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Muslims, what are your thoughts on this?

SamJoelle
Posts: 48
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12/15/2012 9:40:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hello, I probably won't reply a lot to these comments I just want to see what you all think about it, I will be doing some copy&pasting & i will be using references out of the Old Testament & some out of the new.
the prophet of Islam, Muhammad, did not pass God's test for a prophet. Deuteronomy 18:21-22 tells us that God will authenticate those He sends as a prophet by having them perform signs. Muhammad gave no sign as required by God.
Notice the difference in the Muslim claims and the evidence put forward by the Hebrew writer in Hebrews 2:3-4,

"How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?"

Deuteronomy 13:1-4, 1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

Now consider just one principle that is set forth in the New Testament with the principles set forth in the Qur"an.

The New Testament, Matthew 5:44, But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

The Qur"an, Qur"an 61, the Ranks, Ayah 4. Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way in ranks as if they were a firm and compact wall

The Qur"an, Qur"an 2, The Cow, Al Baqarah Ayah 190. And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. 191. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

* note * "Nasikh" is the concept that newer revelation cancels older revelation. The Koran, like the Bible, has an "old testament", that is abolished and not used as law and a "new testament", that is used by Muslims today. The abolished sections of the Koran were written in Medina when Muhammad faced his disciples to pray towards Jerusalem in an effort to sway the Jews to convert to Islam. It was during this time Muhammad taught toleration towards non-Muslims. When the Jews rightly told Muhammad to take a hike, he killed them and as a "snubbed and jilted lover" suddenly instructed his followers to forget praying towards Jerusalem and start praying towards Mecca. During the Medina phase, Muhammad taught toleration towards non-Muslims. During the Meccan phase, Muhammad started teaching "death to non-Muslims". Muslim leaders (Imams) deliberately quote from the abolished "Media" sections of the Koran when, for a short time, Muhammad preached tolerance, in a ploy to convert the Jews. These Imams know that the later sections of the Koran when Muhammad was at Mecca, preach death to non-Muslims.

Islam cannot be from God because its appeal is to man's lower nature rather than his higher nature. Compare the Biblical appeal of heaven to the Quranic appeal of heaven.

The Biblical Appeal

Matthew 5:10-12, 10. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Peter 1:3-4, 3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Mark 12:24-25, 24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? 25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Revelation 7:9-17, 9. After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

The Qur'an makes a large portion of its appeal to the fleshly appetites and sensibilities of man.

Qur"an 37: 40. But the sincere (and devoted) Servants of Allah, 41. For them is a Sustenance Determined, 42. Fruits (Delights) and they (Shall enjoy) honor and dignity, 43. In Gardens of Felicity, 44. Facing each other On Thrones (of dignity): 45. Round will be passed To them a Cup From a clear flowing fountain, 46. Crystal white, of a taste Delicious to those Who drink (thereof), 47. Free from headiness; Nor will they suffer Intoxication there from. 48. And beside them will be Chaste women, restraining Their glances, with big eyes (Of wonder and beauty) 49. As if they were (Delicate) eggs closely guarded.

Qur"an 4:57. But those who believe And do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, With rivers flowing beneath, - Their eternal home; Therein shall they have Companions [wives, NR] pure and holy; We shall admit them To shades, cool and ever deepening.
Qur"an 44:51. As to the Righteous (They will be) in A position of Security, 52. Among Gardens and Springs; 53. Dressed in fine silk And in rich brocade, They will face each other; 54. So; and We shall Join them to Companions With beautiful big And lustrous eyes. 55. There can they call For There can they call For every kind of fruit In peace and security; 56. Nor will they there Taste Death, except the first Death: and He will preserve Them from the Penalty Of the Blazing Fire.

Which makes its appeal to the higher nature of man? The Bible does.
Which is more likely to be from God - that which appeals to man"s higher nature, or that which appeals to his baser nature? The Bible is more likely to be from God than the Qur'an because its appeal is to man"s higher nature, while the appeal of the Qur'an is to man's
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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12/15/2012 10:02:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Wow, so much BS came out in such a short period of time.
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/15/2012 10:13:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
For every supposed violent verse from the Quran that you post, I can post one from the Bible and add one more on top. Don't try to dispute that.

The Quran never makes a general command to Muslims in terms of fighting. It doesn't say "Fight the disbelievers anytime, anywhere" -- The verses were revealed during specific events, such as when Muslims were under heavy oppression by Pagans. If you read Islamic history, you'd realize the atrocities committed against Muslims.

[Quran 4:75] "Why should you not fight in God's cause and for those oppressed men, women, and children who cry out, 'Lord, rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors! By your grace, give us a protector and helper'."

Fighting is prescribed for defense against aggression. And may I remind you, Ma'am, that while the Quran talks about battles, it restricts them to fighting soldiers. Your holy book goes beyond all limits, commanding rape, murder of innocents (including children), burning crops, etc. Not so heavenly, is it?
SamJoelle
Posts: 48
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12/15/2012 10:16:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/15/2012 10:13:36 PM, Mirza wrote:
For every supposed violent verse from the Quran that you post, I can post one from the Bible and add one more on top. Don't try to dispute that.

The Quran never makes a general command to Muslims in terms of fighting. It doesn't say "Fight the disbelievers anytime, anywhere" -- The verses were revealed during specific events, such as when Muslims were under heavy oppression by Pagans. If you read Islamic history, you'd realize the atrocities committed against Muslims.

[Quran 4:75] "Why should you not fight in God's cause and for those oppressed men, women, and children who cry out, 'Lord, rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors! By your grace, give us a protector and helper'."

Fighting is prescribed for defense against aggression. And may I remind you, Ma'am, that while the Quran talks about battles, it restricts them to fighting soldiers. Your holy book goes beyond all limits, commanding rape, murder of innocents (including children), burning crops, etc. Not so heavenly, is it?

I was aware when i posted this that i was going to bet biasm, My question was not directed towards the quarn really, it was directed to How did muhammed prove that he was a prophet of God instead of just saying he was? Now with that being said, Sir.. I will refrain from commenting because I am not looking for a debate really, just peoples opinions.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/15/2012 10:33:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/15/2012 10:16:38 PM, SamJoelle wrote:
How did muhammed prove that he was a prophet of God instead of just saying he was?
If you don't want a lengthy discussion... --> http://www.hamzatzortzis.com...
SamJoelle
Posts: 48
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12/15/2012 10:37:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/15/2012 10:33:29 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/15/2012 10:16:38 PM, SamJoelle wrote:
How did muhammed prove that he was a prophet of God instead of just saying he was?
If you don't want a lengthy discussion... --> http://www.hamzatzortzis.com...

I find it ironic kinda how I actually tried to watch that and it wouldn't load lol.
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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12/16/2012 3:33:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/15/2012 9:40:00 PM, SamJoelle wrote:
Hello, I probably won't reply a lot to these comments I just want to see what you all think about it, I will be doing some copy&pasting & i will be using references out of the Old Testament & some out of the new.
the prophet of Islam, Muhammad, did not pass God's test for a prophet. Deuteronomy 18:21-22 tells us that God will authenticate those He sends as a prophet by having them perform signs. Muhammad gave no sign as required by God.
Notice the difference in the Muslim claims and the evidence put forward by the Hebrew writer in Hebrews 2:3-4,

"How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?"

Deuteronomy 13:1-4, 1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

Now consider just one principle that is set forth in the New Testament with the principles set forth in the Qur"an.

The New Testament, Matthew 5:44, But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

The Qur"an, Qur"an 61, the Ranks, Ayah 4. Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way in ranks as if they were a firm and compact wall

The Qur"an, Qur"an 2, The Cow, Al Baqarah Ayah 190. And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. 191. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

* note * "Nasikh" is the concept that newer revelation cancels older revelation. The Koran, like the Bible, has an "old testament", that is abolished and not used as law and a "new testament", that is used by Muslims today. The abolished sections of the Koran were written in Medina when Muhammad faced his disciples to pray towards Jerusalem in an effort to sway the Jews to convert to Islam. It was during this time Muhammad taught toleration towards non-Muslims. When the Jews rightly told Muhammad to take a hike, he killed them and as a "snubbed and jilted lover" suddenly instructed his followers to forget praying towards Jerusalem and start praying towards Mecca. During the Medina phase, Muhammad taught toleration towards non-Muslims. During the Meccan phase, Muhammad started teaching "death to non-Muslims". Muslim leaders (Imams) deliberately quote from the abolished "Media" sections of the Koran when, for a short time, Muhammad preached tolerance, in a ploy to convert the Jews. These Imams know that the later sections of the Koran when Muhammad was at Mecca, preach death to non-Muslims.

Islam cannot be from God because its appeal is to man's lower nature rather than his higher nature. Compare the Biblical appeal of heaven to the Quranic appeal of heaven.

The Biblical Appeal

Matthew 5:10-12, 10. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Peter 1:3-4, 3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Mark 12:24-25, 24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? 25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Revelation 7:9-17, 9. After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

The Qur'an makes a large portion of its appeal to the fleshly appetites and sensibilities of man.

Qur"an 37: 40. But the sincere (and devoted) Servants of Allah, 41. For them is a Sustenance Determined, 42. Fruits (Delights) and they (Shall enjoy) honor and dignity, 43. In Gardens of Felicity, 44. Facing each other On Thrones (of dignity): 45. Round will be passed To them a Cup From a clear flowing fountain, 46. Crystal white, of a taste Delicious to those Who drink (thereof), 47. Free from headiness; Nor will they suffer Intoxication there from. 48. And beside them will be Chaste women, restraining Their glances, with big eyes (Of wonder and beauty) 49. As if they were (Delicate) eggs closely guarded.

Qur"an 4:57. But those who believe And do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, With rivers flowing beneath, - Their eternal home; Therein shall they have Companions [wives, NR] pure and holy; We shall admit them To shades, cool and ever deepening.
Qur"an 44:51. As to the Righteous (They will be) in A position of

Hi Sam, welcome to DDO, lil' tip; most people here have fairly short attention spans, try to stick to one idea at a time and condense your post as much as possible..
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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12/16/2012 6:05:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/15/2012 10:16:38 PM, SamJoelle wrote:

I was aware when i posted this that i was going to bet biasm, My question was not directed towards the quarn really, it was directed to How did muhammed prove that he was a prophet of God instead of just saying he was? Now with that being said, Sir.. I will refrain from commenting because I am not looking for a debate really, just peoples opinions.

Response: Muhammad(saw) did perform miracles, yet the greatest miracle of all is the Qur'an, which can be proven as a miracle to this day. It is a standing challenge to produce something like the Qur'an even to this day, which no one can do. What is that challeneg?

"It is humanly impossible for a person/s to inspire enough people to follow him/her to conquer a nation by using humanmande speech/literature that goes against the likes and beliefs of those people."

This is the miracle of Muhammad. For the challenge proves that it is humanly impossible to use any speech or literature that goes against the majority and is invented by a person/s, to inspire enough followers amongst them to conquer a nation. The skeptic still disagrees? Then take the challenge and prove differently. Try using a speech or literature that does not agree with the likes of a majority of people that is an invention by a person/s. Then use that very same speech to inspire them to conquer a nation and see what happens. The challenge can even be simplified by asking a skeptic to just conquer the street that he or she lives on and see what happens. Yet the person will fail and fail miserably. No person will come close to achieving the challenge. Any individual, when taking the challenge, will have a first-hand eyewitness account from experience and observation that such an act is humanly impossible and that is when the person will learn the miracle of Muhammad. Why? The reason is because Muhammad used the Qur'an to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation in the same fashion. So if it is humanly impossible to use speech or literature that goes against the likes of the masses to inspire them to follow a person/s and conquer a nation, yet Muhammad used the Qur'an to do just that, then what does that mean? That means that the Qur'an that Muhammad used is not the invention of any human but must come from a higher power and authority greater than humans, and that is Allah. Do the skeptics still disagree? Then take the challenge and prove differently. When the challengers fail, because they will, this will help to demonstrate that the Qur"an is of divine origin as proven by the scientific method itself because it provides a hands-on eyewitness account that producing something like the Qur"an is humanly impossible. If you read this, and you yourself disagrees, then take the challenge and prove differently.
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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12/16/2012 7:13:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/16/2012 6:05:43 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/15/2012 10:16:38 PM, SamJoelle wrote:

I was aware when i posted this that i was going to bet biasm, My question was not directed towards the quarn really, it was directed to How did muhammed prove that he was a prophet of God instead of just saying he was? Now with that being said, Sir.. I will refrain from commenting because I am not looking for a debate really, just peoples opinions.

Response: Muhammad(saw) did perform miracles, yet the greatest miracle of all is the Qur'an, which can be proven as a miracle to this day. It is a standing challenge to produce something like the Qur'an even to this day, which no one can do. What is that challeneg?

"It is humanly impossible for a person/s to inspire enough people to follow him/her to conquer a nation by using humanmande speech/literature that goes against the likes and beliefs of those people."

This is the miracle of Muhammad. For the challenge proves that it is humanly impossible to use any speech or literature that goes against the majority and is invented by a person/s, to inspire enough followers amongst them to conquer a nation. The skeptic still disagrees? Then take the challenge and prove differently. Try using a speech or literature that does not agree with the likes of a majority of people that is an invention by a person/s. Then use that very same speech to inspire them to conquer a nation and see what happens. The challenge can even be simplified by asking a skeptic to just conquer the street that he or she lives on and see what happens. Yet the person will fail and fail miserably. No person will come close to achieving the challenge. Any individual, when taking the challenge, will have a first-hand eyewitness account from experience and observation that such an act is humanly impossible and that is when the person will learn the miracle of Muhammad. Why? The reason is because Muhammad used the Qur'an to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation in the same fashion. So if it is humanly impossible to use speech or literature that goes against the likes of the masses to inspire them to follow a person/s and conquer a nation, yet Muhammad used the Qur'an to do just that, then what does that mean? That means that the Qur'an that Muhammad used is not the invention of any human but must come from a higher power and authority greater than humans, and that is Allah. Do the skeptics still disagree? Then take the challenge and prove differently. When the challengers fail, because they will, this will help to demonstrate that the Qur"an is of divine origin as proven by the scientific method itself because it provides a hands-on eyewitness account that producing something like the Qur"an is humanly impossible. If you read this, and you yourself disagrees, then take the challenge and prove differently.

Er.. Hitler, Stalin, khan, Napoleon etc etc..
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
Fatihah
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12/16/2012 7:42:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/16/2012 7:13:29 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
.

Er.. Hitler, Stalin, khan, Napoleon etc etc..

Response: Err, not a single source from anywhere states that Hitler, Stalin, Khan, Napoleon, etc., had folowers who conquered a nation because they were inspired by their speech, nor can you quote and prove otherwise.

Furthermore, the challenge is to do it yourself, which you did not.

Lastly, such evidence that they did achieve the act is based on because a book says so, making it hearsay. The Qur"an challenge shows that the act is impossible by requiring you to do the act yourself, thus providing evidence from a hands-on eyewitness account. Hearsay is not more credible than a hands-on eyewitness account. Thus the challenge shows that your alleged historical evidence is false.
DanielChristopherBlowes
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12/16/2012 7:49:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/16/2012 7:42:35 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/16/2012 7:13:29 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
.

Er.. Hitler, Stalin, khan, Napoleon etc etc..

Response: Err, not a single source from anywhere states that Hitler, Stalin, Khan, Napoleon, etc., had folowers who conquered a nation because they were inspired by their speech, nor can you quote and prove otherwise.

Furthermore, the challenge is to do it yourself, which you did not.

Lastly, such evidence that they did achieve the act is based on because a book says so, making it hearsay. The Qur"an challenge shows that the act is impossible by requiring you to do the act yourself, thus providing evidence from a hands-on eyewitness account. Hearsay is not more credible than a hands-on eyewitness account. Thus the challenge shows that your alleged historical evidence is false.

Hitler is famous for his oratory skills, how else did he incite a whole nation? Satan can raise up anyone to take over a country, he does it all the time.

Muhammad was a false prophet who will, like us all, stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
Fatihah
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12/16/2012 7:57:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/16/2012 7:49:51 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:


Hitler is famous for his oratory skills, how else did he incite a whole nation? Satan can raise up anyone to take over a country, he does it all the time.

Muhammad was a false prophet who will, like us all, stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Response: The deluded non-muslim tries to justify his running yet again, but fails to do so. For the challenge clearly states for YOU YOURSELF to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation, or even just the street you live on, by using human-made speech/literatue that goes against the wants of a mass of people, as proof that such an act is humanly possible. So have you conquered a nation? NO. Have you conquered the street you live on? NO. Thus you've done absolutely nothing in answering the challenge and have been dodging it from the beginning. Thus your ducking and dodging to attempt the challenge once again confirms your denial to the fact that the qur'an is the true word of Allah.
DanielChristopherBlowes
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12/16/2012 2:45:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/16/2012 7:57:28 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/16/2012 7:49:51 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:


Hitler is famous for his oratory skills, how else did he incite a whole nation? Satan can raise up anyone to take over a country, he does it all the time.

Muhammad was a false prophet who will, like us all, stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Response: The deluded non-muslim tries to justify his running yet again, but fails to do so. For the challenge clearly states for YOU YOURSELF to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation, or even just the street you live on, by using human-made speech/literatue that goes against the wants of a mass of people, as proof that such an act is humanly possible. So have you conquered a nation? NO. Have you conquered the street you live on? NO. Thus you've done absolutely nothing in answering the challenge and have been dodging it from the beginning. Thus your ducking and dodging to attempt the challenge once again confirms your denial to the fact that the qur'an is the true word of Allah.

I have no desire to, but plenty of bullies/losers like Hitler did it easily..

The Bible is the Word of God.

As it says.. The word became flesh!
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
Dogknox
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12/16/2012 2:56:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/16/2012 7:57:28 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/16/2012 7:49:51 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:


Hitler is famous for his oratory skills, how else did he incite a whole nation? Satan can raise up anyone to take over a country, he does it all the time.

Muhammad was a false prophet who will, like us all, stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Response: The deluded non-muslim tries to justify his running yet again, but fails to do so. For the challenge clearly states for YOU YOURSELF to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation, or even just the street you live on, by using human-made speech/literatue that goes against the wants of a mass of people, as proof that such an act is humanly possible. So have you conquered a nation? NO. Have you conquered the street you live on? NO. Thus you've done absolutely nothing in answering the challenge and have been dodging it from the beginning. Thus your ducking and dodging to attempt the challenge once again confirms your denial to the fact that the qur'an is the true word of Allah.

Fatihah Note.. DanielChristopherBlowes short reply... He posts just for the sake of posting! Truly a TROLL!!
Fatihah
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12/16/2012 3:00:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/16/2012 2:45:37 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:


I have no desire to, but plenty of bullies/losers like Hitler did it easily..

The Bible is the Word of God.

As it says.. The word became flesh!

Response: Yet your ducking and dodging to answer the challenge, along with your inability to quote any source that says Hitler did it proves otherwise. And even if it did, it would be evidence from hearsay, while Qur"an challenge shows that the act is impossible by requiring you to do the act yourself, thus providing evidence from a hands-on eyewitness account. Hearsay is not more credible than a hands-on eyewitness account. Thus the challenge shows that your alleged historical evidence is false, and the Qur'an is the true word of Allah. Debunked as usual.
Fatihah
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12/16/2012 3:01:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/16/2012 2:56:09 PM, Dogknox wrote:


Fatihah Note.. DanielChristopherBlowes short reply... He posts just for the sake of posting! Truly a TROLL!!

Response: Perhaps. You may have a point there.
SamJoelle
Posts: 48
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12/16/2012 4:51:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/16/2012 3:33:52 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 12/15/2012 9:40:00 PM, SamJoelle wrote:
Hello, I probably won't reply a lot to these comments I just want to see what you all think about it, I will be doing some copy&pasting & i will be using references out of the Old Testament & some out of the new.
the prophet of Islam, Muhammad, did not pass God's test for a prophet. Deuteronomy 18:21-22 tells us that God will authenticate those He sends as a prophet by having them perform signs. Muhammad gave no sign as required by God.
Notice the difference in the Muslim claims and the evidence put forward by the Hebrew writer in Hebrews 2:3-4,

"How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?"

Deuteronomy 13:1-4, 1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

Now consider just one principle that is set forth in the New Testament with the principles set forth in the Qur"an.

The New Testament, Matthew 5:44, But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

The Qur"an, Qur"an 61, the Ranks, Ayah 4. Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way in ranks as if they were a firm and compact wall

The Qur"an, Qur"an 2, The Cow, Al Baqarah Ayah 190. And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. 191. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

* note * "Nasikh" is the concept that newer revelation cancels older revelation. The Koran, like the Bible, has an "old testament", that is abolished and not used as law and a "new testament", that is used by Muslims today. The abolished sections of the Koran were written in Medina when Muhammad faced his disciples to pray towards Jerusalem in an effort to sway the Jews to convert to Islam. It was during this time Muhammad taught toleration towards non-Muslims. When the Jews rightly told Muhammad to take a hike, he killed them and as a "snubbed and jilted lover" suddenly instructed his followers to forget praying towards Jerusalem and start praying towards Mecca. During the Medina phase, Muhammad taught toleration towards non-Muslims. During the Meccan phase, Muhammad started teaching "death to non-Muslims". Muslim leaders (Imams) deliberately quote from the abolished "Media" sections of the Koran when, for a short time, Muhammad preached tolerance, in a ploy to convert the Jews. These Imams know that the later sections of the Koran when Muhammad was at Mecca, preach death to non-Muslims.

Islam cannot be from God because its appeal is to man's lower nature rather than his higher nature. Compare the Biblical appeal of heaven to the Quranic appeal of heaven.

The Biblical Appeal

Matthew 5:10-12, 10. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Peter 1:3-4, 3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Mark 12:24-25, 24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? 25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Revelation 7:9-17, 9. After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

The Qur'an makes a large portion of its appeal to the fleshly appetites and sensibilities of man.

Qur"an 37: 40. But the sincere (and devoted) Servants of Allah, 41. For them is a Sustenance Determined, 42. Fruits (Delights) and they (Shall enjoy) honor and dignity, 43. In Gardens of Felicity, 44. Facing each other On Thrones (of dignity): 45. Round will be passed To them a Cup From a clear flowing fountain, 46. Crystal white, of a taste Delicious to those Who drink (thereof), 47. Free from headiness; Nor will they suffer Intoxication there from. 48. And beside them will be Chaste women, restraining Their glances, with big eyes (Of wonder and beauty) 49. As if they were (Delicate) eggs closely guarded.

Qur"an 4:57. But those who believe And do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, With rivers flowing beneath, - Their eternal home; Therein shall they have Companions [wives, NR] pure and holy; We shall admit them To shades, cool and ever deepening.
Qur"an 44:51. As to the Righteous (They will be) in A position of

Hi Sam, welcome to DDO, lil' tip; most people here have fairly short attention spans, try to stick to one idea at a time and condense your post as much as possible..

Hey dude, thanks. Tried my best.. Been on here for quite some time but thank you :P
Dirty.Harry
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12/17/2012 3:59:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/16/2012 6:05:43 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/15/2012 10:16:38 PM, SamJoelle wrote:

I was aware when i posted this that i was going to bet biasm, My question was not directed towards the quarn really, it was directed to How did muhammed prove that he was a prophet of God instead of just saying he was? Now with that being said, Sir.. I will refrain from commenting because I am not looking for a debate really, just peoples opinions.

"It is humanly impossible for a person/s to inspire enough people to follow him/her to conquer a nation by using human made speech/literature that goes against the likes and beliefs of those people."

It is logically absurd too - if people are inspired to follow something then it cannot be against their beliefs when they do follow it - one cannot follow some course of action unless one wants to.

Harry.
Dirty.Harry
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12/17/2012 4:15:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/15/2012 10:16:38 PM, SamJoelle wrote:
At 12/15/2012 10:13:36 PM, Mirza wrote:
For every supposed violent verse from the Quran that you post, I can post one from the Bible and add one more on top. Don't try to dispute that.

The Quran never makes a general command to Muslims in terms of fighting. It doesn't say "Fight the disbelievers anytime, anywhere" -- The verses were revealed during specific events, such as when Muslims were under heavy oppression by Pagans. If you read Islamic history, you'd realize the atrocities committed against Muslims.

[Quran 4:75] "Why should you not fight in God's cause and for those oppressed men, women, and children who cry out, 'Lord, rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors! By your grace, give us a protector and helper'."

Fighting is prescribed for defense against aggression. And may I remind you, Ma'am, that while the Quran talks about battles, it restricts them to fighting soldiers. Your holy book goes beyond all limits, commanding rape, murder of innocents (including children), burning crops, etc. Not so heavenly, is it?

I was aware when i posted this that i was going to bet biasm, My question was not directed towards the quarn really, it was directed to How did muhammed prove that he was a prophet of God instead of just saying he was? Now with that being said, Sir.. I will refrain from commenting because I am not looking for a debate really, just peoples opinions.

The "prophet" Mohamed had an appalling record as a prophet so this shows he really was not a prophet at all.

The Koran claims that the Torah (Hebrew scriptures) is divinely inspired BUT the Torah has this to say about prophets:

"But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. You may say to yourselves, 'How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?' If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him."

Deuteronomy 18:20-22

So if we can show that old moh was a false prophet then the whole ideology falls apart at the seams.

Peruse this when you get some time:

http://www.answering-islam.org...

I'm sure our resident imams here will profer an "explanation" but you be the judge.

The Koran advocates idolatry - the worship of a mere mortal man - Muslims are irrational with respect to Mohamed, he was a man, he died, he was not God yet they revere him as if he were, they will advocate throat cutting for anyone who dares to draw a picture of this long dead mortal from antiquity.

Harry.
Fatihah
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12/17/2012 5:06:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/17/2012 3:59:07 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:

It is logically absurd too - if people are inspired to follow something then it cannot be against their beliefs when they do follow it - one cannot follow some course of action unless one wants to.

Harry.

Response: EXACTLY!!! You just proved my point. You just stated loud and clear, that it's completely illogical, thus the act is impossible. Therefore, your very own logic demonstrates that the Qur'an was not written by any human, since it would be humanly impossible for Muhammad to inspire followers to conquer a nation with the Qur'an, since it goes against what people like.

It would have to take a complete miracle or something supernatural for that to happen, thus proving that the Qur'an is the true word of someone supernatural and was only able to convince his folowers by the help of one divine, and that is Allah.

Thanks for confirming that Muhammad is a true prophet and the Qur'an is truly the word of Allah.
errya
Posts: 140
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12/17/2012 5:49:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago


"It is humanly impossible for a person/s to inspire enough people to follow him/her to conquer a nation by using humanmande speech/literature that goes against the likes and beliefs of those people."

St Patrick in Ireland used the Bible, the word of God.
The Most Noble Lord Horatio Nelson, Viscount and Baron Nelson, of the Nile and of Burnham Thorpe in the County of Norfolk, Baron Nelson of the Nile and of Hilborough in the said County, Knight of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath, Vice Admiral of the White Squadron of the Fleet, Commander in Chief of his Majesty's Ships and Vessels in the Mediterranean, Duke of Bront" in the Kingdom of Sicily, Knight Grand Cross of the Sicilian Order of St Ferdinand and of Merit, Member of the Ottoman Ord...
Fatihah
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12/17/2012 7:26:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/17/2012 5:49:34 PM, errya wrote:



St Patrick in Ireland used the Bible, the word of God.

Response: Yet not a single source says so, nor can you quote and prove otherwise.
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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12/18/2012 2:34:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/16/2012 3:00:27 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/16/2012 2:45:37 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:


I have no desire to, but plenty of bullies/losers like Hitler did it easily..

The Bible is the Word of God.

As it says.. The word became flesh!

Response: Yet your ducking and dodging to answer the challenge, along with your inability to quote any source that says Hitler did it proves otherwise. And even if it did, it would be evidence from hearsay, while Qur"an challenge shows that the act is impossible by requiring you to do the act yourself, thus providing evidence from a hands-on eyewitness account. Hearsay is not more credible than a hands-on eyewitness account. Thus the challenge shows that your alleged historical evidence is false, and the Qur'an is the true word of Allah. Debunked as usual.

Muhammad, just like Hitler, used brute force; the only difference between the two is that Hitler was sexually moral. ;D

Jesus took over the whole world by dying on a cross.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,559
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12/18/2012 6:05:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/17/2012 5:06:59 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/17/2012 3:59:07 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:

It is logically absurd too - if people are inspired to follow something then it cannot be against their beliefs when they do follow it - one cannot follow some course of action unless one wants to.

Harry.

Response: EXACTLY!!! You just proved my point. You just stated loud and clear, that it's completely illogical, thus the act is impossible. Therefore, your very own logic demonstrates that the Qur'an was not written by any human, since it would be humanly impossible for Muhammad to inspire followers to conquer a nation with the Qur'an, since it goes against what people like.

The Koran was written by humans - it was recorded and written by humans, I think you meant to write "was not inspired by any human" - not that I accept that claim of course.

If a mass of people follow the directives of another - as they do all the time by the way - that does not prove there is anything supernatural at play.

If a mass people follow another and do something that is "going against" what they like - then how do you know it is really going against what they like? If they didn't already want to do it they would not do it - the fact that they do do it does not prove the Koran was inspired supernaturally, it actually means that you were wrong to believe that they did not want to do it.

People have been invading and marauding in the name of fanatical ideologies for centuries Fatihah - the Muslim hordes who invaded Persia right up to the Ottoman invasions and later were brutal barbaric invasions, we see similar conquests throughout ancient and recent history. The Roman Empire, the Greeks, the Mongols, Babylonians, Assyrians etc etc etc - the Islamic conquests are just another among many if you read some history and stop obsessing over this one cult you'd begin to see this.

Harry.
Fatihah
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12/18/2012 6:22:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/18/2012 6:05:58 AM, Dirty.Harry wrote:


The Koran was written by humans - it was recorded and written by humans, I think you meant to write "was not inspired by any human" - not that I accept that claim of course.

If a mass of people follow the directives of another - as they do all the time by the way - that does not prove there is anything supernatural at play.

If a mass people follow another and do something that is "going against" what they like - then how do you know it is really going against what they like? If they didn't already want to do it they would not do it - the fact that they do do it does not prove the Koran was inspired supernaturally, it actually means that you were wrong to believe that they did not want to do it.

People have been invading and marauding in the name of fanatical ideologies for centuries Fatihah - the Muslim hordes who invaded Persia right up to the Ottoman invasions and later were brutal barbaric invasions, we see similar conquests throughout ancient and recent history. The Roman Empire, the Greeks, the Mongols, Babylonians, Assyrians etc etc etc - the Islamic conquests are just another among many if you read some history and stop obsessing over this one cult you'd begin to see this.

Harry.

Response: Your argument fails. You admittedly acknowledged that it's impossible to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation by using human-made speech that goes against their liking. So by your own logic, neither Muhammad or any person could have written the Qur'an and inspired followers to conquer any naion with it. So your own logic debunks you.

The only way possible to do so is if someone greater than humans and supernaural aided Muhammad, thus proving that the Qur'an derives from Allah and the spread of islam was a miracle by Muhammad. Thnaks for your assistance.
DanielChristopherBlowes
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12/18/2012 6:28:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/18/2012 2:34:52 AM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 12/16/2012 3:00:27 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/16/2012 2:45:37 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:


I have no desire to, but plenty of bullies/losers like Hitler did it easily..

The Bible is the Word of God.

As it says.. The word became flesh!

Response: Yet your ducking and dodging to answer the challenge, along with your inability to quote any source that says Hitler did it proves otherwise. And even if it did, it would be evidence from hearsay, while Qur"an challenge shows that the act is impossible by requiring you to do the act yourself, thus providing evidence from a hands-on eyewitness account. Hearsay is not more credible than a hands-on eyewitness account. Thus the challenge shows that your alleged historical evidence is false, and the Qur'an is the true word of Allah. Debunked as usual.

Muhammad, just like Hitler, used brute force; the only difference between the two is that Hitler was sexually moral. ;D

Jesus took over the whole world by dying on a cross.

Giving up?
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)