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You, yes YOU, you are an atheist

Illegalcombatant
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12/19/2012 10:49:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Okey, sure you might not be an atheist in the most general sense, but you are an atheist in a more specific sense, when it comes to the other guys God, holy books, scripture, doctrines, dogma, faith etc.

Everyone is an atheist when it comes to the OTHER guys God. You know what it is like when some one claims to believe in a God you don't believe in, for example......

1) The God that wanted the south to keep slaves
2) The God that wants us to kill homosexuals
3) The God that did want us to kill homosexuals in the past.......but not now.
4) The God that did want us to kill homosexuals in the past, but not now, but not allow same sex marraige.
5) The God that sends earthquakes to punish gay marriage/homosexuals
6) The God that sends earthquakes to punish for some other reason
7) The God that doesn't send earthquakes as punishments
8) Etc etc

So before you lament the existence of atheists, just appreciate how much you have in common with the atheist when its come to the OTHER GUYS God.

That is all.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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12/19/2012 10:54:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This can really be turned around to "Atheists are impractically the same as theists".
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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socialpinko
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12/19/2012 10:56:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 10:54:57 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
This can really be turned around to "Atheists are impractically the same as theists".

How?
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: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
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Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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12/19/2012 10:57:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 10:54:57 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
This can really be turned around to "Atheists are impractically the same as theists".

More appropriately, "theists are cherry-ppicking atheists."
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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12/19/2012 10:57:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 10:49:07 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
So before you lament the existence of atheists, just appreciate how much you have in common with the atheist when its come to the OTHER GUYS God.

What is the value of such a banal observation? I see atheists bandy this observation about frequently as if it scores them some rhetorical point, but I don't get it. Yes, you believe in one less God than I do. And I believe in one more God than you do. So the difference between us is that I believe in one God, and you believe in no gods. So what? What's the point? Why point this out as if it's some grand revelation? What effect is it supposed to have on theists when you point this out? Are we supposed to says, "Oh, I guess we're not that different. No point in arguing over such a trivial difference, then." If that's the point, then why do the atheists who bandy this banal observation about continue to try to argue with theists? If we're not much different than you, then you're not much different than us. Please explain to me what the point is.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/19/2012 11:08:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 10:49:07 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Okey, sure you might not be an atheist in the most general sense, but you are an atheist in a more specific sense, when it comes to the other guys God, holy books, scripture, doctrines, dogma, faith etc.

Everyone is an atheist when it comes to the OTHER guys God. You know what it is like when some one claims to believe in a God you don't believe in, for example......

1) The God that wanted the south to keep slaves
2) The God that wants us to kill homosexuals
3) The God that did want us to kill homosexuals in the past.......but not now.
4) The God that did want us to kill homosexuals in the past, but not now, but not allow same sex marraige.
5) The God that sends earthquakes to punish gay marriage/homosexuals
6) The God that sends earthquakes to punish for some other reason
7) The God that doesn't send earthquakes as punishments
8) Etc etc

So before you lament the existence of atheists, just appreciate how much you have in common with the atheist when its come to the OTHER GUYS God.

That is all.

I rather like dealing with atheists more. Religious folks are often so... hokey.
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/19/2012 11:09:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 10:57:18 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 12/19/2012 10:54:57 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
This can really be turned around to "Atheists are impractically the same as theists".

More appropriately, "theists are cherry-ppicking atheists."

Not if we have better reasons to believe what we believe.

By the same respect, I can say atheists are worldview cherry pickers.
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/19/2012 11:10:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 10:57:20 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 12/19/2012 10:49:07 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
So before you lament the existence of atheists, just appreciate how much you have in common with the atheist when its come to the OTHER GUYS God.

What is the value of such a banal observation? I see atheists bandy this observation about frequently as if it scores them some rhetorical point, but I don't get it. Yes, you believe in one less God than I do. And I believe in one more God than you do. So the difference between us is that I believe in one God, and you believe in no gods. So what? What's the point? Why point this out as if it's some grand revelation? What effect is it supposed to have on theists when you point this out? Are we supposed to says, "Oh, I guess we're not that different. No point in arguing over such a trivial difference, then." If that's the point, then why do the atheists who bandy this banal observation about continue to try to argue with theists? If we're not much different than you, then you're not much different than us. Please explain to me what the point is.

CHill dude you're just wrong kay?
Apeiron
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12/19/2012 11:12:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I will say this, I'm glad in some respects that Illegalcombatant is an atheist- since most of the stuff he comes up with makes other atheists face*palm.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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12/19/2012 11:14:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 11:12:24 PM, Apeiron wrote:
I will say this, I'm glad in some respects that Illegalcombatant is an atheist- since most of the stuff he comes up with makes other atheists face*palm.

I will say this, your a slimy little piece of sh*t.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Apeiron
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12/19/2012 11:16:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 11:14:46 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/19/2012 11:12:24 PM, Apeiron wrote:
I will say this, I'm glad in some respects that Illegalcombatant is an atheist- since most of the stuff he comes up with makes other atheists face*palm.

I will say this, your a slimy little piece of sh*t.

;-) luvs
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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12/19/2012 11:16:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 11:12:24 PM, Apeiron wrote:
I will say this, I'm glad in some respects that Illegalcombatant is an atheist- since most of the stuff he comes up with makes other atheists face*palm.

Well, he didn't come up with this one. It's a typical atheist slogan: "We all atheists; I just believe in one less god than you do."

It's kind of like saying, "We're all bachelors; I just have one less wife than you do."

Or sometimes they'll say, "When you understand why you don't believe in every other god, you'll understand why I don't believe in yours."

So apparently the primary reason atheists reject my God is because the Bible says so.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
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12/19/2012 11:21:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 11:16:37 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 12/19/2012 11:12:24 PM, Apeiron wrote:
I will say this, I'm glad in some respects that Illegalcombatant is an atheist- since most of the stuff he comes up with makes other atheists face*palm.

Well, he didn't come up with this one. It's a typical atheist slogan: "We all atheists; I just believe in one less god than you do."

It's kind of like saying, "We're all bachelors; I just have one less wife than you do."

Or sometimes they'll say, "When you understand why you don't believe in every other god, you'll understand why I don't believe in yours."

So apparently the primary reason atheists reject my God is because the Bible says so.

You do realize your conclusion doesn't follow in the slightest from your premises, right?
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Illegalcombatant
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12/19/2012 11:22:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 11:16:37 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 12/19/2012 11:12:24 PM, Apeiron wrote:
I will say this, I'm glad in some respects that Illegalcombatant is an atheist- since most of the stuff he comes up with makes other atheists face*palm.

Well, he didn't come up with this one. It's a typical atheist slogan: "We all atheists; I just believe in one less god than you do."


It's kind of like saying, "We're all bachelors; I just have one less wife than you do."

Or sometimes they'll say, "When you understand why you don't believe in every other god, you'll understand why I don't believe in yours."

So apparently the primary reason atheists reject my God is because the Bible says so.

Suffice to say, your miss the deeper point if that is all you take away from this. But One God is a hell of alot different than Zero God, silly atheists, herp derp.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
philochristos
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12/19/2012 11:23:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 11:21:10 PM, Zaradi wrote:
You do realize your conclusion doesn't follow in the slightest from your premises, right?

What conclusion? What premise? I haven't even made an argument, so what are you talking about?
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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12/19/2012 11:24:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 11:16:16 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 12/19/2012 11:14:46 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/19/2012 11:12:24 PM, Apeiron wrote:
I will say this, I'm glad in some respects that Illegalcombatant is an atheist- since most of the stuff he comes up with makes other atheists face*palm.

I will say this, your a slimy little piece of sh*t.

;-) luvs

Hugs.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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12/19/2012 11:25:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 11:22:39 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Suffice to say, your miss the deeper point if that is all you take away from this

Yes, I do, which is precisely why I asked you earlier in this thread what the point is.

But One God is a hell of alot different than Zero God, silly atheists, herp derp.

Then why do you trivialize the difference at the beginning of this thread?
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/19/2012 11:26:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 11:21:10 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 12/19/2012 11:16:37 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 12/19/2012 11:12:24 PM, Apeiron wrote:
I will say this, I'm glad in some respects that Illegalcombatant is an atheist- since most of the stuff he comes up with makes other atheists face*palm.

Well, he didn't come up with this one. It's a typical atheist slogan: "We all atheists; I just believe in one less god than you do."

It's kind of like saying, "We're all bachelors; I just have one less wife than you do."

Or sometimes they'll say, "When you understand why you don't believe in every other god, you'll understand why I don't believe in yours."

So apparently the primary reason atheists reject my God is because the Bible says so.

You do realize your conclusion doesn't follow in the slightest from your premises, right?

Analogies, not premises.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/19/2012 11:28:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 11:24:16 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/19/2012 11:16:16 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 12/19/2012 11:14:46 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/19/2012 11:12:24 PM, Apeiron wrote:
I will say this, I'm glad in some respects that Illegalcombatant is an atheist- since most of the stuff he comes up with makes other atheists face*palm.

I will say this, your a slimy little piece of sh*t.

;-) luvs

Hugs.

dang, ya'll. Just bro hug it out. ;P
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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12/19/2012 11:47:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The argument is that believers in god(n) do not believe in god(1) ... god(n-1). Therefore not believing in n-1 gods must be justifiable. If n-1 gods are disbelieved, justifying disbelief must be readily possible. Therefore disbelieving all n gods must be justifiable.

I don't think the argument is particular good, because the theist bases belief and disbelief upon faith, so he doesn't have to rationally consider all the alternatives, while the atheist cannot base disbelief on faith. Still, it's remarkable how easily the believer dismisses all other gods.

One exception is Buddhism, which takes no position on the existence of gods. Buddhists may therefore accept a god from another religion.
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/19/2012 11:56:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 11:47:53 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
The argument is that believers in god(n) do not believe in god(1) ... god(n-1). Therefore not believing in n-1 gods must be justifiable. If n-1 gods are disbelieved, justifying disbelief must be readily possible. Therefore disbelieving all n gods must be justifiable.

I don't think the argument is particular good, because the theist bases belief and disbelief upon faith, so he doesn't have to rationally consider all the alternatives, while the atheist cannot base disbelief on faith. Still, it's remarkable how easily the believer dismisses all other gods.

One exception is Buddhism, which takes no position on the existence of gods. Buddhists may therefore accept a god from another religion.

I believe in the utility of atheism. But Christianity can be justified by the self understanding of Jesus and his resurrection in history. Insofar as the Christian can prove the resurrection, it follows that all other religions are false. (Christian Particularism)- So Christ sort of made it easy for us.

Whereas the atheist is dedicated to naturalism / materialism & physicalism- all positions which seem intellectual pricey.
popculturepooka
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12/20/2012 12:11:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 11:56:07 PM, Apeiron wrote:

I believe in the utility of atheism.

I'm just curious as to what you mean by that. Would you mind explaining?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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12/20/2012 12:39:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
From the encyclopedia of philosophy, according to the most usual definition, an atheist is a person who maintains that there is no God. That is to say that the sentence "God exists" expresses a false proposition. Therefore, in no sense are Christians atheist. Just because I deny the existence of Thor and Zeus does not make me an atheist.
Illegalcombatant
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12/20/2012 12:44:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/20/2012 12:39:13 AM, stubs wrote:
From the encyclopedia of philosophy, according to the most usual definition, an atheist is a person who maintains that there is no God. That is to say that the sentence "God exists" expresses a false proposition. Therefore, in no sense are Christians atheist. Just because I deny the existence of Thor and Zeus does not make me an atheist.

Cool story, maybe just maybe, that's why right at the start I mentioned being an atheist in one sense but not in another ? Ya know, to avoid having to play define the atheist game.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
stubs
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12/20/2012 12:47:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/20/2012 12:44:45 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/20/2012 12:39:13 AM, stubs wrote:
From the encyclopedia of philosophy, according to the most usual definition, an atheist is a person who maintains that there is no God. That is to say that the sentence "God exists" expresses a false proposition. Therefore, in no sense are Christians atheist. Just because I deny the existence of Thor and Zeus does not make me an atheist.

Cool story, maybe just maybe, that's why right at the start I mentioned being an atheist in one sense but not in another ? Ya know, to avoid having to play define the atheist game.

But in order to be an atheist you have to believe the universally qualified statement that there is no God. And I don't believe that. So in no sense am I an atheist.
Illegalcombatant
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12/20/2012 1:01:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/20/2012 12:47:26 AM, stubs wrote:
At 12/20/2012 12:44:45 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/20/2012 12:39:13 AM, stubs wrote:
From the encyclopedia of philosophy, according to the most usual definition, an atheist is a person who maintains that there is no God. That is to say that the sentence "God exists" expresses a false proposition. Therefore, in no sense are Christians atheist. Just because I deny the existence of Thor and Zeus does not make me an atheist.

Cool story, maybe just maybe, that's why right at the start I mentioned being an atheist in one sense but not in another ? Ya know, to avoid having to play define the atheist game.

But in order to be an atheist you have to believe the universally qualified statement that there is no God. And I don't believe that. So in no sense am I an atheist.

There are other definitions of atheism, but I'd rather not play the define the atheist game on this thread.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
stubs
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12/20/2012 1:03:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/20/2012 1:01:41 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
There are other definitions of atheism, but I'd rather not play the define the atheist game on this thread.

touche
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/20/2012 1:14:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/20/2012 12:11:38 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/19/2012 11:56:07 PM, Apeiron wrote:

I believe in the utility of atheism.

I'm just curious as to what you mean by that. Would you mind explaining?

Picture the atheist digging away and excavating layers of gravel, silt, sand, many different types of soil all just to arrive at what isn't so easily ignored- the treasure of Christianity.

Of course the excavator can mistake this treasure for the rest of the dirt surrounding it, or just choose to ignore it in his excitement, and so he'll dig right past it in his quest for truth.

I see it this way,

Both the atheist and the Christian alike are working in the same site. The Christian need not dig anywhere else other than refine his case where he sees the treasure, which in turn makes it all the more obvious the dirt from the treasure- whereas the atheist comes back and forth, mistaking the treasure for other dirt, all the while however the atheist is a utility: he helps raise deep problems with what could be dirt that we think is treasure (i.e., 6-day creationism, NDE's, etc), or that other religions think is treasure, etc..

Perhaps then one day, the atheist will come to see that the treasure cannot be so easily moved as all the rest of the dirt, and so he'll be drawn to it as well along with all the others who were once just looking at dirt.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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12/20/2012 1:30:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 10:57:20 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 12/19/2012 10:49:07 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
So before you lament the existence of atheists, just appreciate how much you have in common with the atheist when its come to the OTHER GUYS God.

What is the value of such a banal observation? I see atheists bandy this observation about frequently as if it scores them some rhetorical point, but I don't get it. Yes, you believe in one less God than I do. And I believe in one more God than you do. So the difference between us is that I believe in one God, and you believe in no gods. So what? What's the point? Why point this out as if it's some grand revelation? What effect is it supposed to have on theists when you point this out? Are we supposed to says, "Oh, I guess we're not that different. No point in arguing over such a trivial difference, then." If that's the point, then why do the atheists who bandy this banal observation about continue to try to argue with theists? If we're not much different than you, then you're not much different than us. Please explain to me what the point is.

That's gonna leave a mark.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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12/20/2012 2:16:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 10:49:07 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Okey, sure you might not be an atheist in the most general sense, but you are an atheist in a more specific sense, when it comes to the other guys God, holy books, scripture, doctrines, dogma, faith etc.

Everyone is an atheist when it comes to the OTHER guys God. You know what it is like when some one claims to believe in a God you don't believe in, for example......

1) The God that wanted the south to keep slaves
2) The God that wants us to kill homosexuals
3) The God that did want us to kill homosexuals in the past.......but not now.
4) The God that did want us to kill homosexuals in the past, but not now, but not allow same sex marraige.
5) The God that sends earthquakes to punish gay marriage/homosexuals
6) The God that sends earthquakes to punish for some other reason
7) The God that doesn't send earthquakes as punishments
8) Etc etc

So before you lament the existence of atheists, just appreciate how much you have in common with the atheist when its come to the OTHER GUYS God.

That is all.

When the one belief that makes me different in this scenario is also the one belief that changes everything about who I am and how I live, the commonality I'm told to appreciate becomes increasingly less evident.