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Why I love being Agnostic.

emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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12/10/2012 7:41:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
-I like sitting on fences.
-I like making theists say, "Ok.... ok..... Nevermind.
-I like making atheists say, "Oh"
-I'm not ignorant.
-Theists and Atheists are not mad at me.
-I can do better things than worry about God existing.
-I can do better things than worry about God not existing.
-I like teaching stupid people that there is more than black and white.
-I like being logical.
-I like winning.
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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12/10/2012 7:48:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 7:41:05 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
-I like sitting on fences.
-I like making theists say, "Ok.... ok..... Nevermind.
-I like making atheists say, "Oh"
-I'm not ignorant.
-Theists and Atheists are not mad at me.
-I can do better things than worry about God existing.
-I can do better things than worry about God not existing.
-I like teaching stupid people that there is more than black and white.
-I like being logical.
-I like winning.

Your avatar is the symbol for the "Thinking Atheist"....just thought you should know.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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12/10/2012 7:49:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 7:48:08 PM, drafterman wrote:
Are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist?

Neither.
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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12/10/2012 7:49:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 7:48:44 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:41:05 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
-I like sitting on fences.
-I like making theists say, "Ok.... ok..... Nevermind.
-I like making atheists say, "Oh"
-I'm not ignorant.
-Theists and Atheists are not mad at me.
-I can do better things than worry about God existing.
-I can do better things than worry about God not existing.
-I like teaching stupid people that there is more than black and white.
-I like being logical.
-I like winning.

Your avatar is the symbol for the "Thinking Atheist"....just thought you should know.

Well I found it in the agnostic pictures.
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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12/10/2012 7:51:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 7:48:08 PM, drafterman wrote:
Are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist?

The dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac stayed up all night wondering if there really was a Dog.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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12/10/2012 7:51:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 7:49:31 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:48:44 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:41:05 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
-I like sitting on fences.
-I like making theists say, "Ok.... ok..... Nevermind.
-I like making atheists say, "Oh"
-I'm not ignorant.
-Theists and Atheists are not mad at me.
-I can do better things than worry about God existing.
-I can do better things than worry about God not existing.
-I like teaching stupid people that there is more than black and white.
-I like being logical.
-I like winning.

Your avatar is the symbol for the "Thinking Atheist"....just thought you should know.

Well I found it in the agnostic pictures.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com...
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/10/2012 7:52:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Agnosticism serves as a transitory segue between theism and atheism....and that's the only valid purpose I've ever witnessed. I sincerely pity the person who remains an agnostic for a long period of time.

The thing is that agnosticism is a bit of a red herring. While there it is valid to say that God's existence is unknowable, it is irrelevant. What we are debating is not knowledge but belief, and the justification thereof. Belief has no intermediary option, because the absence of belief is in fact non-belief. I understand that you take pride in seeing things in progressive color....but there are certain points at which things are indeed black and white. It's called the law of excluded middle. If you cannot say that you believe in God. Then you do not believe in God. Therefore you are an atheist.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/10/2012 7:55:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 7:49:01 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:48:08 PM, drafterman wrote:
Are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist?

Neither.

That's not a choice. Here, let's administer a test.

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/10/2012 7:56:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think this thread speaks a profound truth. We believe what we believe because of how it makes us feel about ourselves and how it affects our relationships with others.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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12/10/2012 7:56:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 7:52:34 PM, 000ike wrote:
Agnosticism serves as a transitory segue between theism and atheism....and that's the only valid purpose I've ever witnessed. I sincerely pity the person who remains an agnostic for a long period of time.

The thing is that agnosticism is a bit of a red herring. While there it is valid to say that God's existence is unknowable, it is irrelevant. What we are debating is not knowledge but belief, and the justification thereof. Belief has no intermediary option, because the absence of belief is in fact non-belief. I understand that you take pride in seeing things in progressive color....but there are certain points at which things are indeed black and white. It's called the law of excluded middle. If you cannot say that you believe in God. Then you do not believe in God. Therefore you are an atheist.

That's absolute garbage.

Agnostic - a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. Synonyms: disbeliever, nonbeliever, unbeliever; doubter, skeptic, secularist, empiricist; heathen, heretic, infidel, pagan. [1]

http://dictionary.reference.com... [1]
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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12/10/2012 7:57:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 7:55:30 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:49:01 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:48:08 PM, drafterman wrote:
Are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist?

Neither.

That's not a choice. Here, let's administer a test.

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't care.
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/10/2012 7:58:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 7:57:41 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:55:30 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:49:01 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:48:08 PM, drafterman wrote:
Are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist?

Neither.

That's not a choice. Here, let's administer a test.

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't care.

I didn't ask if you cared, I asked what you believed. Let's try again:

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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12/10/2012 7:58:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 7:55:30 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:49:01 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:48:08 PM, drafterman wrote:
Are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist?

Neither.

That's not a choice. Here, let's administer a test.

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

*Tears test into pieces*

*Stomps off*
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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12/10/2012 7:59:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 7:58:24 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:57:41 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:55:30 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:49:01 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:48:08 PM, drafterman wrote:
Are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist?

Neither.

That's not a choice. Here, let's administer a test.

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't care.

I didn't ask if you cared, I asked what you believed. Let's try again:

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't know.
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/10/2012 7:59:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 7:56:56 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:52:34 PM, 000ike wrote:
Agnosticism serves as a transitory segue between theism and atheism....and that's the only valid purpose I've ever witnessed. I sincerely pity the person who remains an agnostic for a long period of time.

The thing is that agnosticism is a bit of a red herring. While there it is valid to say that God's existence is unknowable, it is irrelevant. What we are debating is not knowledge but belief, and the justification thereof. Belief has no intermediary option, because the absence of belief is in fact non-belief. I understand that you take pride in seeing things in progressive color....but there are certain points at which things are indeed black and white. It's called the law of excluded middle. If you cannot say that you believe in God. Then you do not believe in God. Therefore you are an atheist.

That's absolute garbage.

Agnostic - a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. Synonyms: disbeliever, nonbeliever, unbeliever; doubter, skeptic, secularist, empiricist; heathen, heretic, infidel, pagan. [1]

http://dictionary.reference.com... [1]

I think you've misunderstood ike, because nothing he said contradicts that definition. At least not in my reading.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/10/2012 7:59:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 7:59:07 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:58:24 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:57:41 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:55:30 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:49:01 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:48:08 PM, drafterman wrote:
Are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist?

Neither.

That's not a choice. Here, let's administer a test.

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't care.

I didn't ask if you cared, I asked what you believed. Let's try again:

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't know.

I didn't ask what you know, I asked what you believe. Let's try again:

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/10/2012 8:00:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 7:56:56 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:52:34 PM, 000ike wrote:
Agnosticism serves as a transitory segue between theism and atheism....and that's the only valid purpose I've ever witnessed. I sincerely pity the person who remains an agnostic for a long period of time.

The thing is that agnosticism is a bit of a red herring. While there it is valid to say that God's existence is unknowable, it is irrelevant. What we are debating is not knowledge but belief, and the justification thereof. Belief has no intermediary option, because the absence of belief is in fact non-belief. I understand that you take pride in seeing things in progressive color....but there are certain points at which things are indeed black and white. It's called the law of excluded middle. If you cannot say that you believe in God. Then you do not believe in God. Therefore you are an atheist.

That's absolute garbage.

Agnostic - a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. Synonyms: disbeliever, nonbeliever, unbeliever; doubter, skeptic, secularist, empiricist; heathen, heretic, infidel, pagan. [1]

http://dictionary.reference.com... [1]

Look up the difference between belief & knowledge (since you evidently don't know)...and then come back to me.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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12/10/2012 8:03:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 7:59:41 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:59:07 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:58:24 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:57:41 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:55:30 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:49:01 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:48:08 PM, drafterman wrote:
Are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist?

Neither.

That's not a choice. Here, let's administer a test.

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't care.

I didn't ask if you cared, I asked what you believed. Let's try again:

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't know.

I didn't ask what you know, I asked what you believe. Let's try again:

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't have beliefs, I don't have dis-beliefs. I either know or I don't know.

Let's take a look.

A. A blorb exists.
B. How so?
A. I can't show you.
B. I don't know then.

A. Evolution occurs.
B. How so?
A. Shows evidence.
B. I know.
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/10/2012 8:04:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 8:03:10 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:59:41 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:59:07 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:58:24 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:57:41 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:55:30 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:49:01 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:48:08 PM, drafterman wrote:
Are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist?

Neither.

That's not a choice. Here, let's administer a test.

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't care.

I didn't ask if you cared, I asked what you believed. Let's try again:

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't know.

I didn't ask what you know, I asked what you believe. Let's try again:

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't have beliefs, I don't have dis-beliefs.

Yes you do.

I either know or I don't know.

Knowledge is a type of belief, so it is inconsistent of you to say you don't have beliefs but otherwise claim to have knowledge. Regardless, if you don't have beliefs, then you don't believe in a god or gods (so your answer is "No") and you're an atheist.


Let's take a look.

A. A blorb exists.
B. How so?
A. I can't show you.
B. I don't know then.

A. Evolution occurs.
B. How so?
A. Shows evidence.
B. I know.
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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12/10/2012 8:07:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 8:04:40 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 8:03:10 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:59:41 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:59:07 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:58:24 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:57:41 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:55:30 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:49:01 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:48:08 PM, drafterman wrote:
Are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist?

Neither.

That's not a choice. Here, let's administer a test.

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't care.

I didn't ask if you cared, I asked what you believed. Let's try again:

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't know.

I didn't ask what you know, I asked what you believe. Let's try again:

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't have beliefs, I don't have dis-beliefs.

Yes you do.

I either know or I don't know.

Knowledge is a type of belief, so it is inconsistent of you to say you don't have beliefs but otherwise claim to have knowledge. Regardless, if you don't have beliefs, then you don't believe in a god or gods (so your answer is "No") and you're an atheist.

How so?



Let's take a look.

A. A blorb exists.
B. How so?
A. I can't show you.
B. I don't know then.

A. Evolution occurs.
B. How so?
A. Shows evidence.
B. I know.
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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12/10/2012 8:09:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 7:59:19 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:56:56 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:52:34 PM, 000ike wrote:
Agnosticism serves as a transitory segue between theism and atheism....and that's the only valid purpose I've ever witnessed. I sincerely pity the person who remains an agnostic for a long period of time.

The thing is that agnosticism is a bit of a red herring. While there it is valid to say that God's existence is unknowable, it is irrelevant. What we are debating is not knowledge but belief, and the justification thereof. Belief has no intermediary option, because the absence of belief is in fact non-belief.

False statement. Belief has intermediates, just as any other persuasion. To claim otherwise would deny a whole spectrum of fervor for a person's ideology.
I am agnostic. I have left the church, dropped out of seminary and rejected the idea that Christianity holds any power. I have not, however, excluded the possibility of Omnipotence. It would be a myopic reduction of the argument. An uncritical assesment of the unknowable.

Agnostics are best described as honestly indifferent. I'm simply not willing to concede an atheistic worldview and at the same time, I reject a singular paradigm of theism.

"Agnosticism.....it's like ordering Chicken Alfredo in a Seafood restaurant. Saftey dish."
I understand that you take pride in seeing things in progressive color....but there are certain points at which things are indeed black and white. It's called the law of excluded middle. If you cannot say that you believe in God. Then you do not believe in God. Therefore you are an atheist.

That's absolute garbage.

Agnostic - a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. Synonyms: disbeliever, nonbeliever, unbeliever; doubter, skeptic, secularist, empiricist; heathen, heretic, infidel, pagan. [1]

http://dictionary.reference.com... [1]

I think you've misunderstood ike, because nothing he said contradicts that definition. At least not in my reading.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/10/2012 8:09:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 8:03:10 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:

I don't have beliefs, I don't have dis-beliefs. I either know or I don't know.

Let's take a look.

A. A blorb exists.
B. How so?
A. I can't show you.
B. I don't know then.

A. Evolution occurs.
B. How so?
A. Shows evidence.
B. I know.

Disbelief isn't positive, nor does it exert an effort. Disbelief is the default in the absence of a positive belief. No one asked you if you disbelieve in God. The only relevant question is, do you believe...and you said no. Maybe the fact that "disbelieve" is a verb, may be confusing you.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/10/2012 8:10:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 8:07:48 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 8:04:40 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 8:03:10 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:59:41 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:59:07 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:58:24 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:57:41 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:55:30 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:49:01 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:48:08 PM, drafterman wrote:
Are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist?

Neither.

That's not a choice. Here, let's administer a test.

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't care.

I didn't ask if you cared, I asked what you believed. Let's try again:

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't know.

I didn't ask what you know, I asked what you believe. Let's try again:

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't have beliefs, I don't have dis-beliefs.

Yes you do.

I either know or I don't know.

Knowledge is a type of belief, so it is inconsistent of you to say you don't have beliefs but otherwise claim to have knowledge. Regardless, if you don't have beliefs, then you don't believe in a god or gods (so your answer is "No") and you're an atheist.

How so?

Knowledge is a justified true belief. You can't know something if you don't believe it. It is nonsensical to say, for example: "I know the sky is blue, but I don't believe the sky is blue."
http://en.wikipedia.org...

But, we needn't even go down this road. You said you have no beliefs, which includes a belief in god, making you an atheist. Sorry, you can't avoid it.




Let's take a look.

A. A blorb exists.
B. How so?
A. I can't show you.
B. I don't know then.

A. Evolution occurs.
B. How so?
A. Shows evidence.
B. I know.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/10/2012 8:11:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 8:09:01 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:59:19 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:56:56 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:52:34 PM, 000ike wrote:
Agnosticism serves as a transitory segue between theism and atheism....and that's the only valid purpose I've ever witnessed. I sincerely pity the person who remains an agnostic for a long period of time.

The thing is that agnosticism is a bit of a red herring. While there it is valid to say that God's existence is unknowable, it is irrelevant. What we are debating is not knowledge but belief, and the justification thereof. Belief has no intermediary option, because the absence of belief is in fact non-belief.

False statement. Belief has intermediates, just as any other persuasion. To claim otherwise would deny a whole spectrum of fervor for a person's ideology.
I am agnostic. I have left the church, dropped out of seminary and rejected the idea that Christianity holds any power. I have not, however, excluded the possibility of Omnipotence. It would be a myopic reduction of the argument. An uncritical assesment of the unknowable.

Agnostics are best described as honestly indifferent. I'm simply not willing to concede an atheistic worldview and at the same time, I reject a singular paradigm of theism.

"Agnosticism.....it's like ordering Chicken Alfredo in a Seafood restaurant. Saftey dish."

http://en.wikipedia.org...
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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12/10/2012 8:12:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 8:00:50 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:56:56 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:52:34 PM, 000ike wrote:
Agnosticism serves as a transitory segue between theism and atheism....and that's the only valid purpose I've ever witnessed. I sincerely pity the person who remains an agnostic for a long period of time.

The thing is that agnosticism is a bit of a red herring. While there it is valid to say that God's existence is unknowable, it is irrelevant. What we are debating is not knowledge but belief, and the justification thereof. Belief has no intermediary option, because the absence of belief is in fact non-belief. I understand that you take pride in seeing things in progressive color....but there are certain points at which things are indeed black and white. It's called the law of excluded middle. If you cannot say that you believe in God. Then you do not believe in God. Therefore you are an atheist.

That's absolute garbage.

Agnostic - a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. Synonyms: disbeliever, nonbeliever, unbeliever; doubter, skeptic, secularist, empiricist; heathen, heretic, infidel, pagan. [1]

http://dictionary.reference.com... [1]

Look up the difference between belief & knowledge (since you evidently don't know)...and then come back to me.

Yes, yes Ike. You've singlehandedly elliminated an entire worldview with your brilliant pocket-gem. You damn well know enough about the Christian faith to understand that most Christians claim to "know" their savior on a personal level.

Like I said...myopic reduction of the argument.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/10/2012 8:15:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 8:12:49 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2012 8:00:50 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:56:56 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:52:34 PM, 000ike wrote:
Agnosticism serves as a transitory segue between theism and atheism....and that's the only valid purpose I've ever witnessed. I sincerely pity the person who remains an agnostic for a long period of time.

The thing is that agnosticism is a bit of a red herring. While there it is valid to say that God's existence is unknowable, it is irrelevant. What we are debating is not knowledge but belief, and the justification thereof. Belief has no intermediary option, because the absence of belief is in fact non-belief. I understand that you take pride in seeing things in progressive color....but there are certain points at which things are indeed black and white. It's called the law of excluded middle. If you cannot say that you believe in God. Then you do not believe in God. Therefore you are an atheist.

That's absolute garbage.

Agnostic - a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. Synonyms: disbeliever, nonbeliever, unbeliever; doubter, skeptic, secularist, empiricist; heathen, heretic, infidel, pagan. [1]

http://dictionary.reference.com... [1]

Look up the difference between belief & knowledge (since you evidently don't know)...and then come back to me.

Yes, yes Ike. You've singlehandedly elliminated an entire worldview with your brilliant pocket-gem. You damn well know enough about the Christian faith to understand that most Christians claim to "know" their savior on a personal level.

Like I said...myopic reduction of the argument.

What worldview did he eliminate?
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/10/2012 8:16:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 8:12:49 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2012 8:00:50 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:56:56 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:52:34 PM, 000ike wrote:
Agnosticism serves as a transitory segue between theism and atheism....and that's the only valid purpose I've ever witnessed. I sincerely pity the person who remains an agnostic for a long period of time.

The thing is that agnosticism is a bit of a red herring. While there it is valid to say that God's existence is unknowable, it is irrelevant. What we are debating is not knowledge but belief, and the justification thereof. Belief has no intermediary option, because the absence of belief is in fact non-belief. I understand that you take pride in seeing things in progressive color....but there are certain points at which things are indeed black and white. It's called the law of excluded middle. If you cannot say that you believe in God. Then you do not believe in God. Therefore you are an atheist.

That's absolute garbage.

Agnostic - a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. Synonyms: disbeliever, nonbeliever, unbeliever; doubter, skeptic, secularist, empiricist; heathen, heretic, infidel, pagan. [1]

http://dictionary.reference.com... [1]

Look up the difference between belief & knowledge (since you evidently don't know)...and then come back to me.

Yes, yes Ike. You've singlehandedly elliminated an entire worldview with your brilliant pocket-gem. You damn well know enough about the Christian faith to understand that most Christians claim to "know" their savior on a personal level.

Like I said...myopic reduction of the argument.

I didn't eliminate Agnosticism, or say that it was false. I don't think you're understanding the argument here....
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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12/10/2012 8:17:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 8:10:42 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 8:07:48 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 8:04:40 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 8:03:10 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:59:41 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:59:07 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:58:24 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:57:41 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:55:30 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:49:01 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:48:08 PM, drafterman wrote:
Are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist?

Neither.

That's not a choice. Here, let's administer a test.

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't care.

I didn't ask if you cared, I asked what you believed. Let's try again:

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't know.

I didn't ask what you know, I asked what you believe. Let's try again:

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't have beliefs, I don't have dis-beliefs.

Yes you do.

I either know or I don't know.

Knowledge is a type of belief, so it is inconsistent of you to say you don't have beliefs but otherwise claim to have knowledge. Regardless, if you don't have beliefs, then you don't believe in a god or gods (so your answer is "No") and you're an atheist.

How so?

Knowledge is a justified true belief. You can't know something if you don't believe it. It is nonsensical to say, for example: "I know the sky is blue, but I don't believe the sky is blue."
http://en.wikipedia.org...

But, we needn't even go down this road. You said you have no beliefs, which includes a belief in god, making you an atheist. Sorry, you can't avoid it.

Dude, as I said I do not care if God(s) exist(s) nor do I care if a God doesn't exist.
Rationalism and Doubt are the only humble attitudes to have towards any claim that any certain thing occurs or exists.





Let's take a look.

A. A blorb exists.
B. How so?
A. I can't show you.
B. I don't know then.

A. Evolution occurs.
B. How so?
A. Shows evidence.
B. I know.
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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12/10/2012 8:17:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 7:57:41 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:55:30 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:49:01 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 7:48:08 PM, drafterman wrote:
Are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist?

Neither.

That's not a choice. Here, let's administer a test.

Do you believe that a god or gods exist?

I don't care.

I call this an "American Agnostic."