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Matthew 16: 27-28

Wallstreetatheist
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12/22/2012 1:16:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Matthew 16: 27-28

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

28 "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Here Jesus himself specifies unambiguously that his second coming will occur within the lifetimes of his apostles. It can't be interpreted to mean us as meptahorical apostles because he specifically says "some of you standing here", as in the people he was talking to at that time. The full context reinforces that. It can't be interpreted to refer to the transfiguration because the events described in verse 27 don't happen at the transfiguration. Daniel's visions don't satisfy the claim either because while they depict seven apocalyptic creatures, nowhere does Daniel's vision describe Christ's return.

It's irrefutable disproof of the divinity of Christ, there's no workable way out of it and it references scripture rather than science so they can't dismiss it as inapplicable.

It has never failed me. While it doesn't produce on the spot concessions, nor do they continue to argue. It has tremendous "stopping power," and they'll usually conclude with "I need to go research this myself and then get back to you," which they never do.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else. It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible."
-C. S. Lewis, The World"s Last Night and Other Essays (New York: Harcourt Brace & Company, 1973), 98.
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AlwaysMoreThanYou
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12/22/2012 5:13:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
You've never spoken to annanicole, have you?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Dirty.Harry
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12/22/2012 11:47:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 1:16:27 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Matthew 16: 27-28

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

28 "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Here Jesus himself specifies unambiguously that his second coming will occur within the lifetimes of his apostles. It can't be interpreted to mean us as meptahorical apostles because he specifically says "some of you standing here", as in the people he was talking to at that time. The full context reinforces that. It can't be interpreted to refer to the transfiguration because the events described in verse 27 don't happen at the transfiguration. Daniel's visions don't satisfy the claim either because while they depict seven apocalyptic creatures, nowhere does Daniel's vision describe Christ's return.

It's irrefutable disproof of the divinity of Christ, there's no workable way out of it and it references scripture rather than science so they can't dismiss it as inapplicable.

It has never failed me. While it doesn't produce on the spot concessions, nor do they continue to argue. It has tremendous "stopping power," and they'll usually conclude with "I need to go research this myself and then get back to you," which they never do.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else. It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible."
-C. S. Lewis, The World"s Last Night and Other Essays (New York: Harcourt Brace & Company, 1973), 98.

Except there is more to this than might at first appear, consider Hebrews 9:27

"Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment..."

What happens at the judgement? lets see Rev 2:11

"He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death."

I think this forces us to consider that Christ in Mat 16 may well be referring to the second death, we need to explore and strive to understand this more and we can perhaps avoid what might be a misunderstanding of Mat 16.

Harry.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,078
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12/22/2012 12:32:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 1:16:27 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Matthew 16: 27-28

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

28 "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Here Jesus himself specifies unambiguously that his second coming will occur within the lifetimes of his apostles. It can't be interpreted to mean us as meptahorical apostles because he specifically says "some of you standing here", as in the people he was talking to at that time. The full context reinforces that. It can't be interpreted to refer to the transfiguration because the events described in verse 27 don't happen at the transfiguration. Daniel's visions don't satisfy the claim either because while they depict seven apocalyptic creatures, nowhere does Daniel's vision describe Christ's return.

It's irrefutable disproof of the divinity of Christ, there's no workable way out of it and it references scripture rather than science so they can't dismiss it as inapplicable.

It has never failed me. While it doesn't produce on the spot concessions, nor do they continue to argue. It has tremendous "stopping power," and they'll usually conclude with "I need to go research this myself and then get back to you," which they never do.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else. It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible."
-C. S. Lewis, The World"s Last Night and Other Essays (New York: Harcourt Brace & Company, 1973), 98.

I reply:
28 "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Could the "COMING in the Kingdom" be the Holy Spirit bringing the KINGDOM down to earth, on Pentecost!

Wallstreetatheist consider this: The KINGDOM of Jesus is on earth, fifty days AFTER the ascensions, The Holy Spirit empowers the CHURCH on Pentecost, thus the "Kingdom has come"! Those with Jesus.. Standing there with him in Matthew 16 are empowered on Pentecost on the birthday of the Holy Church!

Matthew 28:20
and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

Jesus is ALWAYS with his BODY... To the very end of the world!
Jesus will never ever abandon his CHURCH!
Satan will never, ever TAKE Jesus' body form Jesus!
The KINGDOM has COME on earth as it is in Heaven!

Dogknox
iamnotwhoiam
Posts: 171
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12/22/2012 4:35:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 12:32:18 PM, Dogknox wrote:

Could the "COMING in the Kingdom" be the Holy Spirit bringing the KINGDOM down to earth, on Pentecost!

The Holy Spirit is not the Son. The disciples do not see the Son of Man at the Pentecost.
Dogknox
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12/22/2012 8:31:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 4:37:02 PM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
Besides which, he's supposed to be coming with his angels to reward/punish everyone.
iamnotwhoiam Jesus said..
Matthew 28:20
and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

Jesus is ALWAYS with his BODY... To the very end of the world!
Jesus will never ever abandon his CHURCH!

Speaking about Jesus and Jesus' kingdom...
Luke 1:33
and he will reign over Jacob"s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end."

Jesus' KINGDOM on earth began at Pentecost!

John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever"

iamnotwhoiam Do you see it? Jesus is asking the Father, together "THEY" send the Holy Spirit to be with Jesus' KINGDOM FOREVER!

God Father, Son and Holy Spirit remain IN Jesus' KINGDOM FOREVER! God is with the KINGDOM... At Pentecost.
So Jesus tells the truth.. Some were present when Jesus (God) comes into his KINGDOM!

Matthew 16:21
From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

Matthew 16:28
"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

From the two verses (above) Jesus came into his KINGDOM when he was CRUCIFIED his KINGDOM on earth started at Pentecost!

Dogknox
iamnotwhoiam
Posts: 171
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12/22/2012 9:18:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dogknox, the reading of Matthew 16:28 has to take into account Matthew 16:27.

Jesus will be seen. Not represented, not there in spirit, not embodied by the church. Seen.

And when he is seen, he will be coming with angels. And he will be coming to reward(/punish) everyone.
s-anthony
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12/22/2012 9:39:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 12:32:18 PM, Dogknox wrote:
I reply:
28 "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Could the "COMING in the Kingdom" be the Holy Spirit bringing the KINGDOM down to earth, on Pentecost!

Wallstreetatheist consider this: The KINGDOM of Jesus is on earth, fifty days AFTER the ascensions, The Holy Spirit empowers the CHURCH on Pentecost, thus the "Kingdom has come"! Those with Jesus.. Standing there with him in Matthew 16 are empowered on Pentecost on the birthday of the Holy Church!

Matthew 28:20
and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

Jesus is ALWAYS with his BODY... To the very end of the world!
Jesus will never ever abandon his CHURCH!
Satan will never, ever TAKE Jesus' body form Jesus!
The KINGDOM has COME on earth as it is in Heaven!

Dogknox

The Son of man speaks of Christ as human; something that cannot be said of the Holy Spirit, and it's a complete contradiction of the Nicene Fathers to imply God, apart from Christ, is anyway human. So, no; the Christian Church has never referred to the Holy Spirit as the Son of man; in fact, it's an insult against the teaching, that, God is essentially divine and not a mere man.
malcolmxy
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12/22/2012 9:45:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 1:16:27 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Matthew 16: 27-28

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

28 "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Maybe he was referring to his (not often spoken of) early career in porn... (hey, he was young...he needed the money)
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errya
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12/23/2012 2:03:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The Apostles have not tasted death. They are alive in heaven.
The Most Noble Lord Horatio Nelson, Viscount and Baron Nelson, of the Nile and of Burnham Thorpe in the County of Norfolk, Baron Nelson of the Nile and of Hilborough in the said County, Knight of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath, Vice Admiral of the White Squadron of the Fleet, Commander in Chief of his Majesty's Ships and Vessels in the Mediterranean, Duke of Bront" in the Kingdom of Sicily, Knight Grand Cross of the Sicilian Order of St Ferdinand and of Merit, Member of the Ottoman Ord...
1Devilsadvocate
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12/23/2012 12:35:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/23/2012 2:03:41 AM, errya wrote:
The Apostles have not tasted death. They are alive in heaven.

+1.
I was thinking the same thing.
I'm not even christian, but this is a really obvious way of getting around this.

However, there is a bit of a problem with this answer.

Some Christians actually reject the new testament,
but accept the origional one (i.e. OT.)
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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Composer
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12/23/2012 5:01:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/23/2012 2:03:41 AM, errya wrote:
The Apostles have not tasted death. They are alive in heaven.

Pick your Story book preferred version & show us?
DanielChristopherBlowes
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12/23/2012 5:05:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 1:16:27 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Matthew 16: 27-28

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

28 "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Here Jesus himself specifies unambiguously that his second coming will occur within the lifetimes of his apostles. It can't be interpreted to mean us as meptahorical apostles because he specifically says "some of you standing here", as in the people he was talking to at that time. The full context reinforces that. It can't be interpreted to refer to the transfiguration because the events described in verse 27 don't happen at the transfiguration. Daniel's visions don't satisfy the claim either because while they depict seven apocalyptic creatures, nowhere does Daniel's vision describe Christ's return.

It's irrefutable disproof of the divinity of Christ, there's no workable way out of it and it references scripture rather than science so they can't dismiss it as inapplicable.

It has never failed me. While it doesn't produce on the spot concessions, nor do they continue to argue. It has tremendous "stopping power," and they'll usually conclude with "I need to go research this myself and then get back to you," which they never do.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else. It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible."
-C. S. Lewis, The World"s Last Night and Other Essays (New York: Harcourt Brace & Company, 1973), 98.

Jesus also said "no one knows the day, not even the son, only the father"

Do you really think we believe in Jesus and heaven etc because the Bible makes sense?

We believe the Bible because we've had a revelation of God's goodness.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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12/23/2012 5:08:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/23/2012 5:05:44 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
We believe the Bible because we've had a revelation of God's goodness.

John 20:29.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
DanielChristopherBlowes
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12/23/2012 5:12:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/23/2012 5:08:55 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 12/23/2012 5:05:44 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
We believe the Bible because we've had a revelation of God's goodness.

John 20:29.

How about we respectfully keep out of each others way?
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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12/23/2012 5:14:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/23/2012 5:12:54 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 12/23/2012 5:08:55 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 12/23/2012 5:05:44 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
We believe the Bible because we've had a revelation of God's goodness.

John 20:29.

How about we respectfully keep out of each others way?

You know you can't handle the truth, don't you?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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12/23/2012 5:16:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Going by the "Apes are Alive So Evolution is False" Principle of "are you sure the experts didn't notice that?" I have to point out that whoever wrote the Bible believed Jesus was the son of god. It'd be a little strange if he wrote down what he thought to be blatant disproof of the divinity of Jesus.
DanielChristopherBlowes
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12/23/2012 5:17:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/23/2012 5:14:08 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 12/23/2012 5:12:54 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 12/23/2012 5:08:55 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 12/23/2012 5:05:44 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
We believe the Bible because we've had a revelation of God's goodness.

John 20:29.

How about we respectfully keep out of each others way?

You know you can't handle the truth, don't you?

Yes, whatever you say..
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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12/23/2012 5:23:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/23/2012 5:16:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
Going by the "Apes are Alive So Evolution is False" Principle of "are you sure the experts didn't notice that?" I have to point out that whoever wrote the Bible believed Jesus was the son of god. It'd be a little strange if he wrote down what he thought to be blatant disproof of the divinity of Jesus.

I thought that at first too, but at the time Matthew wrote that, the kingdom was still at hand, so he wouldn't have thought that the prophecy was already supposed to have been fulfilled.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
DanielChristopherBlowes
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12/23/2012 5:25:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/23/2012 5:16:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
Going by the "Apes are Alive So Evolution is False" Principle of "are you sure the experts didn't notice that?" I have to point out that whoever wrote the Bible believed Jesus was the son of god. It'd be a little strange if he wrote down what he thought to be blatant disproof of the divinity of Jesus.

Some things can only be understood by direct revelation.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
Composer
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12/23/2012 6:19:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/23/2012 5:25:11 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 12/23/2012 5:16:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
Going by the "Apes are Alive So Evolution is False" Principle of "are you sure the experts didn't notice that?" I have to point out that whoever wrote the Bible believed Jesus was the son of god. It'd be a little strange if he wrote down what he thought to be blatant disproof of the divinity of Jesus.

Some things can only be understood by direct revelation.

As you claim to have had a direct revelation from a holy-spirit person, then why are you still cowering in your pit of lies & cowardice instead of proving your ministry to JREF as your preferred Story book commands you do?

It isn't rocket science to explain why those like you are disobedient failures - Your imagination has you hoodwinked in to believing what it has imagined is literally true, but when it comes to those like you proving your ministry; you run for cover, cowering in your deceptions & fanciful imaginings!!

Your vindicated mentor & literal Saviour moi!
stubs
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12/23/2012 8:44:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/23/2012 5:05:44 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
Do you really think we believe in Jesus and heaven etc because the Bible makes sense?

Hahhaha really?
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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12/25/2012 8:00:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/23/2012 8:44:34 PM, stubs wrote:
At 12/23/2012 5:05:44 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
Do you really think we believe in Jesus and heaven etc because the Bible makes sense?

Hahhaha really?

Gold.
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elisur
Posts: 144
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12/25/2012 8:39:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 1:16:27 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Matthew 16: 27-28

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

28 "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."


What is the meaning of "some who are standing here " standing in what lets us read above
(KJV) Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Thessalonians 4:15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first;
Thessalonians 4:17 then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.
Here Jesus himself specifies unambiguously that his second coming will occur within the lifetimes of his apostles. It can't be interpreted to mean us as meptahorical apostles because he specifically says "some of you standing here", as in the people he was talking to at that time. The full context reinforces that. It can't be interpreted to refer to the transfiguration because the events described in verse 27 don't happen at the transfiguration. Daniel's visions don't satisfy the claim either because while they depict seven apocalyptic creatures, nowhere does Daniel's vision describe Christ's return.

It's irrefutable disproof of the divinity of Christ, there's no workable way out of it and it references scripture rather than science so they can't dismiss it as inapplicable.

It has never failed me. While it doesn't produce on the spot concessions, nor do they continue to argue. It has tremendous "stopping power," and they'll usually conclude with "I need to go research this myself and then get back to you," which they never do.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else. It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible."
-C. S. Lewis, The World"s Last Night and Other Essays (New York: Harcourt Brace & Company, 1973), 98.
iamnotwhoiam
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12/26/2012 2:22:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/23/2012 5:25:11 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 12/23/2012 5:16:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
Going by the "Apes are Alive So Evolution is False" Principle of "are you sure the experts didn't notice that?" I have to point out that whoever wrote the Bible believed Jesus was the son of god. It'd be a little strange if he wrote down what he thought to be blatant disproof of the divinity of Jesus.

Some things can only be understood by direct revelation.

That voice in your head.
wilderness
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12/28/2012 1:43:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." (Matthew 16:28)

Some people have abandoned Jesus because of this verse. However, it is very simple to understand without writing a thesis or twisting things around. It only takes one verse to clear it up.

THE ANSWER IS VERY PLAIN! JESUS DID NOT LIE
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death." (John 8:51-52) --------------------------------------"

No righteous man, therefore, can ever "taste of death." He will fall into that deep oblivious sleep in which the body sees corruption; but that is another and a very different thing from the bitter cup referred to as tasting of death.

http://alindsey4.blogspot.com...
tigers2005
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12/28/2012 5:18:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well it is possible that he was referring to His Resurrection. In this case, it would be true that many of his disciples were alive to see this.
Paradox_7
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12/28/2012 8:57:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I didn't read all of the posts too throroughly, but I believe you are all mistaken.. lol

Christ is referring to the 'transfiguration' in Matthew 16. Theophany, is an english word which has roots in greek-- Theos (God) and Phainein (To appear), which merely means an appearence of God. This shouldn't be unfamiliar, since there are many instances of this throughout the bible; Moses and the burning bush, Abraham and the "smoking fire pot" or the "flaming torch".

Christs transfiguration, however, is much greater then those in the past, as is the theme of the NT; Christ is greater then all of the prophets before him.

Who is Christ speaking to in this verse? Peter, James, and John.

Did these people witness the transfiguration of Christ? Yes Matthew 17...

17 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.

...5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"

This is the event Christ is speaking of, and is supported by 2 Peter 1:16-18...

16 For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." 18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.

No problem here, just a simple misunderstanding on the OP's part.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
DanielChristopherBlowes
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12/29/2012 10:40:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/23/2012 8:44:34 PM, stubs wrote:
At 12/23/2012 5:05:44 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
Do you really think we believe in Jesus and heaven etc because the Bible makes sense?

Hahhaha really?

Yes, really.. This is is a judgment on human logic, not the Bible.
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)