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What would it take to convince you of god

anonynomous
Posts: 6
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12/30/2012 2:31:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So personally I'm an athiest but I recently saw a fourm asking about what it would take to shake ones faith which got me wondering what it would take to convince you guys of god. Personally I'm thinking conclusive scientific evedince or divine revelation.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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12/30/2012 3:00:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If I asked God for a pony and He gave me one, that would convince me for sure.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
tigers2005
Posts: 15
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12/30/2012 3:34:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I am already convinced of God, but personally, I think that the whole point is that you have to "convince" yourself, or accept it rather. Has a lot to do with personal faith. Keep in mind though this is coming from a Christian.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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12/30/2012 4:17:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Considering not a single person can legitimately say they sat down one day and consciously 'decided' to beleive in God, the thing that would make me beleive in God, is for him to give me exactly what he has given all the other people who beleive in him.

An epiphany.

I don't need objective proof for me to beleive.

Remember, I need objective proof for me prove he exists, but not to beleive he exist, one is science, one is religion.
Stephen_Hawkins
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12/30/2012 4:28:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is something I've constantly thought about - possibly moreso than the classical arguments - what is my standard. I think at the end of the day it is something I'll know when I have it. I imagine a rational argument can convince me, plausibly, after enough thought and meditation on the issue, but then again I know on many arguments my view of its success changes every few days. So basically intuition at the end of the day.
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Cometflash
Posts: 126
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12/30/2012 11:55:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/30/2012 4:17:26 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
Considering not a single person can legitimately say they sat down one day and consciously 'decided' to beleive in God, the thing that would make me beleive in God, is for him to give me exactly what he has given all the other people who beleive in him.

An epiphany.

I don't need objective proof for me to beleive.

Remember, I need objective proof for me prove he exists, but not to beleive he exist, one is science, one is religion.

Good reply.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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12/31/2012 12:20:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think the easiest way to get me to believe in some sort of God (at least, over the hard part of overturning assumptions) would involve showing beyond reasonable doubt that substance dualism is true and/or material-independent objects can be maintained after death.

So, for instance, if it had turned out that in Near Death Experience research, they had found that something could be remembered by a completely brain-dead person which cannot be explained by hallucinations just before brain death, I would consider the existence of a soul legitimate.

However, despite many trials and investigations of purported cases (like one myth about a woman seeing her shoes on the room) this has not been the case.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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12/31/2012 1:09:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Convince me the universe had a creator? That's not too hard. The idea that our universe was created by some sort of sentient entity isn't that tough of a concept to understand/believe (I've always figured it was a particularly clever 8th grader at a science fair of a REALLY advanced civilization).

Convince me of an all knowing, all powerful entity who gives a d@mn about what I do with my day? A unicorn sh!tting out a rainbow while impaling Karl Rove's chest with its horn would be a good place to start.
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Wallstreetatheist
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12/31/2012 2:51:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 12:20:43 AM, Wnope wrote:
I think the easiest way to get me to believe in some sort of God (at least, over the hard part of overturning assumptions) would involve showing beyond reasonable doubt that substance dualism is true and/or material-independent objects can be maintained after death.

Well, God's got his work cut out for him.
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malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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12/31/2012 8:07:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 2:51:01 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 12/31/2012 12:20:43 AM, Wnope wrote:
I think the easiest way to get me to believe in some sort of God (at least, over the hard part of overturning assumptions) would involve showing beyond reasonable doubt that substance dualism is true and/or material-independent objects can be maintained after death.

Well, God's got his work cut out for him.



f*ckin' Jung...I swear to God...
War is over, if you want it.

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drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/31/2012 8:13:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't know the precise minimal amount of stimuli required to make me believe in god, but I do know somethings that would do it.

For example, god, being omnipotent, could simply alter my brain such that I not only believe in him, but remember myself as always believing in him.

Easy, peasy. No evidence or argument required.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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12/31/2012 8:26:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 8:13:23 AM, drafterman wrote:
I don't know the precise minimal amount of stimuli required to make me believe in god, but I do know somethings that would do it.

For example, god, being omnipotent, could simply alter my brain such that I not only believe in him, but remember myself as always believing in him.

Easy, peasy. No evidence or argument required.

There are sound frequencies that I could subject you to which would do that. The human brain is super easy to manipulate. It doesn't take a god to do what you require - just a twisted psychiatrist.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
drafterman
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12/31/2012 11:12:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 8:26:24 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 12/31/2012 8:13:23 AM, drafterman wrote:
I don't know the precise minimal amount of stimuli required to make me believe in god, but I do know somethings that would do it.

For example, god, being omnipotent, could simply alter my brain such that I not only believe in him, but remember myself as always believing in him.

Easy, peasy. No evidence or argument required.

There are sound frequencies that I could subject you to which would do that. The human brain is super easy to manipulate. It doesn't take a god to do what you require - just a twisted psychiatrist.

If you are talking about what I think you are talking about, I am aware of frequencies which can induce certain emotional states that have provided an explanatory basis for perceived "hauntings" but that is far from inducing a specific belief in a specific god that overwrites my memories.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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12/31/2012 2:03:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 11:12:25 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/31/2012 8:26:24 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 12/31/2012 8:13:23 AM, drafterman wrote:
I don't know the precise minimal amount of stimuli required to make me believe in god, but I do know somethings that would do it.

For example, god, being omnipotent, could simply alter my brain such that I not only believe in him, but remember myself as always believing in him.

Easy, peasy. No evidence or argument required.

There are sound frequencies that I could subject you to which would do that. The human brain is super easy to manipulate. It doesn't take a god to do what you require - just a twisted psychiatrist.

If you are talking about what I think you are talking about, I am aware of frequencies which can induce certain emotional states that have provided an explanatory basis for perceived "hauntings" but that is far from inducing a specific belief in a specific god that overwrites my memories.

They're "spiritual experiences", and even after being told how they happened, people still believe they are real.

Plus, the brainwashing will overwrite your memories. It's pretty easy to do...especially with humans. When shown a picture of Tien ah Minh Square displaying large crowds on both sides of the lines of tanks which threatened to trample the lone protester, 70% of people were convinced they had always been there.

The human brain, more than anything else, wants to conform, and it will rewrite the past to do it.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/31/2012 2:40:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 2:03:50 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 12/31/2012 11:12:25 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/31/2012 8:26:24 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 12/31/2012 8:13:23 AM, drafterman wrote:
I don't know the precise minimal amount of stimuli required to make me believe in god, but I do know somethings that would do it.

For example, god, being omnipotent, could simply alter my brain such that I not only believe in him, but remember myself as always believing in him.

Easy, peasy. No evidence or argument required.

There are sound frequencies that I could subject you to which would do that. The human brain is super easy to manipulate. It doesn't take a god to do what you require - just a twisted psychiatrist.

If you are talking about what I think you are talking about, I am aware of frequencies which can induce certain emotional states that have provided an explanatory basis for perceived "hauntings" but that is far from inducing a specific belief in a specific god that overwrites my memories.

They're "spiritual experiences", and even after being told how they happened, people still believe they are real.

Plus, the brainwashing will overwrite your memories. It's pretty easy to do...especially with humans. When shown a picture of Tien ah Minh Square displaying large crowds on both sides of the lines of tanks which threatened to trample the lone protester, 70% of people were convinced they had always been there.

The human brain, more than anything else, wants to conform, and it will rewrite the past to do it.

This is all fascinating, but, you didn't ask for my being convinced to be reflective of truth. Whatever it takes to get me to belief is required to get me to belief, whether or not it's based upon truth.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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12/31/2012 2:56:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
...a date with Popculturepooka :/
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: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
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malcolmxy
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12/31/2012 7:55:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 2:40:04 PM, drafterman wrote:

This is all fascinating, but, you didn't ask for my being convinced to be reflective of truth. Whatever it takes to get me to belief is required to get me to belief, whether or not it's based upon truth.

Word...if it was me, though, I'd want something more convincing than the abracadabra needed to mush up my brain enough to believe. On a certain level, though, you're totally right.
War is over, if you want it.

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drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/31/2012 8:21:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 7:55:14 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 12/31/2012 2:40:04 PM, drafterman wrote:

This is all fascinating, but, you didn't ask for my being convinced to be reflective of truth. Whatever it takes to get me to belief is required to get me to belief, whether or not it's based upon truth.

Word...if it was me, though, I'd want something more convincing than the abracadabra needed to mush up my brain enough to believe. On a certain level, though, you're totally right.

The thing is, if my brain was altered, then it would be as convincing as it could possibly be.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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1/1/2013 12:29:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It wouldn't take me too much to convince me of God. All I would need is a signal that is right at the edge of human understanding. Something that is at once comprehensible and incomprehensible to the greatest extent. That would lead me to believe in some greater power.
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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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1/1/2013 1:36:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 2:56:48 PM, socialpinko wrote:
...a date with Popculturepooka :/

If that somehow happens, I want a video.
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Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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1/1/2013 2:03:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm not interested in philosophy, so an argument wouldn't do it. I'd need some kind of personal experience. I can't say what the details would be, but I'd assume God would know how to do it pretty quickly.
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popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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1/1/2013 3:09:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 2:56:48 PM, socialpinko wrote:
...a date with Popculturepooka :/

Wait, what? o_O I'm heterosexual. Or are you saying that would be the miracle in and of itself...?
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socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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1/1/2013 3:40:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 3:09:37 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/31/2012 2:56:48 PM, socialpinko wrote:
...a date with Popculturepooka :/

Wait, what? o_O I'm heterosexual. Or are you saying that would be the miracle in and of itself...?

I don't think any of the classic arguments are gonna do it. I need a personal experience.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
SarcasticIndeed
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1/1/2013 3:47:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
A personal experience, arguments can only make me lean to a certain side a bit more, but they aren't gonna convert me, no matter how sound they seem.
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tkubok
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1/1/2013 3:58:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Personal experience. God comes down to me and has a discussion with me, and answers my questions and problems i have with his theology, and he answers sufficiently enough to convince me.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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1/1/2013 7:28:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 3:58:09 PM, tkubok wrote:
Personal experience. God comes down to me and has a discussion with me, and answers my questions and problems i have with his theology, and he answers sufficiently enough to convince me.

What does him answering your answers sufficiently have to do with it? The question was what would it take to convince you of God. If God came to you then it wouldn't matter if his answers were any good because he would obviously exist if he is answering any of your questions at all haha
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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1/2/2013 10:18:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
How about a finely tuned universe that depends so precisely on factors that are in harmony with each other....

Oh Wait Wait, we already have that. I am convinced.
Franz_Reynard
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1/2/2013 10:23:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/2/2013 10:18:04 AM, johnlubba wrote:
How about a finely tuned universe that depends so precisely on factors that are in harmony with each other....


Oh Wait Wait, we already have that. I am convinced.

Unless you can prove that it is possible for thing to achieve an ordered state despite disharmony without manufacture, then this argument is fallacious. It is just as important to prove the existence of an antithesis as it is to prove the facts underlying a thesis to prove its logical validity. Otherwise, it's naught more than theory.
Ramshutu
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1/2/2013 10:35:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/2/2013 10:18:04 AM, johnlubba wrote:
How about a finely tuned universe that depends so precisely on factors that are in harmony with each other....


Oh Wait Wait, we already have that. I am convinced.
.
God has been responsible for thousands of things that have completely defied explanation. Until someone smart came along and explained it
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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1/2/2013 11:20:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/2/2013 10:23:57 AM, Franz_Reynard wrote:
At 1/2/2013 10:18:04 AM, johnlubba wrote:
How about a finely tuned universe that depends so precisely on factors that are in harmony with each other....


Oh Wait Wait, we already have that. I am convinced.

Unless you can prove that it is possible for thing to achieve an ordered state despite disharmony without manufacture, then this argument is fallacious. It is just as important to prove the existence of an antithesis as it is to prove the facts underlying a thesis to prove its logical validity. Otherwise, it's naught more than theory.

As I said, I am convinced. I am convinced the universe is not working automatically and aimlessly, I am convinced that all the calculations which suggest the unlikely hood of the universe being able to manifest in the way it does, are directed. By God.