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Faith vs. Belief

JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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10/11/2009 6:47:31 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
First, let's start with a couple dictionary definitions...

Belief
- something believed; an opinion or conviction
- confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof
- confidence; faith; trust
- a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith

Faith
- confidence or trust in a person or thing
- belief that is not based on proof
- belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion
- belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit

Now, these are a smattering of the available dictionary definitions, but they illustrate one thing - namely that there isn't really much consensus on the referents of these two concepts. I'd like to put forth the following distinction:

A belief must in principle be verifiable as true or false. This allows for us to have false beliefs. Belief describes the world as it is, or as it might be. Faith, on the other hand, describes the world as we desire it to be. Examples:

Someone believes that there is a computer in the room next door. They go check, and can't find any evidence of one. Therefore, they had a false belief.

Someone has faith that there is a computer in the room next door. They go check and can't find any evidence of one. But we don't say they had false faith... maybe that their faith was misplaced, but consider:

I believe there is a computer next door. No computer = false belief.
I wish there were a computer next door. No computer = false wish? I don't think so...

So this brings me to my main point. If theists want to say they believe in God, they automatically open themselves to the criticism of God necessarily being verifiable. If they hold that God isn't verifiable, then they can only have faith.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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10/11/2009 8:10:28 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Belief requires a reason. Faith does not.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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10/11/2009 8:24:28 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/11/2009 8:10:28 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Belief requires a reason. Faith does not.

Not necessarily. Belief can either be rationalized or not. If not rationalized, then faith.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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10/11/2009 10:50:09 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/11/2009 8:24:28 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 10/11/2009 8:10:28 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Belief requires a reason. Faith does not.

Not necessarily. Belief can either be rationalized or not. If not rationalized, then faith.

Agreed. Belief is your agreement with an internal statement. I believe rain comes from clouds is my agreement with the statement "rain comes from clouds" - knowledge would be my awareness of a fact of reality, the belief statement I believe rain comes from clouds is based upon my awareness of this fact of reality. Faith would not have a knowledge step. Knowledge results in true beliefs, they are themselves not a source of knowledge.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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10/12/2009 6:55:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/11/2009 8:10:28 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Belief requires a reason. Faith does not.

Isn't belief the reason for faith?

Q: Why do you have faith in Jesus?
A: Because I believe in Jesus...
President of DDO
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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10/12/2009 6:59:40 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/12/2009 6:55:02 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 10/11/2009 8:10:28 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Belief requires a reason. Faith does not.

Isn't belief the reason for faith?

Q: Why do you have faith in Jesus?
A: Because I believe in Jesus...

CONT...

Ok, next question:

Q: Why do you believe in Jesus despite evidence to the contrary?
A: It's just faith.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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10/12/2009 7:02:06 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/12/2009 6:59:40 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 10/12/2009 6:55:02 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 10/11/2009 8:10:28 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Belief requires a reason. Faith does not.

Isn't belief the reason for faith?

Q: Why do you have faith in Jesus?
A: Because I believe in Jesus...

CONT...

Ok, next question:

Q: Why do you believe in Jesus despite evidence to the contrary?
A: It's just faith.

On the contrary, it's more like people believe that Jesus exists and is divine; in terms of the rebuttal that he doesn't/isn't when people throw out how believing in him is bad logic, believers respond that they have faith that he IS that way as is described despite the evidence or rather lack thereof. You have to believe in the individual before you can have faith in the individual, no?
President of DDO
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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10/13/2009 8:27:57 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/13/2009 12:19:59 AM, comoncents wrote:
You can niether see, nor prove, faith. Yet, it certainly exists and often provides strength. Who am I to say?

Lol... okay? You can't see or prove a belief, either.
President of DDO
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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10/13/2009 8:28:56 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/13/2009 8:27:57 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 10/13/2009 12:19:59 AM, comoncents wrote:
You can niether see, nor prove, faith. Yet, it certainly exists and often provides strength. Who am I to say?

Lol... okay? You can't see or prove a belief, either.

I was pretty drunk when i wrote it... i don't know
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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10/13/2009 10:46:17 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/11/2009 8:24:28 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 10/11/2009 8:10:28 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Belief requires a reason. Faith does not.

Not necessarily. Belief can either be rationalized or not. If not rationalized, then faith.

I guess I used the wrong terminology. I think we have the same "feel" though.

"I believe something" is usually connected to other trains of thought. Chalking something up to faith is usually a dead-end street, yes o.o?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
aboqe
Posts: 1
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10/16/2009 1:07:46 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/11/2009 8:24:28 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 10/11/2009 8:10:28 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Belief requires a reason. Faith does not.

Not necessarily. Belief can either be rationalized or not. If not rationalized, then faith.

I would have to agree with W on this matter. A belief is something that can be proven in either direction, whereas faith is indeterminate.