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Can a Homosexual Make it to Heaven? (Part 1)

elisur
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11/20/2012 3:05:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Going to heaven is an attainable thing " Attainable even of the poorest of the poor!

(Luke 6:20-23)"And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man"s sake.Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets."

Lazarus, in the parable of the rich man, was able to make it to Abraham"s bosom: representing happiness in heaven with the Father.

(Luke 16:19-23)"There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man"s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham"s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."

To the contrary, the rich and the educated that trust in themselves and in their wealth can hardly make it to heaven.

(Mark 10:23-24)"And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!"

The rich are admonished by God to trust in Him, and not on their wealth to be worthy of the kingdom of heaven.

(1 Timothy 6:17-19)"Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded; nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life."

Homosexuals have made it to the congress and the senate of my home country.The possibility of an empire having ruled by a homosexual is 100 percent.

Homosexuals are human beings.All human beings are product of God"s pro-creative power.What is attainable by "normal" human beings (if homosexuals are considered by others as abnormal) can be equally attained by them, also.But how about making it to heaven?The Bible has this to say:

(1 Corinthians 6:9-11)"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

The verses made mention of "effeminate" or homosexuals, and abusers of themselves with men, but they were accepted in the Church and sanctified through the power of God and the Spirit of Christ.

God wants all men to be saved.

(1 Timothy 2:4)""who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.RSV

Many a pastor or religious leader of our time has erroneously associated homosexuality with sodomy.They mock homosexuals and condemn them to hell because Sodom was destroyed by God and appointed unto everlasting destruction; but a careful study of the scriptures will reveal to us that homosexuality is not sodomy and sodomy is not homosexuality.

Sodom and Gomorrah were not the only cities destroyed by God as many perceived.Actually, there are more cities surrounding Sodom and Gomorrah that were brought by God to destruction.

(Jude 1:7)"Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

The verse says that this cities " including Sodom and Gomorrah, have given themselves to fornication and have gone after strange flesh.

STRANGE?

Yes, becausethey have, in their lust, "left the natural use of women and burned in their lust one towards another, men with men, and women with women"!THESE ARE NOT HOMOSEXUALS.Homosexuals, in their desire, do not lust with women.Although a homosexual do it with a man, he does not do it with a woman.These people of Sodom and Gomorrah are not homosexuals, but perverts. The parallelism was mentioned by Jude.Observe the two verses:

(Jude 1:6-7)"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

The "angels" mentioned by Jude left their "own habitation" and kept not their first estate, even as Sodom and Gomorrah have left the "natural" and turned into strange flesh. What did these angels do, prompting God to condemn them into eternal fire?

(Genesis 6:1-7)"And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."

These sons of God who took the daughters of men as wives are angels!Angels are called in the Bible as "sons of God" singing with joy during the laying of the foundation of the world, when there were no human beings yet.

(Job 38:4-7)"Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

Some of these angels sinned against God when they left their first estate and habitation, and mingled with humans, and have produced a hybrid called "giants" in the days of Noah.These angels are the spirits that were imprisoned, to whom Christ, when He died, visited and to whom He heralded His victory over evil, according to Peter.
(1 Peter 3:18-20)"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."
elisur
Posts: 144
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11/20/2012 3:16:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/20/2012 3:08:40 AM, FREEDO wrote:
They go to gay heaven.

Heaven is great.

But gay heaven is faaaaaaaaabuuloooouussssss.

yes follow the will of God
Composer
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11/20/2012 4:15:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/20/2012 3:05:08 AM, elisur wrote:
Going to heaven is an attainable thing " Attainable even of the poorest of the poor!

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Not according to the Story book bible!

Pick which version you prefer & state ' why ' and then do your utmost to prove your case?

I'll be patiently waiting to read what you think you have and respond to it if you actually come up with something you, your jebus & its god(s) you wish to try your luck against me with?

At 11/20/2012 3:05:08 AM, elisur wrote:
The verses made mention of "effeminate" or homosexuals, and abusers of themselves with men, but they were accepted in the Church and sanctified through the power of God and the Spirit of Christ.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: For starters, whilst it is true that many churches accepted and even encouraged homosexuals and paedophiles in their midst, such as their priestly gay teachers; that's why the churches are being dragged before the Courts more vigorously today for them having repeatedly promoting what the Story book describes as ' abominations / disgusting things ' and educated & decent people recognise their corruptive & disgraceful influence on decent humanity!

Which only reinforces my evidence that the various (Cults) calling themselves ' a churche ' that have done those disgusting things are NOT legitimate representitives of their Story book teachings according to some text in this regard. catholicism, anglicanism, J.w's immediately springs to my benevolent mind although there are likely many others!

Strong's Concordance renders ' abomination ' as -

BDB/Thayers # 8441
08441 tow`ebah to-ay-baw'} or to`ebah to-ay-baw'}
act part of 08581; TWOT - 2530a; n f
AV - abomination 113, abominable thing 2, abominable 2; 117
1) a disgusting thing, abomination, abominable
1a) in ritual sense (of unclean food, idols, mixed marriages)
1b) in ethical sense (of wickedness etc)

However the problem remains for these various Cults calling themselves ' churches ' that the various bibles they claim to use are actually frequently ' self-contradicting ' and a successful case can be also legitimately made that Story book bible jebus was likely actually a practising homosexual itself!

At 11/20/2012 3:05:08 AM, elisur wrote:
God wants all men to be saved.

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Then IF ANY can actually provide legitimate and testable proofs of ANY Supernatural god(s) then we can ALL relax; for if ANY of them really ' wants this to actually happen ' then unless it/they are as incompetent as the bible Story book one, otherwise it should be a cinch for the mightiest Supernatural Power some dupes trying to sell their Cult Snake-Oil to trick others to believe literally exists, LOL!

Your mentor & literal Saviour moi!
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/20/2012 9:33:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
That's really funny, how homosexuality stands out as some sort of highly controversial lifestyle. I mean, still.

What about child molesters? Can they make it into heaven? Because, there are several Catholic priests that molest children. In fact, it's to the extent that there is a systematic means of maintaining clandestinity in the practice. Systematically, as in, by means of the resources available to the priesthood as an institution. This essentially means that the entire Catholic priesthood is guilty to a degree of engaging or proliferating child molestation. Accordingly, if child molesters cannot make it into heaven, then the entire Catholic religion is led by people who are going to to Hell.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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11/20/2012 10:26:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/20/2012 9:33:52 AM, Ren wrote:
This essentially means that the entire Catholic priesthood is guilty to a degree of engaging or proliferating child molestation.

http://weknowmemes.com...
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Paradox_7
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11/20/2012 12:02:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/20/2012 9:33:52 AM, Ren wrote:
That's really funny, how homosexuality stands out as some sort of highly controversial lifestyle. I mean, still.

What about child molesters? Can they make it into heaven? Because, there are several Catholic priests that molest children. In fact, it's to the extent that there is a systematic means of maintaining clandestinity in the practice. Systematically, as in, by means of the resources available to the priesthood as an institution. This essentially means that the entire Catholic priesthood is guilty to a degree of engaging or proliferating child molestation. Accordingly, if child molesters cannot make it into heaven, then the entire Catholic religion is led by people who are going to to Hell.


I agree, Homosexuality isn't any worse then lusting, coveting, lying, etc.

We all have our weaknesses, and we all struggle with different things. Homosexuality is a sin without a doubt, but a person can struggle with this, like a person struggles with adultry, or lying, or any of the other possible sins.

I think the problem only arises when they do not acknowledge that it's a sin.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
DanielChristopherBlowes
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11/21/2012 10:27:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Scenario:

Two men both leading a homosexual lives have a revelation of God's goodness and forgiveness through faith in Jesus Christ.

The first man does not repent and make God the God of his life, but rather ignores Gods word and finds a 'church' where homosexuality is fully accepted. It so happens that this man never again has sexual relations with another man, though not for want of trying.

The second man repents of his former life, makes God his God and embraces his new life in Christ.
However, old habits of the flesh die hard, and one night after a few too many drinks, he falls into bed with an old boyfriend.
He then repents of his sin and confesses it to the church leadership who agree to support and pray for him.
This fall back into sin is repeated often over the next few years, but he keeps repenting and slowly escapes the old deception.

The second man will be saved, the first not.

The difference? A decision of the heart: be your own god or make Him who is God, Lord of your life.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
DanielChristopherBlowes
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11/22/2012 3:47:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/21/2012 10:27:39 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
Scenario:

Two men both leading a homosexual lives have a revelation of God's goodness and forgiveness through faith in Jesus Christ.

The first man does not repent and make God the God of his life, but rather ignores Gods word and finds a 'church' where homosexuality is fully accepted. It so happens that this man never again has sexual relations with another man, though not for want of trying.

The second man repents of his former life, makes God his God and embraces his new life in Christ.
However, old habits of the flesh die hard, and one night after a few too many drinks, he falls into bed with an old boyfriend.
He then repents of his sin and confesses it to the church leadership who agree to support and pray for him.
This fall back into sin is repeated often over the next few years, but he keeps repenting and slowly escapes the old deception.

The second man will be saved, the first not.

The difference? A decision of the heart: be your own god or make Him who is God, Lord of your life.

BuuuuuuuUUUUUUUUUuuuummmmmppppp.....
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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11/22/2012 10:36:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
If a murderer, a thief, and a rapist can make it to heaven, I'm pretty darn sure a homosexual can.
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DanielChristopherBlowes
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11/22/2012 4:32:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/22/2012 10:36:15 AM, OberHerr wrote:
If a murderer, a thief, and a rapist can make it to heaven, I'm pretty darn sure a homosexual can.

A repentant one, yes..
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
elisur
Posts: 144
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11/22/2012 8:14:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The true homosexual christian not wear like this::
(RSV) Deuteronomy 22:5 "A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.
DanielChristopherBlowes
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11/23/2012 1:49:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/22/2012 8:14:35 PM, elisur wrote:
The true homosexual christian not wear like this::
(RSV) Deuteronomy 22:5 "A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.

There is no such thing as a homosexual Christian; there are Christians with a homosexual past (who may not have completely overcome temptation) and there are unrepentant homosexuals.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
elisur
Posts: 144
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11/23/2012 3:13:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Homosexual is a:from child to adult his feeling is different from they original being.if she a girl her in original status but her feeling is a boy.
Composer
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11/23/2012 4:16:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/23/2012 1:49:20 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
There is no such thing as a homosexual Christian; . . . .

According to their claimed preferred Story book, the next genuine Story book based believer outside of Story book land will be the very first in man's history!

Nor is there legitimate Story book evidence of ' heaven going to where Story book jebus went ' for ANY genuine believer, even IF ever one can be found?

Your mentor & literal Saviour moi!

Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster!
DanielChristopherBlowes
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11/24/2012 5:52:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/23/2012 3:13:22 AM, elisur wrote:
Homosexual is a:from child to adult his feeling is different from they original being.if she a girl her in original status but her feeling is a boy.

No, our thoughts become feelings which in turn become actions..

Hence we must 'take every thought captive' and replace them with the word of God.

It is FREEDOM.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
DanielChristopherBlowes
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11/26/2012 8:51:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/21/2012 10:27:39 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:

Scenario:

Two men both leading a homosexual lives have a revelation of God's goodness and forgiveness through faith in Jesus Christ.

The first man does not repent and make God the God of his life, but rather ignores Gods word and finds a 'church' where homosexuality is fully accepted. It so happens that this man never again has sexual relations with another man, though not for want of trying.

The second man repents of his former life, makes God his God and embraces his new life in Christ.
However, old habits of the flesh die hard, and one night after a few too many drinks, he falls into bed with an old boyfriend.
He then repents of his sin and confesses it to the church leadership who agree to support and pray for him.
This fall back into sin is repeated often over the next few years, but he keeps repenting and slowly escapes the old deception.

The second man will be saved, the first not.

The difference? A decision of the heart: be your own god or make Him who is God, Lord of your life.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/26/2012 9:10:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 8:51:30 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/21/2012 10:27:39 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:

Scenario:

Two men both leading a homosexual lives have a revelation of God's goodness and forgiveness through faith in Jesus Christ.

The first man does not repent and make God the God of his life, but rather ignores Gods word and finds a 'church' where homosexuality is fully accepted. It so happens that this man never again has sexual relations with another man, though not for want of trying.

The second man repents of his former life, makes God his God and embraces his new life in Christ.
However, old habits of the flesh die hard, and one night after a few too many drinks, he falls into bed with an old boyfriend.
He then repents of his sin and confesses it to the church leadership who agree to support and pray for him.
This fall back into sin is repeated often over the next few years, but he keeps repenting and slowly escapes the old deception.

The second man will be saved, the first not.

The difference? A decision of the heart: be your own god or make Him who is God, Lord of your life.

Two things about this.

First, the scripture. Now, sure, there are the statements in the Bible that suggest God was quite against homosexuality, but let's put that in context. Those statements were made in reference to societal rules laid out to ensure that the society at that time endures. There were also rather peculiar rules, such as burning people at the stake for strange, tawdry, talk show-esque love affairs, such as sleeping with your wife and her mother at the same time or some such things.

However, there are also parts of the scripture where it seemed as though it was God who imposed homosexuality on disobedient humans. Drawing from my favorite book in the Bible (Romans), the scripture states:

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God"s invisible qualities"his eternal power and divine nature"have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator"who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

As you can see here, people were disobedient and worshipped graven images that detracted from God, such as reptiles and people and whatever (which is interesting, it suggests that there is a certain implied blasphemy in images of God), and so God made them gay. This is literally what the scripture here states. What says you about that?

The second issue I'd like to approach is your suggestion of several Christian catchphrases that refer to tenets of the contemporary ideology, such as a "life of sin" and such things in order to describe homosexuality. I think it's curious that it's this aspect of sexuality specifically (as opposed to, say, adultery, which actually appears on the Ten Commandments) has some enduring effect that suddenly marks and sullies someone as one who lead a "life of sin." I mean, sure, you can consider it an act of lust, but so is fantasizing while jerking off or watching porn. As is sex out of wedlock. This is all not to mention that there are 6 other deadlies capable of consuming your soul before your tenure here in life is up. For example, every single time you and everyone else on this forum has eaten when they were not hungry, they committed an act of gluttony. That's right; candy is nothing but little drops of sin, manifest. Thanksgiving, before which Americans traditionally have a communal Christian prayer, is a holiday steeped in gluttony and consumerism. Of course, consumerism could be more attributed to greed.

I can go on.

So, all this nonsense about a "life of sin" is preposterous when you really think about it from the scope of sin. The fact is that a homosexual is no more guilty or tainted or sinful as anyone else, literally. Literally.

Like, it can't get any more literal than that. As "weird" and "strange" and "uncommon" and "unnatural" as you may interpret it, the fact is that it's not that special.
DanielChristopherBlowes
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11/26/2012 10:07:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 9:10:58 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/26/2012 8:51:30 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/21/2012 10:27:39 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:

Scenario:

Two men both leading a homosexual lives have a revelation of God's goodness and forgiveness through faith in Jesus Christ.

The first man does not repent and make God the God of his life, but rather ignores Gods word and finds a 'church' where homosexuality is fully accepted. It so happens that this man never again has sexual relations with another man, though not for want of trying.

The second man repents of his former life, makes God his God and embraces his new life in Christ.
However, old habits of the flesh die hard, and one night after a few too many drinks, he falls into bed with an old boyfriend.
He then repents of his sin and confesses it to the church leadership who agree to support and pray for him.
This fall back into sin is repeated often over the next few years, but he keeps repenting and slowly escapes the old deception.

The second man will be saved, the first not.

The difference? A decision of the heart: be your own god or make Him who is God, Lord of your life.

Two things about this.

First, the scripture. Now, sure, there are the statements in the Bible that suggest God was quite against homosexuality, but let's put that in context. Those statements were made in reference to societal rules laid out to ensure that the society at that time endures. There were also rather peculiar rules, such as burning people at the stake for strange, tawdry, talk show-esque love affairs, such as sleeping with your wife and her mother at the same time or some such things.

However, there are also parts of the scripture where it seemed as though it was God who imposed homosexuality on disobedient humans. Drawing from my favorite book in the Bible (Romans), the scripture states:


18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God"s invisible qualities"his eternal power and divine nature"have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator"who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

As you can see here, people were disobedient and worshipped graven images that detracted from God, such as reptiles and people and whatever (which is interesting, it suggests that there is a certain implied blasphemy in images of God), and so God made them gay. This is literally what the scripture here states. What says you about that?

No, He withdraws His protection from the deceiving spirit of homosexuality.

The second issue I'd like to approach is your suggestion of several Christian catchphrases that refer to tenets of the contemporary ideology, such as a "life of sin" and such things in order to describe homosexuality. I think it's curious that it's this aspect of sexuality specifically (as opposed to, say, adultery, which actually appears on the Ten Commandments) has some enduring effect that suddenly marks and sullies someone as one who lead a "life of sin." I mean, sure, you can consider it an act of lust, but so is fantasizing while jerking off or watching porn. As is sex out of wedlock. This is all not to mention that there are 6 other deadlies capable of consuming your soul before your tenure here in life is up. For example, every single time you and everyone else on this forum has eaten when they were not hungry, they committed an act of gluttony. That's right; candy is nothing but little drops of sin, manifest. Thanksgiving, before which Americans traditionally have a communal Christian prayer, is a holiday steeped in gluttony and consumerism. Of course, consumerism could be more attributed to greed.

I can go on.

So, all this nonsense about a "life of sin" is preposterous when you really think about it from the scope of sin. The fact is that a homosexual is no more guilty or tainted or sinful as anyone else, literally. Literally.

Homosexuality is the subject of this forum topic, but what I've said can be true of anyone caught in any sin yes.

Like, it can't get any more literal than that. As "weird" and "strange" and "uncommon" and "unnatural" as you may interpret it, the fact is that it's not that special.

It's special for being the topic at hand, and also the stick satan is beating the Church with at the moment..

You have not addressed the main thrust of my argument; that sin is not homosexuality or adultery etc but BEING YOUR OWN GOD.. if God is your God then these things you will fight to escape.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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11/26/2012 10:37:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/22/2012 4:32:23 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 11/22/2012 10:36:15 AM, OberHerr wrote:
If a murderer, a thief, and a rapist can make it to heaven, I'm pretty darn sure a homosexual can.

A repentant one, yes..

I'm sure there are many things a particular homosexual should be repentant about, but I doubt their sexual orientation or identity should be included in that list.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/26/2012 8:21:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 10:07:14 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:

It's special for being the topic at hand, and also the stick satan is beating the Church with at the moment..

Homosexuality is not a condition, nor is it an affront to the Church. If anything is beating the Church with a stick right now, it's child molestation.

What I think is further disconcerting, is how little accountability your wording suggests. If you really think about it, Satan isn't really doing anything, now is he? It's a bunch of people, misbehaving, because they choose to.

You have not addressed the main thrust of my argument; that sin is not homosexuality or adultery etc but BEING YOUR OWN GOD.. if God is your God then these things you will fight to escape.

So, yeah, as I was saying before, homosexuality is not a condition from which one needs to escape. That's just how some people are. They're sexually attracted to those of the same gender/sex. It's alright. That really isn't a big deal.

Do me a favor.

I need you to really sit down and think about sexuality like an adult. Think about all the nasty things that you've done by yourself or with the women you've been with. Really think about it. Everyone has the nasty little things they're into that they don't even discuss with themselves very often.

Anyway, now really think about homosexuality. Not the abstract, puritainsitic repulsion you're conditioned into thinking about. No, really sit there and, maturely, think about what homosexuality is. There is a guy, and he really likes this other guy. They get along well, they have fun together, and they get sexual. They're not doing anything to anyone else. They're just handling their business, doing what they want to do as grown men.

Now, think about two women doing the same thing. They hang out, they really vibe, they realize they're attracted to one another, and they sleep together. They start spending a lot of time with each other and hanging out, sharing bits and pieces of their lives, and occasionally, making out and/or having sex. It involves no one else and, ultimately, is no one else's business.

Now, you tell me that these people deserve torture for all eternity, because they don't have some masochistic complex about their natural inclinations and their regular asss lifestyles. I mean, remember all the dirty little things you remembered about yourself? Yeah, no one is judging you for that, or even demanding that they know. No one is telling you that you're less of a person, or that some eternal being hates you, because something turned you on inexplicably, which has nothing to do with anyone else in the world.

You see what I mean?
naturebeckles
Posts: 73
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11/26/2012 8:45:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
: At 11/26/2012 8:21:12 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/26/2012 10:07:14 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:

It's special for being the topic at hand, and also the stick satan is beating the Church with at the moment..

Homosexuality is not a condition, nor is it an affront to the Church. If anything is beating the Church with a stick right now, it's child molestation.

What I think is further disconcerting, is how little accountability your wording suggests. If you really think about it, Satan isn't really doing anything, now is he? It's a bunch of people, misbehaving, because they choose to.

You have not addressed the main thrust of my argument; that sin is not homosexuality or adultery etc but BEING YOUR OWN GOD.. if God is your God then these things you will fight to escape.

So, yeah, as I was saying before, homosexuality is not a condition from which one needs to escape. That's just how some people are. They're sexually attracted to those of the same gender/sex. It's alright. That really isn't a big deal.

Do me a favor.

I need you to really sit down and think about sexuality like an adult. Think about all the nasty things that you've done by yourself or with the women you've been with. Really think about it. Everyone has the nasty little things they're into that they don't even discuss with themselves very often.

Anyway, now really think about homosexuality. Not the abstract, puritainsitic repulsion you're conditioned into thinking about. No, really sit there and, maturely, think about what homosexuality is. There is a guy, and he really likes this other guy. They get along well, they have fun together, and they get sexual. They're not doing anything to anyone else. They're just handling their business, doing what they want to do as grown men.

Now, think about two women doing the same thing. They hang out, they really vibe, they realize they're attracted to one another, and they sleep together. They start spending a lot of time with each other and hanging out, sharing bits and pieces of their lives, and occasionally, making out and/or having sex. It involves no one else and, ultimately, is no one else's business.

Now, you tell me that these people deserve torture for all eternity, because they don't have some masochistic complex about their natural inclinations and their regular asss lifestyles. I mean, remember all the dirty little things you remembered about yourself? Yeah, no one is judging you for that, or even demanding that they know. No one is telling you that you're less of a person, or that some eternal being hates you, because something turned you on inexplicably, which has nothing to do with anyone else in the world.

You see what I mean?


Very excellent post.

I'd also like to expand on the child sex abuse.

I used to belong to an Independent Fundamental Baptist church and even though I was lucky enough to not get sexually abused, many people in that church cult movement have. there are blogs and pages devoted to people recovering from the mess of that church movement.

Anyway, I have a HUGE problem with a religion who through both the IFBs and Catholics have tried to hide all the sexual abuse to children - to work at extensive lengths to hide such abuse from the authorities - to move pastors and priests around to new congregations so they can keep abusing new victims. But yet, to have a normal relationship with someone of the same gender is a damnable hell offense without repentance?

You know what I say to that? F*ck Christianity.
"Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own." Bruce Lee
elisur
Posts: 144
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11/26/2012 9:59:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 8:45:38 PM, naturebeckles wrote:
: At 11/26/2012 8:21:12 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/26/2012 10:07:14 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:

It's special for being the topic at hand, and also the stick satan is beating the Church with at the moment..

Homosexuality is not a condition, nor is it an affront to the Church. If anything is beating the Church with a stick right now, it's child molestation.

What I think is further disconcerting, is how little accountability your wording suggests. If you really think about it, Satan isn't really doing anything, now is he? It's a bunch of people, misbehaving, because they choose to.

You have not addressed the main thrust of my argument; that sin is not homosexuality or adultery etc but BEING YOUR OWN GOD.. if God is your God then these things you will fight to escape.

So, yeah, as I was saying before, homosexuality is not a condition from which one needs to escape. That's just how some people are. They're sexually attracted to those of the same gender/sex. It's alright. That really isn't a big deal.

Do me a favor.

I need you to really sit down and think about sexuality like an adult. Think about all the nasty things that you've done by yourself or with the women you've been with. Really think about it. Everyone has the nasty little things they're into that they don't even discuss with themselves very often.

Anyway, now really think about homosexuality. Not the abstract, puritainsitic repulsion you're conditioned into thinking about. No, really sit there and, maturely, think about what homosexuality is. There is a guy, and he really likes this other guy. They get along well, they have fun together, and they get sexual. They're not doing anything to anyone else. They're just handling their business, doing what they want to do as grown men.

Now, think about two women doing the same thing. They hang out, they really vibe, they realize they're attracted to one another, and they sleep together. They start spending a lot of time with each other and hanging out, sharing bits and pieces of their lives, and occasionally, making out and/or having sex. It involves no one else and, ultimately, is no one else's business.

Now, you tell me that these people deserve torture for all eternity, because they don't have some masochistic complex about their natural inclinations and their regular asss lifestyles. I mean, remember all the dirty little things you remembered about yourself? Yeah, no one is judging you for that, or even demanding that they know. No one is telling you that you're less of a person, or that some eternal being hates you, because something turned you on inexplicably, which has nothing to do with anyone else in the world.

You see what I mean?


Very excellent post.

I'd also like to expand on the child sex abuse.

I used to belong to an Independent Fundamental Baptist church and even though I was lucky enough to not get sexually abused, many people in that church cult movement have. there are blogs and pages devoted to people recovering from the mess of that church movement.

Anyway, I have a HUGE problem with a religion who through both the IFBs and Catholics have tried to hide all the sexual abuse to children - to work at extensive lengths to hide such abuse from the authorities - to move pastors and priests around to new congregations so they can keep abusing new victims. But yet, to have a normal relationship with someone of the same gender is a damnable hell offense without repentance?

You know what I say to that? F*ck Christianity.

homosexual in the true church of God not relationship with someone of the same gender. homosexual in the church endureth temptation.its single until the AMEN
naturebeckles
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11/27/2012 6:32:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago

: ::homosexual in the true church of God not relationship with someone of the same gender. homosexual in the church endureth temptation.its single until the AMEN

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.
"Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own." Bruce Lee
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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11/27/2012 7:22:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 8:21:12 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/26/2012 10:07:14 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:

It's special for being the topic at hand, and also the stick satan is beating the Church with at the moment..

Homosexuality is not a condition, nor is it an affront to the Church. If anything is beating the Church with a stick right now, it's child molestation.

It's an affront to a Holy God who designed us men to fit with women, like we designed a nut to fit with a bolt.

What I think is further disconcerting, is how little accountability your wording suggests. If you really think about it, Satan isn't really doing anything, now is he? It's a bunch of people, misbehaving, because they choose to.

That's the original LIE; 'do as you like and be your own god, making ME (satan) your god'.

You have not addressed the main thrust of my argument; that sin is not homosexuality or adultery etc but BEING YOUR OWN GOD.. if God is your God then these things you will fight to escape.

So, yeah, as I was saying before, homosexuality is not a condition from which one needs to escape. That's just how some people are. They're sexually attracted to those of the same gender/sex. It's alright. That really isn't a big deal.

Very big deal, it's symptom that you are still your own god, judging for yourself what is right from wrong.

Do me a favor.

I need you to really sit down and think about sexuality like an adult. Think about all the nasty things that you've done by yourself or with the women you've been with. Really think about it. Everyone has the nasty little things they're into that they don't even discuss with themselves very often.

My past is wiped clean.. This is available for ALL who put there truth in Christ.

Anyway, now really think about homosexuality. Not the abstract, puritainsitic repulsion you're conditioned into thinking about. No, really sit there and, maturely, think about what homosexuality is. There is a guy, and he really likes this other guy. They get along well, they have fun together, and they get sexual. They're not doing anything to anyone else. They're just handling their business, doing what they want to do as grown men.

I have no wish to consider sodomy.

Now, think about two women doing the same thing. They hang out, they really vibe, they realize they're attracted to one another, and they sleep together. They start spending a lot of time with each other and hanging out, sharing bits and pieces of their lives, and occasionally, making out and/or having sex. It involves no one else and, ultimately, is no one else's business.

People of the same sex cannot have sex.

Now, you tell me that these people deserve torture for all eternity, because they don't have some masochistic complex about their natural inclinations and their regular asss lifestyles. I mean, remember all the dirty little things you remembered about yourself? Yeah, no one is judging you for that, or even demanding that they know. No one is telling you that you're less of a person, or that some eternal being hates you, because something turned you on inexplicably, which has nothing to do with anyone else in the world.

You see what I mean?

There's nothing natural about it.. A thought ('becoming a homosexual will repay my father for all the crap I've taken from him') becomes a feeling (lust) becomes an action (sodomy) hence we Christians 'take every thought captive and make it subject to Christ'.

Sin (being your own god) not sins (homosexuality, theft, adultery etc) is what sends you to hell.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
Ren
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11/27/2012 9:26:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/27/2012 7:22:02 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:

It's an affront to a Holy God who designed us men to fit with women, like we designed a nut to fit with a bolt.

Lol, well, the divorce rate begs to differ.

But, this opens up another argument -- another one of those catchphrases -- "by design." See, what you're suggesting here is that homosexuals choose to be homosexuals. You surely don't believe this, do you? Do you really feel as though your sexuality is a choice? In other words, do you feel as though you'd have no problem sleeping with a man, but you simply choose not to in order to abide by your religious principles? Or, did you just notice that you were sexually attracted to women one day when you were a kid, before you even understood any concept of religion? Because, that's how it is for straight people. If it's any different for you, then you're likely gay or bi.

That's the original LIE; 'do as you like and be your own god, making ME (satan) your god'.

Hmm, so, doing as one likes is literally satanic worship? It almost seems as though you're suggesting that everyone is predisposed to homosexuality.

Very big deal, it's symptom that you are still your own god, judging for yourself what is right from wrong.

Well, see, that's the thing -- ultimately, we must judge for ourselves what is right and wrong. It is our responsibility as sentient, conscious beings that know and understand the difference. The way it's written in the Bible, God does not judge people based on what they believe, the words they followed, or the laws they kept. They're judged by what's in their hearts -- how they're truly are. This extends to both Christians and non-Christians.

My past is wiped clean.. This is available for ALL who put there truth in Christ.

Lol, no... in reality, it's not. It's still there, and it always will be. It has contributed to exactly who you are.

I have no wish to consider sodomy.

You mean, anal sex? Well, it is what it is -- all sorts of people do that, including heterosexuals. In fact, I'd say it's probably 50/50, those who go the anal route, and those who don't, and that's exclusively in the heterosexual world. It really isn't that fantastical. They don't contort themselves in strage positions or anything like this (well, generally speaking). They have sex just like men and women do, albeit, within the scope of its limitations.

People of the same sex cannot have sex.

People of the same sex do have sex.

There's nothing natural about it.. A thought ('becoming a homosexual will repay my father for all the crap I've taken from him') becomes a feeling (lust) becomes an action (sodomy) hence we Christians 'take every thought captive and make it subject to Christ'.

That's a funny way of thinking about it -- unless you want to use the devil as a scapegoat for humanity, then you have to acknowledge that we came this way. It is completely and entirely natural for some members of a highly sexual, large-scale population to exhibit homosexual behavior, and this is by no means exclusive to humanity.

Sin (being your own god) not sins (homosexuality, theft, adultery etc) is what sends you to hell.

Can you go into more detail as to what the catchphrase "being your own god" refers to specifically, please?
DanielChristopherBlowes
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11/27/2012 11:11:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/27/2012 9:26:48 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/27/2012 7:22:02 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:

It's an affront to a Holy God who designed us men to fit with women, like we designed a nut to fit with a bolt.

Lol, well, the divorce rate begs to differ.

But, this opens up another argument -- another one of those catchphrases -- "by design." See, what you're suggesting here is that homosexuals choose to be homosexuals. You surely don't believe this, do you? Do you really feel as though your sexuality is a choice? In other words, do you feel as though you'd have no problem sleeping with a man, but you simply choose not to in order to abide by your religious principles? Or, did you just notice that you were sexually attracted to women one day when you were a kid, before you even understood any concept of religion? Because, that's how it is for straight people. If it's any different for you, then you're likely gay or bi.

We all choose everything we do, it's called free will.

That's the original LIE; 'do as you like and be your own god, making ME (satan) your god'.

Hmm, so, doing as one likes is literally satanic worship? It almost seems as though you're suggesting that everyone is predisposed to homosexuality.

Not at all, being working class meant I chose other sins, such as theft and violence.

Very big deal, it's symptom that you are still your own god, judging for yourself what is right from wrong.

Well, see, that's the thing -- ultimately, we must judge for ourselves what is right and wrong. It is our responsibility as sentient, conscious beings that know and understand the difference. The way it's written in the Bible, God does not judge people based on what they believe, the words they followed, or the laws they kept. They're judged by what's in their hearts -- how they're truly are. This extends to both Christians and non-Christians.

Judging for ourselves is sin, and separates us from God.

My past is wiped clean.. This is available for ALL who put there truth in Christ.

Lol, no... in reality, it's not. It's still there, and it always will be. It has contributed to exactly who you are.

No, it is wiped clean, because I call it sin, I agree with Him, I make Him God; only sinners get into heaven.

I have no wish to consider sodomy.

You mean, anal sex? Well, it is what it is -- all sorts of people do that, including heterosexuals. In fact, I'd say it's probably 50/50, those who go the anal route, and those who don't, and that's exclusively in the heterosexual world. It really isn't that fantastical. They don't contort themselves in strage positions or anything like this (well, generally speaking). They have sex just like men and women do, albeit, within the scope of its limitations.

No, sodomy is not sex.

People of the same sex cannot have sex.

People of the same sex do have sex.

No, they don't.

There's nothing natural about it.. A thought ('becoming a homosexual will repay my father for all the crap I've taken from him') becomes a feeling (lust) becomes an action (sodomy) hence we Christians 'take every thought captive and make it subject to Christ'.

That's a funny way of thinking about it -- unless you want to use the devil as a scapegoat for humanity, then you have to acknowledge that we came this way. It is completely and entirely natural for some members of a highly sexual, large-scale population to exhibit homosexual behavior, and this is by no means exclusive to humanity.

The devils not a scape goat, we chose his word over Gods and made him the 'god of this world' hence homosexuality is demonic.

Sin (being your own god) not sins (homosexuality, theft, adultery etc) is what sends you to hell.

Can you go into more detail as to what the catchphrase "being your own god" refers to specifically, please?

Sure, in the genesis account God warns Adam not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, or he will surely die.

Who has the knowledge of good and evil? Only God.

So to eat that fruit, as Adam did, is to become your own god; wrongly believing you know better than God.

By choosing satan's word, Adam actually made him his (and the worlds) god.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
naturebeckles
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11/27/2012 8:18:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Homosexuality is in fact, natural.

You make assertions that are untrue. And the only "evidence" you have to back up your claim is the Bible.

Do you have anything other than religion to back up that assertion?
"Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own." Bruce Lee
Paradox_7
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11/27/2012 8:51:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/27/2012 8:18:40 PM, naturebeckles wrote:
Homosexuality is in fact, natural.

You must explain what you mean by natural. While I don't have any particular problem with homosexuals other then my belief that it is a sin, I think it's a bit rediculous to claim that it's natural; as in a proper function.

I understand people seem to be homosexual from the start, but this is about as natural as being color blind or lactose intolerant.

You make assertions that are untrue. And the only "evidence" you have to back up your claim is the Bible.

No, the only claim i take from the bible in regards to homosexuality, is that it, just like the hundreds of other equally sinful things, is offensive to God.

Do you have anything other than religion to back up that assertion?

The point most people would be making, is that natural is referring to correct. Homosexuality is obviously natural, but then again, so is murder. This beg's the question: "Is what's natural always good?"

I believe the Christians on here will agree that it's not always good.

Evidence of this would be in the health risks associated with homosexuality; sexually. The fact that the primary method of sex for homosexuals is a gamble everytime it's performed. Either gay or lesbian.

All homosexual are at the top of the threat list for STD's; serious ones as well as cureable ones.

The other issues homosexuality produces, are psychological; compulsive behavior.

More likely to abuse drugs or alcholo, more likely to be depressed, or overy sensitive - emotionally and personally.

http://www.frc.org...

http://www.narth.com...

So though it may be natural, it doesn't seem to be good; just like any other disorder, it needs to be treated, not endorsed.

You don't see any bipolar people trying to promote bipolarity; which is also a common disorder found among homosexuals.

http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com...
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
popculturepooka
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11/27/2012 9:13:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/27/2012 8:51:09 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:

All homosexual are at the top of the threat list for STD's; serious ones as well as cureable ones.


You know that lesbians have the lowest rates of STD infections, right?

The other issues homosexuality produces, are psychological; compulsive behavior.

More likely to abuse drugs or alcholo, more likely to be depressed, or overy sensitive - emotionally and personally.

http://www.frc.org...

http://www.narth.com...


I'm sure that has more to do with societal pressures, prejudices and bigotry than anything innate...
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!