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Everything happens for a reason...?

UltimateSkeptic
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12/11/2012 2:53:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Does it bother anyone else when they hear this being said?

I never understood that everything happens for a reason, especially saying it at the face of the random world we live in. There is no reason children die of disease or starve to death, that some men torture or kill on massive scales, that women are raped, that we live on a planet that doesn't support our life on 70% of its surface, that our planet is the only planet in our solar system that supports our life, or that we are placed in this tiny corner of the universe by ourselves, when the prospect of other life on other planets in different galaxies are extremely abundant, so that we can't communicate with life in any other the other 200,000 galaxies.

I placed this in the Religious forums because it is often a claimed philosphy backed or provoked by religious viewpoints.
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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12/11/2012 3:00:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:53:32 PM, UltimateSkeptic wrote:
Does it bother anyone else when they hear this being said?

I never understood that everything happens for a reason, especially saying it at the face of the random world we live in. There is no reason children die of disease or starve to death, that some men torture or kill on massive scales, that women are raped, that we live on a planet that doesn't support our life on 70% of its surface, that our planet is the only planet in our solar system that supports our life, or that we are placed in this tiny corner of the universe by ourselves, when the prospect of other life on other planets in different galaxies are extremely abundant, so that we can't communicate with life in any other the other 200,000 galaxies.

I placed this in the Religious forums because it is often a claimed philosphy backed or provoked by religious viewpoints.

It does; to glorify His holy name! If I say to you "don't go in that room there's a wild animal in there" and you say "yeah, right" and go in and get torn to pieces, then I am proved good and right..

God said "do not eat that fruit"

The consequence of that rebellion is all the evil we see in the world, hence glorifying His righteous.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
proglib
Posts: 391
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12/11/2012 3:02:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:53:32 PM, UltimateSkeptic wrote:
Does it bother anyone else when they hear this being said?

I never understood that everything happens for a reason, especially saying it at the face of the random world we live in. There is no reason children die of disease or starve to death, that some men torture or kill on massive scales, that women are raped, that we live on a planet that doesn't support our life on 70% of its surface, that our planet is the only planet in our solar system that supports our life, or that we are placed in this tiny corner of the universe by ourselves, when the prospect of other life on other planets in different galaxies are extremely abundant, so that we can't communicate with life in any other the other 200,000 galaxies.

I placed this in the Religious forums because it is often a claimed philosphy backed or provoked by religious viewpoints.

Excellent forum topic!

I look forward to this discussion. As a former Catholic, sometimes agnostic, sometimes wanna-be mystic, I've been all over the map on the question.
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.* And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." Barry Goldwater
*Except in a democracy it might lose you an election.

http://unitedwegovern.org...
proglib
Posts: 391
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12/11/2012 3:05:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:00:01 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:53:32 PM, UltimateSkeptic wrote:
Does it bother anyone else when they hear this being said?

I never understood that everything happens for a reason, especially saying it at the face of the random world we live in. There is no reason children die of disease or starve to death, that some men torture or kill on massive scales, that women are raped, that we live on a planet that doesn't support our life on 70% of its surface, that our planet is the only planet in our solar system that supports our life, or that we are placed in this tiny corner of the universe by ourselves, when the prospect of other life on other planets in different galaxies are extremely abundant, so that we can't communicate with life in any other the other 200,000 galaxies.

I placed this in the Religious forums because it is often a claimed philosphy backed or provoked by religious viewpoints.

It does; to glorify His holy name! If I say to you "don't go in that room there's a wild animal in there" and you say "yeah, right" and go in and get torn to pieces, then I am proved good and right..

God said "do not eat that fruit"

The consequence of that rebellion is all the evil we see in the world, hence glorifying His righteous.

Great answer for those brought up in your tradition. I won't question that you "know" this to be true in some religious sense.

What answer do you have for those outside your tradition, who say "why should I believe that what you say is true?"
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.* And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." Barry Goldwater
*Except in a democracy it might lose you an election.

http://unitedwegovern.org...
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/11/2012 3:09:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:53:32 PM, UltimateSkeptic wrote:
Does it bother anyone else when they hear this being said?

No, actually, it doesn't at all. I consider it entirely factual.

I never understood that everything happens for a reason, especially saying it at the face of the random world we live in.

That's an interesting statement. The framework that we've understood to manifest reality is, indeed, random to an extent. However, the social paradigm that collectively drives the lives of humanity is quite volitional and meticulously manufactured.

There is no reason children die of disease or starve to death

Of course there is. People kill them, deny them medical treatment, or deny them food. It's as simple as that.

that some men torture or kill on massive scales

Of course there is. Because they chose to.

that women are raped

Of course there is. It's because someone raped them.

that we live on a planet that doesn't support our life on 70% of its surface,

You are terribly mistaken, even if you're referring exclusively to humanity, but especially if you're referring to life in general. You do realize that the First World primarily inhabits some of the least habitable places?

Unless, of course (lol), you're talking about the ocean, which, biologically speaking, is the only reason we're here in the first place.

that our planet is the only planet in our solar system that supports our life

We're not entirely sure of that either, especially if you take moons into consideration; nonetheless, this is one of the more distinctly explainable items on your list.

or that we are placed in this tiny corner of the universe by ourselves

The animal kingdom is pretty damned massive and diverse. I might add that we don't seem to really want the company.

when the prospect of other life on other planets in different galaxies are extremely abundant, so that we can't communicate with life in any other the other 200,000 galaxies.

You consider the limitations of humanity inexplicable? 150 years ago, humanity couldn't comprehend the internal combustion engines some poorly-performing high school students make a career from these days.

I placed this in the Religious forums because it is often a claimed philosphy backed or provoked by religious viewpoints.

I'm not sure what you mean, here. Nothing you presented was random. It was, instead, a lament of the dissatisfaction you seem to have with the inherent attributes of humanity's collective persona.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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12/11/2012 5:41:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:53:32 PM, UltimateSkeptic wrote:
Does it bother anyone else when they hear this being said?

I never understood that everything happens for a reason, especially saying it at the face of the random world we live in. There is no reason children die of disease or starve to death, that some men torture or kill on massive scales, that women are raped, that we live on a planet that doesn't support our life on 70% of its surface, that our planet is the only planet in our solar system that supports our life, or that we are placed in this tiny corner of the universe by ourselves, when the prospect of other life on other planets in different galaxies are extremely abundant, so that we can't communicate with life in any other the other 200,000 galaxies.

I placed this in the Religious forums because it is often a claimed philosphy backed or provoked by religious viewpoints.

It used to bother me. It doesn't bother me anymore.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
iamnotwhoiam
Posts: 171
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12/11/2012 5:56:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:53:32 PM, UltimateSkeptic wrote:
Does it bother anyone else when they hear this being said?

I never understood that everything happens for a reason, especially saying it at the face of the random world we live in. There is no reason children die of disease or starve to death, that some men torture or kill on massive scales, that women are raped, that we live on a planet that doesn't support our life on 70% of its surface, that our planet is the only planet in our solar system that supports our life, or that we are placed in this tiny corner of the universe by ourselves, when the prospect of other life on other planets in different galaxies are extremely abundant, so that we can't communicate with life in any other the other 200,000 galaxies.

I placed this in the Religious forums because it is often a claimed philosphy backed or provoked by religious viewpoints.

Many people aren't religious where I live, but a significant proportion of them hold onto a belief in a cosmic order. This saying is very common. People want to overcome upsetting events. There is nothing to hold onto to overcome the pitiless and senseless, so people invent. It is understandable.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/11/2012 6:00:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 5:56:14 PM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:53:32 PM, UltimateSkeptic wrote:
Does it bother anyone else when they hear this being said?

I never understood that everything happens for a reason, especially saying it at the face of the random world we live in. There is no reason children die of disease or starve to death, that some men torture or kill on massive scales, that women are raped, that we live on a planet that doesn't support our life on 70% of its surface, that our planet is the only planet in our solar system that supports our life, or that we are placed in this tiny corner of the universe by ourselves, when the prospect of other life on other planets in different galaxies are extremely abundant, so that we can't communicate with life in any other the other 200,000 galaxies.

I placed this in the Religious forums because it is often a claimed philosphy backed or provoked by religious viewpoints.

Many people aren't religious where I live, but a significant proportion of them hold onto a belief in a cosmic order. This saying is very common. People want to overcome upsetting events. There is nothing to hold onto to overcome the pitiless and senseless, so people invent. It is understandable.

Indeed... when this statement is made from a religious vantage, it's most often to indicate as ridiculously unfair as things seem to be, it actually is fair in some incomprehensible way, and this is rationalized by taking control/accountability/attribution away from people and putting it in the hands of a given religious focus.

In that context, it's only meant to serve as positive reinforcement, because the underlying truth from which it's trying to detract is that people are seriously fvcked up and there's currently nothing that we know of in the universe to stop us.
UltimateSkeptic
Posts: 23
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12/11/2012 6:02:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Daniel Christopher Blowes-
God left our fate up to 2 horny teenagers? That's some intelligent design.... I'm joking, but if you're making a statement that Adam & Eve were to be taken as actual historical people, I'd like some clarification on that. I don't believe it, but I'm surely open to anything that can be proven true!

Proglib- I'm former Catholic as well! lol

Ren- Yes, you can go on a sentence by sentence basis and say that things happen because someone did them, but you know (as well as I do) that it doesn't shed any light on the topic at hand. I'm not looking for cause and effect, I'm meaning to discuss the reason behind the cause-- to which I say there isn't one.

Philochristos- I look forward to the day that someone will say it to me and I won't look at them as if they are gravely mistaken.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/11/2012 6:03:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
...but, the point of my indicating that everything does happen for a reason is that if one is going to be bold enough to be iconoclastic or atheistic, then he or she must also be brave enough to accept that they are in league with the most terrible monsters ever conceived, and not only is that how it is, but that is how it will remain.

Nietzsche, for example, died alone, depressed, and insane.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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12/11/2012 6:19:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 6:02:01 PM, UltimateSkeptic wrote:
Philochristos- I look forward to the day that someone will say it to me and I won't look at them as if they are gravely mistaken.

If you don't believe in anything like a god, it would be crazy to think everything reason.

Of course, that depends on what you mean by "reason." A reason could come in the form of a purpose, or it could come in the form of a cause. According to the Principle of Sufficient Reason (which is defended by quite a few professional philosophers)[1], everything does have a reason. But obviously if there's no god, then not everything has a purpose. A purpose can only be had by sentient beings, and there are plenty of things going on in the universe that sentient beings have nothing to do with.

If you believe in God, it still could be that not everything has a purpose. It all depends on what you believe about God. I was persuaded several years ago that God orchestrates everything that happens in the world. It's all like a big story that he wrote. This is what Calvinists refer to as "the sovereignty of God."[2] Non-Calvinist Christians believe in sovereignty, too, but they usually mean something different by it. If the Calvinist view of God's sovereignty is true, then there is a purpose in everything, which means there is a reason for everything.

[1] Alexander Pruss, for example. http://www.amazon.com...

[2] http://www.amazon.com...
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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12/11/2012 6:19:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If you don't believe in anything like a god, it would be crazy to think everything reason.

I mean, "If you don't believe in anything like a god, it would be crazy to think everything has a reason."
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/11/2012 6:31:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 6:31:25 PM, Wnope wrote:
Everything happens for a reason.

It's just not always a particularly pleasant one.
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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12/11/2012 6:39:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It doesn't bother me so much as produce an almost automated chuckle, grin, or "Get a load of this guy" nudge to my neighbor.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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proglib
Posts: 391
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12/11/2012 10:18:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Please forgive me a LMFAO!

I had no idea DDO would be more fun than a barrel of monkeys, full of fish to shoot at. (Terrible mixed metaphor, and I would only shoot at the fish.:)

Did someone really say that not believing in God put one "in league with monsters?"

Generalize much?

Let's see if we can review the logic:

X believes (or doesn't) A.
Y believes the same as X.
Y does C, which makes Y a bad person, in fact a monster.
THEREFORE, X is in league with a monster

Wonderful reasoning! :D)

Perhaps we can spread this type of reasoning beyond atheists and the monsters the writer had in mind.

St. Paul (or St. [pick a Christian name]) believed in Jesus.
Tomas de Torquemada believed in Jesus.
Tomas de Torquemada had people tortured, and could fairly be called a monster.
St. Paul then would be said to be in league with monsters.

FUN! Try it yourself.

Another way to play this game is to substitute variables differently.

Let's say the belief is "the earth travels around the sun."

The writer of this ridiculous argument believes that the earth travels around the sun.
Pol Pot believed that the earth travels around the sun.
Pol Pot was instrumental in the torture and murder of tens of thousands (millions?) of people, and could fairly be called a monster.

THEREFORE, the writer of this ridiculous argument is in league with a monster.

People, please.
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.* And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." Barry Goldwater
*Except in a democracy it might lose you an election.

http://unitedwegovern.org...
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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12/11/2012 10:36:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:53:32 PM, UltimateSkeptic wrote:
Does it bother anyone else when they hear this being said?

I never understood that everything happens for a reason, especially saying it at the face of the random world we live in. There is no reason children die of disease or starve to death, that some men torture or kill on massive scales, that women are raped, that we live on a planet that doesn't support our life on 70% of its surface, that our planet is the only planet in our solar system that supports our life, or that we are placed in this tiny corner of the universe by ourselves, when the prospect of other life on other planets in different galaxies are extremely abundant, so that we can't communicate with life in any other the other 200,000 galaxies.

I placed this in the Religious forums because it is often a claimed philosphy backed or provoked by religious viewpoints.

Yes it bothers me.

Usually what is mean't is something like everything happens for an INTENDED reason. That is to say there is a plan, usually a divine plan.

Suffice to say that is highly questionable assertion.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
DakotaKrafick
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12/11/2012 11:23:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:05:29 PM, proglib wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:00:01 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:53:32 PM, UltimateSkeptic wrote:
Does it bother anyone else when they hear this being said?

I never understood that everything happens for a reason, especially saying it at the face of the random world we live in. There is no reason children die of disease or starve to death, that some men torture or kill on massive scales, that women are raped, that we live on a planet that doesn't support our life on 70% of its surface, that our planet is the only planet in our solar system that supports our life, or that we are placed in this tiny corner of the universe by ourselves, when the prospect of other life on other planets in different galaxies are extremely abundant, so that we can't communicate with life in any other the other 200,000 galaxies.

I placed this in the Religious forums because it is often a claimed philosphy backed or provoked by religious viewpoints.

It does; to glorify His holy name! If I say to you "don't go in that room there's a wild animal in there" and you say "yeah, right" and go in and get torn to pieces, then I am proved good and right..

God said "do not eat that fruit"

The consequence of that rebellion is all the evil we see in the world, hence glorifying His righteous.

Great answer for those brought up in your tradition.

Why do you presume he was raised with any specific tradition?
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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12/12/2012 12:21:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Do you wanna-be believers believe your various god(s) inflict diseases and ailments etc. on mankind to ' teach them valuable lessons? '.
Composer
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12/12/2012 12:31:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:00:01 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
God said "do not eat that fruit"

1. It also is claimed to have said " the Day you do you will surely die! ". (Gen. 2:18) Story book

But man soon observed the Serpent being Truthful & smarter than Story book god, that recognised this god was a habitual liar! For they DID NOT die that Day as threatened, neither Spiritually nor literally!

At 12/11/2012 3:00:01 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote
The consequence of that rebellion is all the evil we see in the world, hence glorifying His righteous.

2. Deut. 24:16 & Ezek. 18:20 refute your claim!

3. Also Story book god takes the credit for having Created everything and it was already on the Tree before man partook of it so it was Story book god that created and introduced evil NOT mankind!

You lose!
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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12/12/2012 1:38:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:05:29 PM, proglib wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:00:01 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:53:32 PM, UltimateSkeptic wrote:
Does it bother anyone else when they hear this being said?

I never understood that everything happens for a reason, especially saying it at the face of the random world we live in. There is no reason children die of disease or starve to death, that some men torture or kill on massive scales, that women are raped, that we live on a planet that doesn't support our life on 70% of its surface, that our planet is the only planet in our solar system that supports our life, or that we are placed in this tiny corner of the universe by ourselves, when the prospect of other life on other planets in different galaxies are extremely abundant, so that we can't communicate with life in any other the other 200,000 galaxies.

I placed this in the Religious forums because it is often a claimed philosphy backed or provoked by religious viewpoints.

It does; to glorify His holy name! If I say to you "don't go in that room there's a wild animal in there" and you say "yeah, right" and go in and get torn to pieces, then I am proved good and right..

God said "do not eat that fruit"

The consequence of that rebellion is all the evil we see in the world, hence glorifying His righteous.

Great answer for those brought up in your tradition. I won't question that you "know" this to be true in some religious sense.

What answer do you have for those outside your tradition, who say "why should I believe that what you say is true?"

Ultimately, there is no comfort outside of Christian grace..
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/12/2012 3:04:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 10:18:11 PM, proglib wrote:
Please forgive me a LMFAO!

I had no idea DDO would be more fun than a barrel of monkeys, full of fish to shoot at. (Terrible mixed metaphor, and I would only shoot at the fish.:)

Did someone really say that not believing in God put one "in league with monsters?"

Generalize much?

Let's see if we can review the logic:

X believes (or doesn't) A.
Y believes the same as X.
Y does C, which makes Y a bad person, in fact a monster.
THEREFORE, X is in league with a monster

Wonderful reasoning! :D)

Perhaps we can spread this type of reasoning beyond atheists and the monsters the writer had in mind.

St. Paul (or St. [pick a Christian name]) believed in Jesus.
Tomas de Torquemada believed in Jesus.
Tomas de Torquemada had people tortured, and could fairly be called a monster.
St. Paul then would be said to be in league with monsters.

FUN! Try it yourself.

Another way to play this game is to substitute variables differently.

Let's say the belief is "the earth travels around the sun."

The writer of this ridiculous argument believes that the earth travels around the sun.
Pol Pot believed that the earth travels around the sun.
Pol Pot was instrumental in the torture and murder of tens of thousands (millions?) of people, and could fairly be called a monster.

THEREFORE, the writer of this ridiculous argument is in league with a monster.

People, please.

I almost don't want to correct you, considering how much fun you're having over there all by yourself, but I was actually asserting that humanity is monstrous one way or another. God, along with some presupposition of fairness that He should purportedly provide, is meant to assuage this with the statement, "everything happens for a reason."

...or, are you contending that humanity is full of righteous, considerate, selfless people?

Oh, naivete...
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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12/12/2012 3:25:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:53:32 PM, UltimateSkeptic wrote:
Does it bother anyone else when they hear this being said?

I never understood that everything happens for a reason, especially saying it at the face of the random world we live in. There is no reason children die of disease or starve to death, that some men torture or kill on massive scales, that women are raped, that we live on a planet that doesn't support our life on 70% of its surface, that our planet is the only planet in our solar system that supports our life, or that we are placed in this tiny corner of the universe by ourselves, when the prospect of other life on other planets in different galaxies are extremely abundant, so that we can't communicate with life in any other the other 200,000 galaxies.

I placed this in the Religious forums because it is often a claimed philosphy backed or provoked by religious viewpoints.

Why do you presume that there can't be a reason, just because you don't know it?
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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12/12/2012 3:32:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:05:29 PM, proglib wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:00:01 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:53:32 PM, UltimateSkeptic wrote:
Does it bother anyone else when they hear this being said?

I never understood that everything happens for a reason, especially saying it at the face of the random world we live in. There is no reason children die of disease or starve to death, that some men torture or kill on massive scales, that women are raped, that we live on a planet that doesn't support our life on 70% of its surface, that our planet is the only planet in our solar system that supports our life, or that we are placed in this tiny corner of the universe by ourselves, when the prospect of other life on other planets in different galaxies are extremely abundant, so that we can't communicate with life in any other the other 200,000 galaxies.

I placed this in the Religious forums because it is often a claimed philosophy backed or provoked by religious viewpoints.

It does; to glorify His holy name! If I say to you "don't go in that room there's a wild animal in there" and you say "yeah, right" and go in and get torn to pieces, then I am proved good and right..

God said "do not eat that fruit"

The consequence of that rebellion is all the evil we see in the world, hence glorifying His righteous.

Great answer for those brought up in your tradition. I won't question that you "know" this to be true in some religious sense.

What answer do you have for those outside your tradition, who say "why should I believe that what you say is true?"

That's a separate question.

Why do you believe anything is true?
What is your criteria for deciding truth?
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
proglib
Posts: 391
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12/12/2012 4:30:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/12/2012 3:04:49 AM, Ren wrote:
At 12/11/2012 10:18:11 PM, proglib wrote:
Please forgive me a LMFAO!

I had no idea DDO would be more fun than a barrel of monkeys, full of fish to shoot at. (Terrible mixed metaphor, and I would only shoot at the fish.:)

Did someone really say that not believing in God put one "in league with monsters?"

Generalize much?

Let's see if we can review the logic:

X believes (or doesn't) A.
Y believes the same as X.
Y does C, which makes Y a bad person, in fact a monster.
THEREFORE, X is in league with a monster

Wonderful reasoning! :D)

Perhaps we can spread this type of reasoning beyond atheists and the monsters the writer had in mind.

St. Paul (or St. [pick a Christian name]) believed in Jesus.
Tomas de Torquemada believed in Jesus.
Tomas de Torquemada had people tortured, and could fairly be called a monster.
St. Paul then would be said to be in league with monsters.

FUN! Try it yourself.

Another way to play this game is to substitute variables differently.

Let's say the belief is "the earth travels around the sun."

The writer of this ridiculous argument believes that the earth travels around the sun.
Pol Pot believed that the earth travels around the sun.
Pol Pot was instrumental in the torture and murder of tens of thousands (millions?) of people, and could fairly be called a monster.

THEREFORE, the writer of this ridiculous argument is in league with a monster.

People, please.

I almost don't want to correct you, considering how much fun you're having over there all by yourself, but I was actually asserting that humanity is monstrous one way or another. God, along with some presupposition of fairness that He should purportedly provide, is meant to assuage this with the statement, "everything happens for a reason."

...or, are you contending that humanity is full of righteous, considerate, selfless people?

Oh, naivete...

Excellent answer.

Yes, I was having fun with my straw man. Now, you've taken him away.
( LOL

My apologies for misreading your point. I wish I were as naive, as your rhetorical question implies. Been a long time since I wore that color sun glasses. :)
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.* And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." Barry Goldwater
*Except in a democracy it might lose you an election.

http://unitedwegovern.org...
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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12/12/2012 4:32:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
To see ex-Catholics always depresses me. There seems to be a disproportionate amount of them, unfortunately.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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12/12/2012 4:44:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/12/2012 4:32:46 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
To see ex-Catholics always depresses me. There seems to be a disproportionate amount of them, unfortunately.

I think its wonderful to see your catholic Cult in rapid decline and ' the reason ' is it has an awful lot to do with those like vindicated moi!

xtianity is also in rapid decline many thanks to moi for the same / similar reason - e.g. (Source: http://secularist10.hubpages.com...)

heaven, I'm in heaven . . . . . (So to metaph' speak LOL!)
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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12/12/2012 4:46:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/12/2012 4:44:02 AM, Composer wrote:
At 12/12/2012 4:32:46 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
To see ex-Catholics always depresses me. There seems to be a disproportionate amount of them, unfortunately.

I think its wonderful to see your catholic Cult in rapid decline and ' the reason ' is it has an awful lot to do with those like vindicated moi!

xtianity is also in rapid decline many thanks to moi for the same / similar reason - e.g. (Source: http://secularist10.hubpages.com...)

heaven, I'm in heaven . . . . . (So to metaph' speak LOL!)

lol, that's hilarious. You think you're taking down Christianity single-handedly?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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12/12/2012 4:56:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/12/2012 4:46:41 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 12/12/2012 4:44:02 AM, Composer wrote:
At 12/12/2012 4:32:46 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
To see ex-Catholics always depresses me. There seems to be a disproportionate amount of them, unfortunately.

I think its wonderful to see your catholic Cult in rapid decline and ' the reason ' is it has an awful lot to do with those like vindicated moi!

xtianity is also in rapid decline many thanks to moi for the same / similar reason - e.g. (Source: http://secularist10.hubpages.com...)

heaven, I'm in heaven . . . . . (So to metaph' speak LOL!)

lol, that's hilarious. You think you're taking down Christianity single-handedly?

I see the successful fruits of my labours unfold still in even greater numbers that even YOU now acknowlegde, LOL!

" heaven, I'm in heaven " (So to metaph' speak!)

Your mentor & personal successful literal Saviour, moi!

Me Composer the ongoing successful & vindicated Cult buster!
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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12/12/2012 4:58:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/12/2012 4:56:38 AM, Composer wrote:
At 12/12/2012 4:46:41 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 12/12/2012 4:44:02 AM, Composer wrote:
At 12/12/2012 4:32:46 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
To see ex-Catholics always depresses me. There seems to be a disproportionate amount of them, unfortunately.

I think its wonderful to see your catholic Cult in rapid decline and ' the reason ' is it has an awful lot to do with those like vindicated moi!

xtianity is also in rapid decline many thanks to moi for the same / similar reason - e.g. (Source: http://secularist10.hubpages.com...)

heaven, I'm in heaven . . . . . (So to metaph' speak LOL!)

lol, that's hilarious. You think you're taking down Christianity single-handedly?

I see the successful fruits of my labours unfold still in even greater numbers that even YOU now acknowlegde, LOL!

" heaven, I'm in heaven " (So to metaph' speak!)

Your mentor & personal successful literal Saviour, moi!

Me Composer the ongoing successful & vindicated Cult buster!

I'm not acknowledging that it's because of your labours at all. In fact, you're one of the best arguments for theism.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13