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suicide

tmhustler
Posts: 68
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10/20/2009 12:14:57 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
did jesus commit suicide? suppose the real question is if you could prevent yourself from dieing but chose not to is it suicide? or if you knew that by doing something (preaching you were gods son) it would result in your death and did it anyway would you be committing suicide?
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tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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10/20/2009 10:12:26 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
If i stand in the middle of the railway, knowing that i will eventualy be run over by a train, is that suicide? Yes.

So in my opinion, yes, Jesus did commit suicide.
crackofdawn_Jr
Posts: 1,350
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10/20/2009 2:43:50 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/20/2009 10:12:26 AM, tkubok wrote:
If i stand in the middle of the railway, knowing that i will eventualy be run over by a train, is that suicide? Yes.

So in my opinion, yes, Jesus did commit suicide.

Not quite. He actually sacrificed himself which is different than what we would call suicide.
i.e.

Inside a bank there's a hostage situation. The robbers are getting panicked and they bring up there gun to shoot at a pregnant woman. A man nearby jumps in front of her and takes the bullet himself and just then the police come in and shoot the robbers. Yes, the man knowingly jumped in front of a bullet he knew would probably kill him but he did it to safe a life. This is sacrifice, not suicide.

The same applies to Jesus accept he sacrificed himself for everybody.
There are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics"
-Mark Twain

"If at first you don't succeed, redefine success"

"Therefore love moderately. Long love doth so.
Too swift arrives as tardy as too slow."
- William Shakespeare

"There must be no majority decisions, but only responsible persons, and the word 'council' must be restored to its original meaning. Surely every man will have advisers by his side, but the decision will be made by one man."
- Adolf Hitler
crackofdawn_Jr
Posts: 1,350
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10/20/2009 2:53:01 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/20/2009 2:49:38 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Unless he crucified himself, it's not suicide. he even said "God WTF?"

lol
There are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics"
-Mark Twain

"If at first you don't succeed, redefine success"

"Therefore love moderately. Long love doth so.
Too swift arrives as tardy as too slow."
- William Shakespeare

"There must be no majority decisions, but only responsible persons, and the word 'council' must be restored to its original meaning. Surely every man will have advisers by his side, but the decision will be made by one man."
- Adolf Hitler
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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10/20/2009 3:03:31 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/20/2009 2:53:01 PM, crackofdawn_Jr wrote:
At 10/20/2009 2:49:38 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Unless he crucified himself, it's not suicide. he even said "God WTF?"

lol

Jesus sacrificed Himself to save our sins. I can't believe you would think Jesus did that as suicide.
crackofdawn_Jr
Posts: 1,350
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10/20/2009 3:28:22 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/20/2009 3:03:31 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 10/20/2009 2:53:01 PM, crackofdawn_Jr wrote:
At 10/20/2009 2:49:38 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Unless he crucified himself, it's not suicide. he even said "God WTF?"

lol

Jesus sacrificed Himself to save our sins. I can't believe you would think Jesus did that as suicide.

He didn't, do you understand what Panda is saying. He's saying that IF he crucified himself it could be counted as suicide and he even complained to God about getting killed.
There are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics"
-Mark Twain

"If at first you don't succeed, redefine success"

"Therefore love moderately. Long love doth so.
Too swift arrives as tardy as too slow."
- William Shakespeare

"There must be no majority decisions, but only responsible persons, and the word 'council' must be restored to its original meaning. Surely every man will have advisers by his side, but the decision will be made by one man."
- Adolf Hitler
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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10/20/2009 5:50:43 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/20/2009 3:03:31 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 10/20/2009 2:53:01 PM, crackofdawn_Jr wrote:
At 10/20/2009 2:49:38 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Unless he crucified himself, it's not suicide. he even said "God WTF?"

lol

Jesus sacrificed Himself to save our sins.

So it's been alleged...
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
crackofdawn_Jr
Posts: 1,350
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10/20/2009 5:56:41 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/20/2009 5:50:43 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 10/20/2009 3:03:31 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 10/20/2009 2:53:01 PM, crackofdawn_Jr wrote:
At 10/20/2009 2:49:38 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Unless he crucified himself, it's not suicide. he even said "God WTF?"

lol

Jesus sacrificed Himself to save our sins.

So it's been alleged...

Yep, and I choose to believe that was why he died. If that wasn't, it could very well be considered suicide.
There are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics"
-Mark Twain

"If at first you don't succeed, redefine success"

"Therefore love moderately. Long love doth so.
Too swift arrives as tardy as too slow."
- William Shakespeare

"There must be no majority decisions, but only responsible persons, and the word 'council' must be restored to its original meaning. Surely every man will have advisers by his side, but the decision will be made by one man."
- Adolf Hitler
tmhustler
Posts: 68
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10/20/2009 11:32:42 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Unless he crucified himself, it's not suicide. he even said "God WTF?" this seams like assisted suicide like weaving a gun in front of a cop and saying you will shoot them
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Puck
Posts: 6,457
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10/20/2009 11:45:38 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
You can't however claim both the wtf and sacrifice, as sacrifice presupposes intent. Otherwise it's just an accident of circumstance.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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10/21/2009 1:35:06 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
You can BE sacrificed and say wtf.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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10/21/2009 1:43:09 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/21/2009 1:35:06 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
You can BE sacrificed and say wtf.

Haha. And besides, sacrificing yourself is still suicide - suicide is an act while sacrificing is a more precise version of suicide, namely detailing the motive behind the suicide.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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10/21/2009 2:25:41 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/20/2009 3:03:31 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 10/20/2009 2:53:01 PM, crackofdawn_Jr wrote:
At 10/20/2009 2:49:38 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Unless he crucified himself, it's not suicide. he even said "God WTF?"

lol

Jesus sacrificed Himself to save our sins. I can't believe you would think Jesus did that as suicide.

That doesn't even make sense. "Save our sins"? rofl.

.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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10/21/2009 6:56:28 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/20/2009 2:43:50 PM, crackofdawn_Jr wrote:
At 10/20/2009 10:12:26 AM, tkubok wrote:
If i stand in the middle of the railway, knowing that i will eventualy be run over by a train, is that suicide? Yes.

So in my opinion, yes, Jesus did commit suicide.

Not quite. He actually sacrificed himself which is different than what we would call suicide.
i.e.

Inside a bank there's a hostage situation. The robbers are getting panicked and they bring up there gun to shoot at a pregnant woman. A man nearby jumps in front of her and takes the bullet himself and just then the police come in and shoot the robbers. Yes, the man knowingly jumped in front of a bullet he knew would probably kill him but he did it to safe a life. This is sacrifice, not suicide.

The same applies to Jesus accept he sacrificed himself for everybody.

This is the problem though. There is no evidence to show that Jesus sacrificed himself for anything. If i jump infront of a truck, and believe that my death will prevent the future Hitler in me to commit a thousand murders, is that a sacrifice, or a suicide? Can anyone tell the difference, other than me?
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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10/21/2009 11:46:27 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Jesus was crucified by force. Is a firing squad now suicide? After all you didn't move.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
tmhustler
Posts: 68
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10/21/2009 12:52:08 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/21/2009 11:46:27 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Jesus was crucified by force. Is a firing squad now suicide? After all you didn't move.

yea but if you can escape that firing squad at any point in time and don't are you not choosing to die at that time
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I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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10/21/2009 1:00:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/21/2009 12:52:08 PM, tmhustler wrote:
At 10/21/2009 11:46:27 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Jesus was crucified by force. Is a firing squad now suicide? After all you didn't move.

yea but if you can escape that firing squad at any point in time and don't are you not choosing to die at that time

No, it's sacrificing yourself. Unless I put gun to my head, it isn't suicide.

I understand the "Don't go out there, it's suicide!". But in reality it's sacrifice.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Emorose
Posts: 81
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10/31/2009 5:13:53 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/20/2009 12:14:57 AM, tmhustler wrote:
did jesus commit suicide?

lol I've often wondered that but mom gets mad at me if I even ask her, cause it's anti christian to question it.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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10/31/2009 5:25:06 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 5:13:53 PM, Emorose wrote:
At 10/20/2009 12:14:57 AM, tmhustler wrote:
did jesus commit suicide?

lol I've often wondered that but mom gets mad at me if I even ask her, cause it's anti christian to question it.

Then your mom is a close minded Christian with the Theological capacity of a walnut.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
audrina1000
Posts: 9
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10/31/2009 9:15:19 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/20/2009 12:14:57 AM, tmhustler wrote:
did Jesus commit suicide? suppose the real question is if you could prevent yourself from dieing but chose not to is it suicide? or if you knew that by doing something (preaching you were gods son) it would result in your death and did it anyway would you be committing suicide?

that's stupid! if Jesus commuted suicide then he would be in hell. he did what he came on the earth to do. suicide is if I got a rope and hung myself or took every pill in my medicine cabinet that's killing yourself.
tkubok
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10/31/2009 9:20:09 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 9:15:19 PM, audrina1000 wrote:
that's stupid! if Jesus commuted suicide then he would be in hell. he did what he came on the earth to do. suicide is if I got a rope and hung myself or took every pill in my medicine cabinet that's killing yourself.

So, its not suicide if I close my eyes and run straight across the highway?
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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10/31/2009 9:21:21 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 9:20:09 PM, tkubok wrote:
So, its not suicide if I close my eyes and run straight across the highway?

Vehicular manslaughter.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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10/31/2009 9:21:45 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 9:20:09 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 10/31/2009 9:15:19 PM, audrina1000 wrote:
that's stupid! if Jesus commuted suicide then he would be in hell. he did what he came on the earth to do. suicide is if I got a rope and hung myself or took every pill in my medicine cabinet that's killing yourself.

So, its not suicide if I close my eyes and run straight across the highway?

That would be called stupidity ;)
tkubok
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10/31/2009 9:23:50 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 9:21:45 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 10/31/2009 9:20:09 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 10/31/2009 9:15:19 PM, audrina1000 wrote:
that's stupid! if Jesus commuted suicide then he would be in hell. he did what he came on the earth to do. suicide is if I got a rope and hung myself or took every pill in my medicine cabinet that's killing yourself.

So, its not suicide if I close my eyes and run straight across the highway?

That would be called stupidity ;)

Its a simple yes or no question. Ill take that as a Yes.

So, if i ran around the highway with my eyes closed, knowing that i will be hit by a truck, its suicide. But if i go to a police station, knowing that they will shoot me on the spot because i have a gun in my hand, its not suicide? How does that work?

At 10/31/2009 9:21:21 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 10/31/2009 9:20:09 PM, tkubok wrote:
So, its not suicide if I close my eyes and run straight across the highway?

Vehicular manslaughter.

For the driver, yes.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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10/31/2009 9:24:21 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
sacrifice-the surrender or destruction of something prized or desirable for the sake of something considered as having a higher or more pressing claim.

Jesus believed that the sake of peoples' sins was a higher claim than his earthly body. Jesus sacrificed for us, be grateful you little atheists.
mattrodstrom
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10/31/2009 9:26:40 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I happen to be an atheist, and being that the only historical documents on the matter are that Jesus was executed I don't see why anyone would contend otherwise.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
tkubok
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10/31/2009 9:31:42 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 9:24:21 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
sacrifice-the surrender or destruction of something prized or desirable for the sake of something considered as having a higher or more pressing claim.

Jesus believed that the sake of peoples' sins was a higher claim than his earthly body. Jesus sacrificed for us, be grateful you little atheists.

So, are you saying that it was impossible for God to say "Alright Everyone, i forgive you, no blood sacrifice needed"?
Harlan
Posts: 1,880
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10/31/2009 9:32:22 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Well, in a real-world sense, he would probably be powerless to not be killed, and if he did not mentally resist it would be more the result of fatalism than suicidal thoughts. I would call that accepting the decisions of others.

In a mythical sense, he would have known that he would not die, since apparently he's not dead.
tkubok
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10/31/2009 9:35:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 9:24:21 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
sacrifice-the surrender or destruction of something prized or desirable for the sake of something considered as having a higher or more pressing claim.

Jesus believed that the sake of peoples' sins was a higher claim than his earthly body. Jesus sacrificed for us, be grateful you little atheists.

Oh, and by the way,

"I will sacrifice myself so that you guys can escape"

is still suicide.

What, did you think there was no overlap?