Total Posts:10|Showing Posts:1-10
Jump to topic:

The Church Is Relevant to Salvation

Murphy
Posts: 22
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/12/2012 4:24:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Common sense is logical and biblical

Common sense is defined in the dictionary as sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts.

Facts:

1. The Lord Jesus Christ established a church. (Mt.16:18)

2. He taught the apostles his teachings. (Mt.28:20)

3. His teachings came from the Father (Jn.7:16)

4. Rejecting His teachings is rejecting Christ himself and the Father. (Jn.12:48)

Hence, no man in his right senses can say that the Lord Jesus Christ is non-sensible and illogical! Part of his teachings tells us that a preacher must be sensible.

I TIMOTHY 3:2 (MODERN KING JAMES VERSION)

Then it behooves the overseer to be without reproach, husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, well-ordered, hospitable, apt at teaching,

The Lord Jesus Christ is without doubt the most sensible preacher of all times!

1. He established a church!

MATTHEW 16:18

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Is it necessary for Jesus Christ to establish a church? Logically it is, and so He would! It follows that one is illogical if he does not accept the importance of the church. How did Christ regard the church? He loved it and gave his life for it.

EPHESIANS 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

In human terms, Christ can be said to be the Church"s better half! It will grossly be against common sense and logic if one says that the church is not important to salvation. While Jesus Christ is the Savior, He is going to save the church.

EPHESIANS 5:23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body.

Which is the body?

COLOSSIANS 1:18

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Are there illogical people who, in the absence of common sense, say that the church is not needed for salvation? Here are some of them.

A. Pat Robertson

B. Harold Camping

C. Apollo C. Quiboloy
2. The church is a part of His teachings!

The word "church" appears 76 times in the New Testament of the King James Version of the Bible, 73 times in the Revised Standard Version, 77 times in the Catholic Authorized Version or the Douay-Rheims Version, 74 times in The American Standard Version, 73 times in the Codex Sinaiticus in English Translation and 86 times in the newly translated Good News Bible of the Catholic and the Protestant.

The above statistics sustain the fact that the church is a vital teaching of Christ and the New Testament!

It is not true that the church age has ended like what Harold Camping and Apollo Quiboloy say. The church was intended by God to be the proclaimer of his wisdom until eternity.

EPHESIANS 3:10-11

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

At the end of this age, the church will be presented to Himself blameless.

EPHESIANS 5:27

That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Anybody therefore who says that the church age has ended is a liar!

3. The teachings of the Lord Jesus came from the Father.

JOHN 7:16

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

4. Rejecting the teachings of Christ is rejecting the Father! That"s the logic of it and that has biblical basis!

JOHN 13:20

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

LUKE 10:16

He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

And most importantly: Rejecting the teachings of Christ (part of which is extensively about the church) is rejecting Christ himself.

JOHN 12:48

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Conclusion:

It is therefore a heap of stupidity to say the least that the church is not necessary for salvation!

Is there salvation outside the church established by the Lord Jesus Christ?
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/12/2012 7:27:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
"It is therefore a heap of stupidity to say the least that the church is not necessary for salvation!"

The saved are added to the church. The church is the saved.

"Is there salvation outside the church established by the Lord Jesus Christ?"

No
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/12/2012 8:36:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/12/2012 4:24:26 AM, Murphy wrote:
Common sense is logical and biblical

Common sense is defined in the dictionary as sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts.

Facts:

1. The Lord Jesus Christ established a church. (Mt.16:18)

2. He taught the apostles his teachings. (Mt.28:20)

3. His teachings came from the Father (Jn.7:16)

4. Rejecting His teachings is rejecting Christ himself and the Father. (Jn.12:48)

Hence, no man in his right senses can say that the Lord Jesus Christ is non-sensible and illogical! Part of his teachings tells us that a preacher must be sensible.

I TIMOTHY 3:2 (MODERN KING JAMES VERSION)

Then it behooves the overseer to be without reproach, husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, well-ordered, hospitable, apt at teaching,

The Lord Jesus Christ is without doubt the most sensible preacher of all times!

1. He established a church!

MATTHEW 16:18

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Is it necessary for Jesus Christ to establish a church? Logically it is, and so He would! It follows that one is illogical if he does not accept the importance of the church. How did Christ regard the church? He loved it and gave his life for it.

EPHESIANS 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

In human terms, Christ can be said to be the Church"s better half! It will grossly be against common sense and logic if one says that the church is not important to salvation. While Jesus Christ is the Savior, He is going to save the church.

EPHESIANS 5:23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body.

Which is the body?

COLOSSIANS 1:18

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Are there illogical people who, in the absence of common sense, say that the church is not needed for salvation? Here are some of them.

A. Pat Robertson



B. Harold Camping



C. Apollo C. Quiboloy
2. The church is a part of His teachings!

The word "church" appears 76 times in the New Testament of the King James Version of the Bible, 73 times in the Revised Standard Version, 77 times in the Catholic Authorized Version or the Douay-Rheims Version, 74 times in The American Standard Version, 73 times in the Codex Sinaiticus in English Translation and 86 times in the newly translated Good News Bible of the Catholic and the Protestant.

The above statistics sustain the fact that the church is a vital teaching of Christ and the New Testament!

It is not true that the church age has ended like what Harold Camping and Apollo Quiboloy say. The church was intended by God to be the proclaimer of his wisdom until eternity.

EPHESIANS 3:10-11

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

At the end of this age, the church will be presented to Himself blameless.

EPHESIANS 5:27

That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Anybody therefore who says that the church age has ended is a liar!

3. The teachings of the Lord Jesus came from the Father.

JOHN 7:16

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

4. Rejecting the teachings of Christ is rejecting the Father! That"s the logic of it and that has biblical basis!

JOHN 13:20

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

LUKE 10:16

He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

And most importantly: Rejecting the teachings of Christ (part of which is extensively about the church) is rejecting Christ himself.

JOHN 12:48

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Conclusion:

It is therefore a heap of stupidity to say the least that the church is not necessary for salvation!

Is there salvation outside the church established by the Lord Jesus Christ?

If you accept Christ you are the Church, His body..

How could you be saved outside of it?
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/13/2012 12:07:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Of course. I love this quote, mind if I keep it?

"It is therefore a heap of stupidity to say the least that the church is not necessary for salvation!"
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Murphy
Posts: 22
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/14/2012 9:06:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
(RSV) 1 Corinthians 5:13 God judges those outside. "Drive out the wicked person from among you."
Dogknox
Posts: 5,075
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/18/2012 7:37:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/14/2012 9:06:04 PM, Murphy wrote:
(RSV) 1 Corinthians 5:13 God judges those outside. "Drive out the wicked person from among you."
Good thread... LOGIC Common sense alone points to Jesus!

God loves all men weather they are IN his Church or not!!
Jesus died for all men!

14 For Christ"s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.


But not all are saved!! It can't be something Jesus did that they are lost.. He died for "ALL"! It must be something men do that they are not saved!

Murphy As you correctly pointed out in your thread.. LOGIC SAYS also... Accepting Christ means, accepting Jesus' words!

Jesus said... "I command you... you must love"!

LOGIC must conclude.. ALL are lost that do not love!

Love alone saves... (GIVING of self from the heart saves)!

Dogknox
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2012 2:43:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: You continue to lie!

ALL Supernatural god(s) are 100% human invention!

Salvation is just simply yet another human invention!

Your mentor & literal Saviour moi!
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2012 2:55:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 2:43:03 AM, Composer wrote:
Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: You continue to lie!

ALL Supernatural god(s) are 100% human invention!

Salvation is just simply yet another human invention!

Your mentor & literal Saviour moi!

Hey there, Composer.

I'm still waiting for you to prove:

A) Story book Jebus was an eternal Jew
B) Story book Jebus never existed
C) Story book Jebus never claimed to be God

Now I suppose I can add:

D) All supernatural gods are 100% human invention
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2012 3:39:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 2:43:03 AM, Composer wrote:
Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: You continue to lie!

ALL Supernatural god(s) are 100% human invention!

Salvation is just simply yet another human invention!

Your mentor & literal Saviour moi!

At 11/19/2012 2:55:19 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Hey there, Composer.

I'm still waiting for you to prove:

A) Story book Jebus was an eternal Jew

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: I'm still waiting for you to answer my initial question " Was Story book jebus born a Jew? "

Answer that & the Story book will confirm what I know it states already! Then I'll (as always) again be vindicated!

At 11/19/2012 2:55:19 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
B) Story book Jebus never existed

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Story book did exist within the confines of the biblical Story book!

Your problem remains; legitimately showing it literally existed Historically Outside of your preferred Story book? Hearsay doesn't cut it for you & that's at best ALL dupes like you have!

At 11/19/2012 2:55:19 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
C) Story book Jebus never claimed to be God

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: There are absolutely NO Story book passages to support you on this either, else you would have quoted them along with legitimate evidential support, which you have none! So unless you can muster some ' you think do support your claim ' for me to correct you on it/them, then so far as always, I remain 100% vindicated & YOU a liar, fraud & Story book jebus' reject!

At 11/19/2012 2:55:19 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Now I suppose I can add:

D) All supernatural gods are 100% human invention

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Have you had visits from a Supernatural god(s) that convinced you to believe they literally exist?

Tell us all about it IF you did along with your supportive evidence(s)?

The JREFoundation will be fascinated to hear from you, to give you ample opportunity to provide such evidence required of their literal existence as you undoubtedly claim to have?

Then again I know your efforts at JREF will turn out the same as ALL your predecessors = 100% BS!

Your mentor & literal Saviour moi!

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster!
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2012 3:43:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 3:39:45 AM, Composer wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:43:03 AM, Composer wrote:
Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: You continue to lie!

ALL Supernatural god(s) are 100% human invention!

Salvation is just simply yet another human invention!

Your mentor & literal Saviour moi!


At 11/19/2012 2:55:19 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Hey there, Composer.

I'm still waiting for you to prove:

A) Story book Jebus was an eternal Jew

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: I'm still waiting for you to answer my initial question " Was Story book jebus born a Jew? "

I don't know.

Answer that & the Story book will confirm what I know it states already! Then I'll (as always) again be vindicated!

At 11/19/2012 2:55:19 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
B) Story book Jebus never existed

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Story book did exist within the confines of the biblical Story book!

Your problem remains; legitimately showing it literally existed Historically Outside of your preferred Story book? Hearsay doesn't cut it for you & that's at best ALL dupes like you have!

So do you have any evidence he didn't exist? Besides absence of evidence, which isn't evidence of absence.

At 11/19/2012 2:55:19 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
C) Story book Jebus never claimed to be God

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: There are absolutely NO Story book passages to support you on this either, else you would have quoted them along with legitimate evidential support, which you have none! So unless you can muster some ' you think do support your claim ' for me to correct you on it/them, then so far as always, I remain 100% vindicated & YOU a liar, fraud & Story book jebus' reject!

'His nature is, from the first, divine, and yet he did not see, in the rank of Godhead, a prize to be coveted;' - Philippians 2:6

At 11/19/2012 2:55:19 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
Now I suppose I can add:

D) All supernatural gods are 100% human invention

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Have you had visits from a Supernatural god(s) that convinced you to believe they literally exist?

Nope.

Tell us all about it IF you did along with your supportive evidence(s)?

Didn't.

The JREFoundation will be fascinated to hear from you, to give you ample opportunity to provide such evidence required of their literal existence as you undoubtedly claim to have?

What does that have to do with anything?

Then again I know your efforts at JREF will turn out the same as ALL your predecessors = 100% BS!

That's not a proof that all supernatural gods are 100% human invention.

Next time, can you try to actually respond to me instead of just babbling nonsense?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13