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Who Cares?

Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/3/2012 11:53:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If you didn't think it mattered, then you probably wouldn't be on a forum answering why it doesn't.

So what are your personal reasons for why the existence of God, or Christ's claims matter?
quarterexchange
Posts: 1,549
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12/3/2012 11:56:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/3/2012 11:53:29 PM, Apeiron wrote:
If you didn't think it mattered, then you probably wouldn't be on a forum answering why it doesn't.

So what are your personal reasons for why the existence of God, or Christ's claims matter?

I'll admit I don't particularly care about religious beliefs so much as a I do about political beliefs. I generally try to avoid getting into religious arguments with other people since I don't get any satisfaction convincing Christians to become skeptics or Agnostics.
I don't discriminate....I hate everybody.
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/4/2012 12:08:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/3/2012 11:56:34 PM, quarterexchange wrote:
At 12/3/2012 11:53:29 PM, Apeiron wrote:
If you didn't think it mattered, then you probably wouldn't be on a forum answering why it doesn't.

So what are your personal reasons for why the existence of God, or Christ's claims matter?

I'll admit I don't particularly care about religious beliefs so much as a I do about political beliefs. I generally try to avoid getting into religious arguments with other people since I don't get any satisfaction convincing Christians to become skeptics or Agnostics.

I see.

Do you think political beliefs don't stem from religious beliefs?
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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12/4/2012 12:49:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Because I want others to see the truth.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/4/2012 12:55:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 12:49:25 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
Because I want others to see the truth.

What can that offer them?
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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12/4/2012 12:57:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 12:55:32 AM, Apeiron wrote:
At 12/4/2012 12:49:25 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
Because I want others to see the truth.

What can that offer them?

Cool stuff like Heaven
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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12/4/2012 12:57:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 12:57:13 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 12/4/2012 12:55:32 AM, Apeiron wrote:
At 12/4/2012 12:49:25 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
Because I want others to see the truth.

What can that offer them?

Cool stuff like Heaven

Don't take this to mean I'm an exclusivist.

I rarely know what I'm talking about.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/4/2012 1:00:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 12:57:32 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 12/4/2012 12:57:13 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 12/4/2012 12:55:32 AM, Apeiron wrote:
At 12/4/2012 12:49:25 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
Because I want others to see the truth.

What can that offer them?

Cool stuff like Heaven

Don't take this to mean I'm an exclusivist.

I rarely know what I'm talking about.

I enjoyed it :-)
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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12/4/2012 7:22:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/3/2012 11:53:29 PM, Apeiron wrote:
If you didn't think it mattered, then you probably wouldn't be on a forum answering why it doesn't.

So what are your personal reasons for why the existence of God, or Christ's claims matter?

The after-life, meaning, finding the truth.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
lannan13
Posts: 23,017
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12/4/2012 7:34:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The afterlife truth, or maybe just comfort knowing that there is possible a better life out there then the horrible life that we are living.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/4/2012 7:40:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 7:22:20 AM, phantom wrote:
At 12/3/2012 11:53:29 PM, Apeiron wrote:
If you didn't think it mattered, then you probably wouldn't be on a forum answering why it doesn't.

So what are your personal reasons for why the existence of God, or Christ's claims matter?

The after-life, meaning, finding the truth.

What are your thoughts then on Christ claiming to be the truth and that no one gets an afterlife apart from him?

Also, do you think life has more than subjective meaning?
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/4/2012 7:41:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 7:34:34 AM, lannan13 wrote:
The afterlife truth, or maybe just comfort knowing that there is possible a better life out there then the horrible life that we are living.

Can we call this existential comfort?
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/4/2012 7:45:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 7:34:34 AM, lannan13 wrote:
The afterlife truth, or maybe just comfort knowing that there is possible a better life out there then the horrible life that we are living.

Also, your picture is fantastic.
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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12/4/2012 8:26:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm here to ask people their views because I don't understand why all the controversy that revolves around religion exists.
From what I understand, anyone who believes in God, believes God has a plan, and that Gods plan is meant to happen no matter what humanity wants.
If people truly believe this, I don't understand why they argue against a plan that is inevitably going to be fulfilled regardless of what religion other people follow.
Also, I believe arguing for or against a religion because we need to "spread the word" is obsolete because most religions are published online... therefore the word is spread, and now its up to personal logic.
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/4/2012 8:40:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 8:26:30 AM, pozessed wrote:
I'm here to ask people their views because I don't understand why all the controversy that revolves around religion exists.
From what I understand, anyone who believes in God, believes God has a plan, and that Gods plan is meant to happen no matter what humanity wants.
If people truly believe this, I don't understand why they argue against a plan that is inevitably going to be fulfilled regardless of what religion other people follow.
Also, I believe arguing for or against a religion because we need to "spread the word" is obsolete because most religions are published online... therefore the word is spread, and now its up to personal logic.

Interesting take but I'm confused, are you saying that people who believe in God's plan will argue against it?
YYW
Posts: 36,240
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12/4/2012 9:03:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/3/2012 11:53:29 PM, Apeiron wrote:
If you didn't think it mattered, then you probably wouldn't be on a forum answering why it doesn't.

So what are your personal reasons for why the existence of God, or Christ's claims matter?

You can't reason your way to belief in God. You can try (like Aquinas, St. Augustine, etc.) but ultimately you begin in that exercise assuming provable the thing you are trying to prove. The long and short of it is this: faith is the means to belief in God. Reason is the means to knowledge of things which can be seen. Oh, and I realize this is a middle finger to Kant. C'est la vie.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/4/2012 9:05:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 7:40:34 AM, Apeiron wrote:
At 12/4/2012 7:22:20 AM, phantom wrote:
At 12/3/2012 11:53:29 PM, Apeiron wrote:
If you didn't think it mattered, then you probably wouldn't be on a forum answering why it doesn't.

So what are your personal reasons for why the existence of God, or Christ's claims matter?

The after-life, meaning, finding the truth.

What are your thoughts then on Christ claiming to be the truth and that no one gets an afterlife apart from him?


Also, do you think life has more than subjective meaning?

I sure do. In fact, I think the common notion of one giving oneself own Existential meaning is probably incoherent. Or at least a highly doubtful notion.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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12/4/2012 9:08:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 8:40:24 AM, Apeiron wrote:
At 12/4/2012 8:26:30 AM, pozessed wrote:
I'm here to ask people their views because I don't understand why all the controversy that revolves around religion exists.
From what I understand, anyone who believes in God, believes God has a plan, and that Gods plan is meant to happen no matter what humanity wants.
If people truly believe this, I don't understand why they argue against a plan that is inevitably going to be fulfilled regardless of what religion other people follow.
Also, I believe arguing for or against a religion because we need to "spread the word" is obsolete because most religions are published online... therefore the word is spread, and now its up to personal logic.

Interesting take but I'm confused, are you saying that people who believe in God's plan will argue against it?

I'm saying most people who believe in God believe he knows enough of the future to plan for his own desires.
I'm saying anyone who is arguing their social religion, instead of searching to strengthen their personal faith is being counterproductive in this day and age.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/4/2012 9:12:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 9:05:39 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/4/2012 7:40:34 AM, Apeiron wrote:
At 12/4/2012 7:22:20 AM, phantom wrote:
At 12/3/2012 11:53:29 PM, Apeiron wrote:
If you didn't think it mattered, then you probably wouldn't be on a forum answering why it doesn't.

So what are your personal reasons for why the existence of God, or Christ's claims matter?

The after-life, meaning, finding the truth.

What are your thoughts then on Christ claiming to be the truth and that no one gets an afterlife apart from him?



Also, do you think life has more than subjective meaning?


I sure do. In fact, I think the common notion of one giving oneself own Existential meaning is probably incoherent. Or at least a highly doubtful notion.

Wrt humans, i mean.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/4/2012 9:13:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 9:05:39 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/4/2012 7:40:34 AM, Apeiron wrote:
At 12/4/2012 7:22:20 AM, phantom wrote:
At 12/3/2012 11:53:29 PM, Apeiron wrote:
If you didn't think it mattered, then you probably wouldn't be on a forum answering why it doesn't.

So what are your personal reasons for why the existence of God, or Christ's claims matter?

The after-life, meaning, finding the truth.

What are your thoughts then on Christ claiming to be the truth and that no one gets an afterlife apart from him?





Also, do you think life has more than subjective meaning?

I sure do. In fact, I think the common notion of one giving oneself own Existential meaning is probably incoherent. Or at least a highly doubtful notion.

Subjective meaning does seem incoherent now that you mention it, I guess it's how you define meaning. ( But then "what do you mean by meaning" ... hrmm)
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/4/2012 9:13:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 9:09:31 AM, pozessed wrote:
Sorry I meant to edit that, I hope it didn't come across as pompous or anything.

Not at all :-)
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/4/2012 9:17:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 9:08:12 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 12/4/2012 8:40:24 AM, Apeiron wrote:
At 12/4/2012 8:26:30 AM, pozessed wrote:
I'm here to ask people their views because I don't understand why all the controversy that revolves around religion exists.
From what I understand, anyone who believes in God, believes God has a plan, and that Gods plan is meant to happen no matter what humanity wants.
If people truly believe this, I don't understand why they argue against a plan that is inevitably going to be fulfilled regardless of what religion other people follow.
Also, I believe arguing for or against a religion because we need to "spread the word" is obsolete because most religions are published online... therefore the word is spread, and now its up to personal logic.

Interesting take but I'm confused, are you saying that people who believe in God's plan will argue against it?

I'm saying most people who believe in God believe he knows enough of the future to plan for his own desires.
I'm saying anyone who is arguing their social religion, instead of searching to strengthen their personal faith is being counterproductive in this day and age.

I think I see your point. Although I've noticed some apologists' faith seems more strenghtned as a result of intellectually engaging their faith, which of course entails bouncing their worldview of of other's.

But you're right sometimes folks put too much emphasis on the external evidence that they miss out on the internal relationship.
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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12/4/2012 9:20:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 9:17:49 AM, Apeiron wrote:
sometimes folks put too much emphasis on the external evidence that they miss out on the internal relationship.

That's a good way to put it.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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12/4/2012 3:35:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 7:40:34 AM, Apeiron wrote:
At 12/4/2012 7:22:20 AM, phantom wrote:
At 12/3/2012 11:53:29 PM, Apeiron wrote:
If you didn't think it mattered, then you probably wouldn't be on a forum answering why it doesn't.

So what are your personal reasons for why the existence of God, or Christ's claims matter?

The after-life, meaning, finding the truth.

What are your thoughts then on Christ claiming to be the truth and that no one gets an afterlife apart from him?

False and I don't believe he ever claimed that.

Also, do you think life has more than subjective meaning?

No
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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12/4/2012 3:38:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 9:05:39 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/4/2012 7:40:34 AM, Apeiron wrote:
At 12/4/2012 7:22:20 AM, phantom wrote:
At 12/3/2012 11:53:29 PM, Apeiron wrote:
If you didn't think it mattered, then you probably wouldn't be on a forum answering why it doesn't.

So what are your personal reasons for why the existence of God, or Christ's claims matter?

The after-life, meaning, finding the truth.

What are your thoughts then on Christ claiming to be the truth and that no one gets an afterlife apart from him?





Also, do you think life has more than subjective meaning?

I sure do. In fact, I think the common notion of one giving oneself own Existential meaning is probably incoherent. Or at least a highly doubtful notion.

Agreed with the last part. That's why there is no meaning.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/4/2012 6:37:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 3:35:32 PM, phantom wrote:
At 12/4/2012 7:40:34 AM, Apeiron wrote:
At 12/4/2012 7:22:20 AM, phantom wrote:
At 12/3/2012 11:53:29 PM, Apeiron wrote:
If you didn't think it mattered, then you probably wouldn't be on a forum answering why it doesn't.

So what are your personal reasons for why the existence of God, or Christ's claims matter?

The after-life, meaning, finding the truth.

What are your thoughts then on Christ claiming to be the truth and that no one gets an afterlife apart from him?

False and I don't believe he ever claimed that.

Also, do you think life has more than subjective meaning?

No

Strange, see John 14:6...
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/4/2012 6:38:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 3:38:12 PM, phantom wrote:
At 12/4/2012 9:05:39 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/4/2012 7:40:34 AM, Apeiron wrote:
At 12/4/2012 7:22:20 AM, phantom wrote:
At 12/3/2012 11:53:29 PM, Apeiron wrote:
If you didn't think it mattered, then you probably wouldn't be on a forum answering why it doesn't.

So what are your personal reasons for why the existence of God, or Christ's claims matter?

The after-life, meaning, finding the truth.

What are your thoughts then on Christ claiming to be the truth and that no one gets an afterlife apart from him?





Also, do you think life has more than subjective meaning?

I sure do. In fact, I think the common notion of one giving oneself own Existential meaning is probably incoherent. Or at least a highly doubtful notion.

Agreed with the last part. That's why there is no meaning.

You would say then that there is no objective or subjective meaning?
Now that's a crisis I can appreciate ;-) ... most people have to pay for that sort of existentialism.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/4/2012 6:42:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2012 9:13:00 AM, Apeiron wrote:

Subjective meaning does seem incoherent now that you mention it, I guess it's how you define meaning. ( But then "what do you mean by meaning" ... hrmm)

At 12/4/2012 3:38:12 PM, phantom wrote:

I sure do. In fact, I think the common notion of one giving oneself own Existential meaning is probably incoherent. Or at least a highly doubtful notion.

Agreed with the last part. That's why there is no meaning.

Just to explain what I mean by the incoherency charge : the "subjective existential meaning" thesis (applied to humans) is, roughly, that there is no existential meaning apart from what a person bestows upon themselves. Obviously, then, that meaning can't exist before a person decides (or acts or whatever they do) to bestow meaning. If that's the case, then when you consider the fact that, obviously, a person has has to exist prior to their acts to bestow meaning it would meant that the very acting of bestowing meaning is meaningless. This would mean that the persons existence is meaningless.

That argument works just the same way with the claim that someone can cause their ownself to exist. They'd have to exist prior to their existence to cause their own existence which is obvious nonsense. But one can't also have meaning before they have meaning.

Also, even if that doesn't work the whole notion is dubious for another reason: things with "real" existence aren't created - they are discovered. If I have all the liberties to decide when a person is born, their personality, their familial lineage, their appearance and what not you'd know instantly that I'm not talking about a real person. I'd be talking about a fictional character that I made up. With "real" existence, I don't have those sort of liberties - there is simply a fact matter about they are and I discover that. In that same way, if anyone can just "create" whatever existential meaning they choose that seems to indicate to me that they're talking about a fiction.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!