Total Posts:211|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

A non-muslim woman wants to know

Fatihah
Posts: 7,715
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/3/2012 4:04:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
A non-muslim woman would like to hear some feedback from the muslims, particularly muslim women, on the following question:

Why is it that a muslim woman cannot marry outside her religion but a muslim man can?
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/3/2012 4:27:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Because Muslim men can go outside the kitchen and meet non-Muslims.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,559
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2012 12:55:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/3/2012 4:04:40 PM, Fatihah wrote:
A non-muslim woman would like to hear some feedback from the muslims, particularly muslim women, on the following question:

Why is it that a muslim woman cannot marry outside her religion but a muslim man can?

Because Islam subjugates women and always has.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2012 12:57:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 12:55:10 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
Because Islam subjugates women and always has.
Ma'am. Would you be kind and share the irresistible evidence? Thank you very much.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2012 2:07:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/3/2012 4:27:08 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
Because Muslim men can go outside the kitchen and meet non-Muslims.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2012 2:08:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 12:57:27 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/4/2012 12:55:10 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
Because Islam subjugates women and always has.
Ma'am. Would you be kind and share the irresistible evidence? Thank you very much.

In precedence, Islam has always subjugated women. Whether this subjugation is justified (like the subjugation of children, within reason, to their parents, or children to their teachers) is debatable, but subjugation undoubtedly occurred by muslims to a large extent. That's not an attack on a religion, that's just how the general swathe of people interpret and apply the text.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
iamnotwhoiam
Posts: 171
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2012 2:17:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them." Quran 4:34
Fatihah
Posts: 7,715
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2012 3:43:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I've noticed some of the answers mentioned thus, such as the subjugation of women, is completely false, which is why every person that stated it couldn't support it with evidence. However, the purpose of the thread was to provide a non-muslim co-worker of mine with an answer from other muslims, because she wanted to hear other views besides mine. So if any muslims on the forum have an answer to the OP, it is much appreciated.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 1:49:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 2:08:58 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
In precedence, Islam has always subjugated women. Whether this subjugation is justified (like the subjugation of children, within reason, to their parents, or children to their teachers) is debatable, but subjugation undoubtedly occurred by muslims to a large extent. That's not an attack on a religion, that's just how the general swathe of people interpret and apply the text.
Muslims have liberated women and promoted their rights for many centuries. When Islam arose, women had rights that were considered nonexistent. Islam attempted to correct this. Sure, Muslims often fail at following Islam, but that is not the fault of the religion. I want Mr. Dirty to explain what he said. About the religion, not Muslims. Now.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 1:50:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 2:17:19 PM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them." Quran 4:34
Great, thanks for sharing! I should have been aware of the fact that we should interpret the Quran by reading one verse in a language that is 13-14 centuries ahead in development over the actual language of the Quran! No need to read the Arabic wording, context of the verse, whatever else.

Are you a scholar by now? You should be.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 1:56:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://debate.org...

This is a full list of Muslim women on this site. I've never heard of any of them and none of them have been on in the last week.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Fatihah
Posts: 7,715
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 5:05:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 2:17:19 PM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them." Quran 4:34

As for hitting the wife, verse 34 does allow hitting the wife as a disciplinary act by the husband if she disobeys the protection provided by the husband (such as allowing his enemies in the home, using the money he provides to financially stabilize the family for her own personal gain, etc.,) yet as verse 19 demonstrates, women are to be treated with kindness. Thus the hit should not be abusive or painful. The sunnah of the prophet states that when asked of what force to beat a women, the prophet displays the bristles of a toothbrush, demonstrating how light the hit must be. The prophet also forbids hitting women in the face or leaving a mark. In short, the hitting is very light, thus it is not unjust, as it leaves no marks or causes pain. With that said, the usual objection by non-Muslims is that it's still wrong because no one likes to be hit. To that I say then, that you should help to free every prisoner from jail. Why? Because they don't like it. Anyone can see the absurdity. It's a punishment. It's not supposed to be liked. Once again, Islam is still established as a just religion.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 6:54:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Me Composer the ongoing successful Cult buster: Fatihah belongs to a SECT of Islam, and even the Qu'ran rejects ALL Sects!

Fatihah is of a typical patriarchal bullying fraud, belonging to a fraudulent Sect rejected by their own Allah! LOL!

My Posts always contain 100% facts!

Here's one I prepared earlier - There are 4 Sects in Islam!

ALL 4 Sects are condemned by the Qu'ran itself -

006.159
YUSUFALI: As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.
PICKTHAL: Lo! As for those who sunder their religion and become schismatics, no concern at all hast thou with them. Their case will go to Allah, Who then will tell them what they used to do.
SHAKIR: Surely they who divided their religion into parts and became sects, you have no concern with them; their affair is only with Allah, then He will inform them of what they did.

Hence Fatiha's opinions are also those of an Allah reject!

Your mentor & personal successful literal Saviour, moi!

Me Composer the ongoing successful & vindicated Cult buster!
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 6:57:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/3/2012 4:04:40 PM, Fatihah wrote:
A non-muslim woman would like to hear some feedback from the muslims, particularly muslim women, on the following question:

Why is it that a muslim woman cannot marry outside her religion but a muslim man can?

Bring her here and I will teach her the Truth, instead of her being misled further by patriarchal bullying Allah rejects such as yourself!

Your mentor & personal successful literal Saviour, moi!

Me Composer the ongoing successful & vindicated Cult buster!
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,559
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 11:07:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/5/2012 1:49:05 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/4/2012 2:08:58 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
In precedence, Islam has always subjugated women. Whether this subjugation is justified (like the subjugation of children, within reason, to their parents, or children to their teachers) is debatable, but subjugation undoubtedly occurred by muslims to a large extent. That's not an attack on a religion, that's just how the general swathe of people interpret and apply the text.
Muslims have liberated women and promoted their rights for many centuries. When Islam arose, women had rights that were considered nonexistent. Islam attempted to correct this. Sure, Muslims often fail at following Islam, but that is not the fault of the religion. I want Mr. Dirty to explain what he said. About the religion, not Muslims. Now.

I suspect you do not live in the midst of an established Muslim community then else you'd be well aware of reality.

In the UK there is a growing use of Sharia among Muslims as the means to resolve family disputes. This is done by hijacking the UK's arbitration act and results in decisions by a Sharia "judge" that are a) Not subject to appeal and b) Enforceable by the UK's own courts.

Many women are coerced to agree to use Sharia because they speak little or no English and have little or no knowledge of their legal rights in Britain, our laws are there to protect the righst of woem yet men use Sharia to undermine this.

Under such a system men have greater powers to end a marriage than women do, men dominate the "legal" adminstration, men are traditionally granted custody over children (in divorces etc) far more than women.

Islamic inheritance law grants men twice as much as women when a father dies.

There is a great deal that you seem unaware of and with the web at your disposal there really is no excuce, eg:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

To assert that Islam furthers the rights of Women is disgusting and something you should be ashamed of.

Harry.
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,559
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 11:19:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 2:08:58 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 12/4/2012 12:57:27 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/4/2012 12:55:10 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
Because Islam subjugates women and always has.
Ma'am. Would you be kind and share the irresistible evidence? Thank you very much.

In precedence, Islam has always subjugated women. Whether this subjugation is justified (like the subjugation of children, within reason, to their parents, or children to their teachers) is debatable, but subjugation undoubtedly occurred by muslims to a large extent. That's not an attack on a religion, that's just how the general swathe of people interpret and apply the text.

There is nothing wrong with speaking out against injustices, Islam is a political and social ideology and it has many negative traits that most people know nothing about.

I've lived in cities in Britain that have seen the growth of large Muslim communities and the effects on the local indigenous people is largely negative, for example there are regular stories of Muslim bus drivers refusing to allow blind passengers to board the bus if they have a guide dog - this is illegal and immoral to non Muslims.

The degree to which Pakistanis inbreed with first and second cousins is very high and leads to a shocking statistic: 33% of the public health costs for genetically damaged children in Britain is spent on a mere 3% of the population - Pakistaini Muslims.

Islam offers nothing to our Western societies, wherever it grows it make demands for the host society and culture to change, to adapt yet it never adapts. It is intolerant of and threatening to non Muslims, it calls for the death penalty for gays and apostates and I see no difference between criticising Islam and Nazism.

Harry.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 1:12:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I can absolutely DEMOLISH your arguments with attention-to-detail responses, but I'm not sure if you care to read what I write, and attempt to understand it -- so I'll keep it short.

At 12/5/2012 11:07:29 AM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I suspect you do not live in the midst of an established Muslim community then else you'd be well aware of reality.
Uh oh! Strawman -- I don't deny lots of Muslim communities are outrageously barbaric. It's not the religion though, so nice try. Moreover, I DID live for almost 8 years in my homeland Bosnia, in a town with a mosque in almost every street corner -- and I never saw ANY Muslim group justify any of these bad acts you talk about, nor engage in them. They gave talks AGAINST them. And the community is an "established one." Muslim majority, Muslim history, Muslim upbringing, etc. A historically Muslim city, too. Hmm, I know a Muslim community pretty well.

In the UK there is a growing use of Sharia among Muslims as the means to resolve family disputes.
Red herring.

This is done by hijacking the UK's arbitration act and results in decisions by a Sharia "judge" that are a) Not subject to appeal and b) Enforceable by the UK's own courts.
Red herring. Did you go fishing a lot today? That would explain the massive amounts of herrings you show to me.

Many women are coerced to agree to use Sharia because they speak little or no English and have little or no knowledge of their legal rights in Britain, our laws are there to protect the righst of woem yet men use Sharia to undermine this.
So, because those particular women are too STUPID to not administer their own beliefs, we should therefore blame men for convincing them of Sharia?

Under such a system men have greater powers to end a marriage than women do,
False! Islamic Law permits Muslim women to grant themselves the right to divorce if they apply it to the marriage contract, prior to marriage.

men dominate the "legal" adminstration, men are traditionally granted custody over children (in divorces etc) far more than women.
Completely false! Women by DEFAULT have the custody so... Try again.

Islamic inheritance law grants men twice as much as women when a father dies.
Guess why? Here, read my debate on it: http://www.debate.org...

There is a great deal that you seem unaware of and with the web at your disposal there really is no excuce, eg:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

Let me point out one biased quotation. "Islamic law allows men to have up to four wives " but complains he is abusive whenever he returns to her home." Correct, but the wife can forbid the man from acquiring more wives, in the marriage contract. All it requires is a brain. Surely women possess brains.

I'm not discussing with the author of that article, so I can keep this short.

To assert that Islam furthers the rights of Women is disgusting and something you should be ashamed of.
To think that you have any correct information about Islam is far more shameful, Ma'am. Try again, thank you very much.

Harry.
Mirza.
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,559
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 2:14:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/5/2012 1:12:45 PM, Mirza wrote:
I can absolutely DEMOLISH your arguments with attention-to-detail responses, but I'm not sure if you care to read what I write, and attempt to understand it -- so I'll keep it short.

At 12/5/2012 11:07:29 AM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I suspect you do not live in the midst of an established Muslim community then else you'd be well aware of reality.
Uh oh! Strawman -- I don't deny lots of Muslim communities are outrageously barbaric. It's not the religion though, so nice try. Moreover, I DID live for almost 8 years in my homeland Bosnia, in a town with a mosque in almost every street corner -- and I never saw ANY Muslim group justify any of these bad acts you talk about, nor engage in them. They gave talks AGAINST them. And the community is an "established one." Muslim majority, Muslim history, Muslim upbringing, etc. A historically Muslim city, too. Hmm, I know a Muslim community pretty well.

I'm sure you do - but I speak of historically NON-Muslim countries, cities, towns and communities that have been subjected to immigration and growth of a Muslim population. This causes these countries, cities and towns to change - for example Muslims do not drink so local bars close, Muslims insist on Halal meat so traditional butchers close, Muslims do not let young boys and girls dance together wearing leotards as in ballet so ballet schools close, many Muslims inbreed with first and second cousins so local schools and doctors and hospitals become burdened with a large proportion of genetically damaged children and so on and so forth.

I've seen this first hand - the elimination of centuries old traditions and practices and the emergence of alien disgusting practices that show complete disrespect to the host nation - many Muslims despise the western way of life and so seek to change it - therefore Islam offers the people of the UK, US and EU absolutely nothing but the slow erosion of their own culture - should I support that?


In the UK there is a growing use of Sharia among Muslims as the means to resolve family disputes.
Red herring.
It's a true statement.

This is done by hijacking the UK's arbitration act and results in decisions by a Sharia "judge" that are a) Not subject to appeal and b) Enforceable by the UK's own courts.
Red herring. Did you go fishing a lot today? That would explain the massive amounts of herrings you show to me.
But again, it's a true statement and several legal experts in the UK have warned about the growing dangers of this.

Many women are coerced to agree to use Sharia because they speak little or no English and have little or no knowledge of their legal rights in Britain, our laws are there to protect the righst of woem yet men use Sharia to undermine this.
So, because those particular women are too STUPID to not administer their own beliefs, we should therefore blame men for convincing them of Sharia?
Blaming victims is as a means of dismissing what I say is unimpressive Mirza. Coercion - the term I used - is what is used by the strong against the weak. A non-English speaking immigrant woman married to a Muslim man is wholly dependent upon him for survival.

Under such a system men have greater powers to end a marriage than women do,
False! Islamic Law permits Muslim women to grant themselves the right to divorce if they apply it to the marriage contract, prior to marriage.
I'm referring to reality not aspiration:

"Many Sharia law bodies rule on a range of disputes from domestic violence to child residence all of which should be dealt with by UK courts of law. Having observed Sharia law bodies ruling on legal disputes it is all too apparent that they operate within a misogynist and patriarchal framework which is incompatible with UK legislation. For instance, the cost of an Islamic divorce is "400 for a woman compared to "200 for a man at the Islamic Sharia Council in East London; this is an example of blatant gender discrimination which is incompatible with the Equality Act 2010." (emphasis mine).

Source: http://blogs.independent.co.uk...

Anyway you seem to agree that the process is different for mem and women - one set of rules for men another for women - which demonstrates my point about Islam and Sharia being discriminatory.


men dominate the "legal" adminstration, men are traditionally granted custody over children (in divorces etc) far more than women.
Completely false! Women by DEFAULT have the custody so... Try again.

The point is that Sharia and Islam should have precisely ZERO influence over decisions of child custody we have our own laws for that - Muslims who sideline the laws of their host nation in preference for their own primitive patriarchal abusive system are showing disrespect to Britain, its people and its laws.

Islamic inheritance law grants men twice as much as women when a father dies.
Guess why? Here, read my debate on it: http://www.debate.org...

Just tell me "why" please - is there a simple reason other than it serves the interests of Muslim men?

There is a great deal that you seem unaware of and with the web at your disposal there really is no excuce, eg:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

Let me point out one biased quotation. "Islamic law allows men to have up to four wives " but complains he is abusive whenever he returns to her home." Correct, but the wife can forbid the man from acquiring more wives, in the marriage contract. All it requires is a brain. Surely women possess brains.

In the UK, US and EU it is illegal to have more than one wife - and for a woman to have more than one husband - yet many Muslim men still practice this, yet their women cannot - again a clear example of blatant sexual discrimination - by all means live like that in a third world Muslim country but do not advocate it here and expect to go unchallenged Mirza.

I'm not discussing with the author of that article, so I can keep this short.

To assert that Islam furthers the rights of Women is disgusting and something you should be ashamed of.
To think that you have any correct information about Islam is far more shameful, Ma'am. Try again, thank you very much.

I have volumes of information on the true effects of Islam and its growth in the West - the web has no shortage of information on this either.

For example what about the "demands" in the UK made by female Muslim nurses to have their arms covered when treating patients? This is forbidden by science based health rules - yet Muslim nurses made a fuss and insisted the system adapt to suit their "needs" should non-Muslims sit back and allow this kind of thing without protest?

I know vastly more than most on this forum Mirza so rest assured - your defense of a barbaric ideology will not go unchallenged while I am a member.

Harry
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,559
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 2:44:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/5/2012 5:05:37 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/4/2012 2:17:19 PM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them." Quran 4:34

As for hitting the wife, verse 34 does allow hitting the wife as a disciplinary act by the husband if she disobeys the protection provided by the husband (such as allowing his enemies in the home, using the money he provides to financially stabilize the family for her own personal gain, etc.,) yet as verse 19 demonstrates, women are to be treated with kindness. Thus the hit should not be abusive or painful. The sunnah of the prophet states that when asked of what force to beat a women, the prophet displays the bristles of a toothbrush, demonstrating how light the hit must be. The prophet also forbids hitting women in the face or leaving a mark. In short, the hitting is very light, thus it is not unjust, as it leaves no marks or causes pain. With that said, the usual objection by non-Muslims is that it's still wrong because no one likes to be hit. To that I say then, that you should help to free every prisoner from jail. Why? Because they don't like it. Anyone can see the absurdity. It's a punishment. It's not supposed to be liked. Once again, Islam is still established as a just religion.

Right - so Islam advocates violence as a means of "resolving" matrimonial disputes, allowing a man to harm a woman (but not the other way around) - so it does therefore subjugate women - which bit of all this is confusing you?

Harry.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,715
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 6:58:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/5/2012 2:44:30 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:


Right - so Islam advocates violence as a means of "resolving" matrimonial disputes, allowing a man to harm a woman (but not the other way around) - so it does therefore subjugate women - which bit of all this is confusing you?

Harry.

Response: To the contrary, a light tap that leaves nor pain or scars is not violence or subjugation. So which part is confusing to you?
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 7:20:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/5/2012 2:14:52 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I'm sure you do - but I speak of historically NON-Muslim countries, cities, towns and communities that have been subjected to immigration and growth of a Muslim population. This causes these countries, cities and towns to change - for example Muslims do not drink so local bars close, Muslims insist on Halal meat so traditional butchers close, Muslims do not let young boys and girls dance together wearing leotards as in ballet so ballet schools close, many Muslims inbreed with first and second cousins so local schools and doctors and hospitals become burdened with a large proportion of genetically damaged children and so on and so forth.


OMG! They pick and choose who they want to marry, and what they want their kids doing, and what they eat?! Those horrible people!

I've seen this first hand - the elimination of centuries old traditions and practices and the emergence of alien disgusting practices that show complete disrespect to the host nation - many Muslims despise the western way of life and so seek to change it - therefore Islam offers the people of the UK, US and EU absolutely nothing but the slow erosion of their own culture - should I support that?

Majority rules sucker.

It's a true statement.

The fact that some Muslims commit murder is also a true statment. It's still irrelevant, and a: http://en.wikipedia.org...

But again, it's a true statement and several legal experts in the UK have warned about the growing dangers of this.

Look up for answers.^

Blaming victims is as a means of dismissing what I say is unimpressive Mirza. Coercion - the term I used - is what is used by the strong against the weak. A non-English speaking immigrant woman married to a Muslim man is wholly dependent upon him for survival.

Which is her fault......

Anyway you seem to agree that the process is different for mem and women - one set of rules for men another for women - which demonstrates my point about Islam and Sharia being discriminatory.

Just as most actual laws are today. Example: Civil Rights Act.

The point is that Sharia and Islam should have precisely ZERO influence over decisions of child custody we have our own laws for that - Muslims who sideline the laws of their host nation in preference for their own primitive patriarchal abusive system are showing disrespect to Britain, its people and its laws.

Why? Their close to being, what, 50% of the population. The most popular name for boys in Britain is Mohammed. Why should their wants be ignored?

Just tell me "why" please - is there a simple reason other than it serves the interests of Muslim men?

He sorta did.

In the UK, US and EU it is illegal to have more than one wife - and for a woman to have more than one husband - yet many Muslim men still practice this, yet their women cannot - again a clear example of blatant sexual discrimination - by all means live like that in a third world Muslim country but do not advocate it here and expect to go unchallenged Mirza.

Read my point above on why they shouldn't.

I have volumes of information on the true effects of Islam and its growth in the West - the web has no shortage of information on this either.

Cause, the web is known for its reliability. And, we would appreciate you showing the you know, actual Muslim teachings

For example what about the "demands" in the UK made by female Muslim nurses to have their arms covered when treating patients? This is forbidden by science based health rules - yet Muslim nurses made a fuss and insisted the system adapt to suit their "needs" should non-Muslims sit back and allow this kind of thing without protest?

Majority Rule, why not? and, I'm sure people can figure out something for them.

I know vastly more than most on this forum Mirza so rest assured - your defense of a barbaric ideology will not go unchallenged while I am a member.

Yup, shows your knowledge right there, and there.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 7:34:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/5/2012 6:58:02 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/5/2012 2:44:30 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:


Right - so Islam advocates violence as a means of "resolving" matrimonial disputes, allowing a man to harm a woman (but not the other way around) - so it does therefore subjugate women - which bit of all this is confusing you?

Harry.

Response: To the contrary, a light tap that leaves nor pain or scars is not violence or subjugation. So which part is confusing to you?

So speaks the violent, patriarchal wife tapping proponent & confirmed Allah reject! LOL!

Qu'ran 006.159

&

More disgustingly -

Thread: prophet Muhammed in the bible -

At 4/14/2012 6:41:08 AM, Fatihah wrote:

" . . . . The fact that a child at that age can be fed is proof that they can consent, for one has to consent just to be fed. "

What Fatihah states is that a female baby suckling at its mothers breast gives ' consent to being fed ' so that means intercourse with it by a male Moslem is fine because a baby can give consent to intercourse as it did similarly by agreeing/consenting to be fed its Mother's milk?

This is the kind of sicko deviants decent society has to contend with and I am all for having those like Fatihah arrested and jailed for promoting child sex abuse, female child rape & female abuse of all kinds!

IF there are any ex-moslems here that know of Fatihah's personal details, please call 911 immediately and show them Fatihah's comments & Posts!

Your kind disgust me Fatihah, and even your own Allah is disgusted by you & rejects you!

Qu'ran 006:159
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 7:49:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
We also notice Fatihah that you have NOT offered to invite this inquisitive woman here to ask & read for herself?

It doesn't take Rocket Science to know & explain why you choose to mischievously and dishonestly do that!

You sicko Allah reject, Qu'ran 006:159
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2012 8:11:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
These types of disgusting rules are about control and misogyny. They are not restricted to Islam, and are in fact a part of almost every patriarchal religion and culture. The men in these cultures seem to be incapable of attracting women and seem to believe that they somehow have dibs on females of their own culture, so they prevent them from marrying outsiders while simultaneously attempting to marry as many outsiders as possible to deprive other groups of their females. It is completely disgusting. Women are objects to these people.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/6/2012 12:22:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/5/2012 6:58:02 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/5/2012 2:44:30 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:


Right - so Islam advocates violence as a means of "resolving" matrimonial disputes, allowing a man to harm a woman (but not the other way around) - so it does therefore subjugate women - which bit of all this is confusing you?

Harry.

Response: To the contrary, a light tap that leaves nor pain or scars is not violence or subjugation. So which part is confusing to you?

NOW I fully understand the initial source of your insanity!

Your Mother was lightly tapped once too often before she gave birth to you!


Your mentor & personal successful literal Saviour, moi!

Me Composer the ongoing successful & vindicated Cult buster!
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/6/2012 3:58:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Saudi Arabian Men Now Get Text Alerts When Their Women Leave:
http://www.bbc.co.uk...
http://gizmodo.com...
http://mashable.com...
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
Fatihah
Posts: 7,715
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/6/2012 4:32:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/6/2012 12:22:44 AM, Composer wrote:

NOW I fully understand the initial source of your insanity!

Your Mother was lightly tapped once too often before she gave birth to you!


Your mentor & personal successful literal Saviour, moi!

Me Composer the ongoing successful & vindicated Cult buster!

Response: There goes that troll again.
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/6/2012 5:01:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/5/2012 8:11:05 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
These types of disgusting rules are about control and misogyny. They are not restricted to Islam, and are in fact a part of almost every patriarchal religion and culture. The men in these cultures seem to be incapable of attracting women and seem to believe that they somehow have dibs on females of their own culture, so they prevent them from marrying outsiders while simultaneously attempting to marry as many outsiders as possible to deprive other groups of their females. It is completely disgusting. Women are objects to these people.

I agree with Royals reasoning for the differentiation between men & women in Islam.

However I don't agree that the practice is so universal / wide spread:

Intermarriages between Jews and Christians, were first prohibited by the Christian emperor Constantius in 339, under penalty of death ("Codex Theodosianus," xvi. 8, 6; comp. "Codex Justinianus," i. 9, 7), then by the councils of Agdes in 506, of Rheims in Gaul in 630, of Elvira (Gr"tz, "Gesch." iv. 363), of Toledo (l.c. v. 359); and in Hungary by King Ladislaus I. 1077, and Andrew in 1233 (Gr"tz, l.c. 3d ed., iv. 363; v. 45, 52, 59; vii. 27; L. L"w, "Gesammelte Werke," ii. 176).

In Judaism as well it goes both ways: (see Nehemiah 10:30-31 &) http://en.wikipedia.org...

It seems that this differentiation is not found amongst the other religions, so much, as it is found in Islam. http://en.wikipedia.org... .

Getting back to the original question, of the reason for the law, it does seem that royal is correct.
Wikipedia - "Islam generally forbids Muslim women from marrying non-Muslim men. This prohibition serves to preserve and expand the Islamic faith within societies which are patriarchal but multi-faith. It effectively ensures that over many generations, Islam would naturally gain in adherents, relative to neighbouring religions, through its ability to secure the adherence of all offspring from mixed marriages.[22]" http://en.wikipedia.org...

A(nother) possible reason for not intermarrying:
(This does not explain why in Islam men and women are different.)

In 2001, marriages between people of different faiths were THREE TIMES more likely to be divorced than those of the same faith. In a 1993 study, members of two mainline Protestant religions had a 20% chance of being divorced in 5 years; a Catholic and an Evangelical, a 33% chance; a Jew and a Christian, a 40% chance.[24] http://en.wikipedia.org...

I think that is a pretty strong pragmatic reason.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/6/2012 6:11:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/6/2012 5:01:14 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 12/5/2012 8:11:05 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
These types of disgusting rules are about control and misogyny. They are not restricted to Islam, and are in fact a part of almost every patriarchal religion and culture. The men in these cultures seem to be incapable of attracting women and seem to believe that they somehow have dibs on females of their own culture, so they prevent them from marrying outsiders while simultaneously attempting to marry as many outsiders as possible to deprive other groups of their females. It is completely disgusting. Women are objects to these people.

I agree with Royals reasoning for the differentiation between men & women in Islam.

However I don't agree that the practice is so universal / wide spread:

Intermarriages between Jews and Christians, were first prohibited by the Christian emperor Constantius in 339, under penalty of death ("Codex Theodosianus," xvi. 8, 6; comp. "Codex Justinianus," i. 9, 7), then by the councils of Agdes in 506, of Rheims in Gaul in 630, of Elvira (Gr"tz, "Gesch." iv. 363), of Toledo (l.c. v. 359); and in Hungary by King Ladislaus I. 1077, and Andrew in 1233 (Gr"tz, l.c. 3d ed., iv. 363; v. 45, 52, 59; vii. 27; L. L"w, "Gesammelte Werke," ii. 176).

In Judaism as well it goes both ways: (see Nehemiah 10:30-31 &) http://en.wikipedia.org...


It seems that this differentiation is not found amongst the other religions, so much, as it is found in Islam. http://en.wikipedia.org... .

Getting back to the original question, of the reason for the law, it does seem that royal is correct.
Wikipedia - "Islam generally forbids Muslim women from marrying non-Muslim men. This prohibition serves to preserve and expand the Islamic faith within societies which are patriarchal but multi-faith. It effectively ensures that over many generations, Islam would naturally gain in adherents, relative to neighbouring religions, through its ability to secure the adherence of all offspring from mixed marriages.[22]" http://en.wikipedia.org...

A(nother) possible reason for not intermarrying:
(This does not explain why in Islam men and women are different.)

In 2001, marriages between people of different faiths were THREE TIMES more likely to be divorced than those of the same faith. In a 1993 study, members of two mainline Protestant religions had a 20% chance of being divorced in 5 years; a Catholic and an Evangelical, a 33% chance; a Jew and a Christian, a 40% chance.[24] http://en.wikipedia.org...

I think that is a pretty strong pragmatic reason.

Nordic women were not permitted to marry outsiders.

It was taboo for white women to mate with black men but not for white men to mate with black women in the United States.

Marriages between Jewish females and Arab males are considered treason by Israeli Jews. "A group of 35 Jewish men, known as "Fire for Judaism", in the Jerusalem neighborhood of Pisgat Ze'ev started patrolling the neighborhood in an effort to stop Jewish women from dating Arab men. The municipality of Petah Tikva has also announced an initiative to prevent interracial relationships, providing a telephone hotline for friends and family to "inform" on Jewish girls who date Arab men as well as psychologists to provide counselling. The city of Kiryat Gat launched a school programme in schools to warn Jewish girls against dating local Bedouin men.[61][62]"
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/6/2012 6:13:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Muslims also carry out "love jihad". The point of this is to sleep with non-Muslim girls in other societies, take naked photos of them, and then blackmail them into marrying random Muslims. It is a widespread practice in colleges in India.