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Are Jehovah's Witnesses "proof" texts facts??

chriibe
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12/20/2012 11:59:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
DOES JOHN 17:3 DISPROVE THE DEITY OF JESUS?
No, it proves it! How?

John 17:3 seems to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses' favourite verses when trying to debunk the authenticity of Trinity [namely: involving the Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ]. According to Greg Stafford in his debate with Mr. White, he said "Jesus expressed true monotheism in John 17:3 and he [an Ex JW though], still doesn't believe in the deity of Jesus Christ.

According to the New World Translation [Hence, NWT], John 17:3 says "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."

Your main focus in this quotation is what Jesus called the Father [the ONLY true God] and could even turn back here on seeing it but it all needs further study. This verse tends to be a "strong' proof against the deity of Jesus but the further we read, the further you see how this verse proves the deity of Jesus. Firstly, I would like you to read the chapter up to verse 10 which says "and all my things are yours and yours are mine..." This verse is very important for this discussion.

"What is my point?" Is your question...

Jude 4 says: "My reason is that certain men have slipped in who have long ago been appointed by the Scriptures to this judgment, ungodly men, turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct and proving false to our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ." What do we have here? Read on: 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 goes on to say: "For even though there are those who are called [i.e. so-called] "gods," whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many "gods" and many "lords," there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him."... I really feel fulfilled after quoting these verse to a JW during a dialogue. From this verse, we see that apart from the only true God, all other so called gods are fake and there is one true Lord apart from whom all other lords are fake... but wait a sec, Jesus says this about his Father: "At that time Jesus said in response: "I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes." This is really amazing! Could Jesus be among these "ungodly men" (in Jude 4) for calling his Father "Lord of Heaven and Earth" even though He knew that He was the only true Lord or is his Father be among these "fake so-called "lords" (in 1 Corinthians 8:5-6) having been mentioned as "Lord" besides Jesus Christ? If not, how then do we harmonize these "problem texts"?

The Bible has not left us in a complete dilemma as to what to do that is why He inspired Jesus to say "and all my things are yours and yours are mine...". From this quotation, we are rest assured that the Lordship of Jesus has not placed a restriction to the Father's also being "Lord of Heaven and Earth" but has made it possible for the Bible not be contradictory.

Therefore, if the Father can also be Lord of Heavens and Earth and at the same time, not be among these "so-called lords" [cf. 1 Corinthians 8:5] regardless of the fact that Jesus is the only Lord [cf. Jude 4 and 1 Corinthians 8:5-6], what then do we make of John 17:3 that calls the Father "the only true God"? Isn't that applicable too? In fact, the last time I checked, the NWT told me "ALL the gods of the people are valueless..." and according to John 20:28, "in answer Thomas said to Him [Jesus] "my Lord and my God!" " could the "God of Thomas be valueless too? remember, this same God created "ALL THINGS" [John 1:1-3]... I guess the JWs had better find a better "proof' text because this one is actually our proof text.
Marauder
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12/20/2012 12:21:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
are there even Jehovah Witnesses on this site who will respond to any. I didnt know we gained some members like that.

or are there even Christians who do not hold to the teaching of the Trinity? its a very rare breed of belief. you about have to be a JW, or a Mormon, or a Quaker to think along those lines.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Composer
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12/20/2012 5:45:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/20/2012 11:59:59 AM, chriibe wrote:
. . . . and according to John 20:28, "in answer Thomas said to Him [Jesus] "my Lord and my God!" " could the "God of Thomas be valueless too? remember, this same God created "ALL THINGS" [John 1:1-3]... I guess the JWs had better find a better "proof' text because this one is actually our proof text.

John 17:3 is fatal to the Johnny Come Lately NON Original & NONE earliest beliefs!

Story book Thomas ' statement confirms the non-deity of Story book jebus!

trinitarians make the mistake of reading ' My lord who is also my god '

Wheras Thomas' binary distinguishes betweenhis god = god & jebus who is not a god but merely a prophet sent by his god according to Story book John 17:3

trinitarians are well advised to consult ' wrestedscriptures.com ' that corrects these trinitarian claims and exposes them correctly as trinitarian BS!
chriibe
Posts: 13
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12/21/2012 10:19:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/20/2012 5:45:33 PM, Composer wrote:
...John 17:3 is fatal to the Johnny Come Lately NON Original & NONE earliest beliefs!

Story book Thomas ' statement confirms the non-deity of Story book jebus!

trinitarians make the mistake of reading ' My lord who is also my god '

Wheras Thomas' binary distinguishes betweenhis god = god & jebus who is not a god but merely a prophet sent by his god according to Story book John 17:3

trinitarians are well advised to consult ' wrestedscriptures.com ' that corrects these trinitarian claims and exposes them correctly as trinitarian BS!

Did you read my post at all??? I already proved to you that John 17:3 doesn't disprove the deity of Jesus but I guess you lost your eyes to t [no offence]... Let me quote myself again. I said "According to the New World Translation [Hence, NWT], John 17:3 says "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."

Your main focus in this quotation is what Jesus called the Father [the ONLY true God] and could even turn back here on seeing it but it all needs further study. This verse tends to be a "strong' proof against the deity of Jesus but the further we read, the further you see how this verse proves the deity of Jesus. Firstly, I would like you to read the chapter up to verse 10 which says "and all my things are yours and yours are mine..." This verse is very important for this discussion.

"What is my point?" Is your question...

Jude 4 says: "My reason is that certain men have slipped in who have long ago been appointed by the Scriptures to this judgment, ungodly men, turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct and proving false to our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ." What do we have here? Read on: 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 goes on to say: "For even though there are those who are called [i.e. so-called] "gods," whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many "gods" and many "lords," there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him."... I really feel fulfilled after quoting these verse to a JW during a dialogue. From this verse, we see that apart from the only true God, all other so called gods are fake and there is one true Lord apart from whom all other lords are fake... but wait a sec, Jesus says this about his Father: "At that time Jesus said in response: "I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes." This is really amazing! Could Jesus be among these "ungodly men" (in Jude 4) for calling his Father "Lord of Heaven and Earth" even though He knew that He was the only true Lord or is his Father be among these "fake so-called "lords" (in 1 Corinthians 8:5-6) having been mentioned as "Lord" besides Jesus Christ? If not, how then do we harmonize these "problem texts"?

The Bible has not left us in a complete dilemma as to what to do that is why He inspired Jesus to say "and all my things are yours and yours are mine...". From this quotation, we are rest assured that the Lordship of Jesus has not placed a restriction to the Father's also being "Lord of Heaven and Earth" but has made it possible for the Bible not be contradictory.

Therefore, if the Father can also be Lord of Heavens and Earth and at the same time, not be among these "so-called lords" [cf. 1 Corinthians 8:5] regardless of the fact that Jesus is the only Lord [cf. Jude 4 and 1 Corinthians 8:5-6], what then do we make of John 17:3 that calls the Father "the only true God"? Isn't that applicable too?"... I GUESS YO AIN'T BLIND TO SEE THIS ON TOO, ARE YOU?
chriibe
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12/21/2012 10:23:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
@Composer, by the way, the Greek has John 20:28 as "ho kyrios moi koi ho Theos moi" Translated literally as: "the Lord of me and THE GOD of me" [ven Jehovah's Witnesses KINGDOM INTERLINEAR]. Why isn't is "a god of Thomas"? Please do not be dumb even Early Church Fathers believed in the Deity of Jesus Christ go to: http://refuterslodge.blogspot.com...
Composer
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12/21/2012 7:55:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 10:23:49 AM, chriibe wrote:
@Composer, by the way, the Greek has John 20:28 as "ho kyrios moi koi ho Theos moi" Translated literally as: "the Lord of me and THE GOD of me" [ven Jehovah's Witnesses KINGDOM INTERLINEAR]. Why isn't is "a god of Thomas"? Please do not be dumb even Early Church Fathers believed in the Deity of Jesus Christ go to: http://refuterslodge.blogspot.com...

I am away for the Xmas break and from my Computer saved resources. I shall return in about a week or so and continue to show your errors!
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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12/21/2012 8:32:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/20/2012 11:59:59 AM, chriibe wrote:
DOES JOHN 17:3 DISPROVE THE DEITY OF JESUS?
No, it proves it! How?

There's something many religious people need to learn: Bible verses claim things; they don't prove things.
Composer
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12/21/2012 11:01:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 8:32:05 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 12/20/2012 11:59:59 AM, chriibe wrote:
DOES JOHN 17:3 DISPROVE THE DEITY OF JESUS?
No, it proves it! How?

There's something many religious people need to learn: Bible verses claim things; they don't prove things.

+1
TheAntidoter
Posts: 4,323
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12/21/2012 11:03:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 11:01:48 PM, Composer wrote:
At 12/21/2012 8:32:05 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 12/20/2012 11:59:59 AM, chriibe wrote:
DOES JOHN 17:3 DISPROVE THE DEITY OF JESUS?
No, it proves it! How?

There's something many religious people need to learn: Bible verses claim things; they don't prove things.

+1

+0
Affinity: Fire
Class: Human
Abilities: ????

Nac.

WOAH, COLORED FONT!
Dogknox
Posts: 5,078
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12/21/2012 11:48:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
chriibe
Jesus said..
Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."
&
Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, "It is written: "Worship the Lord your God and serve him only." "

chriibe Jesus can't LIE!
Worship is ONLY for GOD!! Just for God none other but God!

LOOK they worship Jesus!!!
Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."

chriibe Worship is for ONLY GOD!!

Matthew 28:9
Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.

Jesus said.. Worship is ONLY for GOD!!

Matthew 28:17
When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.

chriibe Some did NOT worship Jesus because some doubted Jesus is God!
Jesus never stops people from WORSHIPING HIM!!

Luke 24:52
Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.

LOOK they worship Jesus; Jesus does NOT stop them from worshiping him! If Jesus did not stop them from worshiping him when he should not be worshiped, then he would be as Satan, accepting worship when he should not!
chriibe Jesus would be sinning the greatest sin, by not stopping the worship.. If he was not to be worshiped!
The ONLY thing that fits is "Jesus is GOD", worship is for God and ONLY for God!
QUESTION: Did Jesus lie when he told Satan.. "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only?!"

John 9:38
Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.

chriibe Elizabeth says it best... But why am I so favored, that the mother of my "GOD" should come to me?

chriibe Every single time in Luke 1 from verse 1 to verse 42 when the word "LORD" is used it means "GOD"! When Elizabeth uses the word "LORD" in verse #43 (below) it can only means "GOD"!

Luke 1:41
When Elizabeth heard Mary"s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear!
43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?


chriibe 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my "GOD" should come to me?

Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. (which means "God with us")

chriibe Jesus is EQUAL to God thus he IS God!
Philippians 2:6
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage.

Dogknox
chriibe
Posts: 13
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12/22/2012 9:59:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 11:48:17 PM, Dogknox wrote:
chriibe
Jesus said..
Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."
&
Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, "It is written: "Worship the Lord your God and serve him only." "

chriibe Jesus can't LIE!
Worship is ONLY for GOD!! Just for God none other but God!

LOOK they worship Jesus!!!
Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."

chriibe Worship is for ONLY GOD!!

Matthew 28:9
Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.

Jesus said.. Worship is ONLY for GOD!!

Matthew 28:17
When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.

chriibe Some did NOT worship Jesus because some doubted Jesus is God!
Jesus never stops people from WORSHIPING HIM!!

Luke 24:52
Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.

LOOK they worship Jesus; Jesus does NOT stop them from worshiping him! If Jesus did not stop them from worshiping him when he should not be worshiped, then he would be as Satan, accepting worship when he should not!
chriibe Jesus would be sinning the greatest sin, by not stopping the worship.. If he was not to be worshiped!
The ONLY thing that fits is "Jesus is GOD", worship is for God and ONLY for God!
QUESTION: Did Jesus lie when he told Satan.. "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only?!"

John 9:38
Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.

chriibe Elizabeth says it best... But why am I so favored, that the mother of my "GOD" should come to me?

chriibe Every single time in Luke 1 from verse 1 to verse 42 when the word "LORD" is used it means "GOD"! When Elizabeth uses the word "LORD" in verse #43 (below) it can only means "GOD"!

Luke 1:41
When Elizabeth heard Mary"s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear!
43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?


chriibe 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my "GOD" should come to me?

Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. (which means "God with us")

chriibe Jesus is EQUAL to God thus he IS God!
Philippians 2:6
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage.

Dogknox

Nice try bro; at least, someone gets to bring some points not the crap I was seeing before.... Firstly, you must remember that Jesus only quoted Exodus 20:3 he did not say that worship cannot be addressed to himself. Secondly, you quoted Phil. 2:5-7 which had a slight mistranslation... Reading from the Greek, That verse says "He did not consider it robbery being equal with God" [Original Greek Scriptures]. It is pretty evident that He was equal with God but did not consider it robbery being with God, why? because "being in the form of God, he TOOK UP the form of a servant" (Phil. 2:5-7) simple!!! That is why He did not reprove any act worship given to him [as prophesied in Dan. 7:13]
Another thing you must remember is that "Jesus is NOT the Father but ONE GOD with the Father" no wonder Rom. 8:9 makes it clear that the Spirit of God is also the Spirit of Christ in other words, they are one [John 10:30] by the binding power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.... Bless you
Dogknox
Posts: 5,078
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12/22/2012 11:29:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
chriibe You said.. Nice try bro; at least, someone gets to bring some points not the crap I was seeing before.... Firstly, you must remember that Jesus only quoted Exodus 20:3 he did not say that worship cannot be addressed to himself. Secondly, you quoted Phil. 2:5-7 which had a slight mistranslation... Reading from the Greek, That verse says "He did not consider it robbery being equal with God" [Original Greek Scriptures]. It is pretty evident that He was equal with God but did not consider it robbery being with God, why? because "being in the form of God, he TOOK UP the form of a servant" (Phil. 2:5-7) simple!!! That is why He did not reprove any act worship given to him [as prophesied in Dan. 7:13]
Another thing you must remember is that "Jesus is NOT the Father but ONE GOD with the Father" no wonder Rom. 8:9 makes it clear that the Spirit of God is also the Spirit of Christ in other words, they are one [John 10:30] by the binding power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.... Bless you


he did not say that worship cannot be addressed to himself.

I reply: Jesus DID SAY... "WORSHIP is for ONLY GOD!"

You are right "Worship CAN be addressed to Him (Jesus)" because "JESUS IS GOD"!
Jesus did not worship Satan because "ONLY GOD is to be worshiped"!!

....................................................................
Dictionary Dot Com
ONLY
Without others or anything further; alone; solely; exclusively: This information is for your eyes only.
.....................................................................
Solely.. God is worshiped!
Exclusively.. God is worshiped!
No one BUT God is worshiped!
Conclusion: They worship Jesus because; Jesus is GOD!

Exodus 20:3
"You shall have no other gods before me."

DO YOU SEE IT (above) ?? "ME": Singular (ONE)

They worship Jesus because Jesus is GOD, Jesus does NOT stop them from worshiping him!!!

chriibe IF...
If Jesus was NOT God then he would be sinning by allowing them to worship him!!!!!!!!

chriibe It can only be concluded that "Jesus is GOD!"

You said.. you quoted Phil. 2:5-7 which had a slight mistranslation... Reading from the Greek, That verse says "He did not consider it robbery being equal with God" [Original Greek Scriptures].

I reply: "He did not consider it robbery being equal with God"! Because Jesus is EQUAL with God! ONE GOD!! Exodus 20:3 (above)

.................................................................................
Dictionary Dot Com
EQUAL
As great as; the same as (often followed by to or with ): The velocity of sound is not equal to that of light.
................................................................................

Jesus is as great as God!
Jesus is the SAME as God!!
Jesus is EQUAL to God because; Jesus IS GOD!!
Conclusion: Nothing is equal to God! Jesus is EQUAL, Jesus is GOD!!!

God is ONE!!!!
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

Make DISCIPLES with the AUTHORITY of the FATHER in his name!
Make DISCIPLES with the AUTHORITY of the SON in his name!
Make DISCIPLES with the AUTHORITY of the HOLY SPIRIT in his name!
Speaking for God, in God' name, with all of God' authority.. Make DISCIPLES!

God is ONE thus Jesus is GOD!

Elizabeth tells you "Mary is the mother of GOD!"
Luke 1:43
But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Jesus is named Immanuel!!!
Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

chriibe QUESTION what does the name Immanuel mean!!??

chriibe Jesus is GOD, the second person of the blessed trinity! Scriptures have to be twisted by the JW's to say different!!!

Dogknox
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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12/22/2012 4:59:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 11:03:49 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
At 12/21/2012 11:01:48 PM, Composer wrote:
At 12/21/2012 8:32:05 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 12/20/2012 11:59:59 AM, chriibe wrote:
DOES JOHN 17:3 DISPROVE THE DEITY OF JESUS?
No, it proves it! How?

There's something many religious people need to learn: Bible verses claim things; they don't prove things.

+1

+0

Great for moi!

+1 + 0 = +1
Or
+1 & + 0 = 10
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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12/22/2012 5:18:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 11:29:29 AM, Dogknox wrote:
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

Make DISCIPLES with the AUTHORITY of the FATHER in his name!
Make DISCIPLES with the AUTHORITY of the SON in his name!
Make DISCIPLES with the AUTHORITY of the HOLY SPIRIT in his name!
Speaking for God, in God' name, with all of God' authority.. Make DISCIPLES!

God is ONE thus Jesus is GOD!

Story book jebus said - John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: . . . . (KJV Story Book)

Elizabeth tells you "Mary is the mother of GOD!"
Luke 1:43
But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Mary can not be the mother of a Supernatural god for only Pagan ideology claims mortals can give literal birth to gods!

IF Story book jebus was a literal pre-existent Supernatural god, then it was never a 100% human but a Supernatural god in disguise as one. Like a human dresses up to pretend to be a literal Father Xmas!

IF Story book Mary had told her secular neighbours or the Romans at the Story book alleged Census that she had given birth to a literal Supernatural god, then she would have been stoned by her neighbours and either imprisoned by the Romans or placed in a Psychiatric Institution or put to death by them adhering to Story book Herod's orders!

At 12/22/2012 11:29:29 AM, Dogknox wrote:
Jesus is named Immanuel!!!
Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

Big deal, LOL!

cf.

ITHIEL

GENDER: Masculine

USAGE: Biblical

OTHER SCRIPTS: אִיתִיאֵל (Ancient Hebrew)

Meaning & History

Means "God is with me" in Hebrew. This was the name of a minor character in the Old Testament.

Ithiel must also be a Supernatural god!

You malignant sinning Idol worshipper & the malignant sinning catholic Cult that also disobediently malignantly practices it!
Dogknox
Posts: 5,078
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12/22/2012 8:16:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 11:29:29 AM, Dogknox wrote:
chriibe You said.. Nice try bro; at least, someone gets to bring some points not the crap I was seeing before.... Firstly, you must remember that Jesus only quoted Exodus 20:3 he did not say that worship cannot be addressed to himself. Secondly, you quoted Phil. 2:5-7 which had a slight mistranslation... Reading from the Greek, That verse says "He did not consider it robbery being equal with God" [Original Greek Scriptures]. It is pretty evident that He was equal with God but did not consider it robbery being with God, why? because "being in the form of God, he TOOK UP the form of a servant" (Phil. 2:5-7) simple!!! That is why He did not reprove any act worship given to him [as prophesied in Dan. 7:13]
Another thing you must remember is that "Jesus is NOT the Father but ONE GOD with the Father" no wonder Rom. 8:9 makes it clear that the Spirit of God is also the Spirit of Christ in other words, they are one [John 10:30] by the binding power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.... Bless you


he did not say that worship cannot be addressed to himself.

I reply: Jesus DID SAY... "WORSHIP is for ONLY GOD!"

You are right "Worship CAN be addressed to Him (Jesus)" because "JESUS IS GOD"!
Jesus did not worship Satan because "ONLY GOD is to be worshiped"!!

....................................................................
Dictionary Dot Com
ONLY
Without others or anything further; alone; solely; exclusively: This information is for your eyes only.
.....................................................................
Solely.. God is worshiped!
Exclusively.. God is worshiped!
No one BUT God is worshiped!
Conclusion: They worship Jesus because; Jesus is GOD!


Exodus 20:3
"You shall have no other gods before me."

DO YOU SEE IT (above) ?? "ME": Singular (ONE)

They worship Jesus because Jesus is GOD, Jesus does NOT stop them from worshiping him!!!

chriibe IF...
If Jesus was NOT God then he would be sinning by allowing them to worship him!!!!!!!!

chriibe It can only be concluded that "Jesus is GOD!"

You said.. you quoted Phil. 2:5-7 which had a slight mistranslation... Reading from the Greek, That verse says "He did not consider it robbery being equal with God" [Original Greek Scriptures].

I reply: "He did not consider it robbery being equal with God"! Because Jesus is EQUAL with God! ONE GOD!! Exodus 20:3 (above)

.................................................................................
Dictionary Dot Com
EQUAL
As great as; the same as (often followed by to or with ): The velocity of sound is not equal to that of light.
................................................................................

Jesus is as great as God!
Jesus is the SAME as God!!
Jesus is EQUAL to God because; Jesus IS GOD!!
Conclusion: Nothing is equal to God! Jesus is EQUAL, Jesus is GOD!!!

God is ONE!!!!
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

Make DISCIPLES with the AUTHORITY of the FATHER in his name!
Make DISCIPLES with the AUTHORITY of the SON in his name!
Make DISCIPLES with the AUTHORITY of the HOLY SPIRIT in his name!
Speaking for God, in God' name, with all of God' authority.. Make DISCIPLES!

God is ONE thus Jesus is GOD!

Elizabeth tells you "Mary is the mother of GOD!"
Luke 1:43
But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Jesus is named Immanuel!!!
Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

chriibe QUESTION what does the name Immanuel mean!!??

chriibe Jesus is GOD, the second person of the blessed trinity! Scriptures have to be twisted by the JW's to say different!!!

Dogknox

chriibe I add...
The Early Church Father's taught; Jesus is GOD!
Irenaeus Is NOT a Jehovah Witness, there was NO JW's two thousand years ago!
Irenaeus is Christian, Christians believed as the Apostles TAUGHT.. "Jesus is GOD!"

Irenaeus said...
"The Virgin Mary, being obedient to his word, received from an angel the glad tidings that she would bear God" (Against Heresies, 5:19:1 [A.D. 189]).

chriibe It looks as though Irenaeus would call the Jehovah Witness and their "Watch Tower Society": HERETIC!
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12/23/2012 4:45:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 8:16:23 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Irenaeus is Christian, Christians believed as the Apostles TAUGHT.. "Jesus is GOD!"

The Story book apostles taught & believed NO such a thing!
chriibe
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12/24/2012 9:47:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/23/2012 4:45:17 AM, Composer wrote:
At 12/22/2012 8:16:23 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Irenaeus is Christian, Christians believed as the Apostles TAUGHT.. "Jesus is GOD!"

The Story book apostles taught & believed NO such a thing!

Composer, all you talk is nonsense Where the heck is your gaddamned proof?? Dognox is right, they believed that Jesus is God...
PROOF:
The Early Church Fathers believed and taught that Jesus Christ, as the second person of the Trinity, was God. He spoke with the authority of God and did things that only God could do. It is the reason why He was accused of blasphemy.
Ignatius of Antioch:
Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . predestined from eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).
For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God's plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit (ibid., 18:2).
To the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God, by the will of him that has willed everything which is (Letter to the Romans 1 [A.D. 110]).
Aristides
[Christians] are they who, above every people of the earth, have found the truth, for they acknowledge God, the Creator and maker of all things, in the only-begotten Son and in the Holy Spirit (Apology 16 [A.D. 140]).
Tatian the Syrian
We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man (Address to the Greeks 21 [A.D. 170]).
Melito of Sardis
It is no way necessary in dealing with persons of intelligence to adduce the actions of Christ after his baptism as proof that his soul and his body, his human nature, were like ours, real and not phantasmal. The activities of Christ after his baptism, and especially his miracles, gave indication and assurance to the world of the deity hidden in his flesh. Being God and likewise perfect man, he gave positive indications of his two natures: of his deity by the miracles during the three years following after his baptism, of his humanity in the thirty years which came before his baptism during which, by reason of his condition according to the flesh, he concealed the signs of his deity, although he was the true God existing before the ages (Fragment in Anastasius of Sinai's The Guide 13 [A.D. 177]).
Irenaeus
For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, Father Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth and sea and all that is in them; and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who announced through the prophets the dispensations and the comings, and the birth from a Virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the bodily ascension into heaven of the beloved Christ Jesus our Lord, and his coming from heaven in the glory of the Father to reestablish all things; and the raising up again of all flesh of all humanity, in order that to Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior and King, in accord with the approval of the invisible Father, every knee shall bend of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).
Clement of Alexandria
The Word, then, the Christ, is the cause both of our ancient beginning " for he was in God " and of our well-being. And now this same Word has appeared as man. He alone is both God and man, and the source of all our good things (Exhortation to the Greeks 1:7:1 [A.D. 190]).
Despised as to appearance but in reality adored, [Jesus is") the expiator, the Savior, the soother, the divine Word, he that is quite evidently true God, he that is put on a level with the Lord of the universe because he was his Son (ibid.,10:110:1).
Tertullian
The origins of both his substances display him as man and as God: From the one, born, and from the other, not born (The Flesh of Christ 5:6-7 [A.D. 210]).
That there are two gods and two Lords, however, is a statement which we will never allow to issue from our mouth; not as if the Father and the Son were not God, nor the Spirit God, and each of them God; but formerly two were spoken of as gods and two as Lords, so that when Christ would come, he might both be acknowledged as God and be called Lord, because he is the Son of him who is both God and Lord (Against Praxeas 13:6 [A.D. 216]).
Origen
Although he was God, he took flesh; and having been made man, he remained what he was: God (On First Principles 1:0:4 [A.D. 225]).
Hippolytus
Only [God's] Word is from himself and is therefore also God, becoming the substance of God (Refutation of All Heresies 10:33 [A.D. 228]).
For Christ is the God over all, who has arranged to wash away sin from mankind, rendering the old man new (ibid. 10:34).
Cyprian of Carthage
One who denies that Christ is God cannot become his temple [of the Holy Spiriti . . . (Letters 73:12 [A.D. 253]).
Arnobius
"Well, then," some raging, angry, and excited man will say, "is that Christ your God?" "God indeed" we shall answer, "and God of the hidden powers" (Against the Pagans 1:42 [A.D. 305]).
Lactantius
He was made both Son of God in the spirit and Son of man in the flesh, that is, both God and man (Divine Institutes 4:13:5 [A.D. 307]).
Dogknox
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12/25/2012 4:42:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David"s throne
and over his kingdom,


Isaiah 9 tells us (above) "Jesus is Mighty God"!

Hebrews 1:5
For to which of the angels did God ever say,
"You are my Son;
today I have become your Father"?
Or again,
"I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son"?
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
"Let all God"s angels worship him."


Worship is for GOD ALONE!!
Hebrews 1:6 tells us...(above) The Angels Worship Jesus!

Jesus is God..
The Great Commission...
Go make Disciples of all nations BAPTIZING!!
Make Disciples Immersing them into the Body of Jesus!
Make DISCIPLES of all nations with the AUTHORITY of God, speaking for God in his NAME.. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!

Speaking for God, the Church makes DISCIPLES of all nations with all of God' authority, "I immerse you into Jesus' holy Church"!

Dogknox
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12/26/2012 12:45:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Those who believe the Story book jebus = Story book god, then these sicko disgusting bastards actually believe & try to teach others that their god had sex, albeit it spiritual sex, with its own Mother!

Your vindicated mentor & Saviour, moi!
chriibe
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12/26/2012 12:26:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/26/2012 12:45:45 AM, Composer wrote:
Those who believe the Story book jebus = Story book god, then these sicko disgusting bastards actually believe & try to teach others that their god had sex, albeit it spiritual sex, with its own Mother!

Your vindicated mentor & Saviour, moi!

Can you see your stupidity [no offence]? I used to think that you were brained but I was awfully wrong. God's Spirit overshadowed Mary and She had a Baby. Where did you see the so called "sex"? In fact why was she even called a virgin if she was purportedly "sexed" by your god? Even in Islam Mary is believed to be virgin even when She gave birth to Jesus Surah 3:45.... I think you really need to go and have a thorough rethink over your life "composer" because you do not know how to talk
Dogknox
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12/26/2012 12:33:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Luke 1:42
In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear!
43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my (GOD) Lord should come to me?


Scriptures are clear.... "Jesus is God" the second person of the blessed trinity!

Dogknox
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12/27/2012 7:43:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/24/2012 9:47:03 AM, chriibe wrote:
At 12/23/2012 4:45:17 AM, Composer wrote:
At 12/22/2012 8:16:23 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Irenaeus is Christian, Christians believed as the Apostles TAUGHT.. "Jesus is GOD!"

The Story book apostles taught & believed NO such a thing!

Composer, all you talk is nonsense Where the heck is your gaddamned proof?? Dognox is right, they believed that Jesus is God...

At first the Christian faith was not Trinitarian"It was not so in the apostolic and sub-apostolic ages, as reflected in the New Testament and other early Christian writings" (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, ed. James Hastings, 1922, Vol. 12, p. 461).

NB: FATAL to Dogknox & ALL catholics taken from their very own catholic Encyclopedia, LOL! -

"The formulation "One God in three Persons" was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.... Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective" (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. 14, p. 299).

"Fourth-century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary a deviation from this teaching" (The Encyclopedia Americana, p. 1956, p. 2941).

"The New Testament gives no inkling of the teaching of Chalcedon. That council not only reformulated in other language the New Testament data about Jesus" constitution, but also reconceptualized it in the light of the current Greek philosophical thinking. And that reconceptualization and reformulation go well beyond the New Testament data" (A Christological Catechism, Paulist Press, p. 102).

trinity remains in tatters at my feet!

The vindicated mentor & Saviour of ALL catholics & jebus wanna-be's, humble moi!
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12/27/2012 8:13:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/26/2012 12:26:07 PM, chriibe wrote:
At 12/26/2012 12:45:45 AM, Composer wrote:
Those who believe the Story book jebus = Story book god, then these sicko disgusting bastards actually believe & try to teach others that their god had sex, albeit it spiritual sex, with its own Mother!

Your vindicated mentor & Saviour, moi!

At 12/26/2012 12:26:07 PM, chriibe wrote:
Can you see your stupidity [no offence]?

My already 50 years successfully busting EVERY religious & Cult ideology proves only my vindication!

At 12/26/2012 12:26:07 PM, chriibe wrote:
I used to think that you were brained but I was awfully wrong.

I am fortunately ' brained ' as you put it, but also benevolent & continue to freely preach the vindicated Truth still!

At 12/26/2012 12:26:07 PM, chriibe wrote:
God's Spirit overshadowed Mary and She had a Baby.

Only Pagan god's had literal babies & so called xtianity borrowed that Pagan Myth for itself!

According to Matthew (Matt 1:18-20) Mary was pregnant and with child prior to her marriage to Joseph. He decides to marry her and later divorce her quietly to avoid shaming her. In Mary's world an unmarried pregnant woman was considered to be a harlot and she was deserving of death. Apparently Joseph did not want her being stoned by the villagers and so he married her to preserve her life.

Deuteronomy 22:20-21 RSV

"...if...the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of the city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has wrought folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; so shall you purge evil from the midst of you."

What do you think the chances would have been in Mary's world of her fellow-villagers swallowing a tall tale that she was pregnant by the Holy Spirit? I doubt they would have believed her and she would have been stoned to death. And had she been allowed to live and give birth to her child, he would be known to all in the village as being a bastard and therefore shunned and denied entry into the Holy Congregation (the local Synagogue) on the basis of Deuteronomy 23:2-3.

At 12/26/2012 12:26:07 PM, chriibe wrote:
Where did you see the so called "sex"?

Story book Mary was betrothed to Story book Joseph.

The Pagan - Greek metaphysical based trinitarian h-s person Spiritually raped her, made her pregnant, refused to Marry her, but instead dumped their bastard child on to the Cuckold Joseph, and then handed over the soiled goods Mary to him to care for both of them!

At 12/26/2012 12:26:07 PM, chriibe wrote:
In fact why was she even called a virgin if she was purportedly "sexed" by your god?

The catholic Cult propaganda machine in full swing! (Immaculate conception BS)

At 12/26/2012 12:26:07 PM, chriibe wrote:
Even in Islam Mary is believed to be virgin even when She gave birth to Jesus Surah 3:45....

And the legitimate evidence ANY acclaimed ' holy-text ' are the words of ANY Supernatural god(s) given to man remains a constant zero, whilst blatant propaganda tries to quash reality!

At 12/26/2012 12:26:07 PM, chriibe wrote:
I think you really need to go and have a thorough rethink over your life "composer" because you do not know how to talk

I remain 100% vindicated!

My advice to those like you now is to ' start thinking for yourselves & cease believing in religious Cult propoganda!
TheAntidoter
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12/27/2012 9:56:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/27/2012 8:13:40 PM, Composer wrote:
At 12/26/2012 12:26:07 PM, chriibe wrote:
At 12/26/2012 12:45:45 AM, Composer wrote:
Those who believe the Story book jebus = Story book god, then these sicko disgusting bastards actually believe & try to teach others that their god had sex, albeit it spiritual sex, with its own Mother!

Your vindicated mentor & Saviour, moi!

At 12/26/2012 12:26:07 PM, chriibe wrote:
Can you see your stupidity [no offence]?

My already 50 years successfully busting EVERY religious & Cult ideology proves only my vindication!


At 12/26/2012 12:26:07 PM, chriibe wrote:
I used to think that you were brained but I was awfully wrong.

I am fortunately ' brained ' as you put it, but also benevolent & continue to freely preach the vindicated Truth still!

At 12/26/2012 12:26:07 PM, chriibe wrote:
God's Spirit overshadowed Mary and She had a Baby.

Only Pagan god's had literal babies & so called xtianity borrowed that Pagan Myth for itself!

According to Matthew (Matt 1:18-20) Mary was pregnant and with child prior to her marriage to Joseph. He decides to marry her and later divorce her quietly to avoid shaming her. In Mary's world an unmarried pregnant woman was considered to be a harlot and she was deserving of death. Apparently Joseph did not want her being stoned by the villagers and so he married her to preserve her life.

Deuteronomy 22:20-21 RSV

"...if...the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of the city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has wrought folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; so shall you purge evil from the midst of you."

What do you think the chances would have been in Mary's world of her fellow-villagers swallowing a tall tale that she was pregnant by the Holy Spirit? I doubt they would have believed her and she would have been stoned to death. And had she been allowed to live and give birth to her child, he would be known to all in the village as being a bastard and therefore shunned and denied entry into the Holy Congregation (the local Synagogue) on the basis of Deuteronomy 23:2-3.

At 12/26/2012 12:26:07 PM, chriibe wrote:
Where did you see the so called "sex"?

Story book Mary was betrothed to Story book Joseph.

The Pagan - Greek metaphysical based trinitarian h-s person Spiritually raped her, made her pregnant, refused to Marry her, but instead dumped their bastard child on to the Cuckold Joseph, and then handed over the soiled goods Mary to him to care for both of them!


At 12/26/2012 12:26:07 PM, chriibe wrote:
In fact why was she even called a virgin if she was purportedly "sexed" by your god?

The catholic Cult propaganda machine in full swing! (Immaculate conception BS)

At 12/26/2012 12:26:07 PM, chriibe wrote:
Even in Islam Mary is believed to be virgin even when She gave birth to Jesus Surah 3:45....

And the legitimate evidence ANY acclaimed ' holy-text ' are the words of ANY Supernatural god(s) given to man remains a constant zero, whilst blatant propaganda tries to quash reality!


At 12/26/2012 12:26:07 PM, chriibe wrote:
I think you really need to go and have a thorough rethink over your life "composer" because you do not know how to talk

I remain 100% vindicated!

My advice to those like you now is to ' start thinking for yourselves & cease believing in religious Cult propoganda!

By the way, you just contradicted yourself.
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Nac.

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