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MouthWash
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12/11/2012 2:32:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If you believe that God is above logic, then how can libertarian free will solve the Problem of Evil? It may be logical to you, but isn't that irrelevant? How can anything solve the Problem of Evil, for that matter?

Quite an obvious hole in your ideas.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
popculturepooka
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12/11/2012 2:42:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:32:47 PM, MouthWash wrote:
If you believe that God is above logic,

Where, how, and when did I say or imply that?

then how can libertarian free will solve the Problem of Evil?

Where, how, and when did I say that? I think it "solves" the logical AoE but where the real debate is at - the evidential AoE - it, at most, provides a partial explanation. It doesn't "solve" that one.

It may be logical to you, but isn't that irrelevant?

?

How can anything solve the Problem of Evil, for that matter?


That's a good question.

Quite an obvious hole in your ideas.

Probably an imagined hole because I can't remember saying or implying any of this in my entire lifetime much less on this website.
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000ike
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12/11/2012 2:45:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm sure that if he really does believe that God is above logic he has much more destructive problems than that. How can you make an argument concerning God if the rules that govern coherent argumentation have no bearing on him? Kind of like using the rules of chess to predict the weather....

But then again, if you say that God is subservient to logic, then you're saying that he is not omnipotent, and furthermore, there exists an order that he cannot surpass. This undermines his Godly nature, and makes him merely a random, celestial being on the periphery of existence, with no real universal significance.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Nidhogg
Posts: 503
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12/11/2012 2:47:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:45:47 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm sure that if he really does believe that God is above logic he has much more destructive problems than that. How can you make an argument concerning God if the rules that govern coherent argumentation have no bearing on him? Kind of like using the rules of chess to predict the weather....

But then again, if you say that God is subservient to logic, then you're saying that he is not omnipotent, and furthermore, there exists an order that he cannot surpass. This undermines his Godly nature, and makes him merely a random, celestial being on the periphery of existence, with no real universal significance.

What if God is logic?
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Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/11/2012 2:51:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Given that there are several perspectives on theism, and many of them contradict one another, why is this "Problem of Evil" such an important concept? The entire concept of God is not contingent on perceiving God as a "maximally great being in the purest, most objective sense," because a maximally great being in the purest, most objective sense would not only belie the existence of its antithesis (in this case, evil), but the existence of anything else.

I understand that the most general conception of God as it pertains to the English language is an ultimate, supreme being and the creator of the Universe. The fact that this does not coincide with any current conception of God in the religious sense (in terms of the doctrine, at least) notwithstanding, the fact remains that one can be a supreme being by merit of being the creator of the universe as that being relates to humanity, but that does not necessarily suggest that this supreme being can belie any and every existence of conception despite itself, such as an existence outside the universe (which most religions at least suggest), or the existence of evil.
000ike
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12/11/2012 2:52:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:47:34 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:45:47 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm sure that if he really does believe that God is above logic he has much more destructive problems than that. How can you make an argument concerning God if the rules that govern coherent argumentation have no bearing on him? Kind of like using the rules of chess to predict the weather....

But then again, if you say that God is subservient to logic, then you're saying that he is not omnipotent, and furthermore, there exists an order that he cannot surpass. This undermines his Godly nature, and makes him merely a random, celestial being on the periphery of existence, with no real universal significance.

What if God is logic?

I find that in philosophical and religious reasoning people tend to string words together without at all knowing what they mean (often times lacking a coherent meaning), but asserting them anyway because they sound nice.

What is God? Now, what is logic? How are these things equivalent?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
iamnotwhoiam
Posts: 171
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12/11/2012 2:53:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:45:47 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm sure that if he really does believe that God is above logic he has much more destructive problems than that. How can you make an argument concerning God if the rules that govern coherent argumentation have no bearing on him? Kind of like using the rules of chess to predict the weather....

But then again, if you say that God is subservient to logic, then you're saying that he is not omnipotent, and furthermore, there exists an order that he cannot surpass. This undermines his Godly nature, and makes him merely a random, celestial being on the periphery of existence, with no real universal significance.

The answer is that God's nature is logical. He is not subservient to logic, it is of him, but he is no more capable of being illogical than he is of being evil.

Of course, this is bullshiit in that there are plenty of examples of God being illogical and evil. The capital G usually implying YHVH.
Ren
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12/11/2012 2:53:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:45:47 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm sure that if he really does believe that God is above logic he has much more destructive problems than that. How can you make an argument concerning God if the rules that govern coherent argumentation have no bearing on him? Kind of like using the rules of chess to predict the weather....

But then again, if you say that God is subservient to logic, then you're saying that he is not omnipotent, and furthermore, there exists an order that he cannot surpass. This undermines his Godly nature, and makes him merely a random, celestial being on the periphery of existence, with no real universal significance.

God is not given Universal significance in the Bible. In fact, the Bible never even so much as refers to the Universe at large. Taking it a step further, there is even a suggestion that earth existed before God came into play, in terms of where the Christian story begins. The only actual aspect of reality with which the Bible outright credits God is life and the necessary conditions to make it possible.
Nidhogg
Posts: 503
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12/11/2012 2:54:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:52:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:47:34 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:45:47 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm sure that if he really does believe that God is above logic he has much more destructive problems than that. How can you make an argument concerning God if the rules that govern coherent argumentation have no bearing on him? Kind of like using the rules of chess to predict the weather....

But then again, if you say that God is subservient to logic, then you're saying that he is not omnipotent, and furthermore, there exists an order that he cannot surpass. This undermines his Godly nature, and makes him merely a random, celestial being on the periphery of existence, with no real universal significance.

What if God is logic?

I find that in philosophical and religious reasoning people tend to string words together without at all knowing what they mean (often times lacking a coherent meaning), but asserting them anyway because they sound nice.

What is God? Now, what is logic? How are these things equivalent?

I was being sarcastic. Jesus Christ.
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popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/11/2012 2:55:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The real question here is how you came to attribute these views to me.

o_O
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/11/2012 3:01:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:54:17 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:52:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:47:34 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:45:47 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm sure that if he really does believe that God is above logic he has much more destructive problems than that. How can you make an argument concerning God if the rules that govern coherent argumentation have no bearing on him? Kind of like using the rules of chess to predict the weather....

But then again, if you say that God is subservient to logic, then you're saying that he is not omnipotent, and furthermore, there exists an order that he cannot surpass. This undermines his Godly nature, and makes him merely a random, celestial being on the periphery of existence, with no real universal significance.

What if God is logic?

I find that in philosophical and religious reasoning people tend to string words together without at all knowing what they mean (often times lacking a coherent meaning), but asserting them anyway because they sound nice.

What is God? Now, what is logic? How are these things equivalent?

I was being sarcastic. Jesus Christ.

I'm sorry. It's just that many people *cough*thett*cough* have said that to me in response to my argument, being dead serious, and essentially I'm beside myself when I hear it. I assumed you were being serious too
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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12/11/2012 3:03:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:32:47 PM, MouthWash wrote:
If you believe that God is above logic, then how can libertarian free will solve the Problem of Evil? It may be logical to you, but isn't that irrelevant? How can anything solve the Problem of Evil, for that matter?

Quite an obvious hole in your ideas.

Evil is the absence of God.

In order to be able to reject God there must be the absence of Him: Evil.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/11/2012 3:04:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:55:49 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The real question here is how you came to attribute these views to me.

o_O

The real question is how you believe that God is subservient to logic, yet is still omnipotent.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
popculturepooka
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12/11/2012 3:05:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:04:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:55:49 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The real question here is how you came to attribute these views to me.

o_O

The real question is how you believe that God is subservient to logic, yet is still omnipotent.

I don't. I'm not sure how you came to attribute these views to me either.
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SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 2,215
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12/11/2012 3:08:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:05:53 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:04:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:55:49 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The real question here is how you came to attribute these views to me.

o_O

The real question is how you believe that God is subservient to logic, yet is still omnipotent.

I don't. I'm not sure how you came to attribute these views to me either.

What do you believe regarding God and logic? Does God follow it or is he limited by it?
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/11/2012 3:08:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:53:51 PM, Ren wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:45:47 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm sure that if he really does believe that God is above logic he has much more destructive problems than that. How can you make an argument concerning God if the rules that govern coherent argumentation have no bearing on him? Kind of like using the rules of chess to predict the weather....

But then again, if you say that God is subservient to logic, then you're saying that he is not omnipotent, and furthermore, there exists an order that he cannot surpass. This undermines his Godly nature, and makes him merely a random, celestial being on the periphery of existence, with no real universal significance.

God is not given Universal significance in the Bible. In fact, the Bible never even so much as refers to the Universe at large. Taking it a step further, there is even a suggestion that earth existed before God came into play, in terms of where the Christian story begins. The only actual aspect of reality with which the Bible outright credits God is life and the necessary conditions to make it possible.

hm, I guess I just imagined that book of Genesis thing....
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/11/2012 3:10:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:05:53 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:04:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:55:49 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The real question here is how you came to attribute these views to me.

o_O

The real question is how you believe that God is subservient to logic, yet is still omnipotent.

I don't. I'm not sure how you came to attribute these views to me either.

Well which is it? God is either above logic or he is subservient to logic.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/11/2012 3:12:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:08:56 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:53:51 PM, Ren wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:45:47 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm sure that if he really does believe that God is above logic he has much more destructive problems than that. How can you make an argument concerning God if the rules that govern coherent argumentation have no bearing on him? Kind of like using the rules of chess to predict the weather....

But then again, if you say that God is subservient to logic, then you're saying that he is not omnipotent, and furthermore, there exists an order that he cannot surpass. This undermines his Godly nature, and makes him merely a random, celestial being on the periphery of existence, with no real universal significance.

God is not given Universal significance in the Bible. In fact, the Bible never even so much as refers to the Universe at large. Taking it a step further, there is even a suggestion that earth existed before God came into play, in terms of where the Christian story begins. The only actual aspect of reality with which the Bible outright credits God is life and the necessary conditions to make it possible.

hm, I guess I just imagined that book of Genesis thing....

LOL, I guess you did. In fact, I'm willing to place bets that you didn't so much as read a third page from it.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/11/2012 3:14:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:08:55 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:05:53 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:04:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:55:49 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The real question here is how you came to attribute these views to me.

o_O

The real question is how you believe that God is subservient to logic, yet is still omnipotent.

I don't. I'm not sure how you came to attribute these views to me either.

What do you believe regarding God and logic? Does God follow it or is he limited by it?

http://www.debate.org...

The ontological status of laws of logic = divine thoughts
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/11/2012 3:15:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:12:20 PM, Ren wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:08:56 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:53:51 PM, Ren wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:45:47 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm sure that if he really does believe that God is above logic he has much more destructive problems than that. How can you make an argument concerning God if the rules that govern coherent argumentation have no bearing on him? Kind of like using the rules of chess to predict the weather....

But then again, if you say that God is subservient to logic, then you're saying that he is not omnipotent, and furthermore, there exists an order that he cannot surpass. This undermines his Godly nature, and makes him merely a random, celestial being on the periphery of existence, with no real universal significance.

God is not given Universal significance in the Bible. In fact, the Bible never even so much as refers to the Universe at large. Taking it a step further, there is even a suggestion that earth existed before God came into play, in terms of where the Christian story begins. The only actual aspect of reality with which the Bible outright credits God is life and the necessary conditions to make it possible.

hm, I guess I just imagined that book of Genesis thing....

LOL, I guess you did. In fact, I'm willing to place bets that you didn't so much as read a third page from it.

Well you'd lose that bet. It was read to me when I was younger. The first line is "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"... which immediately suggests that the Earth did not exist before God came into play...which is heresy in all seriousness.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/11/2012 3:15:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:10:22 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:05:53 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:04:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:55:49 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The real question here is how you came to attribute these views to me.

o_O

The real question is how you believe that God is subservient to logic, yet is still omnipotent.

I don't. I'm not sure how you came to attribute these views to me either.

Well which is it? God is either above logic or he is subservient to logic.

Or it simply may be that you don't have an adequate conception of the space and range of possibilities of thinking about God's relation to logic.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/11/2012 3:19:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:32:47 PM, MouthWash wrote:
If you believe that God is above logic, then how can libertarian free will solve the Problem of Evil? It may be logical to you, but isn't that irrelevant? How can anything solve the Problem of Evil, for that matter?

Quite an obvious hole in your ideas.

What do you mean by 'above logic'? ...
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/11/2012 3:22:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:15:30 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:12:20 PM, Ren wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:08:56 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:53:51 PM, Ren wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:45:47 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm sure that if he really does believe that God is above logic he has much more destructive problems than that. How can you make an argument concerning God if the rules that govern coherent argumentation have no bearing on him? Kind of like using the rules of chess to predict the weather....

But then again, if you say that God is subservient to logic, then you're saying that he is not omnipotent, and furthermore, there exists an order that he cannot surpass. This undermines his Godly nature, and makes him merely a random, celestial being on the periphery of existence, with no real universal significance.

God is not given Universal significance in the Bible. In fact, the Bible never even so much as refers to the Universe at large. Taking it a step further, there is even a suggestion that earth existed before God came into play, in terms of where the Christian story begins. The only actual aspect of reality with which the Bible outright credits God is life and the necessary conditions to make it possible.

hm, I guess I just imagined that book of Genesis thing....

LOL, I guess you did. In fact, I'm willing to place bets that you didn't so much as read a third page from it.

Well you'd lose that bet. It was read to me when I was younger. The first line is "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"... which immediately suggests that the Earth did not exist before God came into play...which is heresy in all seriousness.

Listening isn't reading, bro, so that'd be a successful wager.

Genesis 2:1 "Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array."

That is the first statement made in the second chapter of Genesis. That literally states that everything preceding it was that "completion of the heavens and the earth."

That would make the first statement of the Bible "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" a preclusion that states what is about to be described.

This description begins with "Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters," which means that there was both an earth and a sea, but no light and no life. So, what the first thing that God did? He created light.

If there were no earth, there would have been nothing for Him to illuminate. It would have also been interesting that God could instantaneously create an entire planet complete with an ocean, yet to simply separate land from the water and cause vegetation to grow on its own takes an entire "day":

"9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

"11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning"the third day."

These are probably things you might have noticed if you actually read the book.
Ren
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12/11/2012 3:27:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:22:06 PM, Ren wrote:

That would make the first statement of the Bible "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" a preconception that states what is about to be described.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/11/2012 3:30:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:15:51 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:10:22 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:05:53 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:04:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:55:49 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The real question here is how you came to attribute these views to me.

o_O

The real question is how you believe that God is subservient to logic, yet is still omnipotent.

I don't. I'm not sure how you came to attribute these views to me either.

Well which is it? God is either above logic or he is subservient to logic.

Or it simply may be that you don't have an adequate conception of the space and range of possibilities of thinking about God's relation to logic.

Every belief and every study regardless of how complex its branches become, ultimately answers to intuitive human reasoning to be accepted by human beings. If the concept transcends intuitive human reasoning it is conceptualized and deconstructed in such a manner that eventually allows us to say "that makes sense." It always returns to a certain base and natural reasoning before any person can adopt it, accept it, believe it, or teach it. And it is from this basis that so many people can study and learn things of a complex order. If you've adopted some belief in some different type of relationship between god and logic, then surely at some point in your reasoning, that final relevant connection exists, linking the concept to that base and natural reasoning that occurs in all people with the concept. You need to identify it and use it here to explain yourself and your belief. So I will ask you to explain this relation between logic and God, and we'll see if it makes sense.

tl;dr - Explain your belief, or your comment means nothing.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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12/11/2012 3:30:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:42:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:32:47 PM, MouthWash wrote:
If you believe that God is above logic,

Where, how, and when did I say or imply that?

In your debate when you claimed that the existence of logic was proof of God.

then how can libertarian free will solve the Problem of Evil?

Where, how, and when did I say that? I think it "solves" the logical AoE but where the real debate is at - the evidential AoE - it, at most, provides a partial explanation. It doesn't "solve" that one.

It may be logical to you, but isn't that irrelevant?

?

How can anything solve the Problem of Evil, for that matter?


That's a good question.

Quite an obvious hole in your ideas.

Probably an imagined hole because I can't remember saying or implying any of this in my entire lifetime much less on this website.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/11/2012 3:39:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:30:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:15:51 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:10:22 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:05:53 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:04:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:55:49 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The real question here is how you came to attribute these views to me.

o_O

The real question is how you believe that God is subservient to logic, yet is still omnipotent.

I don't. I'm not sure how you came to attribute these views to me either.

Well which is it? God is either above logic or he is subservient to logic.

Or it simply may be that you don't have an adequate conception of the space and range of possibilities of thinking about God's relation to logic.

Every belief and every study regardless of how complex its branches become, ultimately answers to intuitive human reasoning to be accepted by human beings. If the concept transcends intuitive human reasoning it is conceptualized and deconstructed in such a manner that eventually allows us to say "that makes sense." It always returns to a certain base and natural reasoning before any person can adopt it, accept it, believe it, or teach it. And it is from this basis that so many people can study and learn things of a complex order. If you've adopted some belief in some different type of relationship between god and logic, then surely at some point in your reasoning, that final relevant connection exists, linking the concept to that base and natural reasoning that occurs in all people with the concept. You need to identify it and use it here to explain yourself and your belief. So I will ask you to explain this relation between logic and God, and we'll see if it makes sense.

tl;dr - Explain your belief, or your comment means nothing.

My tl;dr - I already did. I'm not going to retype out everything.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/11/2012 3:39:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:30:34 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:42:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:32:47 PM, MouthWash wrote:
If you believe that God is above logic,

Where, how, and when did I say or imply that?

In your debate when you claimed that the existence of logic was proof of God.


Really? Where in the debate did I claim that?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/11/2012 3:41:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:39:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:30:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:15:51 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:10:22 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:05:53 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:04:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:55:49 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The real question here is how you came to attribute these views to me.

o_O

The real question is how you believe that God is subservient to logic, yet is still omnipotent.

I don't. I'm not sure how you came to attribute these views to me either.

Well which is it? God is either above logic or he is subservient to logic.

Or it simply may be that you don't have an adequate conception of the space and range of possibilities of thinking about God's relation to logic.

Every belief and every study regardless of how complex its branches become, ultimately answers to intuitive human reasoning to be accepted by human beings. If the concept transcends intuitive human reasoning it is conceptualized and deconstructed in such a manner that eventually allows us to say "that makes sense." It always returns to a certain base and natural reasoning before any person can adopt it, accept it, believe it, or teach it. And it is from this basis that so many people can study and learn things of a complex order. If you've adopted some belief in some different type of relationship between god and logic, then surely at some point in your reasoning, that final relevant connection exists, linking the concept to that base and natural reasoning that occurs in all people with the concept. You need to identify it and use it here to explain yourself and your belief. So I will ask you to explain this relation between logic and God, and we'll see if it makes sense.

tl;dr - Explain your belief, or your comment means nothing.

My tl;dr - I already did. I'm not going to retype out everything.

where?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/11/2012 3:42:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:39:42 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:30:34 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:42:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:32:47 PM, MouthWash wrote:
If you believe that God is above logic,

Where, how, and when did I say or imply that?

In your debate when you claimed that the existence of logic was proof of God.


Really? Where in the debate did I claim that?

I mean where did I claim in that debate that God was "above" logic.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!