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Explain the Trinity according to the bible

question4u
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11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it. Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church? Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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11/19/2012 2:08:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it.

Why would anyone use the Bible alone. Flawed.

Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church?

First century. The modern views were probably second century.

Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

Depends.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
question4u
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11/19/2012 2:34:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 2:08:17 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it.

Why would anyone use the Bible alone. Flawed.

Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church?

First century. The modern views were probably second century.

Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

Depends.

Depends on what?

The trinity was introduced by Tertullian then the church made it heritical even damnable if you did not believe in it. So what about the saints before this were they all damned because they did not know about the trinity?

Thank you for you honesty because the bible alone does not explain the trinity at all, we have to use some kind of outside source. But maybe someone else can prove the trintity base upon the bible alone.
Wallstreetatheist
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11/19/2012 2:39:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Trinity is post-facto revisionist idea to make Christianity a monotheism.
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DanielChristopherBlowes
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11/19/2012 2:59:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it. Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church? Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

The Bible clearly teaches a trinitarian Godhead; three distinct personalities that are of the same substance: GOD.

The Father is the creator, the source of all things..

Jesus is The Word, the true expression, the physical representation of the invisible Father..

The Holy Spirit is expression of the Fathers love for the Son and the Sons love for the Father..
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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11/19/2012 3:00:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 2:34:45 PM, question4u wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:08:17 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it.

Why would anyone use the Bible alone. Flawed.

Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church?

First century. The modern views were probably second century.

Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

Depends.

Depends on what?

The trinity was introduced by Tertullian then the church made it heritical even damnable if you did not believe in it. So what about the saints before this were they all damned because they did not know about the trinity?

Probably not unless they knew of it and actively denied it.

Thank you for you honesty because the bible alone does not explain the trinity at all, we have to use some kind of outside source. But maybe someone else can prove the trintity base upon the bible alone.

You can 'prove' the Trinity based on the Bible alone, but you can't really say too much about it except that it exists.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
question4u
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11/19/2012 3:10:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 2:39:52 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
The Trinity is post-facto revisionist idea to make Christianity a monotheism.

I was a christian and all ways sounded like a fool explaining the trinity maybe someone else can explain with a little more information outside of what I read in the bible that proves that I have to believe in God the father, god the son and god Holy Spirit or I will go to hell. Does not make since, never was one god but three gods. I did this math with my son and he made my christian faith look bad. He said 1god plus another plus another =3, yes I graduated high school and was a math wiz in school but my christian faith would not let that be 3 but one. My son is 6 years old and a homeschool student how can get this but I could not. I know it is because I was taught an outside source instead of bible source. They make you believe not help you to choose but make you believe what they believe, raping of the mind of choice.
DanT
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11/19/2012 3:18:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it. Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church? Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

The trinity was devised by the Council of Nicaea. Early Christians were divided on the issue. Some believed Jesus to be the son of God but not god himself, other considered him and god to be one and the same.
The Council of Nicaea settled on Jesus and God being one and the same, and than devised the trinity in order to explain it.

The father is not the son nor the holey spirit
The son is not the father nor the holey spirit
The holey spirit is not the father nor the son
God is the holey spirit, the father, and the son.

http://upload.wikimedia.org...
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
question4u
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11/19/2012 3:24:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 2:59:26 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it. Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church? Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

The Bible clearly teaches a trinitarian Godhead; three distinct personalities that are of the same substance: GOD.

The Father is the creator, the source of all things..

Jesus is The Word, the true expression, the physical representation of the invisible Father..

The Holy Spirit is expression of the Fathers love for the Son and the Sons love for the Father..

This is not bible but a belief on an outside source, Everything you said is not even bible but base upon what you think the bible says give me some quotes from the bible that at least agree with what you stated above. I dont want to hear your faith because you may not even believe in the entire new testament as a christian. Give me some quotes where I can at least stand firm with you.
question4u
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11/19/2012 3:31:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You can 'prove' the Trinity based on the Bible alone, but you can't really say too much about it except that it exists.

Well can you please prove it based upon bible alone I waiting for the first person to prove the trinity based upon the bible alone. THE BIBLE ALONE!!!!. Show me where we must worship God the father and the son and the holy spirit or we will go to helll please bible alone...
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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11/19/2012 3:35:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 3:31:35 PM, question4u wrote:
You can 'prove' the Trinity based on the Bible alone, but you can't really say too much about it except that it exists.

Well can you please prove it based upon bible alone I waiting for the first person to prove the trinity based upon the bible alone. THE BIBLE ALONE!!!!. Show me where we must worship God the father and the son and the holy spirit or we will go to helll please bible alone...

It nowhere says that you must worship God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost lest you go to hell.

It does, however, clearly teach a plurality of persons.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
question4u
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11/19/2012 3:59:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 3:35:22 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 11/19/2012 3:31:35 PM, question4u wrote:
You can 'prove' the Trinity based on the Bible alone, but you can't really say too much about it except that it exists.

Well can you please prove it based upon bible alone I waiting for the first person to prove the trinity based upon the bible alone. THE BIBLE ALONE!!!!. Show me where we must worship God the father and the son and the holy spirit or we will go to helll please bible alone...

It nowhere says that you must worship God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost lest you go to hell.

It does, however, clearly teach a plurality of persons.

but the early christians plainly taught that you will go to hell if you did not believe in the Trinity.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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11/19/2012 4:00:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 3:59:12 PM, question4u wrote:
At 11/19/2012 3:35:22 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 11/19/2012 3:31:35 PM, question4u wrote:
You can 'prove' the Trinity based on the Bible alone, but you can't really say too much about it except that it exists.

Well can you please prove it based upon bible alone I waiting for the first person to prove the trinity based upon the bible alone. THE BIBLE ALONE!!!!. Show me where we must worship God the father and the son and the holy spirit or we will go to helll please bible alone...

It nowhere says that you must worship God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost lest you go to hell.

It does, however, clearly teach a plurality of persons.

but the early christians plainly taught that you will go to hell if you did not believe in the Trinity.

Where?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
falconduler
Posts: 228
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11/19/2012 5:17:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it. Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church? Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

'...Baptize in the name of the father,son,and holy ghost. "
Muted
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11/19/2012 6:56:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 5:48:53 PM, stubs wrote:
http://bible.org...

+1. This.
Exterminate!!!!!!-Dalek.

The ability to speak does not make you a competent debater.

One does not simply do the rain dance.
question4u
Posts: 492
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11/19/2012 7:27:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 4:00:28 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 11/19/2012 3:59:12 PM, question4u wrote:
At 11/19/2012 3:35:22 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 11/19/2012 3:31:35 PM, question4u wrote:
You can 'prove' the Trinity based on the Bible alone, but you can't really say too much about it except that it exists.

Well can you please prove it based upon bible alone I waiting for the first person to prove the trinity based upon the bible alone. THE BIBLE ALONE!!!!. Show me where we must worship God the father and the son and the holy spirit or we will go to helll please bible alone...

It nowhere says that you must worship God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost lest you go to hell.

It does, however, clearly teach a plurality of persons.

but the early christians plainly taught that you will go to hell if you did not believe in the Trinity.

Where?

In respect to their guilt whereby they are opposed to God, all sinners are to be hated, even one's father or mother or kindred, according to Luke 14:26. For it is our duty to hate in the sinner his being a sinner. St. Thomas Aquinas

Make no mistake, my brethren, they shall suffer everlasting punishment who endeavour to corrupt the Church of Christ. Whosoever sets at nought His doctrine shall go into Hell, and so shall everyone who listens to him. [...] What communion does light have with darkness, or Christ with Belial? Or what portion does truth have with falsehood? Or unrighteousness with unrighteousness? Or true doctrine with that which is false? St. Ignatius of Antioch

Since these wretched souls will have to be separated from God and Heaven for all eternity because their place will be in Hell, already here on earth they have to be separated from the company of Christ Our Lord and His servants and hand-maids. Predestinate souls, you who are of God, cut yourselves adrift from those who are damning themselves! Saint Louis Marie de Montfort

It is fitting, therefore, that you keep aloof from such persons. and neither in private nor in public speak to them. But flee from all abominable heresies and those who cause schism as the beginning of evils. For as many as are of Christ are also with the bishop, but as many as fall away from Christ embrace communion with the accursed, and shall be cut off along with them. [...] Brethren, do not be deceived. If any man follows him who separates from the truth, he shall not inherit the kingdom of God; and if any man does not stay away from the preacher of falsehood, he shall be condemned to hell. [...] If anyone walks according to a foreign doctrine, he is not of Christ nor a partaker of His passion. Have no fellowship with such a man, lest you perish along with him, even though he should be your father, your son, your brother, or a member of your family. St. Ignatius of Antioch

With regard to heretics, two arguments must be observed: one concerning themselves, the other from the aspect of the Church. On their own side, there is the sin whereby they deserve to be separated from the Church by excommunication, but also to be severed from the world by death. For it is a much more serious matter to corrupt the faith which gives life to the soul than to counterfeit that which supports temporal life. Wherefore, if counterfeiters and other evil-doers are immediately condemned to death by the secular authorities, there is much more reason for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, not only to be excommunicated but even put to death. On the part of the Church, however, there is mercy, which looks to the conversion of the wanderer; wherefore, she condemns not at once, but "after the first and second warning", as the Apostle directs (Titus 3:10). After that, if he is still stubborn, the Church, no longer hoping for his conversion, looks to the salvation of others by excommunicating him and separating him from the Church; and, furthermore, she delivers him over to the secular tribunal, thereby to be exterminated from the world by death. St. Thomas Aquinas

Error will never be suppressed unless the criminal elements of depravity be consumed in flames. Pope Clement XII

If you were a heretic, you would go to the stake. St. Ignatius of Loyola

If heretics be altogether uprooted by death, this is not contrary to Our Lord's command. St. Thomas Aquinas

The Holy Roman Catholic Church condemns, disapproves, anathematizes, and declares to be separated from the Body of Christ, which is the Church, everyone who holds any contrary opinions. Council of Florence

We should anathematize heretics even after their death. II Council of Constantinople

The accursed perversity of heretics [...] has so increased that now they exercise their wickedness not in secret, but manifest their error publicly, and win over the weak and simple-minded to their opinion. For this reason, We resolve to cast them, their defenders, and their receivers under anathema, and We forbid under anathema that any one presume to help heretics or to do business with heretics. III Lateran Council

The list goes on and on and on but you should get the point all heretics or those outside the christians beliefs are damned with in this life or in the after life. The trinity is an opinion and according to anyone beliefs he would go to hell. First of all if he burns at the stake and did not recant he will then die and go to hell right? If you were a heretic, you would go to the stake. St. Ignatius of Loyola. So if you were against the trinity you was an heretic and we know due to following above you will go to hell

At 11/19/2012 5:17:07 PM, falconduler wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it. Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church? Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

'...Baptize in the name of the father,son,and holy ghost. "

This does not prove Trinity as they say god the father god the son and god the holyghost, just writer wanting you to guess on what to believe. No proof at all, Me Myself and I is one but another person and another person does not make one.
annanicole
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11/19/2012 11:59:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it. Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church? Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

It (the doctrine of a plurality of persons/personalities in the Godhead) is an inference, and morever is a necessary inference. As far as "being introduced to the church", the doctrine the plural nature of God was around long before the church was established. On the "hell" part, to deny that Jesus is deity is indeed treacherous ground. You can read discussions with Jehovah's Witnesses online. I believe you will find that 90% of their part of the "discussion" will be simply an effort to rewrite the Bible, over and over, one verse after another. John 1: 1 will be a prime example of this.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Composer
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11/20/2012 1:58:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it. Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church? Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

At 11/19/2012 2:59:26 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
The Bible clearly teaches a trinitarian Godhead; three distinct personalities that are of the same substance: GOD.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: "The Word," said John, "became flesh." We could put it in another way " "the Mind of God became a person" (The Early Christian Doctrine of God, R.M. Grant, D.D., Professor of New Testament and Early Christianity, Divinity School, University of Chicago).

William Barclay, Gospel of John, Saint Andrews Press, 1957, Vol. 1, 14. God"s wisdom became flesh in the man Jesus.

At 11/19/2012 2:59:26 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
Jesus is The Word, the true expression, the physical representation of the invisible Father..

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: YOU were again Incorrect but now corrected by moi!

"The Word," said John, "became flesh." We could put it in another way " "the Mind of God became a person"

William Barclay, Gospel of John, Saint Andrews Press, 1957, Vol. 1, 14. God"s wisdom became flesh in the man Jesus.

&

English translations of the Bible before the KJV rendered the beginning of John 1: "All things were made through it and without it nothing was made that was made. In it was life"." Similarly a number of modern German and French translations describe the word as "it," not "him."

There is no reason, therefore, to think of the word as a Person, until it becomes embodied in Story book jebus in John 1:14. Remember that "word" in the Hebrew Bible, the background to the New Testament, never meant a Person in all of its 1455 occurrences. There is no indication in the Old Testament that the Messiah would be a person before his conception. The very opposite was taught: The Messiah would expressly not be god, but a unique, final "prophet like Moses," coming into being from a family in Israel (see Deut. 18:15-19; Acts 3:22; 7:37).

&

Story book bible John 1:1 is certainly not talking about the Johnny Come Lately NON-Original trinity formulation. Those that claim it is are completely ignoring that fact and completely ignoring the context within the very same Story book verse which begins with the statement: "In the beginning was the Word." That word "beginning"; immediately disqualifies the one described as "the Word" as also being Story book almighty god. Why? Because these self-acclaimed believers also claim their almighty god didn't have a beginning. cf. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou [art] God. (Psalm 90:2) KJV Story book

&

The "word" is only spoken of as "he" because 'logos' is masculine in Greek. But this does not mean that it refers to the man, Jesus. The German (Luther) version speaks of "das Wort" (neuter); the French (Segond) version speaks of "la parole" as feminine, showing that "the word" does not necessarily indicate a male person. (Bible Basics 7.1)

&

(A trinitarian) The late Dr. W R Matthews, Dean of St Paul's Cathedral, wrote:

"It must be admitted by everyone who has the rudiments of an historical sense that the doctrine of the Trinity, as a doctrine, formed no part of the original message. St Paul knew it not, and would have been unable to understand the meaning of the terms used in the theological formula on which the Church ultimately agreed". (27)

Or more recently:

"In order to understand the doctrine of the Trinity it is necessary to understand that the doctrine is a development, and why it developed. ... It is a waste of time to attempt to read Trinitarian doctrine directly off the pages of the New Testament". (28)

27. "God in Christian Thought and Experience", p.180
28. A & R Hanson: "Reasonable Belief, A survey of the Christian Faith, p.171-173,1980

&

Was Jesus God to Paul and other early Christians? No. Paul must be understood within his Jewish contexts. (p. 160) (My Bold)

In no way is Paul, still a good Jew (although a Christian one), assuming that Jesus was somehow a divine god second only to YHWH. Yes, Jesus was exalted and had the title "Lord" conferred on him by God. But Jesus was a man who, in Jewish context, had become the Messiah. He was still distinct and inferior to YHWH. When John wrote his almost-Gnostic Gospel almost a half-century later, his use of the "Word" as a pre-existent form is used within Jewish context as well"the same context he used for words like glory, spirit, divine wisdom, and others. "When Paul and John spoke about Jesus as though he had some kind of pre-existent life, they were not suggesting that he was a second divine "person" in the later Trinitarian sense. They were indicating that Jesus had transcended temporal and individual modes of existence. Because the "power" and "wisdom" that he represented were activities that derived from God, he had in some way expressed "what there was from the beginning.""35

The Jews were absolute monotheists. So was Paul. The Jewish Messiah is not a divine figure. The Messiah would be an ordinary human being that would do privileged "God-things." The Son of God was a simple way to express the closeness of the Messiah"s actions to the will and power of God. Only the gods of the pagans had "sons" or offspring. "It should be noted that Paul never called Jesus "God." He called him the "Son of God" in its Jewish sense. He certainly did not believe that Jesus had been the incarnation of God himself; he had simply possessed God"s "powers" and "spirit," which manifested God"s activity on earth and were not to be identified with the inaccessible divine essence."36

Also it needs to be kept in mind, although I mentioned it earlier, Jesus never claimed that his divine powers were his alone or special to him. On many occasions he promised his followers that if they had faith they could exercise these same powers. "By faith, of course, he did not mean adopting the correct theology but cultivating an inner attitude of surrender and openness to God."37 . . . . (p. 161)

35 Armstrong, History of God, p. 89.
36 Armstrong, History of God, p. 83.
37 Armstrong, History of God, p. 82.

. . . . That"s why Story book jebus could say repeatedly, "Greater things than I do will you do." (p. 162) - (Composer adds: John 14:12 KJV)

(Source: How the Bible became the Bible by Donald L. O'Dell - ISBN 0-7414-2993-4 Published by INFINITY Publishing.com)

Your mentor & literal Saviour moi!

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster!
annanicole
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11/20/2012 3:09:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/20/2012 1:58:03 AM, Composer wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it. Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church? Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

At 11/19/2012 2:59:26 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
The Bible clearly teaches a trinitarian Godhead; three distinct personalities that are of the same substance: GOD.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: "The Word," said John, "became flesh." We could put it in another way " "the Mind of God became a person" (The Early Christian Doctrine of God, R.M. Grant, D.D., Professor of New Testament and Early Christianity, Divinity School, University of Chicago).

William Barclay, Gospel of John, Saint Andrews Press, 1957, Vol. 1, 14. God"s wisdom became flesh in the man Jesus.


"We could put it another way." Yeah, but we won't. Here's the real Bible translated by 148 of the greatest scholars of the world:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" (KJV) and

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us " ASV)

Now here's Composer's perversion:

"In the beginning was the Mind of God , and the Mind of God was with God, and the Mind of God was God ... And the Mind of God became a person, and dwelt among us"

The Bible still says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us "

William Barklay? Really? You cite HIM? Why, he didn't even believe that Jesus was God. Period. The same guy who regarded the miracles of Jesus as merely Hebrew exaggerations? Is that the guy? The fella who denied the virgin birth of Christ. Wow. What a source you have there, and he makes a fool of himself on John 1: 1, 14. Don't bother citing him again.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
question4u
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11/20/2012 10:18:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/20/2012 3:09:25 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2012 1:58:03 AM, Composer wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it. Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church? Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

At 11/19/2012 2:59:26 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
The Bible clearly teaches a trinitarian Godhead; three distinct personalities that are of the same substance: GOD.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: "The Word," said John, "became flesh." We could put it in another way " "the Mind of God became a person" (The Early Christian Doctrine of God, R.M. Grant, D.D., Professor of New Testament and Early Christianity, Divinity School, University of Chicago).

William Barclay, Gospel of John, Saint Andrews Press, 1957, Vol. 1, 14. God"s wisdom became flesh in the man Jesus.


"We could put it another way." Yeah, but we won't. Here's the real Bible translated by 148 of the greatest scholars of the world:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" (KJV) and

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us " ASV)

Now here's Composer's perversion:

"In the beginning was the Mind of God , and the Mind of God was with God, and the Mind of God was God ... And the Mind of God became a person, and dwelt among us"

The Bible still says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us "

William Barklay? Really? You cite HIM? Why, he didn't even believe that Jesus was God. Period. The same guy who regarded the miracles of Jesus as merely Hebrew exaggerations? Is that the guy? The fella who denied the virgin birth of Christ. Wow. What a source you have there, and he makes a fool of himself on John 1: 1, 14. Don't bother citing him again.

I agree with composer, only because he is thinking different instead of being like everyone else in a box. I just would like to add. The mind of God, can also mean the spirit of God.. if any body dispute that mind cannot be spirit, then send me a mind. Most christians stay on john 1 but forgot that john that write another book and put what he was trying to let us know in plain format.

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched"this we proclaim concerning the words of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us.

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

So was the message that some kind of god came down as a man or person and if we believe that we will be in the presence of our creator. No and never will be. Or was the message speaking about the words of eternal life was giving to declare to others? This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

So if we are children of the creator we should walk like it, instead of talking about it?

The messenger is the one that was sent to give a message, never does it make him or her the one who created the message.
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
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11/20/2012 12:49:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/20/2012 10:18:44 AM, question4u wrote:
At 11/20/2012 3:09:25 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2012 1:58:03 AM, Composer wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it. Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church? Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

At 11/19/2012 2:59:26 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
The Bible clearly teaches a trinitarian Godhead; three distinct personalities that are of the same substance: GOD.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: "The Word," said John, "became flesh." We could put it in another way " "the Mind of God became a person" (The Early Christian Doctrine of God, R.M. Grant, D.D., Professor of New Testament and Early Christianity, Divinity School, University of Chicago).

William Barclay, Gospel of John, Saint Andrews Press, 1957, Vol. 1, 14. God"s wisdom became flesh in the man Jesus.


"We could put it another way." Yeah, but we won't. Here's the real Bible translated by 148 of the greatest scholars of the world:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" (KJV) and

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us " ASV)

Now here's Composer's perversion:

"In the beginning was the Mind of God , and the Mind of God was with God, and the Mind of God was God ... And the Mind of God became a person, and dwelt among us"

The Bible still says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us "

William Barklay? Really? You cite HIM? Why, he didn't even believe that Jesus was God. Period. The same guy who regarded the miracles of Jesus as merely Hebrew exaggerations? Is that the guy? The fella who denied the virgin birth of Christ. Wow. What a source you have there, and he makes a fool of himself on John 1: 1, 14. Don't bother citing him again.

I agree with composer, only because he is thinking different instead of being like everyone else in a box.

Then you could have joined in on the Tate-LaBianca murders or join the Nazi party: Manson and Hitler were "thinking differently" and "outside the box."

I just would like to add. The mind of God, can also mean the spirit of God..

I would like to point out that neither phrase - "mind of God" nor "Spirit of God" are even found in John 1: 1, 14: ""In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us"

if any body dispute that mind cannot be spirit, then send me a mind. Most christians stay on john 1 but forgot that john that write another book and put what he was trying to let us know in plain format.

He wrote three more. But the Gospel of John is in pretty "plain format" anyway.

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched"this we proclaim concerning the words of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us.

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

So was the message that some kind of god came down as a man or person and if we believe that we will be in the presence of our creator. No and never will be. Or was the message speaking about the words of eternal life was giving to declare to others? This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

So if we are children of the creator we should walk like it, instead of talking about it?

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked on, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life ... who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father: he that acknowledges the Son has the Father also. Let that therefore abide in you, which you have heard from the beginning. If that which you have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, you also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father."

The messenger is the one that was sent to give a message, never does it make him or her the one who created the message.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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11/20/2012 1:02:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/19/2012 3:24:21 PM, question4u wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:59:26 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it. Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church? Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

The Bible clearly teaches a trinitarian Godhead; three distinct personalities that are of the same substance: GOD.

The Father is the creator, the source of all things..

Jesus is The Word, the true expression, the physical representation of the invisible Father..

The Holy Spirit is expression of the Fathers love for the Son and the Sons love for the Father..

This is not bible but a belief on an outside source, Everything you said is not even bible but base upon what you think the bible says give me some quotes from the bible that at least agree with what you stated above. I dont want to hear your faith because you may not even believe in the entire new testament as a christian. Give me some quotes where I can at least stand firm with you.

Ok..

Jesus:

John1:1
In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and THE WORD WAS GOD.
John1:14
THE WORD BECAME FLESH and made His dwelling among us.

The Spirit:

John14:23
Jesus replied 'if anyone loves me he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him and WE WILL COME TO HIM AND MAKE OUR HOME WITH HIM'
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
question4u
Posts: 492
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11/20/2012 1:33:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/20/2012 12:49:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2012 10:18:44 AM, question4u wrote:
At 11/20/2012 3:09:25 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2012 1:58:03 AM, Composer wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it. Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church? Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

At 11/19/2012 2:59:26 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
The Bible clearly teaches a trinitarian Godhead; three distinct personalities that are of the same substance: GOD.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: "The Word," said John, "became flesh." We could put it in another way " "the Mind of God became a person" (The Early Christian Doctrine of God, R.M. Grant, D.D., Professor of New Testament and Early Christianity, Divinity School, University of Chicago).

William Barclay, Gospel of John, Saint Andrews Press, 1957, Vol. 1, 14. God"s wisdom became flesh in the man Jesus.


"We could put it another way." Yeah, but we won't. Here's the real Bible translated by 148 of the greatest scholars of the world:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" (KJV) and

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us " ASV)

Now here's Composer's perversion:

"In the beginning was the Mind of God , and the Mind of God was with God, and the Mind of God was God ... And the Mind of God became a person, and dwelt among us"

The Bible still says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us "

William Barklay? Really? You cite HIM? Why, he didn't even believe that Jesus was God. Period. The same guy who regarded the miracles of Jesus as merely Hebrew exaggerations? Is that the guy? The fella who denied the virgin birth of Christ. Wow. What a source you have there, and he makes a fool of himself on John 1: 1, 14. Don't bother citing him again.

I agree with composer, only because he is thinking different instead of being like everyone else in a box.

Then you could have joined in on the Tate-LaBianca murders or join the Nazi party: Manson and Hitler were "thinking differently" and "outside the box."

I just would like to add. The mind of God, can also mean the spirit of God..

I would like to point out that neither phrase - "mind of God" nor "Spirit of God" are even found in John 1: 1, 14: ""In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us"

if any body dispute that mind cannot be spirit, then send me a mind. Most christians stay on john 1 but forgot that john that write another book and put what he was trying to let us know in plain format.

He wrote three more. But the Gospel of John is in pretty "plain format" anyway.

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched"this we proclaim concerning the words of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us.

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

So was the message that some kind of god came down as a man or person and if we believe that we will be in the presence of our creator. No and never will be. Or was the message speaking about the words of eternal life was giving to declare to others? This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

So if we are children of the creator we should walk like it, instead of talking about it?

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked on, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life ... who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father: he that acknowledges the Son has the Father also. Let that therefore abide in you, which you have heard from the beginning. If that which you have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, you also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father."

The messenger is the one that was sent to give a message, never does it make him or her the one who created the message.

so are you going to tell me that the mind is not spirit and spirit is not the mind. I see your mind is the box of christianity, but tell me how many times have to you compromise your faith for you on selfish desires?

the words that I speak they are Spirit and they are life.. They are what? yes the words are spirit of course, the mind is spirit of course. Becuase the creator is spirit and is seeking those that will worship him in spirit and in truth. Not in the knowledge of vain teachers.
DanielChristopherBlowes
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11/21/2012 10:32:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/20/2012 1:02:26 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/19/2012 3:24:21 PM, question4u wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:59:26 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it. Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church? Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

The Bible clearly teaches a trinitarian Godhead; three distinct personalities that are of the same substance: GOD.

The Father is the creator, the source of all things..

Jesus is The Word, the true expression, the physical representation of the invisible Father..

The Holy Spirit is expression of the Fathers love for the Son and the Sons love for the Father..

This is not bible but a belief on an outside source, Everything you said is not even bible but base upon what you think the bible says give me some quotes from the bible that at least agree with what you stated above. I dont want to hear your faith because you may not even believe in the entire new testament as a christian. Give me some quotes where I can at least stand firm with you.

Ok..

Jesus:

John1:1
In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and THE WORD WAS GOD.
John1:14
THE WORD BECAME FLESH and made His dwelling among us.

The Spirit:

John14:23
Jesus replied 'if anyone loves me he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him and WE WILL COME TO HIM AND MAKE OUR HOME WITH HIM'

Pull up to the B-ump-a baby..
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
question4u
Posts: 492
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11/21/2012 11:14:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/21/2012 10:32:55 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/20/2012 1:02:26 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/19/2012 3:24:21 PM, question4u wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:59:26 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it. Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church? Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

The Bible clearly teaches a trinitarian Godhead; three distinct personalities that are of the same substance: GOD.

The Father is the creator, the source of all things..

Jesus is The Word, the true expression, the physical representation of the invisible Father..

The Holy Spirit is expression of the Fathers love for the Son and the Sons love for the Father..

This is not bible but a belief on an outside source, Everything you said is not even bible but base upon what you think the bible says give me some quotes from the bible that at least agree with what you stated above. I dont want to hear your faith because you may not even believe in the entire new testament as a christian. Give me some quotes where I can at least stand firm with you.

Ok..

Jesus:

John1:1
In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and THE WORD WAS GOD.
John1:14
THE WORD BECAME FLESH and made His dwelling among us.

The Spirit:

John14:23
Jesus replied 'if anyone loves me he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him and WE WILL COME TO HIM AND MAKE OUR HOME WITH HIM'

Pull up to the B-ump-a baby..

You missed the Point... in John 14:23 it said obey his teaching the father then will love them. Where did his teaching come from? Yes the same thing the old testament prophets and righteous men and women was talking about, the same teaching are being stated here.
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
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11/21/2012 11:29:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/20/2012 1:33:30 PM, question4u wrote:
At 11/20/2012 12:49:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2012 10:18:44 AM, question4u wrote:
At 11/20/2012 3:09:25 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2012 1:58:03 AM, Composer wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:

so are you going to tell me that the mind is not spirit and spirit is not the mind.

No, I'm telling you that that this translation of Jn 1: 1, 14 to which you consented is ridiculous:

""In the beginning was the Mind of God , and the Mind of God was with God, and the Mind of God was God ... And the Mind of God became a person, and dwelt among us"

Now. Such a perversion is, for one thing, totally unsupportable based upon any Greek text. For another, it makes the verse convey nonsense: "the mind of God was with God." Does that make any sense. And even worse: "the Mind of God was God." Then the "Mind of God" became a "person."

Now to your question: "So are you going to tell me that the mind is not spirit and spirit is not the mind."

Certainly the mind of a man is not the spirit. I've never heard of anyone who said the two were synonymous.

I see your mind is the box of christianity, but tell me how many times have to you compromise your faith for you on selfish desires?

Could you rephrase that? Interpreting jibberish isn't my strong point.

the words that I speak they are Spirit and they are life.. They are what? yes the words are spirit of course, the mind is spirit of course. Becuase the creator is spirit and is seeking those that will worship him in spirit and in truth. Not in the knowledge of vain teachers.

Nonsense. Just because my cat has a mind and uses it doesn't mean that he has an eternal spirit, does it? The dying words of Stephen? "Lord Jesus, receive my mind"? "As the body without the mind is dead, so faith without works is dead also."? So a person without any brain activity should be hauled off to the mortuary? I'm afraid that you are applying metaphors literally - then talking in circles.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
question4u
Posts: 492
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11/21/2012 1:29:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/21/2012 11:29:51 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2012 1:33:30 PM, question4u wrote:
At 11/20/2012 12:49:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2012 10:18:44 AM, question4u wrote:
At 11/20/2012 3:09:25 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2012 1:58:03 AM, Composer wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:

so are you going to tell me that the mind is not spirit and spirit is not the mind.

No, I'm telling you that that this translation of Jn 1: 1, 14 to which you consented is ridiculous:

""In the beginning was the Mind of God , and the Mind of God was with God, and the Mind of God was God ... And the Mind of God became a person, and dwelt among us"

Now. Such a perversion is, for one thing, totally unsupportable based upon any Greek text. For another, it makes the verse convey nonsense: "the mind of God was with God." Does that make any sense. And even worse: "the Mind of God was God." Then the "Mind of God" became a "person."

Now to your question: "So are you going to tell me that the mind is not spirit and spirit is not the mind."

Certainly the mind of a man is not the spirit. I've never heard of anyone who said the two were synonymous.

I see your mind is the box of christianity, but tell me how many times have to you compromise your faith for you on selfish desires?

Could you rephrase that? Interpreting jibberish isn't my strong point.

the words that I speak they are Spirit and they are life.. They are what? yes the words are spirit of course, the mind is spirit of course. Becuase the creator is spirit and is seeking those that will worship him in spirit and in truth. Not in the knowledge of vain teachers.

Nonsense. Just because my cat has a mind and uses it doesn't mean that he has an eternal spirit, does it? The dying words of Stephen? "Lord Jesus, receive my mind"? "As the body without the mind is dead, so faith without works is dead also."? So a person without any brain activity should be hauled off to the mortuary? I'm afraid that you are applying metaphors literally - then talking in circles.

The mind can you see it? Then what is it?

1. The intellectual or rational faculty in man; the understanding; the intellect; the power that conceives, judges, or reasons; also, the entire spiritual nature; the soul;spirit.

From the 1913 Webster dictionary
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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11/21/2012 1:34:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/21/2012 11:14:21 AM, question4u wrote:
At 11/21/2012 10:32:55 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/20/2012 1:02:26 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/19/2012 3:24:21 PM, question4u wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:59:26 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:
Can anyone explain the christian trinity according to the bible alone, and not what a pastor or friend taught you or even your parents, just based upon what you learned about it. Also according to this trinity when was it introduced to the church? Would I go to hell if I dont believe in the trinity:?

The Bible clearly teaches a trinitarian Godhead; three distinct personalities that are of the same substance: GOD.

The Father is the creator, the source of all things..

Jesus is The Word, the true expression, the physical representation of the invisible Father..

The Holy Spirit is expression of the Fathers love for the Son and the Sons love for the Father..

This is not bible but a belief on an outside source, Everything you said is not even bible but base upon what you think the bible says give me some quotes from the bible that at least agree with what you stated above. I dont want to hear your faith because you may not even believe in the entire new testament as a christian. Give me some quotes where I can at least stand firm with you.

Ok..

Jesus:

John1:1
In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and THE WORD WAS GOD.
John1:14
THE WORD BECAME FLESH and made His dwelling among us.

The Spirit:

John14:23
Jesus replied 'if anyone loves me he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him and WE WILL COME TO HIM AND MAKE OUR HOME WITH HIM'

Pull up to the B-ump-a baby..


You missed the Point... in John 14:23 it said obey his teaching the father then will love them. Where did his teaching come from? Yes the same thing the old testament prophets and righteous men and women was talking about, the same teaching are being stated here.

No, you missed it: ' then WE will come to him.. '
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
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11/21/2012 1:42:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/21/2012 1:29:38 PM, question4u wrote:
At 11/21/2012 11:29:51 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2012 1:33:30 PM, question4u wrote:
At 11/20/2012 12:49:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2012 10:18:44 AM, question4u wrote:
At 11/20/2012 3:09:25 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2012 1:58:03 AM, Composer wrote:
At 11/19/2012 2:03:57 PM, question4u wrote:

so are you going to tell me that the mind is not spirit and spirit is not the mind.

No, I'm telling you that that this translation of Jn 1: 1, 14 to which you consented is ridiculous:

"In the beginning was the Mind of God , and the Mind of God was with God, and the Mind of God was God ... And the Mind of God became a person, and dwelt among us"

Now. Such a perversion is, for one thing, totally unsupportable based upon any Greek text. For another, it makes the verse convey nonsense: "the mind of God was with God." Does that make any sense. And even worse: "the Mind of God was God." Then the "Mind of God" became a "person."

Now to your question: "So are you going to tell me that the mind is not spirit and spirit is not the mind."

Certainly the mind of a man is not the spirit. I've never heard of anyone who said the two were synonymous.

I see your mind is the box of christianity, but tell me how many times have to you compromise your faith for you on selfish desires?

Could you rephrase that? Interpreting jibberish isn't my strong point.

the words that I speak they are Spirit and they are life.. They are what? yes the words are spirit of course, the mind is spirit of course. Becuase the creator is spirit and is seeking those that will worship him in spirit and in truth. Not in the knowledge of vain teachers.

Nonsense. Just because my cat has a mind and uses it doesn't mean that he has an eternal spirit, does it? The dying words of Stephen? "Lord Jesus, receive my mind"? "As the body without the mind is dead, so faith without works is dead also."? So a person without any brain activity should be hauled off to the mortuary? I'm afraid that you are applying metaphors literally - then talking in circles.



The mind can you see it? Then what is it?

No, I can't see your mind. Heck, I really can't see the stench of a fart, either. Despite the similarities, the mind is not the eternal spirit that dwells within man. As I said, you ask questions, answer nothing, and ramble in circles for some reason.

I gave you the translation of John 1: 1, 14 which you commended:

"In the beginning was the Mind of God , and the Mind of God was with God, and the Mind of God was God ... And the Mind of God became a person, and dwelt among us"

I now ask for any Greek text, any Greek lexicon, any scholar, any commentator which supports such a translation. And why would you say that a person with no brain activity is literally dead, although still breathing and circulating blood? And of what purpose is the statement, "Lord Jesus, receive my mind?"
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."