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Questions for theists to answer

Ruckmanite
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11/15/2012 3:47:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Recently, I received an email from an atheist asking for any and all theists to answer his questions. I figured DDO should have the opportunity to view them. Here they are:

. Before we start (Bonus Question) -
What is the incredibly important doctrinal difference that Requires/explains
the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?

1. If your God wants us to worship him through our own free will,
why does he threaten us with Hell?
If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, it isn't free will.
Clarify your answer.

2. Why would your God deliberately cause sinners to sin
(cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus
where Jehovah says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart.").
Are these sinners still responsible for the sins
which your God forces them, against their will, to commit?
Justify your answer.

3. If Jesus did have to die, why did someone (specifically, Judas)
have to be damned in order accomplish the death and resurrection of Jesus?
Jesus was at least a volunteer for the cross;
I doubt that your God asked Judas if he was willing to go to Hell
just so that the resurrection could be accomplished.
Explain your thoughts.

4. If Judas was willing to go to Hell for humanity (see #3),
didn't he make more of a sacrifice than Jesus,
who spent only three hours in pain?
Shouldn't we then be worshipping Judas?

5. Do you believe that your God is anti-homosexual?
If so, explain why he would create homosexuals in the first place.
If not, refute or explain away Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27.36.
(For the record, I am a straight male, but I think Bi-chicks Rock!)

6. Explain how your God can be "Just and Merciful" in light of Exodus 20:5.52.
Explain why your "Just and Merciful" God sent bears to kill forty-two (42) children
who called his prophet Elisha/Elijah/Elija "baldhead/baldheaded" (See 2 Kings 2:23-24).

7. If prostitution is wrong, why are there so many examples of it in Genesis?
For instance, Genesis 19:8 where Lot offers his daughters to a mob so that
his guests can avoid being gang raped. Explain.
(For the record, I have never been with a prostitute, nor do I intend to.
But, I also see nothing wrong with it.
Statistical Facts prove that locations around with world
where Prostitution is legalized or socially acceptable,
the Sex-Crime rate ratio is EXTREMELY low or almost nil.)

8. Explain why your God created humans as imperfect,
then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them,
then punishes us for not living up to his standards.
Doesn't this also constitute as "entrapment"?
If you wish to dispute that we are or are not imperfect, explain:
Tonsils Removal/Tonsilectomy, Appendix Removal/Appendicitis, Foreskin Removal
(This is no longer just religious based, as it's become a cleanliness issue as well),
Common Colds/Influenza, Cancer, AIDS, etc. (See Question # 26)

9. Why was it OK for the ancient Israelites to sacrifice animals to their God,
while it is wrong for modern religions to sacrifice animals to their God(s)?
Justify your answer.
(For the record, I do not believe in sacrificing animals,
as this is just inhumane and a waste.
I am not a Vegetarian or a Vegan, as I do in fact eat meat,
but the outright killing of animals for worship is just wrong.
It's one thing to kill an animal to eat and survive,
but it's another thing to kill it just for worshipping purposes.)

10. Why would your God want to damn people by making them believe false things?
(See 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12).

11. Would it be good for men to castrate themselves?
Justify your answer, taking Matthew 19:12 into account.
(For the record, there is NO way in HELL I would ever castrate myself!)

12. In view of Matthew 6:5-6,
shouldn't prayer in public schools be discouraged/encouraged?
Support your answer with scripture quotes.

13. Do you feel that the last words of Christ were significant?
If so, why do the four gospels attribute three different sentences to Christ as his last?
(Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34: "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?";
Luke 23:46: "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit"; John 19:30: "It is finished").
(Let's also keep in mind that 3 of these four books
were written WELL after Christ had died/was killed
and also that 3 of those men who wrote those books
weren't even alive when Christ was alive/killed.)

14. If your God is everywhere at the same time,
and hell is the absence of (or separation from) your God,
how can he be Omnipotent?
This is clearly a contradiction in terms, is it not?

15. Have you read the ENTIRE Bible?
If not, how can you be devoted enough to try and convert me to a religion
that you don't know that much about?
Isn't knowing as much as possible about something necessary to understanding it?
Isn't understanding something necessary to being completely devoted to it?
(For the record, I HAVE read the ENTIRE Roman Catholic Bible,
as well as the King James Version, the Satanic Bible, the Koran,
the Torah, the Transformer, the Mormon Book of Faith, etc.
I collect religious tomes, it's a hobby of mine.)

16. Explain why, if your God loves us ALL,
more than half of us are going to Hell after we die.
(According to the Catholic and King James Bibles)
Specifically, refute or explain the following words of Christ,
as presented in the New Testament:
"Many are called but few are chosen,"
and
"Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it."
If your God loves ALL of us,
couldn't he find a better way to allow us ALL into heaven?

17. Was Jesus' three (3) days in Hell really an ultimate sacrifice,
when according to the Bible
more than half of humanity are going to spend Eternity there? (see question #16)

18. If it was foretold that Jesus was to be crucified,
and if he knew this beforehand,
and if he was the true Son of your God,
why did he do everything he could to avoid being crucified?
(See, for instance, Matthew 26:39).

19. As a Roman Catholic, please justify the reason for:
The Spanish Inquisition, The Crusades, the Templars,
and other persecutions of "Heretics" throughout the centuries,
concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists,
and the Manichaeans were so persecuted.

20. Explain why Roman Catholics/Christians pursued, tortured,
and killed people who were not Christian for hundred of years,
based solely on orders from religious zealots and their "faith".
(See Question # 19)

21. Explain why I should believe that your God
is ALL-GOOD when the only real information we have about him is in the Bible,
(a book handwritten by men, normal everyday men) which clearly describes him
as both good and evil.
(See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34,
Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5,
Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36,
and Jeremiah 18:11 for just a small sample of Biblical Passages
which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).
Please explain Isaiah 45:7 in the light of God's severe punishment for sin.

22. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong,
the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women.
Answering this question entails refuting 1 Corinthians 11 and 1 Tim 2:11-15
NOTE: Under NO circumstances will I believe that discrimination against women
solely on the basis of their sex/gender is morally acceptable.
(Also, why are only men allowed to be priests in the Roman Catholic Religion?
(For the record: I am a Man, not a Woman.)

23. Explain why, when slavery is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports slavery.
Answering this question entails refuting 1 Peter 2:18.
NOTE: Under NO circumstances will I believe that slavery
is an acceptable way to run a society.
(For the record: I am a White Male and I've never been a slave.)
Let your words be the genuine picture of your heart- John Wesley
Money is a horrid thing to follow, but a charming thing to meet-Henry James
Ruckmanite
Posts: 289
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11/15/2012 3:50:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
24. Explain why, if Jesus was perfect,
he thought that the end of the world was coming soon,
when it has clearly not come yet.
See Matthew 16:27-28.28.

25. If your God is kind and gentle, why did he create parasites?
Or for that matter, why create ANY form of Disease?
IE: Aids, Cancer, Tumors, Cysts, etc.
Does your God truly believe in Population Control?
If so, why?
(See Question # 8)

26. Why should we accept the words of the gospel writers as truth
when they are clearly known to be liars?
(See Romans 3:7).

27. According to the Gospels, from the Christian standpoint,
Jesus was the MOST important person to have ever lived.
From the Roman standpoint, Jesus was a huge pain in the neck
because of his political activities.
Explain why nothing was written about his life for over thirty years after his death,
and nothing except the Gospels was written until the Third Century CE.

29. In light of Matthew 10:34, explain why Jesus is called the Prince of Peace.

28. The name "Jesus" has been anglicized.
What was the original (Hebrew) name of Jesus?
Where did you get this information?
This IS a Bonus question.

29. Explain why spreading "The Truth of Christ"
requires you to spread lies about other religions,
such as the idea that Wiccans (so-called "White Witches")
worship the Christian devil.
Incidentally, they don't, and this rumor has been
persistently spread by Christians since the second century CE).

30. At no point in the four Gospels did Jesus claim to be the son of your God.
(He said "Son of Man" quite frequently, and at one point referred to himself
as "A Son of God," but that was a common Hebrew expression at the time.
Someone who was "a Son of God" was a Jew/of Jewish Descent.
This reflected the Israelites' belief that they were the chosen people of your God.
(See Job 1:6).
Why then, do you believe that Jesus was divine?
If you don't believe that Jesus was truly divine,
then why do you call yourself a Christian?

31. When Jesus said,
"Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek,
turn to him the other also,"
why do you suppose that most Christians fight for their rights?
To put it another way, why do we,
a country made up of almost 85% Christians, let the government abuse us?

32. Why are so many Christian holidays on the same day as Pagan holidays?
Also explain the significance of the relationship between Christian Holidays
as opposed to the Pagan Holidays, which occur on the same days of the year.
Bonus points for using examples with Constantinople.
(Hint - Think 14th Century)

33. Couldn't the early Church fathers have converted pagans only by appealing
to their reason and/or faith if Christianity is really the TRUE religion?
It is a KNOWN Fact, as the Roman Catholic church has recently released information
that in the 14 Century, Constantinople converted all Pagan holidays
into Christian and Catholic holidays purposedly.
"Christmas" was originally celebrated by Catholics in July,
as Jesus was born during a Summer month, not a winter month.
Justify your answer carefully, as this can be proven.

34. What is sin, exactly?
Think carefully about this answer.

35. If Jesus is perfect, justify the parable of the fig tree (Matthew 21:17-19, Mark 11:14-20).

36. Explain why Christians have harassed Wiccans ("White Witches")
for almost two thousand years now,
(For the record, I am NOT Wiccan or Pagan,
but I am very familiar with them.)
when the central rule of the Wiccan ethical system is "
'an it harm none, do what thou wilt".
Pagans & Wiccans, for the most part, are peaceful people
who intend no harm to anyone, as they believe that the harm
would be returned to themselves in (3) threefold/The Rule Of Three.
(IE: A form of Karma/Fate/Bad Luck if you will.)

37. Explain why Christians (yes, that includes all branches of Christianity)
have spread the lie that Jews put Jesus to death when, in actuality,
it was the Romans who put Jesus to death.
(For a good example of New Testament anti-Semitism, see 1 Thessalonians 2:15).
(For the record, I am NOT Jewish or of any Jewish decent.)

38. Why would your God confuse people?
(See 1 Sam 7:10 and Gen 11:9).
Isn't life confusing enough already to have a deity trying to confuse us as well?

39. Why would your God cause blindness, deafness, and dumbness?
(See Ex 4:11)
Why would a caring loving God allow children to be born with the following maladies:
deformation, blindness, deafness, crippling, paraplegia, life-threatening diseases, etc.?
Why would a loving caring God allow INNOCENT Children to be murdered?
Justify your answer carefully.

40. All of the various Christian sects ignore various parts of the Bible,
usually because those parts of the Bible are inconvenient.
Explain which parts of the Bible your sect ignores,
and then explain why it is OK to ignore those parts of the Bible.

41. Why did your God allow Lucifer/Satan to do evil things to Job
(Job 2:7 etc.)?
Wouldn't your God have better spent his time punishing unbelievers?
Why punish anyone at all, if we supposedly have free will?
Choose your answers carefully.

42. If Jesus and his father are in fact ONE
(John 10:30),
then why does Jesus have to pray
(IE: Matthew 26:39)?

43. In the Genesis story, your God tells Adam and Eve that
the day they eat from the tree of knowledge they will surely die
(Gen 2:17)
The Devil tells them that they will not die, but that their eyes would be opened
and that they would then know the difference between good and evil
(Gen 3:5).
Wasn't Satan really telling the truth here?
Is your God a liar?
Justify your answer in light of Jeremiah 20:7 and Ezekiel 14:9.

44. Before Mary was knocked up
(I use the term knocked up because she was not married
or in any form of relationship when she was impregnated)
by the "Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost",
she was never once asked for her consent.
(She was only warned; see Luke 1:31).
Mary was also asleep when your God knocked her up;
this strongly suggests that he didn't want her to protest.
Does this mean that Mary was raped by your God?
Do you think rape is wrong? Explain.
(For the record, I think Rape is unforgiveable
and the punishment should be public execution/death.)
45. How do you, as an individual, feel about Psalm 51:5?

46. Revelation 22:16 says that Jesus is the "offspring of David."
Mary was not descended from David, but Joseph was.
Doesn't this mean that Jesus wasn't the son of your God at all,
but the (mortal and not divine) son of Joseph?

47. If your God is "just and merciful,"
why would he take Solomon's kingdom away from Solomon's son
while not punishing Solomon, when it was Solomon himself
who committed the sin of idolatry?
What did Solomon's son do to deserve such punishment?
(See 1 Kings 11:12).
Speaking of Idolatry;
Doesn't praying to Mary, wearing a Crucifix, etc., justify as Idolatry?
Isn't the "Hail Mary" prayer a form of worship?
And did not your God state that "you shall have NO other Gods before him"?
Explain your answers thoroughly and carefully.

48. Why is Solomon commonly considered to be the paragon of wisdom by many Christians,
when he constantly sinned against your God?
(1 Kings 11:4-10, etc.)
Personally, if I had a God talking to me, I'd do what he said.
Why did Solomon not?
Did he have his doubts in "God's word"?

49. Even if your God did create the universe,
why does he want to be worshipped?
Wouldn't having that much power be its own reward?
Is your God an egomaniac?

50. What are your beliefs concerning Wicca/Wiccan? ("White Witchcraft").
How much do you know about Wicca?
After reading this questionnaire, will you now look at Wicca/Wiccans
in a new and different light with more acceptance in your heart?
(As stated before, I am NOT a Wiccan or a White Witch.)

51. What do you think the word "Satanist" means?
Let your words be the genuine picture of your heart- John Wesley
Money is a horrid thing to follow, but a charming thing to meet-Henry James
Ruckmanite
Posts: 289
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11/15/2012 3:53:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
52. Throughout the Bible, your God commands his followers to:
"Wage Merciless War on Unbelievers"
(Luke 22:36, Deuteronomy 13:8, Exodus 20:23-25,
Deuteronomy 20:16, Matthew 10:34, Numbers 31:17-18, etc.).
If you are one of his followers, why aren't you out "Waging Merciless War on Unbelievers"?

53. Numbers 23:21 says that your God "has not seen wickedness in Israel."
If this is so, explain why your God burned Israelites for complaining
(Numbers 11:1),
sent a plague against them for eating the meat he had given them
(Numbers 11:33),
why he burned people for using incense
(Numbers 16:35),
why he sent a plague against the Israelites who accused Moses of wrongdoing
(Numbers 16:44-49),
and why he sent fiery snakes among the Israelites
(Numbers 21:5).
Is your God a liar, or was it just more convenient for him
to lie at that particular place and time, or both, or" ?
Explain this question carefully.

54. What was it that was so bad about eating an apple that death had to result from that act?

55. What was it about humanity's torturing and killing
of your God's only son that made your God so happy
that he again promised eternal life to everyone who believed in him?
Think carefully before answering please.

56. What does your sect think of the government?
Ok, now read Paul's letter to the Romans, Chapter 13.
Now what do you think of the government?
If necessary, reconcile the two views.

57. Why do you think it is that the ancient Greeks,
who had a very liberal and open-minded sexual morality,
had many fewer sex crimes (compared to the population) than the United States,
which is currently 85% Christian who state that masturbation, anal sex, oral sex,
multiple partner relationships, etc., are wrong and Sins against God?
(For the record, I like sex, a LOT. I mean, seriously, who doesn't?)

58. What are the requirements for being "Saved"?
Some sects/religions state that faith alone is enough;
others say that faith without works is dead.
The Bible supports both these viewpoints.
What are your requirements?
Explain.

60. Christ giving himself up on the cross was a great gesture, True.
But wouldn't it have been MORE sensible and a better gesture for him
to continue spreading his message until he died a natural death?
Answer this question in light of your answer to question #1.

61. According to recent articles released from various religious organizations,
the Roman Catholic Church has hidden the fact that Jesus was married to Mary Magdelene
and that he and she had children together.
Is this true?
Are you sure it is?
Are you sure it isn't??
If so, does that mean that we have direct descendants of Jesus in today's society?
If so, where are they?
Who are they?
Would they be considered "holier" than most people?

62. How do you feel about Canonization of people who have become "Saints"?
Think carefully about this answer, as a lot of the "Saints" are prayed to on a daily basis,
and does this not promote a Sin against your God's wishes/commandments, as being both a form
of Idolatry and also having False Gods before your God?

63. Explain the significance and symbolism of wearing a Cross/Crucifix.
Does this not promote Idolatry?
Isn't this also a form of a Sadistic Fetish?
Let's be honest here, a crucifix is a symbol for torture and death, is it not?
If not, explain your answer carefully as millions of people
wear a crucifix on a daily basis throughout their entire lives.

64. Do you feel that the Pope is a holier person, than say, the homeless person
who lives on the street, who prays to your God everyday and lives his life
to the fullest preaching the word of your God?
Think carefully about this answer, as the Pope is still JUST a man.
Let your words be the genuine picture of your heart- John Wesley
Money is a horrid thing to follow, but a charming thing to meet-Henry James
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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11/15/2012 4:14:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
So long... I got through like, 10 questions, then decided they were just getting stupider and stupider.

A lot of these questions are the sorts of questions someone who hasn't even made a token effort to look for explanations would ask.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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11/15/2012 4:15:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It is pretty long..

If you can select your top 5-7 I'd be happy to answer them.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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11/15/2012 4:32:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/15/2012 3:50:18 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
24. Explain why, if Jesus was perfect,
he thought that the end of the world was coming soon,
when it has clearly not come yet.
See Matthew 16:27-28.28.

This one is perfect for annanicole, though.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/15/2012 4:37:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/15/2012 4:14:05 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
So long... I got through like, 10 questions, then decided they were just getting stupider and stupider.

A lot of these questions are the sorts of questions someone who hasn't even made a token effort to look for explanations would ask.

I thought some of them were quite good like this one

8. Explain why your God created humans as imperfect,
then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them,
then punishes us for not living up to his standards.
Doesn't this also constitute as "entrapment"?
If you wish to dispute that we are or are not imperfect, explain:
Tonsils Removal/Tonsilectomy, Appendix Removal/Appendicitis, Foreskin Removal
(This is no longer just religious based, as it's become a cleanliness issue as well),
Common Colds/Influenza, Cancer, AIDS, etc. (See Question # 26)

Actually I think more can be said on that point which I mentioned in this thread http://www.debate.org...
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
philochristos
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11/15/2012 4:54:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This looks like these questions were taken from the old "Heirophant's Proselytizer Questionnaire." It's been around for at least 15 years. If you honestly want answers to these questions, you should ask no more than a few at a time. It's too time consuming for anybody to give a good answer to each one. There used to be more questions in the original questionnaire. I actually did take the time to answer them all way back when, but I don't think I have a copy of my answers anymore, and my answers today would probably be different anyway.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
philochristos
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11/15/2012 5:06:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Here's a link to answers to these questions. I can't vouch for the answers since I haven't read them all, but here they are anyway:

http://www.dogchurch.org...
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
philochristos
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11/15/2012 5:34:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Here's the URL where my answers used to be posted.

http://www.angelfire.com...

Unfortunately, the wayback machine doesn't seem to have it archived. Maybe there are other internet archives that will have it. Still looking.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
truthseeker613
Posts: 464
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11/15/2012 6:04:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/15/2012 4:37:10 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/15/2012 4:14:05 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
So long... I got through like, 10 questions, then decided they were just getting stupider and stupider.

A lot of these questions are the sorts of questions someone who hasn't even made a token effort to look for explanations would ask.

I thought some of them were quite good like this one

8. Explain why your God created humans as imperfect,
then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them,
then punishes us for not living up to his standards.
Doesn't this also constitute as "entrapment"?
If you wish to dispute that we are or are not imperfect, explain:
Tonsils Removal/Tonsilectomy, Appendix Removal/Appendicitis, Foreskin Removal
(This is no longer just religious based, as it's become a cleanliness issue as well),
Common Colds/Influenza, Cancer, AIDS, etc. (See Question # 26)

Actually I think more can be said on that point which I mentioned in this thread http://www.debate.org...

I'm questioning the validity of:
"then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them"
http://www.nydailynews.com...

royalpaladin: I'd rather support people who kill spies than a nation that organizes assassination squads (Kidon) to illegally enter into other nations and kill anybody who is not a Zionist. Who knows when they'll kill me for the crime of not supporting Israel?

Koopin: LOL! I just imagine Royal sitting in here apartment at night, when suddenly she hears a man outside speaking Hebrew as sh
phantom
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11/15/2012 6:19:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/15/2012 6:04:03 PM, truthseeker613 wrote:
At 11/15/2012 4:37:10 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/15/2012 4:14:05 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
So long... I got through like, 10 questions, then decided they were just getting stupider and stupider.

A lot of these questions are the sorts of questions someone who hasn't even made a token effort to look for explanations would ask.

I thought some of them were quite good like this one

8. Explain why your God created humans as imperfect,
then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them,
then punishes us for not living up to his standards.
Doesn't this also constitute as "entrapment"?
If you wish to dispute that we are or are not imperfect, explain:
Tonsils Removal/Tonsilectomy, Appendix Removal/Appendicitis, Foreskin Removal
(This is no longer just religious based, as it's become a cleanliness issue as well),
Common Colds/Influenza, Cancer, AIDS, etc. (See Question # 26)

Actually I think more can be said on that point which I mentioned in this thread http://www.debate.org...

I'm questioning the validity of:
"then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them"

Well I wouldn't have phrased it that way, but according to Christianity (generally), we deserve hell because of our sin. It's only through Jesus that one can go to heaven. By Gods standards, we deserve hell. Those standards are impossible to achieve since we're created sinful. So it's rather unjust for God to deem us worthy of hell when his standards are far above or reach.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
philochristos
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11/15/2012 6:59:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Here's another link to answers to these questions (as well as the rest of the questions on the original questionnaire):

http://www.tektoonics.com...
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Ruckmanite
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11/15/2012 11:28:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/15/2012 6:59:52 PM, philochristos wrote:
Here's another link to answers to these questions (as well as the rest of the questions on the original questionnaire):

http://www.tektoonics.com...

thank you for your help!
Let your words be the genuine picture of your heart- John Wesley
Money is a horrid thing to follow, but a charming thing to meet-Henry James
Ruckmanite
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11/15/2012 11:30:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/15/2012 4:15:46 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
It is pretty long..

If you can select your top 5-7 I'd be happy to answer them.

QUESTIONS 1, 2, 6, 8, and 17 would be nice. thanks.
Let your words be the genuine picture of your heart- John Wesley
Money is a horrid thing to follow, but a charming thing to meet-Henry James
Ruckmanite
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11/16/2012 6:42:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Wow, I figured all the atheists would be on here cheering us and mocking us by now. Guess the posts are too long for even them to read.
Let your words be the genuine picture of your heart- John Wesley
Money is a horrid thing to follow, but a charming thing to meet-Henry James
phantom
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11/16/2012 7:07:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 6:42:36 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
Wow, I figured all the atheists would be on here cheering us and mocking us by now. Guess the posts are too long for even them to read.

Why would we be mocking you?
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Paradox_7
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11/16/2012 7:07:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
1. If your God wants us to worship him through our own free will,
why does he threaten us with Hell?
If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, it isn't free will.
Clarify your answer.

First off, God would like us not only to worship him, but be like him, worship would be the result of our righteousness. Second, no one chooses God through their own free-will; I know the synergist doctrine is very popular, but man's will always chooses death.

Hell, like worship, is a result. While faith/justification results in worship, the opposite results in hell. If you are not regerated by God, you will stick to what your nature and will desires: Sin. The result of rebellion, is God removing himself from the person. If anything, God mentioning hell, is a heads up-- not a threat.

2. Why would your God deliberately cause sinners to sin
(cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus
where Jehovah says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart.").
Are these sinners still responsible for the sins
which your God forces them, against their will, to commit?
Justify your answer.

The distinction you failed to make, is that we sin because we're sinner, we're not sinners because we sin. Therefore, all God has to do in order to harden a persons heart, is remove himself from them. The heart, and will of man is already dead in sin, and cannot choose spiritual things in such a condition (Eph. 2:1,5)

So, God doesn't over throw the will of any except those who have faith; because faith itself is a thing only God can give (Rom. 12:3, Eph. 1, John 15:16,etc)

Biblically speaking, we love sin, and we only desire to sin. If that is the case, then God merely allows sinner perform there own desires, to bring to pass his will; ex - the death of Christ.

6. Explain how your God can be "Just and Merciful" in light of Exodus 20:5.52.
Explain why your "Just and Merciful" God sent bears to kill forty-two (42) children
who called his prophet Elisha/Elijah/Elija "baldhead/baldheaded" (See 2 Kings 2:23-24).

Ultimately, the difference in opinion we'd have, is that I do not define Merciful and Just before exploring scripture, only to weigh God against my understanding of the term. I begin with the word of God, and derrive my understanding of Justice and Mercy, from his decrees/actions; if he is the creator and author of such things, he would be the best place to start, right?

That won't be sufficient for you, I'm sure, so I'll do my best to explain the passage that shed's light on how God is Just and Merciful; despite what we think they are.

A few key things to point out, are that the word used in this passage is 'Ben' which translates to more then simply 8-9 yr olds. The word actually extends to young men, ages 20+-- so the KJV is doing to it's readers disservice in that aspect (I assume thats the translation this was taken from). Also, noting that 42 'of them' were mauled, we can imagine that this group was large; more like a group of college kids protesting Elisha, then a few minors.

Since Elisha was a prophet of God, and performing his work, carrying out his will, these young men were specifically targeting him in defiance of God. They knew who he was, and that Elijah was his mentor. Since Elijah was taken away on chariots, they were actually saying 'go on up, baldy'; in referrence to Elijahs ascension.

This was mocking God, not just Elisha. Elisha, clearly recognizing that it was not he whom they despised but God, and called upon him to deal with these young men in the way he saw fit. Getting their @ss kicked by a bear, was God's answer.

Another note, is that these guys weren't killed.. they were mauled; wounded. Intentions and motive of the heart are the first degree anyone is judged by.. physical sins are just symptoms.

8. Explain why your God created humans as imperfect,
then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them,
then punishes us for not living up to his standards.
Doesn't this also constitute as "entrapment"?
If you wish to dispute that we are or are not imperfect, explain:
Tonsils Removal/Tonsilectomy, Appendix Removal/Appendicitis, Foreskin Removal
(This is no longer just religious based, as it's become a cleanliness issue as well),
Common Colds/Influenza, Cancer, AIDS, etc. (See Question # 26)

God doesn't 'set' his standards high, he is the standard. He cannot reduce his perfection, therefore he cannot reduce his standards.

Sickness is a result of sin; death is a result of sin.

God knows we can never meet his standard, and his Law was never meant to be completed by us.

Romans 7
10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin...

The Law was intended to reveal sin to us. His description of perfection, was a for us to even comprehend how in need of a saviour we actually are.

17. Was Jesus' three (3) days in Hell really an ultimate sacrifice,
when according to the Bible
more than half of humanity are going to spend Eternity there? (see question #16)

Absolutely, because he was perfect. He didn't deserve to die, let a lone go hell; so death and suffering for even moment, was enough to satisfy God's requirement.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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11/16/2012 7:08:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 7:07:51 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/16/2012 6:42:36 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
Wow, I figured all the atheists would be on here cheering us and mocking us by now. Guess the posts are too long for even them to read.

Why would we be mocking you?


Oh, you're an atheist now?
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
phantom
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11/16/2012 7:09:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 7:08:27 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 11/16/2012 7:07:51 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/16/2012 6:42:36 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
Wow, I figured all the atheists would be on here cheering us and mocking us by now. Guess the posts are too long for even them to read.

Why would we be mocking you?


Oh, you're an atheist now?

For the past few weeks.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Paradox_7
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11/16/2012 8:15:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 7:09:45 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/16/2012 7:08:27 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 11/16/2012 7:07:51 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/16/2012 6:42:36 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
Wow, I figured all the atheists would be on here cheering us and mocking us by now. Guess the posts are too long for even them to read.

Why would we be mocking you?


Oh, you're an atheist now?

For the past few weeks.


Man, that sucks..

What was the tipping point for you? Or have you just been generally dissatisfied with the answers you've been getting?
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Ruckmanite
Posts: 289
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11/17/2012 12:22:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 7:07:51 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/16/2012 6:42:36 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
Wow, I figured all the atheists would be on here cheering us and mocking us by now. Guess the posts are too long for even them to read.

Why would we be mocking you?

Well, i figured you would find the questions quite irrefutable, most atheists have so much pride afterall.
Let your words be the genuine picture of your heart- John Wesley
Money is a horrid thing to follow, but a charming thing to meet-Henry James
phantom
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11/17/2012 1:54:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 8:15:27 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 11/16/2012 7:09:45 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/16/2012 7:08:27 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 11/16/2012 7:07:51 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/16/2012 6:42:36 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
Wow, I figured all the atheists would be on here cheering us and mocking us by now. Guess the posts are too long for even them to read.

Why would we be mocking you?


Oh, you're an atheist now?

For the past few weeks.


Man, that sucks..

In what way?

What was the tipping point for you? Or have you just been generally dissatisfied with the answers you've been getting?

Realizing I wasn't convinced by any of the arguments for God anymore. I kept dropping beliefs. After a while I realized there wasn't a single argument for God that I could really say was probably true.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/17/2012 1:54:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/17/2012 12:22:59 AM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 11/16/2012 7:07:51 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/16/2012 6:42:36 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
Wow, I figured all the atheists would be on here cheering us and mocking us by now. Guess the posts are too long for even them to read.

Why would we be mocking you?

Well, i figured you would find the questions quite irrefutable, most atheists have so much pride afterall.

Okay?
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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11/17/2012 4:23:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/15/2012 3:47:28 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
Recently, I received an email from an atheist asking for any and all theists to answer his questions. I figured DDO should have the opportunity to view them. Here they are:

. Before we start (Bonus Question) -
What is the incredibly important doctrinal difference that Requires/explains
the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?

Religious bigotry is the reason for this fighting. Their conflict violate the very ideas Jesus was fighting for.

1. If your God wants us to worship him through our own free will,
why does he threaten us with Hell?
If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, it isn't free will.
Clarify your answer.

He means free will as free will in this life. In this life, you are given the choice to do good or evil. The consequences for these actions happen in the afterlife. If God were to force you to do good in this life, it would not be much of a test. If God were not to punish the evil after we die, then he would not be fighting against evil like he should.

2. Why would your God deliberately cause sinners to sin
(cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus
where Jehovah says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart.").
Are these sinners still responsible for the sins
which your God forces them, against their will, to commit?
Justify your answer.

What it means is the fact that God through Moses told Pharaoh to free the slaves, made him stubborn. So God's actions led to Pharaoh's stubbornness but there was no violation of free will.

3. If Jesus did have to die, why did someone (specifically, Judas)
have to be damned in order accomplish the death and resurrection of Jesus?
Jesus was at least a volunteer for the cross;
I doubt that your God asked Judas if he was willing to go to Hell
just so that the resurrection could be accomplished.
Explain your thoughts.

Judas betrayed God. That is a terrible crime, but one that God knew was going to happen.

4. If Judas was willing to go to Hell for humanity (see #3),
didn't he make more of a sacrifice than Jesus,
who spent only three hours in pain?
Shouldn't we then be worshipping Judas?

He was not trying to go to hell for humanity, he was trying to earn money.
Ruckmanite
Posts: 289
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11/17/2012 3:32:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/17/2012 4:23:33 AM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 11/15/2012 3:47:28 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
Recently, I received an email from an atheist asking for any and all theists to answer his questions. I figured DDO should have the opportunity to view them. Here they are:

. Before we start (Bonus Question) -
What is the incredibly important doctrinal difference that Requires/explains
the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?

Religious bigotry is the reason for this fighting. Their conflict violate the very ideas Jesus was fighting for.

1. If your God wants us to worship him through our own free will,
why does he threaten us with Hell?
If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, it isn't free will.
Clarify your answer.

He means free will as free will in this life. In this life, you are given the choice to do good or evil. The consequences for these actions happen in the afterlife. If God were to force you to do good in this life, it would not be much of a test. If God were not to punish the evil after we die, then he would not be fighting against evil like he should.

2. Why would your God deliberately cause sinners to sin
(cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus
where Jehovah says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart.").
Are these sinners still responsible for the sins
which your God forces them, against their will, to commit?
Justify your answer.

What it means is the fact that God through Moses told Pharaoh to free the slaves, made him stubborn. So God's actions led to Pharaoh's stubbornness but there was no violation of free will.

3. If Jesus did have to die, why did someone (specifically, Judas)
have to be damned in order accomplish the death and resurrection of Jesus?
Jesus was at least a volunteer for the cross;
I doubt that your God asked Judas if he was willing to go to Hell
just so that the resurrection could be accomplished.
Explain your thoughts.

Judas betrayed God. That is a terrible crime, but one that God knew was going to happen.

4. If Judas was willing to go to Hell for humanity (see #3),
didn't he make more of a sacrifice than Jesus,
who spent only three hours in pain?
Shouldn't we then be worshipping Judas?

He was not trying to go to hell for humanity, he was trying to earn money.

short and sweet, but fairly logical. However, I thought you were an atheist, or at least an agnostic, Dan?
Let your words be the genuine picture of your heart- John Wesley
Money is a horrid thing to follow, but a charming thing to meet-Henry James
Ruckmanite
Posts: 289
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11/17/2012 3:33:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 7:07:53 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
1. If your God wants us to worship him through our own free will,
why does he threaten us with Hell?
If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, it isn't free will.
Clarify your answer.

First off, God would like us not only to worship him, but be like him, worship would be the result of our righteousness. Second, no one chooses God through their own free-will; I know the synergist doctrine is very popular, but man's will always chooses death.

Hell, like worship, is a result. While faith/justification results in worship, the opposite results in hell. If you are not regerated by God, you will stick to what your nature and will desires: Sin. The result of rebellion, is God removing himself from the person. If anything, God mentioning hell, is a heads up-- not a threat.


2. Why would your God deliberately cause sinners to sin
(cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus
where Jehovah says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart.").
Are these sinners still responsible for the sins
which your God forces them, against their will, to commit?
Justify your answer.

The distinction you failed to make, is that we sin because we're sinner, we're not sinners because we sin. Therefore, all God has to do in order to harden a persons heart, is remove himself from them. The heart, and will of man is already dead in sin, and cannot choose spiritual things in such a condition (Eph. 2:1,5)

So, God doesn't over throw the will of any except those who have faith; because faith itself is a thing only God can give (Rom. 12:3, Eph. 1, John 15:16,etc)

Biblically speaking, we love sin, and we only desire to sin. If that is the case, then God merely allows sinner perform there own desires, to bring to pass his will; ex - the death of Christ.


6. Explain how your God can be "Just and Merciful" in light of Exodus 20:5.52.
Explain why your "Just and Merciful" God sent bears to kill forty-two (42) children
who called his prophet Elisha/Elijah/Elija "baldhead/baldheaded" (See 2 Kings 2:23-24).

Ultimately, the difference in opinion we'd have, is that I do not define Merciful and Just before exploring scripture, only to weigh God against my understanding of the term. I begin with the word of God, and derrive my understanding of Justice and Mercy, from his decrees/actions; if he is the creator and author of such things, he would be the best place to start, right?

That won't be sufficient for you, I'm sure, so I'll do my best to explain the passage that shed's light on how God is Just and Merciful; despite what we think they are.

A few key things to point out, are that the word used in this passage is 'Ben' which translates to more then simply 8-9 yr olds. The word actually extends to young men, ages 20+-- so the KJV is doing to it's readers disservice in that aspect (I assume thats the translation this was taken from). Also, noting that 42 'of them' were mauled, we can imagine that this group was large; more like a group of college kids protesting Elisha, then a few minors.

Since Elisha was a prophet of God, and performing his work, carrying out his will, these young men were specifically targeting him in defiance of God. They knew who he was, and that Elijah was his mentor. Since Elijah was taken away on chariots, they were actually saying 'go on up, baldy'; in referrence to Elijahs ascension.

This was mocking God, not just Elisha. Elisha, clearly recognizing that it was not he whom they despised but God, and called upon him to deal with these young men in the way he saw fit. Getting their @ss kicked by a bear, was God's answer.

Another note, is that these guys weren't killed.. they were mauled; wounded. Intentions and motive of the heart are the first degree anyone is judged by.. physical sins are just symptoms.

8. Explain why your God created humans as imperfect,
then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them,
then punishes us for not living up to his standards.
Doesn't this also constitute as "entrapment"?
If you wish to dispute that we are or are not imperfect, explain:
Tonsils Removal/Tonsilectomy, Appendix Removal/Appendicitis, Foreskin Removal
(This is no longer just religious based, as it's become a cleanliness issue as well),
Common Colds/Influenza, Cancer, AIDS, etc. (See Question # 26)

God doesn't 'set' his standards high, he is the standard. He cannot reduce his perfection, therefore he cannot reduce his standards.

Sickness is a result of sin; death is a result of sin.

God knows we can never meet his standard, and his Law was never meant to be completed by us.

Romans 7
10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin...

The Law was intended to reveal sin to us. His description of perfection, was a for us to even comprehend how in need of a saviour we actually are.

17. Was Jesus' three (3) days in Hell really an ultimate sacrifice,
when according to the Bible
more than half of humanity are going to spend Eternity there? (see question #16)

Absolutely, because he was perfect. He didn't deserve to die, let a lone go hell; so death and suffering for even moment, was enough to satisfy God's requirement.

Thanks a lot Man!
Let your words be the genuine picture of your heart- John Wesley
Money is a horrid thing to follow, but a charming thing to meet-Henry James
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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11/17/2012 3:34:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
@ruckmanite

Did you get a chance to read over the answers I provided for you?
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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11/17/2012 6:37:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/17/2012 3:32:36 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 11/17/2012 4:23:33 AM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 11/15/2012 3:47:28 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
Recently, I received an email from an atheist asking for any and all theists to answer his questions. I figured DDO should have the opportunity to view them. Here they are:

. Before we start (Bonus Question) -
What is the incredibly important doctrinal difference that Requires/explains
the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?

Religious bigotry is the reason for this fighting. Their conflict violate the very ideas Jesus was fighting for.

1. If your God wants us to worship him through our own free will,
why does he threaten us with Hell?
If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, it isn't free will.
Clarify your answer.

He means free will as free will in this life. In this life, you are given the choice to do good or evil. The consequences for these actions happen in the afterlife. If God were to force you to do good in this life, it would not be much of a test. If God were not to punish the evil after we die, then he would not be fighting against evil like he should.

2. Why would your God deliberately cause sinners to sin
(cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus
where Jehovah says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart.").
Are these sinners still responsible for the sins
which your God forces them, against their will, to commit?
Justify your answer.

What it means is the fact that God through Moses told Pharaoh to free the slaves, made him stubborn. So God's actions led to Pharaoh's stubbornness but there was no violation of free will.

3. If Jesus did have to die, why did someone (specifically, Judas)
have to be damned in order accomplish the death and resurrection of Jesus?
Jesus was at least a volunteer for the cross;
I doubt that your God asked Judas if he was willing to go to Hell
just so that the resurrection could be accomplished.
Explain your thoughts.

Judas betrayed God. That is a terrible crime, but one that God knew was going to happen.

4. If Judas was willing to go to Hell for humanity (see #3),
didn't he make more of a sacrifice than Jesus,
who spent only three hours in pain?
Shouldn't we then be worshipping Judas?

He was not trying to go to hell for humanity, he was trying to earn money.

short and sweet, but fairly logical. However, I thought you were an atheist, or at least an agnostic, Dan?

Just because I am agnostic doesn't mean I accept every possible argument some atheists comes up with against Christianity. Most arguments against religion are no offense, just garbage. I tend to focus on the fact that Christianity lacks evidence.

Your list has a few strong arguments although they are not without counterarguments, so people can certainly have an interesting debate over them, but most of your arguments are pretty easy to answer.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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11/17/2012 7:05:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/15/2012 3:47:28 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
Recently, I received an email from an atheist asking for any and all theists to answer his questions. I figured DDO should have the opportunity to view them. Here they are:

. Before we start (Bonus Question) -
What is the incredibly important doctrinal difference that Requires/explains
the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?

I think this is more political. The doctrinal differences by themselves are really not enough to fight about.

1. If your God wants us to worship him through our own free will,
why does he threaten us with Hell?
If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, it isn't free will.
Clarify your answer.

Lol, that is a lot of questions. Let's start with it one at a time. Once we settle number one we can move onto the next one. But I know we will not settle the first one so that is probably as far as we will get.

Hell is nothing more than the place where souls that hate God can get what they want, no God. It's poetic justice in the most final and perfect way.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen