing you how you contradicted yourself and were misrepresenting the truth, you'd probably get pretty pissed at him.

Matthew 27:17-18

'(17) They therefore being gathered together, Pilate said: Whom will you that I release to you, Barabbas, or Jesus that is called Christ? (18) For he knew that for envy they had delivered him.'
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
falconduler
Posts: 228
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:29:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 5:26:08 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:20:29 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:14:11 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Jealousy.

I know people who are jealous of Bill Gates , but does anyone really want to see him dragged through the streets and nailed on a cross? I know jealousy is a powerful emotion but...

Falconduler has a great point. I mean nobody has ever killed anybody out of jealousy, right? ;-)

Well look, if everyone murdered or plotted to commit murder everyone they were jealous of ,we would have quite a few homocides . the romans were not jealous . do you think they were?
falconduler
Posts: 228
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:31:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 5:28:35 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:20:29 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:14:11 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:12:11 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:09:12 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

Because different people had different reasons. The Father predestined Jesus to be killed in order to save sinners. Jesus got himself killed because he was in perfect submission to the will of the Father. The Jews turned Jesus over to be killed because they were afraid if they let Jesus cause a rukus during Passover, the Romans would use it as an excuse to take away their land and prevent them from practicing their religion. The Romans killed Jesus because he claimed to be a king, threatening the Pax Romana. These are all true. They're not mutually exclusive.

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?

Ultimately, Romans soldiers did it because they were under orders.

Why would any people or person want to kill someone who healed the sick and fed the poor?

Jealousy.

I know people who are jealous of Bill Gates , but does anyone really want to see him dragged through the streets and nailed on a cross? I know jealousy is a powerful emotion but...

Depends on how jealous you are. I'm sure there are people who would really want to see him dragged through the streets and nailed to a cross.

Additionally, you have the issue that Jesus was going around proving a bunch of these people to be liars and hypocrites, so there's that. If someone was constantly showing you how you contradicted yourself and were misrepresenting the truth, you'd probably get pretty pissed at him.

Matthew 27:17-18

'(17) They therefore being gathered together, Pilate said: Whom will you that I release to you, Barabbas, or Jesus that is called Christ? (18) For he knew that for envy they had delivered him.'

Pilate KNEW or Pilate thought?
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:32:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 5:29:47 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:26:08 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:20:29 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:14:11 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Jealousy.

I know people who are jealous of Bill Gates , but does anyone really want to see him dragged through the streets and nailed on a cross? I know jealousy is a powerful emotion but...

Falconduler has a great point. I mean nobody has ever killed anybody out of jealousy, right? ;-)

Well look, if everyone murdered or plotted to commit murder everyone they were jealous of ,we would have quite a few homocides . the romans were not jealous . do you think they were?

It depends on who's jealous. If a random person is jealous, it doesn't really matter.

I mean, if I'm jealous of you, it's not going to come to anything, probably.

But if we've got the King of Despotia, who's a huge egotistical tyrant with great resources, and for whatever reason he gets jealous of you, don't plan on spending your retirement fund.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:33:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 5:31:16 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:28:35 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:20:29 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:14:11 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:12:11 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:09:12 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

Because different people had different reasons. The Father predestined Jesus to be killed in order to save sinners. Jesus got himself killed because he was in perfect submission to the will of the Father. The Jews turned Jesus over to be killed because they were afraid if they let Jesus cause a rukus during Passover, the Romans would use it as an excuse to take away their land and prevent them from practicing their religion. The Romans killed Jesus because he claimed to be a king, threatening the Pax Romana. These are all true. They're not mutually exclusive.

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?

Ultimately, Romans soldiers did it because they were under orders.

Why would any people or person want to kill someone who healed the sick and fed the poor?

Jealousy.

I know people who are jealous of Bill Gates , but does anyone really want to see him dragged through the streets and nailed on a cross? I know jealousy is a powerful emotion but...

Depends on how jealous you are. I'm sure there are people who would really want to see him dragged through the streets and nailed to a cross.

Additionally, you have the issue that Jesus was going around proving a bunch of these people to be liars and hypocrites, so there's that. If someone was constantly showing you how you contradicted yourself and were misrepresenting the truth, you'd probably get pretty pissed at him.

Matthew 27:17-18

'(17) They therefore being gathered together, Pilate said: Whom will you that I release to you, Barabbas, or Jesus that is called Christ? (18) For he knew that for envy they had delivered him.'

Pilate KNEW or Pilate thought?

I would say he knew. Not with 100% certainty, but if dragged some random guy before you and failed to bring severe charges against him yet declared he was deserving of the death penalty, you'd suspect an ulterior motive, wouldn't you?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
falconduler
Posts: 228
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:40:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 5:32:20 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:29:47 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:26:08 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:20:29 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:14:11 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Jealousy.

I know people who are jealous of Bill Gates , but does anyone really want to see him dragged through the streets and nailed on a cross? I know jealousy is a powerful emotion but...

Falconduler has a great point. I mean nobody has ever killed anybody out of jealousy, right? ;-)

Well look, if everyone murdered or plotted to commit murder everyone they were jealous of ,we would have quite a few homocides . the romans were not jealous . do you think they were?

It depends on who's jealous. If a random person is jealous, it doesn't really matter.

I mean, if I'm jealous of you, it's not going to come to anything, probably.

But if we've got the King of Despotia, who's a huge egotistical tyrant with great resources, and for whatever reason he gets jealous of you, don't plan on spending your retirement fund.

Jealousy is jealousy . but that's the question . jealous of what? would the pope of rome ever be jealous of a evangelical street preacher from oklahoma city?
would Putin of russia be jealous of mario cuomo?
DavidJames1
Posts: 122
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:45:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?

Adam's sin means that all people grow old and die. Romans 5:12

This is contrary to God's original purpose. Right after this episode in Eden God sorted out another route to fulfilling his purpose. Gen 3:15. The seed that would be bruised in the heel is Jesus.
In fact John 3:16 shows how God loves us so much that he was willing to send his own Son to die for us. Jesus also showed great love by submitting himself to this 'fate.' As Jesus helped God in creating us, he was very fond of humans. Prov 8vs30 (I think).
This would of course have been a really hard thing for God to do! This whole emotive situation was wonderfully acted out for us humans to be able to relate to it by Abraham being ordered to sacrifice his son.

Why was the sacrifice necessary though?

A perfect man had lost life for all of us and made us all imperfect. This can be illustrated by the use of a loaf tin. IF your loaf tin got adent in it, all the loaves you subsequently bake in it will have that 'dent.'
Because we are all descended from Adam, we are all imperfect. Thus no imperfect human could repay this price.
This is why a corresponding ransom was necessary. Jesus was a sinless perfect man without an imperfect human father. That is why Jesus had to die.

What a loving arrangement for the benefit of us sinful, thankless humans!
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:56:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 5:29:47 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:26:08 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:20:29 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:14:11 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Jealousy.

I know people who are jealous of Bill Gates , but does anyone really want to see him dragged through the streets and nailed on a cross? I know jealousy is a powerful emotion but...

Falconduler has a great point. I mean nobody has ever killed anybody out of jealousy, right? ;-)

Well look, if everyone murdered or plotted to commit murder everyone they were jealous of ,we would have quite a few homocides . the romans were not jealous . do you think they were?

No. I already told you why I think the Romans killed Jesus. But the fact that people don't usually kill other people out of jealousy doesn't mean that nobody ever does. So it's an irrelevant observation.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 5:59:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 4:57:51 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?

God.

1. IF Story book jebus was also an immortal Fully god-person wrapped in human flesh, then why would another immortal god-person kill one of its two other god-person selfs and -

2. How does an Immortal Fully god-person manage to be fully literally killed by anything allegedly co-equal to itself?

(Story book evidence pretty pretty please? LOL!)


Your mentor & literal Saviour moi!
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 6:05:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 5:09:12 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

Because different people had different reasons. The Father predestined Jesus to be killed in order to save sinners. Jesus got himself killed because he was in perfect submission to the will of the Father. The Jews turned Jesus over to be killed because they were afraid if they let Jesus cause a rukus during Passover, the Romans would use it as an excuse to take away their land and prevent them from practicing their religion. The Romans killed Jesus because he claimed to be a king, threatening the Pax Romana. These are all true. They're not mutually exclusive.

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?

Ultimately, Romans soldiers did it because they were under orders.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: How did humans (e.g. Roman soldiers) manage to kill an Immortal Fully god-person?

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster!
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 6:40:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 5:28:35 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Depends on how jealous you are.

The worst offender of course being your alleged catholic trinitarian god(s) (e.g. 1. Exod. 20:5) RSV Story book 1966 catholic version

At 11/10/2012 5:28:35 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
I'm sure there are people who would really want to see him dragged through the streets and nailed to a cross.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Following the example of the worst offenders of course, being your alleged catholic trinitarian god persons; that wanted that & let it happen to their other Fully god-person (apparently? LOL!) so any dutiful believers are commanded to follow their trinitarian ' hypocrytical god of loves ' vicious examples? LOL!

e.g 2. But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [ them ] before me. (Luke 19:27) RSV Story book 1966 catholic version

At 11/10/2012 5:28:35 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Additionally, you have the issue that Jesus was going around proving a bunch of these people to be liars and hypocrites, so there's that. If someone was constantly showing you how you contradicted yourself and were misrepresenting the truth, you'd probably get pretty pissed at him.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: When the Story book Jews read e.g. Deut. 24:16 & Ezek. 18:20 they discovered how Story book jebus had hypocrytically lied and deceived them, so according to you they were justified and got pissed off with the Romans & jebus that lied & deceived them and because Story book god was also the jealous type, they felt justified in having the lying hypocrytical bastard jebus removed from humanity!

Your mentor & literal Saviour moi!
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 6:43:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 5:12:11 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/10/2012 5:09:12 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

Because different people had different reasons. The Father predestined Jesus to be killed in order to save sinners. Jesus got himself killed because he was in perfect submission to the will of the Father. The Jews turned Jesus over to be killed because they were afraid if they let Jesus cause a rukus during Passover, the Romans would use it as an excuse to take away their land and prevent them from practicing their religion. The Romans killed Jesus because he claimed to be a king, threatening the Pax Romana. These are all true. They're not mutually exclusive.

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?

Ultimately, Romans soldiers did it because they were under orders.

Why would any people or person want to kill someone who healed the sick and fed the poor?

Within the social and political context of his day, Jesus was a dangerous revolutionary in every sense of the word; he wanted nothing less than the transformation of all the laws and conditions of his world into those of the Kingdom of God. He wanted to empower all human beings with their divine inclusion in that Kingdom and he powerfully expressed a vision that exposed the naked corruptions of all forms of external power, political, religious, social, as well as the gender based and grossly patriarchal misogyny of the day.

He "astonished" people with a transforming vision in which all the lies of external power of every form were unmasked and which would have resulted in the most radical changes to the day"s social and political power structures imaginable. He was shaking the very foundations of all of the false constructs of the corrupt powers of the day and people were listening to him.

He was imparting a vision that was absolutely lethal to both the Roman occupation"s imposed order and that of the corrupted religious "mediators" in the city. It is for this that the ruling powers conspired to kill this dangerous Rabbi and it is why the Romans wanted to make an example of him for anyone who had been listening to his incendiary message of equality and concerted effort for justice and compassion for all.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 6:47:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 5:32:20 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
But if we've got the King of Despotia, who's a huge egotistical tyrant with great resources, and for whatever reason he gets jealous of you, don't plan on spending your retirement fund.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Time therefore to give the biggest egotistical tyrant (Luke 19:27), hypocrytical & jealous (Exod. 20:5) despot with the largest resorces ' the flick ' = your catholic god!

Your mentor & literal Saviour, moi!
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 7:21:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 6:43:17 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
Within the social and political context of his day, Jesus was a dangerous revolutionary in every sense of the word; he wanted nothing less than the transformation of all the laws and conditions of his world into those of the Kingdom of God. He wanted to empower all human beings with their divine inclusion in that Kingdom and he powerfully expressed a vision that exposed the naked corruptions of all forms of external power, political, religious, social, as well as the gender based and grossly patriarchal misogyny of the day.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: And in Story book land went about that by choosing 12 males (NO FEMALES) as his chosen apostles? LOL!

Next!

Your mentor & literal Saviour moi!
DanT
Posts: 5,693
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2012 7:26:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?

Romans killed him for breaking the Pax Romana. When he turned over the table in the temple he signed his own death warrant. There wee very few roman soldiers in Israel, because they were stretched thin throughout the empire. Therefore it was very important to keep an eye out for trouble makers who might be stirring up civil unrest. Crucifixion was mainly employed by the Romans as a tool to warn the rest of the population to behave themselves. The Romans likely were following his rise to fame from early on, growing ever more cautious about his religious movement and especially his anti-roman sentiments. When he turned over the table it was the last straw, because he started getting violent (in the eyes of the Romans). It was at that point they decided to nip it in the bud.

Christians later blamed the Jews because Pontius Pilatus washed his hands of the responsibility. Early Christians were a Jewish sect, but after Christianity became the religion of Rome, they were seen as two different groups.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/11/2012 1:51:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 4:57:51 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

do you really know who did it? if yes,then why and what for?

God.

lol
signature
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/11/2012 5:20:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

do you really know who did it?

Obviously not, aside historical record, which is largely scripture-based. The general consensus is that Jesus existed in the Jewish community, which was entirely separate of the Roman community -- probably the way Hasidic Jews are today. Different clothing, different mentality, different culture, and entirely exclusive, but living right next door. In similar fashion (which isn't surprising -- the Roman government is a predecessor to our and function quite similarly in several ways), the Jews of that time abided by a separate law and were policed internally. The culture is obviously very religious, so if you could imagine, a gadfly going around claiming to be the direct word, will, and son of God who is introducing a new testament into the scripture would be rather insulting and infuriating.

If you want an in-depth portrait of how and why a gadfly ends up executed, read The Death of Socrates. However, as the story goes, the Jews did not themselves, within their community, crucify Jesus. They instead brought him before the Romans to have him put to death. The way they saw it, they didn't even want to associate him with their community. They, instead, wanted to present him as a general nuisance, a thorn in both the side of the Jewish and Roman communities alike.

From the way it's written in the Bible and related doctrine, the Romans were only mildly familiar with who Jesus was, and had no real qualms about him. However, the Jewish community (or, representatives thereof) demanded that he's executed, given grievances that summed him as being a gadfly, which (considering Socrates), is a completely legitimate reason to execute someone in the eyes of the Romans. Pontius Pilate, who was essentially in charge (he was a Roman general or something like this), was the guy who made the call, and it appeared that he didn't really want to. He went through with it so that he didn't seem weak or as though he couldn't fulfill his responsibilities. But, I think his wife had a dream about it and wanted to stop him...??? I don't remember, perhaps I'm getting that from some cinematic dramatization from the annals of the back of my mind.

In terms of why God allowed it to happen -- well, this is what God calls his sacrifice. He wanted to send someone to bring us the Gospel -- good news about the fact that He no longer holds vengeance for our wickedness -- although He knew we'd kill the messenger. People seem to want to center their entire theological perspective on this fact, but I think it's just about everything else about Christianity that gives it meaning, rather than simply the fact that the Jews demanded the Romans tortue Jesus to death for being annoying and perceptively offensive.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/11/2012 6:43:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/11/2012 5:20:08 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/10/2012 4:40:48 PM, falconduler wrote:
Given the usa and europe are culturally christian ,why is there so much disagreement as to who and why was the founder of the christian faith killed?

do you really know who did it?

Obviously not, aside historical record, which is largely scripture-based. The general consensus is that Jesus existed in the Jewish community, which was entirely separate of the Roman community -- probably the way Hasidic Jews are today.

The Jews were living in an occupied state, they were under Roman rule.

Different clothing, different mentality, different culture, and entirely exclusive, but living right next door.

Not entirely exclusive and right next door, conquered and living underneath the authority of the occupying Roman rule.

In similar fashion (which isn't surprising -- the Roman government is a predecessor to our and function quite similarly in several ways), the Jews of that time abided by a separate law and were policed internally. The culture is obviously very religious, so if you could imagine, a gadfly going around claiming to be the direct word, will, and son of God who is introducing a new testament into the scripture would be rather insulting and infuriating.

If you want an in-depth portrait of how and why a gadfly ends up executed, read The Death of Socrates. However, as the story goes, the Jews did not themselves, within their community, crucify Jesus. They instead brought him before the Romans to have him put to death. The way they saw it, they didn't even want to associate him with their community. They, instead, wanted to present him as a general nuisance, a thorn in both the side of the Jewish and Roman communities alike.

From the way it's written in the Bible and related doctrine, the Romans were only mildly familiar with who Jesus was, and had no real qualms about him. However, the Jewish community (or, representatives thereof) demanded that he's executed, given grievances that summed him as being a gadfly, which (considering Socrates), is a completely legitimate reason to execute someone in the eyes of the Romans. Pontius Pilate, who was essentially in charge (he was a Roman general or something like this), was the guy who made the call, and it appeared that he didn't really want to. He went through with it so that he didn't seem weak or as though he couldn't fulfill his responsibilities. But, I think his wife had a dream about it and wanted to stop him...??? I don't remember, perhaps I'm getting that from some cinematic dramatization from the annals of the back of my mind.

Under Roman law, it was illegal for the Jews to put a man to death, they had to take him to the Romans for execution. Crucifixion was a Roman thing, under the laws of a free Jewish state, the Jews would have stoned him to death.

Pilot was the Prefect of the Roman province of Judaea, his authority was over the Jews and it was conferred by the Emperor, his job was to keep the Jews under control so as to avoid resistance to the occupying army, his sole function was to avoid a rebellion.

In terms of why God allowed it to happen -- well, this is what God calls his sacrifice. He wanted to send someone to bring us the Gospel -- good news about the fact that He no longer holds vengeance for our wickedness -- although He knew we'd kill the messenger. People seem to want to center their entire theological perspective on this fact, but I think it's just about everything else about Christianity that gives it meaning, rather than simply the fact that the Jews demanded the Romans tortue Jesus to death for being annoying and perceptively offensive.

It wasn't just annoying, he had claimed equality with God, a blasphemy punishable by death, and he had caused quite a spectacle in the Temple challenging the religious ruling authority, that sealed his fate. The occupying Roman army just wanted to avoid unrest, this man held the potential to cause an uprising, he was crucified as an example to his followers to avoid a rebellious response to his execution.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater