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Muslims: Christians and Jews believers or not

Amica
Posts: 29
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12/28/2012 6:20:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Assalamu alaikum/peace to everyone--

First, I want to say that I am a Muslim and do not wish to preach Islam or any other faith! I just want to post my observations and a simple question, as I am confused.

1. Fact: Allah SWT commands believing men and women to marry only believers.
2. Fact: Allah SWT states in the Qur'an that Muslim men can marry women believers of Christian and Jewish faiths.

My confusion: If a woman believer who is either Christian or Jewish can be married, that means that she is allowed to stay in her faith (Judaism/Christianity). I can see how it can be a bit easier to marry a Jewish woman, as Jews and Muslims have similar understanding of their monotheistic beliefs. However, who is a Christian woman believer? If she believes in Trinity, then how can she be a believer considering Islam teaches that trinity is a false belief/disbelief?

I have yet to meet a Christian believer who does not believe in trinity. And majority of Muslim men who do marry Christian women marry the ones who believe trinity. Are these men deviating from the Qur'anic commandment?

Ok, that was two questions. Sorry. Just need help understanding this. Thank you! Wassalaam.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/28/2012 6:28:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
There are some Muslims who consider the Quranic verse allowing Muslims to marry Jewish and Christian women to only apply to the non-trinitarian ones. Zakir Naik is one of them. His reasoning is that other parts of the Quran forbid Muslims from marrying polytheists, which one could argue that trinitarians are.

But this view is likely false, since the Quran does not distinguish between the various forms of Christianity. Thus, a Christian woman can be married to a Muslim man, and he will not sin as a result.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,740
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12/28/2012 6:53:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2012 6:20:47 AM, Amica wrote:
Assalamu alaikum/peace to everyone--

First, I want to say that I am a Muslim and do not wish to preach Islam or any other faith! I just want to post my observations and a simple question, as I am confused.

1. Fact: Allah SWT commands believing men and women to marry only believers.
2. Fact: Allah SWT states in the Qur'an that Muslim men can marry women believers of Christian and Jewish faiths.

My confusion: If a woman believer who is either Christian or Jewish can be married, that means that she is allowed to stay in her faith (Judaism/Christianity). I can see how it can be a bit easier to marry a Jewish woman, as Jews and Muslims have similar understanding of their monotheistic beliefs. However, who is a Christian woman believer? If she believes in Trinity, then how can she be a believer considering Islam teaches that trinity is a false belief/disbelief?

I have yet to meet a Christian believer who does not believe in trinity. And majority of Muslim men who do marry Christian women marry the ones who believe trinity. Are these men deviating from the Qur'anic commandment?

Ok, that was two questions. Sorry. Just need help understanding this. Thank you! Wassalaam.

Response: The Qur'an is clear in stating that idolators are not to be married (2:221). Therefore, this would mean that any person from the ahle-kitab who rejects islam cannot be married, including trinitarians. Those who are permitted to be married are those who have accepted the teachings of the previous sriptures but have not rejected islam.

Hope that answers your question.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/28/2012 7:02:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I must also add - the Quran mentions that we can marry women among the believers, and women among the People of the Book. They are not believers of Islam. The person above is wrong for obvious reasons.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,740
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12/28/2012 7:26:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
All People of the Book are not disbelievers, as clearly stated in the Qur'an.

" Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.

They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous." (3:113-114).

What is supported by the Qur'an is clearly the true teachings of islam, unlike the post above.
Amica
Posts: 29
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12/28/2012 9:12:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Thank you for all your replies. When I read the Qur'an (translation of the interpretation, as Arabic is not my native language), my understanding is that trinitarian Christians are considered idolaters because they state Jesus to be "son of God," consider Jesus partial divine and continually believe God to be triune. Considering that at least 99% of Christians are trinitarians, wouldn't they fall into the rank of committing idolatry? Hence women trinitarians are forbidden?
Fatihah
Posts: 7,740
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12/28/2012 11:18:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2012 9:12:51 AM, Amica wrote:
Thank you for all your replies. When I read the Qur'an (translation of the interpretation, as Arabic is not my native language), my understanding is that trinitarian Christians are considered idolaters because they state Jesus to be "son of God," consider Jesus partial divine and continually believe God to be triune. Considering that at least 99% of Christians are trinitarians, wouldn't they fall into the rank of committing idolatry? Hence women trinitarians are forbidden?

Response: Absolutely. One must remember that the People of the Book being referred to for marriage are those who have accepted the teachings of the previous scriptures but have not rejected islam. In today's world, the likelihood of running into such a christian or jew is unlikely. So since the vast majority of Christians are trinitarians, or reject islam, they are forbidden to marriage. There are some christians who believe that God is one and do not accept partners with Allah, and do not reject islam. Rather, it is that islam has not reached them or they have not learned the religion. These christians would be allowed to marry.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/28/2012 3:37:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2012 11:18:53 AM, Fatihah wrote:
Response: Absolutely. One must remember that the People of the Book being referred to for marriage are those who have accepted the teachings of the previous scriptures but have not rejected islam.
Nonsense. You're welcome to refer me to any authentic source claiming what you just did.

In today's world, the likelihood of running into such a christian or jew is unlikely.
How much changed since the 6h century?

So since the vast majority of Christians are trinitarians, or reject islam,
Which they did during the revelation of the Quran.

they are forbidden to marriage.
No, nor do the vast majority of scholars hold this view. The number doesn't matter, just indicates that the general view has always been that any kind of Jewish or Christian woman can be married.

There are some christians who believe that God is one and do not accept partners with Allah, and do not reject islam.
Very rarely do you find non-trinitarians, even during the era of the Prophet (peace be upon him).

Rather, it is that islam has not reached them or they have not learned the religion. These christians would be allowed to marry.
Hmm -- unsubstantiated.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,740
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12/28/2012 3:54:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2012 3:37:27 PM, Mirza wrote:

Nonsense. You're welcome to refer me to any authentic source claiming what you just did.

Response: Verse 2:221 of the Qur'an forbids the marriage with idolators. Thus marriage with the People of the Book would be those who believe in the previous scriptures and who have not rejected islam. Debunked as usual.

How much changed since the 6h century?

Response: That's irrelevant to the fact that marriage with idolators is forbidden, which has not changed.

No, nor do the vast majority of scholars hold this view. The number doesn't matter, just indicates that the general view has always been that any kind of Jewish or Christian woman can be married.

In other words, you don't follow what the Qur'an and sunnah says, but follow what scholars say. That only means that both you and those scholars are not practicing islam appropriately. Thus your argument fails.

Very rarely do you find non-trinitarians, even during the era of the Prophet (peace be upon him).


Hmm -- unsubstantiated.

Response: Verse 2:221 proves otherwise, while your inability to refute it debunks your own idiocy.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/28/2012 3:59:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2012 3:54:12 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Response: Verse 2:221 of the Qur'an forbids the marriage with idolators.
With an exception.

Thus marriage with the People of the Book would be those who believe in the previous scriptures and who have not rejected islam. Debunked as usual.
You failed to provide any evidence - as usual.

Response: That's irrelevant to the fact that marriage with idolators is forbidden, which has not changed.
You said that "in today's world" there are few non-trinitarians. So what changed since the 6th century Ma'am?

In other words, you don't follow what the Qur'an and sunnah says, but follow what scholars say.
Uh oh.

That only means that both you and those scholars are not practicing islam appropriately. Thus your argument fails.
I'm starting to suspect you're a troll. No sane person says this.

Very rarely do you find non-trinitarians, even during the era of the Prophet (peace be upon him).
Did you read this? Read again.

Response: Verse 2:221 proves otherwise, while your inability to refute it debunks your own idiocy.
No it doesn't. The Quran says you can marry believing women, AND women among the People of the Book, who are clearly NOT believers. And there is NO reference which states that the verse only applies to non-trinitarians.

"Debunked as usual"

Yep keep hallucinating Ma'am.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,740
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12/28/2012 4:16:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2012 3:59:09 PM, Mirza wrote:

With an exception.

Thus proving my point that it does not refer to all the People of the Book, as you falsely stated. Debunked as usual.

You failed to provide any evidence - as usual.

Response: Yet your weak rebuttal suports evidence to the contrary.

You said that "in today's world" there are few non-trinitarians. So what changed since the 6th century Ma'am?

Response: Irrelevant to the fact that marriage with idolators is against islam, sis.

Uh oh.

I'm starting to suspect you're a troll. No sane person says this.

Response: Likewise.

Very rarely do you find non-trinitarians, even during the era of the Prophet (peace be upon him).
Did you read this? Read again.

Response: Which was debuked. Read again.

Response: Verse 2:221 proves otherwise, while your inability to refute it debunks your own idiocy.

No it doesn't. The Quran says you can marry believing women, AND women among the People of the Book, who are clearly NOT believers. And there is NO reference which states that the verse only applies to non-trinitarians.

To the contrary, the verse 5:51 says not to develop a close relationship with jews and Christians, Thus the verse could not possibly mean to marry non-believers from among the People of the Book. Debunked as usual.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/28/2012 4:25:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Last comment here, obviously this fella doesn't understand anything.

Thus proving my point that it does not refer to all the People of the Book, as you falsely stated. Debunked as usual.
The exception are the idolaters from among the People of the Book. Why don't you understand... Hmm.

Response: Yet your weak rebuttal suports evidence to the contrary.
If they are weak, that's because there's no evidence to refute! So -- let's get it going Ma'am. Bring your evidence. You can't.

Response: Irrelevant to the fact that marriage with idolators is against islam, sis.
But relevant to your comment that "today you don't find non-trinitarians." What's the difference between their amount now and 14 centuries ago?

To the contrary, the verse 5:51 says not to develop a close relationship with jews and Christians,
Oh God...

Thus the verse could not possibly mean to marry non-believers from among the People of the Book. Debunked as usual.
False! And here's why -- the verse comes from a point in history in which any relations with non-Muslims was deemed critical due to the repressive state of Muslims. And you seem to forget (or be unaware of) the verse which says that Christians (generally) are the closest to Muslims, and Jews the farthest. Clearly there is something historical going on. You have NO understanding of anything I'm talking about, apparently. You are hallucinating, debunking nothing, and... I'm out. Have a nice day Ma'am.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,740
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12/28/2012 4:34:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2012 4:25:43 PM, Mirza wrote:

The exception are the idolaters from among the People of the Book. Why don't you understand... Hmm.

Response: Exactly. Thus debunking your own claim that it doesn't, as you previously implied.

If they are weak, that's because there's no evidence to refute! So -- let's get it going Ma'am. Bring your evidence. You can't.

Response: The evidence was presented from verse 2:221 and verse 5:51 which states that idolaters are forbidden for marriage and jews and christians are not to be taken as friends. So marriage would only be alowed to the People of the Book who believe in the previous scriptures and do not reject islam. Debunked as usual.

But relevant to your comment that "today you don't find non-trinitarians." What's the difference between their amount now and 14 centuries ago?

Response: Still irrelevant to the fact that marriage with idolators is against islam.

False! And here's why -- the verse comes from a point in history in which any relations with non-Muslims was deemed critical due to the repressive state of Muslims. And you seem to forget (or be unaware of) the verse which says that Christians (generally) are the closest to Muslims, and Jews the farthest. Clearly there is something historical going on. You have NO understanding of anything I'm talking about, apparently. You are hallucinating, debunking nothing, and... I'm out. Have a nice day Ma'am.

Response: None of which has anything to do with what the verses say, which is befriending jews and Christians is against islam. So only a dummy would think Allah would say it's okay to marry them. Dummy. Stop embarrassing yourself. Debunked as usual.