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100 Reasons Why Creationism Is Smart

Enji
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11/25/2012 3:53:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
1. The bible is the literal word of god, and that's what it says. (this is debatable and may or may not support creationism being smart, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt)
2. Evolution is just a theory, and not a very good one at that (actually, I'm not sure how criticism of evolution helps show that creationism is smart, but oh well)
3. Kent Hovind says so
4. ...
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Umm, that's all I have so far.. I think I need some help on my list.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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11/25/2012 6:27:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 3:58:12 PM, Wnope wrote:
Lotsa smart people before 1860 believed in Creationism.

Therefore, Creationism is true.

The funny thing is that intelligent people are equally as disposed to believing false and ridiculous things as people with below average intelligence. It simply isn't a matter of reasoning capacity, but persuasions and predispositions established by culture, heredity, and personality.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
medic0506
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11/25/2012 6:27:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 3:53:59 PM, Enji wrote:
1. The bible is the literal word of god, and that's what it says. (this is debatable and may or may not support creationism being smart, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt)
2. Evolution is just a theory, and not a very good one at that (actually, I'm not sure how criticism of evolution helps show that creationism is smart, but oh well)
3. Kent Hovind says so
4. ...
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Umm, that's all I have so far.. I think I need some help on my list.

Indeed, you need some help with...your list.

1. It acknowledges God as the one and only creator.
2. It recognizes the beauty and diversity of God's creation as evidence of His power.
3. It recognizes that although God gave us intelligence, there are things about His works that we can't know.
4. It recognizes the Bible as God's word.
5. It believes the part of the Bible that says there will be scoffers. These scoffers even resort to claiming that things can create themselves from nothing, in order to avoid having to admit that God exists.

Ok there ya go, a good start.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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11/25/2012 6:37:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 3:53:59 PM, Enji wrote:
1. The bible is the literal word of god, and that's what it says. (this is debatable and may or may not support creationism being smart, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt)

Most creationists don't use that argument.

2. Evolution is just a theory, and not a very good one at that (actually, I'm not sure how criticism of evolution helps show that creationism is smart, but oh well)

Only the amateur creationists use the "just a theory" line. If you can refute evolution, then creationism is the only reasonable option left.

3. Kent Hovind says so

Only some creationists are into the Kent Hovind arguments and these ones only use his arguments, and don't assert creationism is true just because he said so.

4. ...
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Umm, that's all I have so far.. I think I need some help on my list.

You will have trouble debating creationists who know their stuff.
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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11/25/2012 7:11:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 6:37:44 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 11/25/2012 3:53:59 PM, Enji wrote:
1. The bible is the literal word of god, and that's what it says. (this is debatable and may or may not support creationism being smart, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt)

Most creationists don't use that argument.

Thus, Medic is not most creationists.

2. Evolution is just a theory, and not a very good one at that (actually, I'm not sure how criticism of evolution helps show that creationism is smart, but oh well)

Only the amateur creationists use the "just a theory" line. If you can refute evolution, then creationism is the only reasonable option left.

Is creationism intended to be scientific? If so, doesn't the evidence need to support it? If not, then is logic alone enough to understand the world, or is the world not meant to be understood?

You will have trouble debating creationists who know their stuff.

Ignoring the opening post, I would like to know what creationism stuff is; there's been a lot of criticism of the evidence not supporting evolution, but no discussion of why evidence supports creationism.
Muted
Posts: 377
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11/25/2012 7:32:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 6:37:44 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 11/25/2012 3:53:59 PM, Enji wrote:
1. The bible is the literal word of god, and that's what it says. (this is debatable and may or may not support creationism being smart, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt)

Most creationists don't use that argument.

2. Evolution is just a theory, and not a very good one at that (actually, I'm not sure how criticism of evolution helps show that creationism is smart, but oh well)

Only the amateur creationists use the "just a theory" line. If you can refute evolution, then creationism is the only reasonable option left.

3. Kent Hovind says so

Only some creationists are into the Kent Hovind arguments and these ones only use his arguments, and don't assert creationism is true just because he said so.

4. ...
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Umm, that's all I have so far.. I think I need some help on my list.

You will have trouble debating creationists who know their stuff.

This guy is right absolutely on this. The "just a theory" argument displays rank ignorance. The "kent hovind said so" argument is an argument that I have never heard before, but which if I see on DDO debates, I will most definitely vote against. The debater would most probably lose anyway.
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Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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11/25/2012 8:00:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Enji is an atheist who posted this ironically. Her second point gave it away...
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tvellalott
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11/25/2012 8:04:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 8:00:36 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Enji is an atheist who posted this ironically. Her second point gave it away...

Dude, you spoiled it.
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Wallstreetatheist
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11/25/2012 8:16:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 8:04:52 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 11/25/2012 8:00:36 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Enji is an atheist who posted this ironically. Her second point gave it away...

Dude, you spoiled it.

Muted and Dan4Reason didn't get it. Sorry to ruin it now for everyone.
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imabench
Posts: 21,211
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11/25/2012 8:26:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Monitoring.....
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DaileyScience
Posts: 9
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11/26/2012 3:21:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is completely rediculous. I have faith in my fellow man not some imaginary friend who comforts the weak. The bible is man made and behind every religion is a mans sinister plan. Religion makes people do crazy things. When would you ever expect a perfectly sane person to mutilate his sons reproductive organ because of his religion. And if god told me to kill my son id have to say no...f*** you. (Guess who im quoting) religion is evil and people have killed far more people than any terrorist ever will plus the victim of the holocaust. These together still wouldnt amount to the murderous crimes commited by these cults. I hate eerything about religion because it is fed by people ignorance and has been dumbing down society for over 2000 years. I refuse to support anyone who supports slavery and genocide as you god does. Use logic to figure out the beauty in this world and live life like you want. You dont need some imaginary tyrant to rule your life. Look at te advances science has brought onto society just in the last 100 years. What has your religion gotten us. Nothing but pain. I dont see any athiest flying planes into buildings, or killing US ambassadors because they offended our beliefs. Stop lieing to yourself and go forth and learn.
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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11/26/2012 10:53:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 6:27:54 PM, medic0506 wrote:

1. It acknowledges God as the one and only creator.
2. It recognizes the beauty and diversity of God's creation as evidence of His power.
3. It recognizes that although God gave us intelligence, there are things about His works that we can't know.
4. It recognizes the Bible as God's word.
5. It believes the part of the Bible that says there will be scoffers. These scoffers even resort to claiming that things can create themselves from nothing, in order to avoid having to admit that God exists.

Ok there ya go, a good start.

How do these show creationism to be true unless you assume the bible to be true, and if assuming the bible is true is the only way to show the truth of creationism, what reasons do we have to believe that the bible is true. Do you believe that the evidence that scientists interpret as evidence for evolution actually support creation, or that what we can observe is irrelevant to the truth of creation? Can creation only be known through the Bible - if so, do you still think it should be taught in science class?
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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11/26/2012 10:57:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 7:32:56 PM, Muted wrote:
At 11/25/2012 6:37:44 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 11/25/2012 3:53:59 PM, Enji wrote:
1. The bible is the literal word of god, and that's what it says. (this is debatable and may or may not support creationism being smart, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt)

Most creationists don't use that argument.

2. Evolution is just a theory, and not a very good one at that (actually, I'm not sure how criticism of evolution helps show that creationism is smart, but oh well)

Only the amateur creationists use the "just a theory" line. If you can refute evolution, then creationism is the only reasonable option left.

3. Kent Hovind says so

Only some creationists are into the Kent Hovind arguments and these ones only use his arguments, and don't assert creationism is true just because he said so.

4. ...
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Umm, that's all I have so far.. I think I need some help on my list.

You will have trouble debating creationists who know their stuff.

This guy is right absolutely on this. The "just a theory" argument displays rank ignorance. The "kent hovind said so" argument is an argument that I have never heard before, but which if I see on DDO debates, I will most definitely vote against. The debater would most probably lose anyway.

The "KH said so" argument was just to make it obnoxiously clear that my original points were sarcastically presented. What I'm actually interested in is why people believe creationism. Do creationists believe that the scientific evidence supports their position (and if so, what is that evidence), or do they believe that creationism is true only because of God and the bible?
Enji
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11/26/2012 10:59:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 3:21:55 AM, DaileyScience wrote:
This is completely rediculous. I have faith in my fellow man not some imaginary friend who comforts the weak. The bible is man made and behind every religion is a mans sinister plan. Religion makes people do crazy things. When would you ever expect a perfectly sane person to mutilate his sons reproductive organ because of his religion. And if god told me to kill my son id have to say no...f*** you. (Guess who im quoting) religion is evil and people have killed far more people than any terrorist ever will plus the victim of the holocaust. These together still wouldnt amount to the murderous crimes commited by these cults. I hate eerything about religion because it is fed by people ignorance and has been dumbing down society for over 2000 years. I refuse to support anyone who supports slavery and genocide as you god does. Use logic to figure out the beauty in this world and live life like you want. You dont need some imaginary tyrant to rule your life. Look at te advances science has brought onto society just in the last 100 years. What has your religion gotten us. Nothing but pain. I dont see any athiest flying planes into buildings, or killing US ambassadors because they offended our beliefs. Stop lieing to yourself and go forth and learn.

In case my opening post didn't make it clear enough, Wallstreetatheist kindly provided a spoiler...
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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11/26/2012 12:23:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 8:04:52 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 11/25/2012 8:00:36 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Enji is an atheist who posted this ironically. Her second point gave it away...

Dude, you spoiled it.

No he didn't, it was obvious, but we can have fun with it anyway.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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11/26/2012 1:19:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 10:53:33 AM, Enji wrote:
At 11/25/2012 6:27:54 PM, medic0506 wrote:

1. It acknowledges God as the one and only creator.
2. It recognizes the beauty and diversity of God's creation as evidence of His power.
3. It recognizes that although God gave us intelligence, there are things about His works that we can't know.
4. It recognizes the Bible as God's word.
5. It believes the part of the Bible that says there will be scoffers. These scoffers even resort to claiming that things can create themselves from nothing, in order to avoid having to admit that God exists.

Ok there ya go, a good start.

How do these show creationism to be true

The thread title said smart, not true. Those are 2 different things. Many atheists and evolutionists are smart, but that doesn't make their beliefs true.

unless you assume the bible to be true, and if assuming the bible is true is the only way to show the truth of creationism, what reasons do we have to believe that the bible is true.

If God could be detected and proved, from testing His creation, then it wouldn't make much sense to say that we need to have faith. Proof of God's existence would undermine the faith based belief systems, would it not?? So ultimately, one must have faith that there is a higher power than man. From that point, it's not difficult to believe the Bible.

Conversely, without God, man is forced to accept as his best explanation a theory which has the entire universe creating itself from a dot smaller than a period on this page. Then biological life also had to create itself from non-life, and work out it's own system where it would evolve from very simple amino acids, into a complex cell, and eventually into a complex organism with emotions and the ability to reason (though not always exhibiting said ability). You ask what reason do we have to believe the Bible...I'd say examining
your own theory should be reason enough.

Do you believe that the evidence that scientists interpret as evidence for evolution actually support creation, or that what we can observe is irrelevant to the truth of creation? Can creation only be known through the Bible - if so, do you still think it should be taught in science class?

If you're going to teach theories as liberally as "it created itself", and pass that off as science, then yes I believe creation should be taught as a competing theory.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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11/26/2012 2:53:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 3:21:55 AM, DaileyScience wrote:
This is completely rediculous. I have faith in my fellow man not some imaginary friend who comforts the weak.

Throughout this post, you sound incredibly weak. How can you be so certain that your fellow man is more real than God?

The bible is man made and behind every religion is a mans sinister plan.

Your statement seems hilariously ignorant. If there were a 'sinister plan' behind the bible, what do you think it is?

Religion makes people do crazy things.

People do crazy things with or without religion; that is, a belief in God; religion can be far more then theistic.

When would you ever expect a perfectly sane person to mutilate his sons reproductive organ because of his religion.

Mutilate? Ths would mean it's now somehow broken, or not as good as it once was; i beg to differ. I'm happy with my package, foreskin looks f*kin wierd. Feel bad for my son though.. didn't circumcise him; can you believe they want $400 for that sh*t?

And if god told me to kill my son id have to say no...f*** you. (Guess who im quoting) religion is evil and people have killed far more people than any terrorist ever will plus the victim of the holocaust.

No you wouldn't, you'd probably just lie to him and say you would. I believe you wouldn't kill your son, but, if you don't know the story.. it was all a test. He didn't have to kill his son.

These together still wouldnt amount to the murderous crimes commited by these cults. I hate eerything about religion because it is fed by people ignorance and has been dumbing down society for over 2000 years.

Oh, so is religion your excuse for being a dumb@ss? Don't dwell on the past buddy, move on.

I refuse to support anyone who supports slavery and genocide as you god does.

Whose God? And what do you even know of slavery?

Use logic to figure out the beauty in this world and live life like you want. You dont need some imaginary tyrant to rule your life.

Instead of all the other BS you just spewed out, why not just say this? (the real reason you hate religion)

Look at te advances science has brought onto society just in the last 100 years.

I'm not sure of anything other then technology and medicine that science has brought to the table. It's awesome, don't get me wrong, but it's a tool.

What has your religion gotten us. Nothing but pain. I dont see any athiest flying planes into buildings, or killing US ambassadors because they offended our beliefs. Stop lieing to yourself and go forth and learn.

I have no idea how my faith could possibly contribute to the pain of another person. Believing that I'm sinful, and in need of a saviour doesn't exactly sound to threatening to me.

I think you need to chill out. If I adjusted a few key things in your entire post, you'd sound like a reglious fanatic.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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11/26/2012 3:23:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 6:27:18 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/25/2012 3:58:12 PM, Wnope wrote:
Lotsa smart people before 1860 believed in Creationism.

Therefore, Creationism is true.

The funny thing is that intelligent people are equally as disposed to believing false and ridiculous things as people with below average intelligence. It simply isn't a matter of reasoning capacity, but persuasions and predispositions established by culture, heredity, and personality.

Bingo. I know idiots who believe in Evolution, and very intelligent people who believe in creationism. Just because creationism is false and evolution is true, doesn't automatically make people who adhere to the incorrect theory stupid.
Malachi30
Posts: 14
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11/26/2012 3:49:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 3:21:55 AM, DaileyScience wrote:
This is completely rediculous. I have faith in my fellow man not some imaginary friend who comforts the weak. The bible is man made and behind every religion is a mans sinister plan. Religion makes people do crazy things. When would you ever expect a perfectly sane person to mutilate his sons reproductive organ because of his religion. And if god told me to kill my son id have to say no...f*** you. (Guess who im quoting) religion is evil and people have killed far more people than any terrorist ever will plus the victim of the holocaust. These together still wouldnt amount to the murderous crimes commited by these cults. I hate eerything about religion because it is fed by people ignorance and has been dumbing down society for over 2000 years. I refuse to support anyone who supports slavery and genocide as you god does. Use logic to figure out the beauty in this world and live life like you want. You dont need some imaginary tyrant to rule your life. Look at te advances science has brought onto society just in the last 100 years. What has your religion gotten us. Nothing but pain. I dont see any athiest flying planes into buildings, or killing US ambassadors because they offended our beliefs. Stop lieing to yourself and go forth and learn.
Do you have any actual facts about the false statistics you just gave about religion. Because I have some about the 3 major atheistic regimes and they cause far more any death or murder than by Christians, and the funny thing is when someone kills in the name of Jesus they are opposing the God of the Bible and the answer is actually MORE BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY like love your neighbors and so on, but when these atheistic regimes kill people they are opposing NOTHING. Look up atheistic regimes like Pol Pot or Stalin you will see statistically these regimes have murdered far more innocent people than any sect(even the false ones) of Christianity. Your statement about religion is false and it has spread only because a bunch of popular people say it so it must be true, but where are your facts.
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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11/26/2012 4:02:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 1:19:59 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 11/26/2012 10:53:33 AM, Enji wrote:
At 11/25/2012 6:27:54 PM, medic0506 wrote:

1. It acknowledges God as the one and only creator.
2. It recognizes the beauty and diversity of God's creation as evidence of His power.
3. It recognizes that although God gave us intelligence, there are things about His works that we can't know.
4. It recognizes the Bible as God's word.
5. It believes the part of the Bible that says there will be scoffers. These scoffers even resort to claiming that things can create themselves from nothing, in order to avoid having to admit that God exists.

Ok there ya go, a good start.

How do these show creationism to be true

The thread title said smart, not true. Those are 2 different things. Many atheists and evolutionists are smart, but that doesn't make their beliefs true.

unless you assume the bible to be true, and if assuming the bible is true is the only way to show the truth of creationism, what reasons do we have to believe that the bible is true.

If God could be detected and proved, from testing His creation, then it wouldn't make much sense to say that we need to have faith. Proof of God's existence would undermine the faith based belief systems, would it not?? So ultimately, one must have faith that there is a higher power than man. From that point, it's not difficult to believe the Bible.

Conversely, without God, man is forced to accept as his best explanation a theory which has the entire universe creating itself from a dot smaller than a period on this page. Then biological life also had to create itself from non-life, and work out it's own system where it would evolve from very simple amino acids, into a complex cell, and eventually into a complex organism with emotions and the ability to reason (though not always exhibiting said ability). You ask what reason do we have to believe the Bible...I'd say examining your own theory should be reason enough.

Do you believe that the evidence that scientists interpret as evidence for evolution actually support creation, or that what we can observe is irrelevant to the truth of creation? Can creation only be known through the Bible - if so, do you still think it should be taught in science class?

If you're going to teach theories as liberally as "it created itself", and pass that off as science, then yes I believe creation should be taught as a competing theory.

Does this come down to the truth of creation can only be known through faith? I have nothing against faith as a way of knowing, but I'm not satisfied with faith being the only way of knowing. If you have faith that god exists and thus you know that creationism is true*, and I have faith that god doesn't exist and I know that evolution is true then how are we to determine who's faith is correct?

* It may be noteworthy that people have faith that god exists and they still believe that evolution is true
naturebeckles
Posts: 73
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11/26/2012 7:15:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
: At 11/26/2012 4:02:02 PM, Enji wrote:
At 11/26/2012 1:19:59 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 11/26/2012 10:53:33 AM, Enji wrote:
At 11/25/2012 6:27:54 PM, medic0506 wrote:

1. It acknowledges God as the one and only creator.
2. It recognizes the beauty and diversity of God's creation as evidence of His power.
3. It recognizes that although God gave us intelligence, there are things about His works that we can't know.
4. It recognizes the Bible as God's word.
5. It believes the part of the Bible that says there will be scoffers. These scoffers even resort to claiming that things can create themselves from nothing, in order to avoid having to admit that God exists.

Ok there ya go, a good start.

How do these show creationism to be true

The thread title said smart, not true. Those are 2 different things. Many atheists and evolutionists are smart, but that doesn't make their beliefs true.

unless you assume the bible to be true, and if assuming the bible is true is the only way to show the truth of creationism, what reasons do we have to believe that the bible is true.

If God could be detected and proved, from testing His creation, then it wouldn't make much sense to say that we need to have faith. Proof of God's existence would undermine the faith based belief systems, would it not?? So ultimately, one must have faith that there is a higher power than man. From that point, it's not difficult to believe the Bible.

Conversely, without God, man is forced to accept as his best explanation a theory which has the entire universe creating itself from a dot smaller than a period on this page. Then biological life also had to create itself from non-life, and work out it's own system where it would evolve from very simple amino acids, into a complex cell, and eventually into a complex organism with emotions and the ability to reason (though not always exhibiting said ability). You ask what reason do we have to believe the Bible...I'd say examining your own theory should be reason enough.

Do you believe that the evidence that scientists interpret as evidence for evolution actually support creation, or that what we can observe is irrelevant to the truth of creation? Can creation only be known through the Bible - if so, do you still think it should be taught in science class?

If you're going to teach theories as liberally as "it created itself", and pass that off as science, then yes I believe creation should be taught as a competing theory.

Does this come down to the truth of creation can only be known through faith? I have nothing against faith as a way of knowing, but I'm not satisfied with faith being the only way of knowing. If you have faith that god exists and thus you know that creationism is true*, and I have faith that god doesn't exist and I know that evolution is true then how are we to determine who's faith is correct?

* It may be noteworthy that people have faith that god exists and they still believe that evolution is true


I'm one of those people.
"Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own." Bruce Lee
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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11/26/2012 9:22:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 4:02:02 PM, Enji wrote:
At 11/26/2012 1:19:59 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 11/26/2012 10:53:33 AM, Enji wrote:
At 11/25/2012 6:27:54 PM, medic0506 wrote:

1. It acknowledges God as the one and only creator.
2. It recognizes the beauty and diversity of God's creation as evidence of His power.
3. It recognizes that although God gave us intelligence, there are things about His works that we can't know.
4. It recognizes the Bible as God's word.
5. It believes the part of the Bible that says there will be scoffers. These scoffers even resort to claiming that things can create themselves from nothing, in order to avoid having to admit that God exists.

Ok there ya go, a good start.

How do these show creationism to be true

The thread title said smart, not true. Those are 2 different things. Many atheists and evolutionists are smart, but that doesn't make their beliefs true.

unless you assume the bible to be true, and if assuming the bible is true is the only way to show the truth of creationism, what reasons do we have to believe that the bible is true.

If God could be detected and proved, from testing His creation, then it wouldn't make much sense to say that we need to have faith. Proof of God's existence would undermine the faith based belief systems, would it not?? So ultimately, one must have faith that there is a higher power than man. From that point, it's not difficult to believe the Bible.

Conversely, without God, man is forced to accept as his best explanation a theory which has the entire universe creating itself from a dot smaller than a period on this page. Then biological life also had to create itself from non-life, and work out it's own system where it would evolve from very simple amino acids, into a complex cell, and eventually into a complex organism with emotions and the ability to reason (though not always exhibiting said ability). You ask what reason do we have to believe the Bible...I'd say examining your own theory should be reason enough.

Do you believe that the evidence that scientists interpret as evidence for evolution actually support creation, or that what we can observe is irrelevant to the truth of creation? Can creation only be known through the Bible - if so, do you still think it should be taught in science class?

If you're going to teach theories as liberally as "it created itself", and pass that off as science, then yes I believe creation should be taught as a competing theory.

Does this come down to the truth of creation can only be known through faith? I have nothing against faith as a way of knowing, but I'm not satisfied with faith being the only way of knowing. If you have faith that god exists and thus you know that creationism is true*, and I have faith that god doesn't exist and I know that evolution is true then how are we to determine who's faith is correct?

I certainly wouldn't go with the side that eventually claims that everything created itself as it's best answer.

* It may be noteworthy that people have faith that god exists and they still believe that evolution is true

Well I'll just say that Jesus verified the creation story found in Genesis, and leave it at that.
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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11/26/2012 9:35:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 9:22:58 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 11/26/2012 4:02:02 PM, Enji wrote:
At 11/26/2012 1:19:59 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 11/26/2012 10:53:33 AM, Enji wrote:
At 11/25/2012 6:27:54 PM, medic0506 wrote:

1. It acknowledges God as the one and only creator.
2. It recognizes the beauty and diversity of God's creation as evidence of His power.
3. It recognizes that although God gave us intelligence, there are things about His works that we can't know.
4. It recognizes the Bible as God's word.
5. It believes the part of the Bible that says there will be scoffers. These scoffers even resort to claiming that things can create themselves from nothing, in order to avoid having to admit that God exists.

Ok there ya go, a good start.

How do these show creationism to be true

The thread title said smart, not true. Those are 2 different things. Many atheists and evolutionists are smart, but that doesn't make their beliefs true.

unless you assume the bible to be true, and if assuming the bible is true is the only way to show the truth of creationism, what reasons do we have to believe that the bible is true.

If God could be detected and proved, from testing His creation, then it wouldn't make much sense to say that we need to have faith. Proof of God's existence would undermine the faith based belief systems, would it not?? So ultimately, one must have faith that there is a higher power than man. From that point, it's not difficult to believe the Bible.

Conversely, without God, man is forced to accept as his best explanation a theory which has the entire universe creating itself from a dot smaller than a period on this page. Then biological life also had to create itself from non-life, and work out it's own system where it would evolve from very simple amino acids, into a complex cell, and eventually into a complex organism with emotions and the ability to reason (though not always exhibiting said ability). You ask what reason do we have to believe the Bible...I'd say examining your own theory should be reason enough.

Do you believe that the evidence that scientists interpret as evidence for evolution actually support creation, or that what we can observe is irrelevant to the truth of creation? Can creation only be known through the Bible - if so, do you still think it should be taught in science class?

If you're going to teach theories as liberally as "it created itself", and pass that off as science, then yes I believe creation should be taught as a competing theory.

Does this come down to the truth of creation can only be known through faith? I have nothing against faith as a way of knowing, but I'm not satisfied with faith being the only way of knowing. If you have faith that god exists and thus you know that creationism is true*, and I have faith that god doesn't exist and I know that evolution is true then how are we to determine who's faith is correct?

I certainly wouldn't go with the side that eventually claims that everything created itself as it's best answer.

I certainly wouldn't go with the side that claims that a mystery magic man created everything but made it appear as something else to confuse people as it's best answer.

(though neither side claims either of those things except in strawmen created by the other side)

* It may be noteworthy that people have faith that god exists and they still believe that evolution is true

Well I'll just say that Jesus verified the creation story found in Genesis, and leave it at that.

AlwaysMoreThanYou would argue that Mark 10:6 is not an endorsement of a literal interpretation of Genesis, however he'd probably be better equipped to address that. http://debate.org...
DaileyScience
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11/26/2012 9:48:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 3:49:36 PM, Malachi30 wrote:
At 11/26/2012 3:21:55 AM, DaileyScience wrote:
This is completely rediculous. I have faith in my fellow man not some imaginary friend who comforts the weak. The bible is man made and behind every religion is a mans sinister plan. Religion makes people do crazy things. When would you ever expect a perfectly sane person to mutilate his sons reproductive organ because of his religion. And if god told me to kill my son id have to say no...f*** you. (Guess who im quoting) religion is evil and people have killed far more people than any terrorist ever will plus the victim of the holocaust. These together still wouldnt amount to the murderous crimes commited by these cults. I hate eerything about religion because it is fed by people ignorance and has been dumbing down society for over 2000 years. I refuse to support anyone who supports slavery and genocide as you god does. Use logic to figure out the beauty in this world and live life like you want. You dont need some imaginary tyrant to rule your life. Look at te advances science has brought onto society just in the last 100 years. What has your religion gotten us. Nothing but pain. I dont see any athiest flying planes into buildings, or killing US ambassadors because they offended our beliefs. Stop lieing to yourself and go forth and learn.
Do you have any actual facts about the false statistics you just gave about religion. Because I have some about the 3 major atheistic regimes and they cause far more any death or murder than by Christians, and the funny thing is when someone kills in the name of Jesus they are opposing the God of the Bible and the answer is actually MORE BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY like love your neighbors and so on, but when these atheistic regimes kill people they are opposing NOTHING. Look up atheistic regimes like Pol Pot or Stalin you will see statistically these regimes have murdered far more innocent people than any sect(even the false ones) of Christianity. Your statement about religion is false and it has spread only because a bunch of popular people say it so it must be true, but where are your facts.

But its not in the name of atheism idiot
DaileyScience
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11/26/2012 10:00:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 2:53:17 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 11/26/2012 3:21:55 AM, DaileyScience wrote:
This is completely rediculous. I have faith in my fellow man not some imaginary friend who comforts the weak.

Throughout this post, you sound incredibly weak. How can you be so certain that your fellow man is more real than God?


The bible is man made and behind every religion is a mans sinister plan.

Your statement seems hilariously ignorant. If there were a 'sinister plan' behind the bible, what do you think it is?

Religion makes people do crazy things.

People do crazy things with or without religion; that is, a belief in God; religion can be far more then theistic.

When would you ever expect a perfectly sane person to mutilate his sons reproductive organ because of his religion.

Mutilate? Ths would mean it's now somehow broken, or not as good as it once was; i beg to differ. I'm happy with my package, foreskin looks f*kin wierd. Feel bad for my son though.. didn't circumcise him; can you believe they want $400 for that sh*t?

And if god told me to kill my son id have to say no...f*** you. (Guess who im quoting) religion is evil and people have killed far more people than any terrorist ever will plus the victim of the holocaust.

No you wouldn't, you'd probably just lie to him and say you would. I believe you wouldn't kill your son, but, if you don't know the story.. it was all a test. He didn't have to kill his son.

These together still wouldnt amount to the murderous crimes commited by these cults. I hate eerything about religion because it is fed by people ignorance and has been dumbing down society for over 2000 years.

Oh, so is religion your excuse for being a dumb@ss? Don't dwell on the past buddy, move on.

I refuse to support anyone who supports slavery and genocide as you god does.

Whose God? And what do you even know of slavery?

Use logic to figure out the beauty in this world and live life like you want. You dont need some imaginary tyrant to rule your life.

Instead of all the other BS you just spewed out, why not just say this? (the real reason you hate religion)

Look at te advances science has brought onto society just in the last 100 years.

I'm not sure of anything other then technology and medicine that science has brought to the table. It's awesome, don't get me wrong, but it's a tool.

What has your religion gotten us. Nothing but pain. I dont see any athiest flying planes into buildings, or killing US ambassadors because they offended our beliefs. Stop lieing to yourself and go forth and learn.

I have no idea how my faith could possibly contribute to the pain of another person. Believing that I'm sinful, and in need of a saviour doesn't exactly sound to threatening to me.

I think you need to chill out. If I adjusted a few key things in your entire post, you'd sound like a reglious fanatic.

I really hope you are joking with your comments. How can i have more faith in my fellow man than god. Well for one my girlfriend is sitting on my couch and im pretty sure shes real because i can see her and so can all the people i introduce her to. You sound like a real um...well i dont want to offend you but do you have any mental disabilities. Sorry for asking but i dont want to waste my time.
DaileyScience
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11/26/2012 10:06:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 9:49:52 PM, Enji wrote:
DaileyScience, Could you bring this "Religion is EVIL!" discussion elsewhere? Thanks.

But they go so well together without evil you dont have the old testament.
Without the old testament, the crusades may have not happened and there wouldnt be a new testament to make religion look good and show the ignorance of the people of that time. So no, religion is evil because we can be "good" without it. All the things it says that are good are just common sense. Unlike the bad things like "strike your neighbor down if he works on the sabbath". So if your friend works this Sunday make sure you kill him in the name of God.
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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11/26/2012 10:26:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 9:48:29 PM, DaileyScience wrote:
At 11/26/2012 3:49:36 PM, Malachi30 wrote:
At 11/26/2012 3:21:55 AM, DaileyScience wrote:
This is completely ridiculous. I have faith in my fellow man not some imaginary friend who comforts the weak.

What's wrong with comfort exactly? Even if god is not real, people believe in god sometimes because it helps them psychologically. I do not see anything wrong with that.

The bible is man made and behind every religion is a mans sinister plan. Religion makes people do crazy things.

No. People make people do crazy things. Religion is simply a collection of beliefs. It is how a person sees those beliefs which causes their actions.

When would you ever expect a perfectly sane person to mutilate his sons reproductive organ because of his religion.

You do realize that circumcision was done because there were certain benefits then. Now it is not so necessary. It is simply tradition.

And if god told me to kill my son id have to say no...f*** you. (Guess who I'm quoting)

I thought you did not believe in god. Anyway, it was a test of faith. Basically, god will test people in many ways. Some you will be difficult, other's not so difficult. But, in the end, it is good.

religion is evil and people have killed far more people than any terrorist ever will plus the victim of the holocaust.

So people kill people? Thanks. You still have not proven religions are intrinsically evil. Just those who misconstrue what the religion teaches. I mean the New Testament teaches love, not hate. For some reason, people can still find biblical justification to hate despite the fact the bible teaches them not to. Same goes for Islam. Islam is not a war-hungry religion like people think.

Do you think Jainism is evil? Buddhism?

These together still wouldn't amount to the murderous crimes committed by these cults. I hate everything about religion because it is fed by people ignorance and has been dumbing down society for over 2000 years.

There are some very smart people who are religious. Generalizing all religious people as idiots seems kind of arrogant don't you think? How exactly has it been dumbing our society down? I mean look you may not like it, but religions are not the simplistic thing you see them as. There are rather complicated themes to religions. It does require some thought and contemplation to understand.

Let me ask you this, was Isaac Newton an idiot? How about William of Ockham? Or Copernicus? Was Galileo an idiot? Louis Pasteur? Max Planck? Werner Heisenberg?

I refuse to support anyone who supports slavery and genocide as you god does.

No one is making you support anyone. But, there are many conceptions on god. Please be more specific.

Use logic to figure out the beauty in this world and live life like you want.

No one forces you to do anything (or rather they should not). Who are you to force someone to do what you think is best?

You don't need some imaginary tyrant to rule your life.

What you call a tyrant, others call a loving deity. But, whatever you want to think, think.

Look at the advances science has brought onto society just in the last 100 years.

science=/=atheism. Many, many scientists are in fact theists. The father of Quantum Mechanics was a Lutheran.

What has your religion gotten us. Nothing but pain.

And some very influential scientists.

I don't see any atheist flying planes into buildings, or killing US ambassadors because they offended our beliefs.

People who misinterpret what their religion teaches and go out to kill people in the name of it are few and far between.

Stop lying to yourself and go forth and learn.
Do you have any actual facts about the false statistics you just gave about religion. Because I have some about the 3 major atheistic regimes and they cause far more any death or murder than by Christians, and the funny thing is when someone kills in the name of Jesus they are opposing the God of the Bible and the answer is actually MORE BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY like love your neighbors and so on, but when these atheistic regimes kill people they are opposing NOTHING. Look up atheistic regimes like Pol Pot or Stalin you will see statistically these regimes have murdered far more innocent people than any sect(even the false ones) of Christianity. Your statement about religion is false and it has spread only because a bunch of popular people say it so it must be true, but where are your facts.



But its not in the name of atheism idiot

I think the point he was trying to make is that atheistic regimes have caused more death then theistic regimes. So how exactly is your objection relevant?

Furthermore, you completely misunderstand basic theology. If you want to argue against something, you should learn about it. Come back later when you actually know something.